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#1 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

The third series of 1-on-1 Marvel Vs. DC battles. Usual rules, no interference between the two combatants and no prep or abnormal equipment unless stated otherwise.

The Battles:

Sentry Vs. Black Adam

War Machine Vs. Steel

Spider-Woman Vs. Black Canary

Daredevil Vs. Nightwing

Abomination Vs. Mongul

Mikhail Rasputin Vs. Hal Jordan

Sasquatch Vs. Parasite

Snowbird Vs. Gorilla Grodd

The Leader (with 2 days prep) Vs. Batman (with 2 days prep)

and the final battle.....

Surtur and his horde Vs. All of Apokolips

There we go. Now, without further ado.....

IT'S SHOWTIME!!!

#2 Posted by Methos (40103 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry Vs. Black Adam - Black Adam

War Machine Vs. Steel - War Machine

Spider-Woman Vs. Black Canary - Black Canary

Daredevil Vs. Nightwing - Nightwing

Abomination Vs. Mongul - Mongul

Mikhail Rasputin Vs. Hal Jordan - Hal Jordan

Sasquatch Vs. Parasite - Parasite

Snowbird Vs. Gorilla Grodd - Snowbird

The Leader (with 2 days prep) Vs. Batman (with 2 days prep) - Batman

and the final battle.....

Surtur and his horde Vs. All of Apokolips

Does all of Apokolips include Darkseid, Granny Goodness and the rest of his generals?

if so then All of Apokolips easily

M

#3 Posted by Garnbit (77 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry

Steel

Spider-Woman

Daredevil

Abomination

Mikhail Rasputin

Parasite

Gorilla Grodd

Batman

All of Apokolips

#4 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Men too easy for DC

Black Adam

War Machine

Black Canary

Nightwing

Mongul

Sasquatch

Batman

All apokolips

#5 Posted by Sparda (15795 posts) - - Show Bio

Surtur=enough power to conquer the Universe. He took down all of Asgard by himself. His army covered Marvel Earth and took em down too (I believe, I can't quite remember). I'm not saying he wins, just that it's not as easy as it appears.

Mikhail Vs. Hal.....I think Mikhail. Matter manipulation FTW.

Spider-Woman Vs. Canary.....Spider-Woman, IMO. She's faster, and those beams are killer.

Leader easily takes Batman. Leader has above possible human capacity intellect. He has an army of robots. In 2 days he would build a nuke and get one of his 30 foot robots to detonate it in Bats's face.

I think DD defeats Nightwing. More experience and his hearing will let him dodge Nightwings attacks. DD has beaten Symbiote Spidey....don't think NW can beat that.

The rest are for DC, IMO.
Post Edited:2007-10-04 18:46:37

#6 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry Vs. Black Adam = Sentry

War Machine Vs. Steel = Steel

Spider-Woman Vs. Black Canary = Spider-Woman

Daredevil Vs. Nightwing = Daredevil

Abomination Vs. Mongul = Mongul

Mikhail Rasputin Vs. Hal Jordan = Mikhail Rasputin

Sasquatch Vs. Parasite = Parasite

Snowbird Vs. Gorilla Grodd = Gorilla Grodd
Post Edited:2007-10-07 10:55:41

#7 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh didn't see the last two.

Leader Vs. Batman = Leader

Surter Vs. Apokalips = Apok

#8 Posted by Lookout (10 posts) - - Show Bio

The Battles:

Sentry Vs. Black Adam SENTRY

War Machine Vs. Steel WAR MACHINE

Spider-Woman Vs. Black Canary BLACK CANARY

Daredevil Vs. Nightwing NIGHTWING

Abomination Vs. Mongul ABOMINATION

Mikhail Rasputin Vs. Hal Jordan HAL JORDAN

Sasquatch Vs. Parasite PARASITE

Snowbird Vs. Gorilla Grodd GORILLA GRODD

The Leader (with 2 days prep) Vs. Batman (with 2 days prep)

BATMAN!!!!

and the final battle.....

