Punisher is one of my favorites of all time. But he loses here. Don't give Batman Prep, and Punisher wins. No matter what punisher would prep, Batman would do better. And bloodlusted Batman? With Prep? WHY?!?
Bro Batman does not have Prep. He losses prep at the beggining of the Match as the OP said.
Punisher is one of my favorites of all time. But he loses here. Don't give Batman Prep, and Punisher wins. No matter what punisher would prep, Batman would do better. And bloodlusted Batman? With Prep? WHY?!?
Bro Batman does not have Prep. He losses prep at the beggining of the Match as the OP said.
He loses half of his bat cave, not his prep.
"Sigh" If ya read the post instead of skimmimg them you would already know we solved this issue.
OP says ... and also ruins Batman's plan
In the English Language Preperation and Plan is the same thing.
Punisher is one of my favorites of all time. But he loses here. Don't give Batman Prep, and Punisher wins. No matter what punisher would prep, Batman would do better. And bloodlusted Batman? With Prep? WHY?!?
Bro Batman does not have Prep. He losses prep at the beggining of the Match as the OP said.
He loses half of his bat cave, not his prep.
"Sigh" If ya read the post instead of skimmimg them you would already know we solved this issue. OP says ... and also ruins Batman's plan In the English Language Preperation and Plan is the same thing.
Lol You apparently don't know Batman. He always has more than one plan.
Punisher is one of my favorites of all time. But he loses here. Don't give Batman Prep, and Punisher wins. No matter what punisher would prep, Batman would do better. And bloodlusted Batman? With Prep? WHY?!?
Bro Batman does not have Prep. He losses prep at the beggining of the Match as the OP said.
He loses half of his bat cave, not his prep.
"Sigh" If ya read the post instead of skimmimg them you would already know we solved this issue. OP says ... and also ruins Batman's plan In the English Language Preperation and Plan is the same thing.
Lol You apparently don't know Batman. He always has more than one plan.
Well I cant really argue that cause I do know Batman. I dont have his whole Collection but enough.
So saying earlier that flames would illuminate the batcave rendering darkness moot was what? Just curious, because earlier, I recall seeing someone cave would be illuminated due to the fire... Reaching for straws to suddenly do an about face. As for NVG's.... I'm sure Batman doesn't have them built in...oh wait..he does, an ALOT more, into his suit. Oh, and his suit is made to negate night vision. Prep god Frank probably should have caught that eh? Believing you have an advantage when you don't is usually a huge, HUGE disadvantage.
And let's stop pretending home field advantage is darkness alone. Nope. It's knowledge of terrain. This is set on home turf for Bats. Even with 3 weeks prep, Frank is screwed, because Bruce has a lifetime of familiarity with his terrain, even if part of it is destroyed.
Claiming Punisher is Bats' equal in prep is laughable. Bats has a lifetime of prep, and the whole community agrees Bat's trumps Frank by wide, wide margins. Even half prepped, Bats prep trumps Franks.
Most of Batman's rogues are humans. He's got plenty of stuff for humans as well plus stuff that would be overkill for humans. Last I knew, Frank was one of those. Saying half the cave being gone eliminates his prep is a joke. That eliminates maybe 1/3 of his prep for all of his enemies in general. Bat's is fully prepped, and has more than adequate firepower to take down Frank.
So, even Frank's 'advantages' don't work for him. This battle was lost from the get go. Put them in a brightly lit football stadium, flat empty, Bats with no prep, and Frank with a gun and a day's prep, and you've got a win for Frank. Not this one. It was set up for Frank to lose.
So saying earlier that flames would illuminate the batcave rendering darkness moot was what? Just curious, because earlier, I recall seeing someone cave would be illuminated due to the fire... Reaching for straws to suddenly do an about face. As for NVG's.... I'm sure Batman doesn't have them built in...oh wait..he does, an ALOT more, into his suit. Oh, and his suit is made to negate night vision. Prep god Frank probably should have caught that eh? Believing you have an advantage when you don't is usually a huge, HUGE disadvantage.
And let's stop pretending home field advantage is darkness alone. Nope. It's knowledge of terrain. This is set on home turf for Bats. Even with 3 weeks prep, Frank is screwed, because Bruce has a lifetime of familiarity with his terrain, even if part of it is destroyed.
Claiming Punisher is Bats' equal in prep is laughable. Bats has a lifetime of prep, and the whole community agrees Bat's trumps Frank by wide, wide margins. Even half prepped, Bats prep trumps Franks.
