The return of the return of Marvel Vs. DC! READ FIRST POST

One Marvel Character against one DC character at a time. Here are the rounds:

Round 1:

Thor (Classic) Vs. Superman

Round 2:

Current Hulk Vs. Lobo

Round 3:

Batman Vs. Punisher

Round 4:

Sentry Vs. Martian Manhunter

Round 5:

Spider-Man Vs. Deathstroke

Round 6:

Elektra Vs. Lady Shiva

Round 7:

Black Cat Vs. Batgirl

Round 8:

Dr. Doom Vs. Lex Luthor (Both have one week prep time)

Round 9:

Dr. Strange Vs. Darkseid

So, no prep (unless stated otherwise), and no interference between the two characters. Please state reasons. GO!!!!!

It doesn't matter. Donnie has it right.

I think Hulk could take out Lobo......maybe. It'd be really close.

Deathstroke (apparently) can move faster than Flash over short distances. He also has precognative ability, so he basically has spider-sense.

Yeah, I thought a bit. Anyway here's mine:

1: Thor winner 2: Hulk winner 3: Batman 4: MM 5: IDK 6: Shiva 7: BC (Her luck thing will help) 8: Doom 9: Strange (He took freakin LT)

Why are some people putting Hulk above Lobo? Lobo wins if for no other reason than that he can't lose. He's not going to die (he can heal from his blood, fight headless, and survive even worse damage, and even past that, he's unable to die because heaven and hell won't allow it), and it's not like Hulk can even get a KO for a win. So why Hulk? Is it racism? Do you just not like white people?

He lost the ability to make clones from his blood, not heal himself from it. How would you defeat Lobo even once? He has durability and strength to go head to head with Superman, speed to keep up with him (fighting, not flying) and even surprise him sometimes and fast enough healing that any damage Hulk is delivering is healed in seconds. If he can't stop Lobo from fighting, even for a few minutes, he hasn't defeated him.

Who says Lobo doesn't just kill him before anything else? What does Lobo not being Superman have to do with anything? His physical attributes are at levels that he can fight him evenly, levels that are very far above Hulk's initially. And Hulk being able to do damage (though he won't be able to until he gets MUCH stronger, giving Lobo plenty of time to do damage of his own) doesn't matter if Lobo can't die.

To clear up further, no toys unless stated otherwise. Well, Bats and Punisher have whatever they carry normally. Also, I thought Lobo's bike was the reason he moved so fast. If he can move super-fast normally, he wins.

Hulk doesn't have super-speed, but yeah. Also, that pic was hilarious. But he has none of that.

I dont know but I've seen Hulk have holes burned in him, his skin flayed off and many many other things that should have killed him but he just regenerates. I dont see Lobo as really being able to put Hulk down permanently either.

The same has happened to Lobo, but Hulk's never healed almost instantly, perfectly ready to fight, from a pool of his own blood (the closest he comes to it that I know is in Hulk: The End when like 70% of his body is eaten by bugs, but even then, he has a lot more body left to heal from, and it still takes hours) or continued fighting without limbs or a head. Lobo can take MUCH more damage and keep going than Hulk.

You might be right but since the late 90s, I'd say, anything that should kill the Hulk, he's just regenerated from. I haven't seen him come back from a single cell but I dont see Lobo doing that much damage to him. Sparda said no weapons, so they're basically going to be hand to hand and I think that anything that Lobo can dish out, Hulk can come right back from. That one where he was flayed was against the U-Foes and most of his skin and muscle was stripped right off of his skeleton but he kept going and healed fairly quickly after that.

Lobo should have his hook and chain because it's standard gear, but whatever. Even without weapons I think he wins. With strength near Superman's from the start of the fight and Hulk nowhere near that strong, I think Lobo could rip Hulk apart, maybe take off his head, before things get too heavy. And say they can't really hurt each other and they're just pounding on one another, who tires first? It won't be Lobo.

How long does it take Hulk to reach those power levels? He seems to quickly match whoever he's fighting. It may not be a slow progression but a massive jump. I dont want to argue for Hulk because his rage is ludicrous. He ends up strong enough to rip wholes in the universe. Maybe he rips one and stuffs Lobo in it. The fact that Lobo is so much stronger makes the petulant Hulk's strength increase exponentially. I just wouldn't count him out in a slugfest, even if you give Lobo his hook and chain.