Surtur and his horde Vs. All of Apokolips APOKOLIPS

#9 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry Vs. Black Adam - black adam

War Machine Vs. Steel - it depends on what armor they both are using.

Spider-Woman Vs. Black Canary - Spider-Woman

Daredevil Vs. Nightwing - Nightwing

Abomination Vs. Mongul - Mongul

Mikhail Rasputin Vs. Hal Jordan - is it Hal/green lantern, Hal/spectre, or Hal/Parallax?

Sasquatch Vs. Parasite - Parasite

Snowbird Vs. Gorilla Grodd - Snowbird

The Leader (with 2 days prep) Vs. Batman (with 2 days prep) - The Leader

Surtur and his horde Vs. Darkseid and all of Apokolips - Apokolips

#10 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Why Nightwing? How do you guys see him beating Daredevil? His reflex's are nowhere near Daredevil's level.
Post Edited:2007-10-07 07:24:22

#11 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

sentry faster more energy to burn

it really depends one which version of steel btu usally steel probably take itmore durable

if spider woman doesnt get close canary but if she does get close and canary skills are better canary

daredevil

abomination

hal

parasite lol

bird guess

leader

Lol surturs army his army is millionf os miles of soilders besides that marvel stated his body pretty much almost indestructible he took that hit from thor with the energy of thousand suns and came out with otu a scartch.

#12 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry Vs. Black Adam - sentry

War Machine Vs. Steel - war machine

Spider-Woman Vs. Black Canary - spider-woman

Daredevil Vs. Nightwing - daredevil

Abomination Vs. Mongul - mongul

Mikhail Rasputin Vs. Hal Jordan - rasputin

Sasquatch Vs. Parasite - parasite

Snowbird Vs. Gorilla Grodd - snowbird

The Leader (with 2 days prep) Vs. Batman (with 2 days prep) - the leader

Surtur and his horde Vs. Darkseid and all of Apokolips - i'm not sure.

#13 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

King of Kings says:

"Why Nightwing? How do you guys see him beating Daredevil? His reflex's are nowhere near Daredevil's level.
Post Edited:2007-10-07 07:24:22"
I am also including DD's senses. NW couldn't sneak up on him.
#14 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody says:

"King of Kings says:
"Why Nightwing? How do you guys see him beating Daredevil? His reflex's are nowhere near Daredevil's level.
Post Edited:2007-10-07 07:24:22"
I am also including DD's senses. NW couldn't sneak up on him. "

why do you have sasquatch beating parasite?

#15 Posted by The_Martian (36984 posts) - - Show Bio

Apparition says:

"Nobody says:
"King of Kings says:
"Why Nightwing? How do you guys see him beating Daredevil? His reflex's are nowhere near Daredevil's level.
Post Edited:2007-10-07 07:24:22"
I am also including DD's senses. NW couldn't sneak up on him. "
why do you have sasquatch beating parasite?"
Good question. I am not sure.
#16 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

lol

#17 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

His detective and martial arts skills are close to Batman's level, making him one of the greatest crime fighters alive. He is a master of a half dozen martial arts disciplines that include Judo, Jeet Kune Do, Taekwondo, Aikido, Wing Chun, and Escrima. He also possesses vast training in other martial arts such as Hapkido, Jiu-jitsu, Karate, Savate, Kendo, Ninjitsu, and Tai Chi. He was rigorously trained by the Dark Knight in everything from escapology to criminology, fencing, stealth, disguise, and numerous other combat/non-combat disciplines.

Grayson is a prodigious natural athlete, possessing a peak human level of agility/acrobatic skills. He is generally regarded as the greatest human acrobat in the DC universe.

Besides he is the only person on Earth (DC) who can do the quadruple somersault (Can DD do that?) and for his senses is just so easy you do a lot of noise and his radar gets confused

#18 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Garnbit says:

"Abomination "

Lookout says:

" Abomination Vs. Mongul ABOMINATION "

zee crusher says:

"abomination "

lol I'd like to know how you think Abomination takes the win in this one.

