The Punisher VS Green Arrow

• Standard pre-Secret Wars Punisher.
• Current CW Green Arrow.
• Standard gear.
• Morals off. (Both of them are not hesitant to kill the other, but they won't hurt innocent bystanders)
• Win by any means necessary.

Fight takes place in here:

They start visible, begin on opposite ends.

Ollie.

Callouts:

Could go either way.

In before "Punisher stomps Arrowverse" and "Comics are always better then Live action" bullshit..................

I agree it could go either way. Ollie would beat Frank in hand to hand though.

Frank.

Oh dear...

Hahah...

Flip a coin and that will be your winner

Frank should take it every single time. In an entertaining fight.

@keenko: Why?

Frank stomps. Classic Ollie vvould vvin though.

@allstarsuperman: I think the morals being off is what really throws this in Punisher's favor. Statwise, Ollie holds no overwhelming advantage. Anywhere GA has an advantage, it's very minimal compared to Frank's large advantages of pain tolerance and accuracy. I'm down with debating it more in depth if you'd like.

Ollie aims better with his weapon of choice. but guns are better than bows on most occassions

punisher

@keenko: NickZ knows Arrow better then I do, but Ollies pain tolerance is up there, he can stabbed by Ras and fell hundreds of feet and didn't die, he's been thrown around my Mirakuru Slade and other goons, he's fought on while being poisoned and more. I don't think Punisher holds a big advantage in that area. Sure people like the Daken fight, but so what, Punisher died, I don't really understand why people use that feat.

Because he was already seriously injured when Daken ambushed him and he still managed to put up a great fight against him. How can you not understand why people use that as a feat of pain tolerance and badassery?

Frank in a decent fight. As Keenko said above, Frank is more than capable of taking whatever Oliver dishes out, and has much better accuracy as well, even in spite of Oliver's very good marksmanship.

Frank wins this

Ollie is more skilled, and has better gear. Frank is the better shooter by a large margin though. You've kind of screwed Arrow kind of hard for him to use his explosive arrows indoors when he can't hurt civilians.

I'll give it to Castle.

Ollie wins after a great fight.

I don't get why everyone is saying Oliver is more accurate or skilled with his weapon. He's done nothing compared to frank shooting iron man in the eyes, shooting spider-man on multiple occasions, shooting wolverine when he's trying to dodge bullets, shooting cables from a distance with a pistol, etc.. All the feats I referenced for Frank are perfectly consistent. People can talk about Oliver fighting Flash but Barry never won a single fight on his own or without context in season one IIRC aside from his appearance in arrow where he soloed the league, and its not like Frank hasn't fought faster such as burnout. As for Franks showing against Daken this was back when Daken was impressive, basically the same daken that demolished wolverine and deadpool, toyed around with spider-man, etc.. Frank took a serious beating from Daken before he was decapitated, and the reality is Oliver never endured such pain. His beating from deathstroke (which never broke any bones), taking hits from mirakuru users, getting shot by deadshots bullet, etc.. none of that compares to what Frank went through against Daken, and it really doesn't matter if Frank died because Daken at his peak would massacre Oliver just as badly as he did deadpool. People can talk about Olivers fight with Solomon Grundy but Grundy is pathetic compared to the Russian--who was manhandling spider-man---and Frank killed him using sheer strategy alone. Even in hand to hand Oliver has never fought someone as capable as Alyosha who stomped rhino IIRC someone far stronger than anyone Oliver has fought. Frank did hold his own against Alyoha.

Frank wins and I honestly don't think its that close with gear involved (I'm sure I will get crap for saying it but its how I feel). Its not because Oliver is live action, Frank just faces higher threats in his universe. You can complain how the marvel universe has decades of continuity for Frank to fall back on all you want but that's just the reality of the situation. Hand to hand would be close and I'm willing to say Oliver is more skilled (But I think Frank makes up for it with his dirty fighting and toughness [not that Oliver isn't tough he just hasn't endured the same beatings as Frank]) but I don't see Oliver winning against a morals off punisher. Oliver is very impressive and there are comic characters he can beat but Frank just isn't one of them.