He quickly matches whoever he's fighting because he's already near the top of Marvel's strength list and there aren't many stronger than him so it's not like he has far to go. You can't expect that he'd reach Lobo that fast (and yes I've seen him Superman and I think that's crap). And even if he approaches it quickly, he's not going to be that strong right away, and definitely not before Lobo can throw some punches or attempt to rip him apart. What I said is still valid. "With strength near Superman's from the start of the fight and Hulk nowhere near that strong, I think Lobo could rip Hulk apart, maybe take off his head, before things get too heavy. And say they can't really hurt each other and they're just pounding on one another, who tires first? It won't be Lobo." It's very simple on my end. One strong character can die, and the other, stronger (at least initially) character can't. Hulk can't kill Lobo, but Lobo can, even if it will take forever (I don't think it will) and there's only a tiny chance (and there's more than a tiny chance) of it happening, kill Hulk.

Hey just because we dont see Marvel characters pushing planets doesn't mean that they arent strong. Superman is stronger than Hulk (definitely initially) but how much stronger than Juggernaut is he? Pushing a planet is more of a judge of thrust you can put into your flight (and the integrity of that planet youre pushing) then it is a judge of your strength. Thor lifts the tail of the midgard serpent, who's supposed to be as heavy as the planet so I dont think he's actually limited to 100 tons and Juggernaut's strength is supposed to be limitless but Hulk matches both of them almost instantly. So I don't know just how much stronger than the Marvel heavyweights the DC heavyweights are.

You definitely have a strong argument though because Lobo is way up there in strength and Hulk's major failing in this fight is his weak durability. Lobo should be able to tear him apart but I've seen Hulk heal from damage that should have easily killed him. I've never seen anyone take his arm off or his head off and losing his head would probably kill him, but I dont know that Lobo can do it that quickly and though Lobo goes toe to toe with Superman, Superman is notorious for pulling punches so even though Lobo cant die Hulk could very easily tear him apart too.

That thrust vs strength thing is I think the first thing we ever talked about. I don't remember what I said, but I'm pretty sure it was good. (:p) Anyway, the planet thing isn't the only strength feat. There are others that are pure strength and can't really be questioned. Like this:

That's All Star, so I'm not saying normal Superman is lifting 200 quintillion tons (with one hand btw, and then breaking the machine), but he can do (at least) a third of that, as is mentioned on the page. There are others, but I think that's good.

About Thor and the serpent, I don't know if it was actually as heavy as a planet. If there's going to be hyperbole anywhere, it's in a description of a mythical monster. That's no reason for me to dismiss it offhand though. Anyway, the tail is not the whole thing, so it's not like he's lifting a planet. That's not to lower the feat, just pointing out. And the class 100 mark is open ended, so because he's class 100 doesn't mean 100 is his limit. I don't know about Hulk matching him instantly though. When has Thor ever come to him right after he turned into the Hulk? It's usually after others have fought him, or he's been rampaging for a while and has had time to build up his strength. Also, Thor almost always fights him hand to hand to give him a fair go, so would it be unreasonable to think he's not going all out? He's already holding back by fighting him on his terms, so why couldn't he be holding back more? Superman isn't the only one who does it.

I'm not sure about Juggs, but I don't know about "limitless" strength. His powers centers around his indestructibility and immovability/unstoppability (are those real words?). He's immensely strong, but I don't think his strength is limitless.

Anyway, I think Lobo can rip him up plenty fast, and even if he failed to, the point remains, he can't die.

"Quintillion" is my new favorite word/number.

(The thrust thing was the first thing we talked about, or very close to it and what you said was great since it backed up what I was saying)

I cant get past the can't die argument and that picture is excellent evidence. I cant remember seeing the Marvel heavyweights tested so it is a little one sided, though I doubt Marvel would have anyone holding up 200 quintillion tons with one hand (or even a third of that).

The serpent's weight certainly may be hyperbole. But it must be exceedingly heavy so I can imagine the tail being in at least the tens to hundreds of thousand tons category. So even lifting that shows that Marvel's powerhouses are a little more powerful then they are usually given credit for.