#19 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"His detective and martial arts skills are close to Batman's level, making him one of the greatest crime fighters alive. He is a master of a half dozen martial arts disciplines that include Judo, Jeet Kune Do, Taekwondo, Aikido, Wing Chun, and Escrima. He also possesses vast training in other martial arts such as Hapkido, Jiu-jitsu, Karate, Savate, Kendo, Ninjitsu, and Tai Chi. He was rigorously trained by the Dark Knight in everything from escapology to criminology, fencing, stealth, disguise, and numerous other combat/non-combat disciplines. Grayson is a prodigious natural athlete, possessing a peak human level of agility/acrobatic skills. He is generally regarded as the greatest human acrobat in the DC universe. Besides he is the only person on Earth (DC) who can do the quadruple somersault (Can DD do that?) and for his senses is just so easy you do a lot of noise and his radar gets confused"

if only nightwing automatically knew daredevil's weakness of heightened senses. but youre looking at it a little one sided. do you know all of daredevil's abilities? he's about a peak human acrobat, which would mean anything nightwing could do, daredevil could. he is a brilliant martial artist, olympic level weightlifter, and his senses make it so he can almost tell what someone is going to do before they do it.

#20 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm only saying why I picked him and before someone says it (I know someone at least is thinking about it), I didn't pick it because I carry his name

I know the abilities of Daredevil, I know he is a great hand to hand combat, I know he is very agile himself, and I don't think it would be a one side match, actually I think it would be the most dificult match to settle. Actually my previous post was an answer to king of kings

Oh and by the way give the old boy wonder some credit, it isn't so hard to figure out he is blind

#21 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"I'm only saying why I picked him and before someone says it (I know someone at least is thinking about it), I didn't pick it because I carry his name I know the abilities of Daredevil, I know he is a great hand to hand combat, I know he is very agile himself, and I don't think it would be a one side match, actually I think it would be the most dificult match to settle. Actually my previous post was an answer to king of kings Oh and by the way give the old boy wonder some credit, it isn't so hard to figure out he is blind"

lol ok.

#22 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"His detective and martial arts skills are close to Batman's level, making him one of the greatest crime fighters alive. He is a master of a half dozen martial arts disciplines that include Judo, Jeet Kune Do, Taekwondo, Aikido, Wing Chun, and Escrima. He also possesses vast training in other martial arts such as Hapkido, Jiu-jitsu, Karate, Savate, Kendo, Ninjitsu, and Tai Chi. He was rigorously trained by the Dark Knight in everything from escapology to criminology, fencing, stealth, disguise, and numerous other combat/non-combat disciplines.Grayson is a prodigious natural athlete, possessing a peak human level of agility/acrobatic skills. He is generally regarded as the greatest human acrobat in the DC universe.Besides he is the only person on Earth (DC) who can do the quadruple somersault (Can DD do that?) and for his senses is just so easy you do a lot of noise and his radar gets confused"

Dardevil has radar senses, he could here the pattern in Nightwing's breathing, he'd know when and where he was going to strike before Nightwing actually did. How does Nightwing know about Dardevil's senses? How would he know to make alot of noise? Being the greatest acrobat in the DCU is like saying your the smartest kid with Down Syndrome.

#23 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Throwing this out there: sonics would wreck DD.

Moderator
#24 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Throwing this out there: sonics would wreck DD."

Again, how would he know to go with sonics? Its not like people automatically know DD is blind.

#25 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

Sonics are standard weapons for the bat family and they don't only use them on blind people. Besides, the Nightwing guy is right, Dick was trained by "greatest" detective in his universe, that has to count for something. I think he'd be able to figure out that the man is blind.

Moderator
#26 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

King of Kings says:

"Buckshot says:
"Throwing this out there: sonics would wreck DD."
Again, how would he know to go with sonics? Its not like people automatically know DD is blind."

i'm with you. nightwing would have to have used something to try and take out dd's vision to ever find out. and even then he might think that the mask had filters over his eyes instead of dd being blind.