EDIT: Again I want to stress nothing I said is meant to put Oliver down. He's very impressive, I just think Frank is better due to taking on tougher threats.

@allstarsuperman: Ollie definitely isn't unimpressive in the pain tolerance/durability category, I agree but even discounting the Daken feat, there's a lot to draw from. Frank has survived and walked off close range grenades, getting shot, falling from buildings, getting run over, get punched by multi tonners, getting electrocuted, torture, escaping from a group of gang bangers after having major surgery, etc.

But to fall a bit on what Jashro said;

Hand to hand would be close and I'm willing to say Oliver is more skilled (But I think Frank makes up for it with his dirty fighting and toughness [not that Oliver isn't tough he just hasn't endured the same beatings as Frank]) but I don't see Oliver winning against a morals off punisher. Oliver is very impressive and there are comic characters he can beat but Frank just isn't one of them.

I think this fight would be fairer if Oliver was morals off but Punisher was aware of who Ollie is. Allowing Frank to go for lethal shots and do his full ruthless fighting, it gives him this sheer unpredictability advantage. Frank has bitten off Deadpool's nose, nearly ripped a dude's arm off, broke through all the way through a guy's teeth into his mouth with a single punch, etc.

Isn't Punisher kind of always morals off? So wouldn't this actually help Ollie more, since he can aim for kill shots?

Classic GA would win, this version tho would not

Frank shoots him.

Although Green Arrow might be faster, arrows are slower than bullets so this speed disadvantage shouldn't hinder Frank too much. Punisher is the better aim and in a station with civilians this is going to be an especially useful edge, one which I think will win him the majority, along with his pain tolerance which should allow him to take a fair few arrows without going down.

@the_real_seaman: Nah. Frank holds back a lot on heroes.

@keenko: true

@the_real_seaman: Punisher is pretty against killing heroes, if he doesn't have rubber bullets or tranqs on him then he most likely won't aim for lethal areas.

@thedandyman: no I agree, but Ollie is kind of the same way. This would be interesting to see.

Frank head shots him with his first shot.

@the_real_seaman: Ah, I was too slow on the draw. Keenko got to ya first.

@thedandyman: no problem

Probably for the same reason why people use Ollie being stabbed by Ras and falling off a mountain as a feat...he was not saved by his durability...he was saved by plot.

Ollie

@shawnbaby: he willed himself back to health......I think that's a tad better then Punisher just dying.

Kinda skipping over the part where Maseo had to haul Oliver's body off the mountain and into the care of his wife.

Both would have been dead without outside intervention. Neither are actually dead now.

Well yeah he would have died from exposure and hunger eventually if he was just left there. But the point is that Ollie had his throat shut by Ra's al Ghul, was stabbed through the stomach, and then kicked off a mountain, yet he did not die. Maseo brought him some place warm and Tatsu fed him penicillin tea; he made a full recovery within three days. Why does the fact that he needed his body taken to shelter make the fact that he survived this any less insane?

Because in order for it to be relevant to the battle at hand...Oliver would have had to been able to walk away from that under his own power.

@shawnbaby: yo. How did punisher become normal again after Frankencastle?

His body was healed by the Bloodstone. Also made him young again.

I agree with that, but then why was Punisher's fight with Daken anything impressive? He was out of it after the first slashes, it just took awhile for him to actually fall.

Frank spanks

What makes Frank's feat more impressive was that, even though he was severely wounded, he continued to fight on. It's a better showing of actual endurance, pain tolerance, and durability.

I can scan-bomb or make an essay to address the most ridiculous comments... but I have neither the willingness nor commitment to drag this into a tedious and laborious debate.

So... Frank headshots him with his first shot, I guess.