I can't remember any time where Thor and Hulk fight right after Hulk changes though who knows how angry he was before Thor got there and what his strength level was at that point? Who knows how much Thor holds back against Hulk or how much Superman holds back against Lobo? It's impossible to say. Did we say what level Hulk would be at for this fight or is it just assumed that he transforms just before the fight?

But like I said, I can't get past that can't die argument. But I'm still not sure Hulk would die either.

Check out him healing so fast he heals over his own hand.

Healing from a broken neck which should have killed him.

and what I mentioned earlier, when he healed from being flayed.

I dont even like Hulk but I see this fight as more of a stalemate. However if anyone wins, I guess I would tip the scale slightly in Lobo's favor.

I remember that what I said (thrust/strength, not lobo/hulk) had something to do with (among other things) it all just being force. Whether the power to lift whatever it is comes from flight or from Superman's biceps, it's still force that he can use against someone else. He can fly into someone as easily as punch them, so the power to move a planet, moon, whatever, is still there. That alone doesn't say that his punch packs the same power though, so you're right, we can't say that Lobo withstood planet-moving strength since he's getting hit with punches, not being flown at, the way the planet was moved. But, like the picture I posted shows, he does have that kind of power in his punches (backing up the idea that the planet thing is being presented as a strength feat as opposed to a flight/durability feat), so Lobo standing up to it repeatedly (even if Superman's not going all out) is more than anything Hulk's taken.

Nothing in those images is anything Lobo hasn't been able to do. And Hulk being able to survive from a broken neck doesn't mean he'd survive having his head (or major organs) removed. In fact, the broken neck presents another way for Lobo to win. Break his neck (easier than taking it off with him still alive) or do some other kind of major damage, and while he's out or healing, take him apart. I don't see why this fight would drag on since Lobo starts out, and will be for a while, enormously stronger, but if it did drag out, Lobo could continue to fight for eternity and Hulk would tire out in days, weeks at most.

Unrelated: It's funny, but the second two images are things I've seen Midnighter do. He's healed from a broken neck (said it was nothing compared to his morning workout) and been burned by the avatar of the sun as badly as Hulk was.

If Mr. Immortal had the ability to kill Wolverine, then that's what it would mean. It's not just because Lobo can't die, it's because Lobo can't die and is capable of killing Hulk. You could also consider it a win for Wolverine if he could contain or subdue Mr. Immortal, but is Hulk the kind of guy who would just subdue someone? No, he's not. If both are fully intent on killing the other (that's an in character thing, not a forced, to the death forum battle thing) then the win should be determined by who can kill the other. What else would you consider a win between these two? First knock out? Lobo would win that since he starts out strong enough to knock out Hulk before he gets strong enough that that kind of attack would be ineffective. First to incapacitate the other for a set amount of time? Lobo heals almost instantly and keeps fighting in worse condition, so while Hulk wouldn't stay incapacitated, he'd be down from the same kind of thing (say they snapped each others necks) that Lobo would walk away from.

hulk in his current state is too much for anyone, they are writing him basically invincible, marvel has a point to prove with him and nothing is gonna stop him. heroes that should have caused him trouble are getting smashed in a matter of minutes if not seconds, true lobo eventually has to win, he's immortal.... hell if thats the case so would deadpool based on the same grounds, but in this fight lobo is gonna get his ass handed to him until he stops trying or the hulk gets sick of it. people may love or hate the hulk but you must admit... right now he's the most dangerous thing out there

Hulk, in his current state, is being made out to be stronger, and better than ever before, but I still haven't seen anything that puts him (at the start of the fight) anywhere near Superman, or the people he fights, like Lobo. Lobo is still much stronger than him until he angers up some more, and until then, he's capable of tearing him apart with his bear hands, breaking his bones, eviscerating him, and finding other ways to beat him. And then, if for some reason Lobo doesn't do that and lets Hulk get angrier, when Hulk gets strong/tough enough that Lobo can't do that to him, he still can't kill Lobo, and eventually, after a few days or weeks fighting all out, Hulk will be worn out and Lobo won't.