#27 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

he's blind but he can see with his radar sense. so he doesnt even move like he's blind. and the only time i see the bats use their weapons is when someone else has a weapon or super powers. otherwise they try to fight hand to hand. so i dont even think he would use anything in this battle, besides his sticks, and would have to have something luckily give away the fact that daredevil is blind.

#28 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"Sonics are standard weapons for the bat family and they don't *only* use them on blind people. Besides, the Nightwing guy is right, Dick was trained by "greatest" detective in his universe, that has to count for something. I think he'd be able to figure out that the man is blind."

Thats assuming an awful lot. The first time Nightwing fought Clayface he didn't automatically know what weapon to use. Deathstroke wears a mask, did Nightwing think, Hey, I'll use a Sonic Attack on him, No. How would he figure out DD was blind? Nothing he does during a fight would give thee impression that he couldn't see. I know in comics they would have them fight near something metal, DD would duck an attack and Nightwing would strike the metal object and DD would yell and put his hands to his ears. But with out getting completely lucky, I don't see how Dick would know Jack :P

#29 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

There's absolutely nothing that will give him away? The bats rely on things to keep them hidden or psych out their enemies (stealth, misdirection, smoke, flashbangs), things that are usually only effective against people who can see. When DD doesn't fall for any of this, you don't think Nightwing might get a clue? I think you're selling him short. If someone ignores a blinding light, can find him easily in a room full of smoke, or can detect him when by all rights he should be hidden, I think he'd figure something out, or at the very least try something that attacks another major sense. Aside from that though, say they get into it h2h and Nightwing is getting punked for some reason, you think there's no chance that Nightwing will use sonics to distract his enemy and buy himself some time? You're telling me that Nightwing won't try to use the environment to get the drop on his enemy, he won't use gadgets to stay hidden, and if he's getting beaten in a fight, he still won't use any toys to protect himself? I think you are the ones assuming a lot.

Moderator
#30 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

But your setting the fight up for Nightwing, why is he the only one using stealth? Why does he have the drop on DD? Nightwing isn't Batman, he may utilize gadgets but from what I've seen he's more traditional in his fighting.

Why is Nightwing still on his feet cycling through every gadget he has? If he went for a smoke grenade it would have no affect on DD and he'd catch Nightwing off guard and put him down, same with a flash grenade. He's not just gonna stand still while Dick goes threw his inventory until he finds or figures out what to use.

I never said he wouldn't use sonics AT SOME POINT, I'm saying he gets taking out before he figures it out.

#31 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not setting up the fight for Nightwing. If DD is being stealthy nothing is different so why mention it? If Nightwing is being stealthy yet DD can still find him, then that's something that gives him away, which goes back to what I was saying, and that's why I brought it up. You said nothing gives DD away and I provided an example to the contrary. I didn't say Nightwing would get the drop on DD, in fact, I was thinking the opposite. I was saying he would try to and fail, once again giving Nightwing a clue as to what his deal is. Just because he doesn't use gadgets as much doesn't mean he doesn't use them at all. What exactly happens when Nightwing sees DD ignore flashbangs or smoke? Will he stand there and let DD keep coming and then engage him h2h or either switch to another gadget or get some distance to figure out what's going on? I think one of the second two. And just because his first attempts don't work doesn't mean he'll automatically lose. I don't believe DD is so much faster than Nightwing that he won't be able to react. I also don't believe DD would dominate him in h2h but I haven't even gotten there yet.

Moderator
#32 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't mean nothing gave DD away as in his position, I meant give him away as being blind. So what exactly does Nightwing do when he throws a smoke grenade and the surrounding area is covered? DD comes flying threw the smoke, would Nightwing expect that? I gotta think no and thus he would be caught of balance. Just cause your trained by the best, doesn't automatically make you the second best. Nightwings been trained by some impressive people, but how does that translate into a different universe?

DD (according to this sight. Is extremely strong and can lift 400 plus pounds.) Now I seriously doubt Nightwing is benching more then 250, but I could be wrong. If thats the case DD would easily over power Nightwing in a hand to hand confrontation.

With DD's radar sense he would know the area better then Nightwing would and I believe that would have to be a major advantage. You keep saying Nightwing would use sonic attacks to play on DD's weakness, but would DD do the same? Like keeping in the shadows, taking out any an all light sources? He would try and take away Nightwings vision right off the bat.

#33 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm talking about giving away his blindness (and by extension his reliance on other senses, primarily hearing). Him ignoring blinding light gives it away. Ignoring smoke gives it away. Being able to find someone who's very good at hiding gives it away. Things like that.

Nightwing wouldn't expect it but it doesn't mean he can't adapt to the situation. What about him makes you think he wouldn't be able to react to someone flying at him? Do you realize how often the bats try one tactic only to find out it was ineffective? They've learned to not store all their hopes in one ploy and be ready if the whole situation turns around.

I haven't bothered really getting into fighting ability/physical prowess because I don't care that much, but Nightwing fights/has fought people who are peak human in strength and beyond, and are also skilled fighters. He may or may not win a straight fight, but with the stuff at his disposal, it's not a straight fight. It would only take one sonic to end the fight, that's my point.

And DD employing a "blinding" tactic would only give Nightwing further reason to switch to sonics over a stealth approach. He also has night vision equipment.

Moderator
#34 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

i still think that nighting wouldnt use his tools until he started losing the fight. i dont read nightwing regularly but everyhthing i've seen has him fighting first and only using his utilities when the other person has powers or has a gun or some other long distance weapon. and if he waits until he starts losing there's a good chance he wouldnt have the time to use one.

#35 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Well thats all I got. I really don't care enough about either one to continue. As always you make some great points, but they ALL hinge on Nightwing knowing that DD is blind. I dont know but I dont remember Nightwing just continuing to use smoke, flash, sonic, glue, water, pumpkin, rabbit, or whatever gadget until he finds the right one, but maybe I missed something.

#36 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Post Deleted.

#37 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

First of all, it doesn't "hinge on Nightwing knowing DD is blind." That is unless you think Nightwing only uses sonics on blind people. Second, I've provided several reasons why, even assuming he wouldn't use one of his common weapons unless his enemy was blind, he would know DD was blind or at least relied on something other than sight. Third, I never said Nightwing would be cycling through all his gadgets. What about this seems impossible: Nightwing attacks his eyes (flashbang) and it fails so he goes for his ears (sonics), or he just starts with sonics. And for a final thought, what if Nightwing rarely ever used his sonics, why would that mean he couldn't win this theoretical fight? Cyclops rarely uses a huge blast, but does that stop anyone from stating that tactic in a fight? Same goes for the Human Torch and a nova blast, Scarlet Witch and "no more whateverthehell", Thor and throwing people into dimensions/going FTL, Black Bolt and a full scream, Spider-Man using anywhere near all his strength, speedsters and speedblitzes, heroes killing their enemies, etc, etc, etc.

Moderator
#38 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow this turned out to be a Nightwing vs Daredevil forum

Well first of all look at this

http://www.dccomics.com/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/nightwing&p=2

Read in "Powers and weapons" his ability to "read people"

And in comics he has made it clear he kind of uses it, second you are right king of kings the fact that he was trained by batman doesn't automatically make you second best, but still he has proven to be quite good (I won't enter in if he is second best of DC because I'm not sure).

Later he already has experience against people with enchanced senses (Deathstroke)

The comment about turning all lights off well guess what more advantage for Dick (and any other batfamily member) they are trained to use the shadows to their advantages

I'm not so sure how much is DD agile (I only know he is a lot lol) but noone can really deny Dick is really agile himself especially because since he was a little boy was trained by the best acrobats in the world.

He has top human agility just as DD so speed won't solve this, I think only hand on hand combat and how smart each one battles will solve this fight (ohn and who is the writer lol)

#39 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

See, its ALL about the gadgets and figuring out DD is blind. This isn't Batman, its Nightwing. Its not, what Buckshot would do if he were Nightwing, its what would Nightwing would do based on his character. Does Nightwing start out a fight against someone he knows nothing about by first going for the eyes? Why is Nightwing the aggressor and DD is just the reactor? DD takes out the lights, is Nightwing going to think, hey this guys is blind, or is he gonna think, DD can see in the dark?

I don't know who Nightwing has used sonics on, can you tell me?

Is DD a moron? How many times is he just gonna stand there looking dumb while Nightwing cycles threw his gadgets before he trys to take the belt out of thee equation?

#40 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"Wow this turned out to be a Nightwing vs Daredevil forumWell first of all look at thishttp://www.dccomics.com/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/nightwing&p=2Read in "Powers and weapons" his ability to "read people"And in comics he has made it clear he kind of uses it, second you are right king of kings the fact that he was trained by batman doesn't automatically make you second best, but still he has proven to be quite good (I won't enter in if he is second best of DC because I'm not sure).Later he already has experience against people with enchanced senses (Deathstroke)The comment about turning all lights off well guess what more advantage for Dick (and any other batfamily member) they are trained to use the shadows to their advantagesI'm not so sure how much is DD agile (I only know he is a lot lol) but noone can really deny Dick is really agile himself especially because since he was a little boy was trained by the best acrobats in the world.He has top human agility just as DD so speed won't solve this, I think only hand on hand combat and how smart each one battles will solve this fight (ohn and who is the writer lol)"

DD is also able to read people.


Post" />http://www.comicvine.com/daredevil/24694/
Post
Edited:2007-10-07 23:02:35

#41 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

King of Kings says:

"Nightwingprodigalson says:
"Wow this turned out to be a Nightwing vs Daredevil forumWell first of all look at thishttp://www.dccomics.com/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/nightwing&p=2Read in "Powers and weapons" his ability to "read people"And in comics he has made it clear he kind of uses it, second you are right king of kings the fact that he was trained by batman doesn't automatically make you second best, but still he has proven to be quite good (I won't enter in if he is second best of DC because I'm not sure).Later he already has experience against people with enchanced senses (Deathstroke)The comment about turning all lights off well guess what more advantage for Dick (and any other batfamily member) they are trained to use the shadows to their advantagesI'm not so sure how much is DD agile (I only know he is a lot lol) but noone can really deny Dick is really agile himself especially because since he was a little boy was trained by the best acrobats in the world.He has top human agility just as DD so speed won't solve this, I think only hand on hand combat and how smart each one battles will solve this fight (ohn and who is the writer lol)"

DD is also ably to read people.

" />http://www.comicvine.com/daredevil/24694/"

What I meant was to give a reason for NW to realize DD is blind without saying something like "he was trained by batman so he can solve any mistery"

#42 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"Wow this turned out to be a Nightwing vs Daredevil forum Well first of all look at this http://www.dccomics.com/heroes_and_villains/?hv=origin_stories/nightwing&p=2 Read in "Powers and weapons" his ability to "read people" And in comics he has made it clear he kind of uses it, second you are right king of kings the fact that he was trained by batman doesn't automatically make you second best, but still he has proven to be quite good (I won't enter in if he is second best of DC because I'm not sure). Later he already has experience against people with enchanced senses (Deathstroke) The comment about turning all lights off well guess what more advantage for Dick (and any other batfamily member) they are trained to use the shadows to their advantages I'm not so sure how much is DD agile (I only know he is a lot lol) but noone can really deny Dick is really agile himself especially because since he was a little boy was trained by the best acrobats in the world. He has top human agility just as DD so speed won't solve this, I think only hand on hand combat and how smart each one battles will solve this fight (ohn and who is the writer lol)"

nightwing can read people, daredevil can read people

nightwing's a great fighter, daredevil's a great fighter

nightwing has experience getting his butt kicked by deathstroke... great :)

turning off the lights... nightwing is trained to use the shadows... how does that effect daredevil at all?

nightwing is a great acrobat, daredevil is a great acrobat.

nightwing's fairly strong while daredevil is like olympic body builder strong.

the only thing i see in nightwing's favor would be his utility belt and i still dont see why he would use that until he started getting beaten in the fight, which might be too late.

#43 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

For the Deathstroke thing "You learn much more of the defeat than from the victory" sorry if it isn't well translated

The fact of the shadows was mentioned by me because it was said that if DD turned out the lights DD could defeat him using it to stealth for nightwing

And for the thing of the strength NW possesses the peak athletic strength and endurance of a man who regularly engages in intensive physical exercise

#44 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

King of Kings says:

"See, its ALL about the gadgets and figuring out DD is blind. This isn't Batman, its Nightwing. Its not, what Buckshot would do if he were Nightwing, its what would Nightwing would do based on his character. Does Nightwing start out a fight against someone he knows nothing about by first going for the eyes? Why is Nightwing the aggressor and DD is just the reactor? DD takes out the lights, is Nightwing going to think, hey this guys is blind, or is he gonna think, DD can see in the dark?I don't know who Nightwing has used sonics on, can you tell me?Is DD a moron? How many times is he just gonna stand there looking dumb while Nightwing cycles threw his gadgets before he trys to take the belt out of thee equation?"

Look at my last point again if you want to talk about characters being in character in vs battles.

Nightwing doesn't start fights the same way every time. Why couldn't he start with whatever he feels like? And the lights just go back to what I've already said. Lights go out and either response you've mentioned could lead back to sonics. If he believes DD is blind and doesn't need his eyes from that tactic, he might use sonics, ending it then. If he believes DD can see in the dark he may go for a flashbang first and switch to sonics after that fails. And as mentioned, Nightwing has night vision (and he's also trained {meaning he's fought real badguys with guns and stuff} blindfolded) so darkness isn't an automatic win anyway.

I don't know who The Doctor has turned into a cupcake, can you tell me?

I can't recall a specific instance but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. But if you really want to use that to say that Nightwing doesn't have sonics (despite it being standard equipment for members of the batfamily) fine. He also has tranqs that can be shot in swarms (spread out to get a large area but not enough to be dodged) which I can tell you for sure he's use on dogs (he doesn't hurt animals), he has gas pellets and gas batarangs, which I've seen him use on thugs, and magnesium flares that I've seen him use to burn through steel. These can be used just as effectively as (the gas pellets maybe even moreso than) sonics.

And you're back to "cycling through gadgets again", something I've already addressed.

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#45 Posted by Apparition (11349 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"For the Deathstroke thing "You learn much more of the defeat than from the victory" sorry if it isn't well translated The fact of the shadows was mentioned by me because it was said that if DD turned out the lights DD could defeat him using it to stealth for nightwing And for the thing of the strength NW possesses the peak athletic strength and endurance of a man who regularly engages in intensive physical exercise"

no that's a perfect translation. and nightwing has the strength and endurance of a man of his height and weight who engages in intensive physical exercise. i think that's the way that goes. but not peak strength or nearly as much as daredevil does. i think daredevil would eventually win without the utility belt but the belt gives nightwing a good chance.

#46 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"King of Kings says:
"See, its ALL about the gadgets and figuring out DD is blind. This isn't Batman, its Nightwing. Its not, what Buckshot would do if he were Nightwing, its what would Nightwing would do based on his character. Does Nightwing start out a fight against someone he knows nothing about by first going for the eyes? Why is Nightwing the aggressor and DD is just the reactor? DD takes out the lights, is Nightwing going to think, hey this guys is blind, or is he gonna think, DD can see in the dark?I don't know who Nightwing has used sonics on, can you tell me?Is DD a moron? How many times is he just gonna stand there looking dumb while Nightwing cycles threw his gadgets before he trys to take the belt out of thee equation?"

Look at my last point again if you want to talk about characters being in character in vs battles.

Nightwing doesn't start fights the same way every time. Why couldn't he start with whatever he feels like? And the lights just go back to what I've already said. Lights go out and either response you've mentioned could lead back to sonics. If he believes DD is blind and doesn't need his eyes from that tactic, he might use sonics, ending it then. If he believes DD can see in the dark he may go for a flashbang first and switch to sonics after that fails. And as mentioned, Nightwing has night vision (and he's also trained {meaning he's fought real badguys with guns and stuff} blindfolded) so darkness isn't an automatic win anyway.

I don't know who The Doctor has turned into a cupcake, can you tell me?

I can't recall a specific instance but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. But if you really want to use that to say that Nightwing doesn't have sonics (despite it being standard equipment for members of the batfamily) fine. He also has tranqs that can be shot in swarms (spread out to get a large area but not enough to be dodged) which I can tell you for sure he's use on dogs (he doesn't hurt animals), he has gas pellets and gas batarangs, which I've seen him use on thugs, and magnesium flares that I've seen him use to burn through steel. These can be used just as effectively as (the gas pellets maybe even moreso than) sonics.

And you're back to "cycling through gadgets again", something I've already addressed. "

You already addressed gadgets? You keep using em, thats it, you say he uses this gadget and when it doesn't work he uses this one, still never addressing my point as to why he has all this time to use whatever.

Not sure what your Doctor comment means? I was asking a legitimate question as to who Nightwing used a sonic attack on and why? What led him to use a sonic attack instead of (insert here)

DD has also fought real bad guys so what? Are you saying Nightwing is as capable of fighting blind as DD? I seriously doubt that.

So basically all your saying is Nightwing uses every single gadget he has until one of them puts DD down, even though thats not how he fights. Okay, Nightwing wins.

#47 Posted by Nighthunter (28582 posts) - - Show Bio

well I think that oficially we should stop this thing because we aren't getting anywhere and we are just taking the forum far from what it was supposed to be

#48 Posted by Jean_Luc_LeBeau (84704 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing wins.

#49 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

King of Kings says:

"You already addressed gadgets? You keep using em, thats it, you say he uses this gadget and when it doesn't work he uses this one, still never addressing my point as to why he has all this time to use whatever."

I already addressed the notion of him "cycling through all his gadgets". Switching from a visual assault to an aural one is not cycling through all his gadgets. That's two gadgets. Exaggerating what I'm saying doesn't actually change it. Starting with sonics is not cycling through all his gadgets either. It won't take him long to switch to another weapon, and it would take even less time if he starts with it. Additionally, Nightwing isn't going to be stationary while he does it. He'll be bouncing all over the place, not an easy target.

King of Kings says:

"Not sure what your Doctor comment means? I was asking a legitimate question as to who Nightwing used a sonic attack on and why? What led him to use a sonic attack instead of (insert here)"

The Doctor comment was to show you exactly what the sentence following it said. I can't recall a specific instance. Thought that was clear as day.

King of Kings says:

"DD has also fought *real bad guys* so what? Are you saying Nightwing is as capable of fighting blind as DD? I seriously doubt that."

I don't recall saying he fights as well in the dark at all. However, he has jumped roof tops, patrolled the city and fought guys with guns on the tops of moving trains while blindfolded before. He beat them handily and even saved Robin's life (before jumping onto other moving trains). You were talking about DD taking out the lights and I was providing a reason why that won't automatically give him the win.

King of Kings says:

"So basically all your saying is Nightwing uses every single gadget he has until one of them puts DD down, even though thats not how he fights. Okay, Nightwing wins."

Exaggeration again. He's not using "every single gadget he has until one of them puts DD down". And if you're referring to me talking about gas weapons and magnesium flares, how is it not how he fights if he's used it in combat before?

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#50 Posted by acewasp23 (6087 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwingprodigalson says:

"well I think that oficially we should stop this thing because we aren't getting anywhere and we are just taking the forum far from what it was supposed to be"

you ever read some of the other marvel vs DC battle threads? there is a big debate things get a bit heated then they all work out in the end.