Most of Batman's rogues are humans. He's got plenty of stuff for humans as well plus stuff that would be overkill for humans. Last I knew, Frank was one of those. Saying half the cave being gone eliminates his prep is a joke. That eliminates maybe 1/3 of his prep for all of his enemies in general. Bat's is fully prepped, and has more than adequate firepower to take down Frank.
So, even Frank's 'advantages' don't work for him. This battle was lost from the get go. Put them in a brightly lit football stadium, flat empty, Bats with no prep, and Frank with a gun and a day's prep, and you've got a win for Frank. Not this one. It was set up for Frank to lose.
1) I Never said the Cave be Illuminated or not, so dont tell me Im About faceing. You obviously dont read my Posts. Where is Bats NVGs built in. Scans be nice. Again Downplaying Frank.
2) Yet Punisher has Scope it out enough to blow it half to hell. Nuff said.
3) Its is Laughable and I never said Punisher is Better than Bats in Prep. Never ever said that. I even said mutiple time Bats wins if he has Prep. Punisher only wins if Bats Prep is Blown to hell. READ MY POST why dont ya. It helps you form a real Argument.
4) I bet you fell that way. You make Claims of things I said when I said the Opposit or not at all. Sounds Fanboyish to me.
Cryo-CapsulesConcussive bombsFlamethrower with approaching sensorSonicsThis is for LOLs: Btaman has his own NUKEEMPMini-ExplosivesHeat BatarangBombs
@CadenceV2: Again undrestimating Batman gadgets?? Many of Batarnags are explosives (More powerful than a grenade),Mini-Explosives,EMP Blaster (screwed the head of a person),Cryo- Capsules ( near absolute zero),Magnetic Batarangs,Eletric Batarangs,Sonic devices...I have to tell more or show more scans??
Batman has the advantage to fight in his home,Batcave has many secret hideouts (just Bruce and his partners knows to open)...He spent years in that cave, where he could hide that Batman would not see
Cryo-Capsules Concussive bombs Flamethrower with approaching sensor Sonics This is for LOLs: Btaman has his own NUKE EMP Mini-Explosives Heat Batarang Bombs
@CadenceV2: Again undrestimating Batman gadgets?? Many of Batarnags are explosives (More powerful than a grenade),Mini-Explosives,EMP Blaster (screwed the head of a person),Cryo- Capsules ( near absolute zero),Magnetic Batarangs,Eletric Batarangs,Sonic devices...I have to tell more or show more scans??
Batman has the advantage to fight in his home,Batcave has many secret hideouts (just Bruce and his partners knows to open)... He spent years in that cave, where he could hide that Batman would not see
@matchesmalone21 said:
Cryo-Capsules Concussive bombs Flamethrower with approaching sensor Sonics This is for LOLs: Btaman has his own NUKE EMP Mini-Explosives Heat Batarang Bombs
@CadenceV2: Again undrestimating Batman gadgets?? Many of Batarnags are explosives (More powerful than a grenade),Mini-Explosives,EMP Blaster (screwed the head of a person),Cryo- Capsules ( near absolute zero),Magnetic Batarangs,Eletric Batarangs,Sonic devices...I have to tell more or show more scans??
Batman has the advantage to fight in his home,Batcave has many secret hideouts (just Bruce and his partners knows to open)... He spent years in that cave, where he could hide that Batman would not see
LOL Again Sweet Pics. :) Add these to colloections for futur Debates. I Love the Mini Nuke.
Mini Nuke FTW! LMAO I cjust cant form a Argument against the Mini Nuke... I cant think of a dman thing.
Ill concede... the Mini Nuke sells it. However with Just Gas Pellets, Batarangs, and some Explosives Batman gets Taken Down. The Mini Nuke wins.
His his mouth is not explosion, fire proof and bulletproof and he cant dodge bullets. and hes not going to find it easy to disarm Pun that easy, and if this starts off an they are at a long range, he could have a sniper.
--and you should be able to use a gun, thats if there is no gas leaking about.
@jnw93: He can't what?? dodge bullets?? Now I have sure,you never read any Batman comics in your entire life..... Btaman is more skilled and agile than Frank Castle,he faced armed thugs,mafia killers,snipers,superior in numbers amny times...now tell me ,Frank can dodge bullets?? Stop embarrasses himself and read about Batman. abou the use of the use of the gun,is because of the bomb that it has in the Cave. Re-read what I post..
The OP says:The Scenario: The Battle takes place in the Bat-cave. The Punisher and Batman have had 3 weeks to prepare, and he plants a massive bomb in the Bat-cave, and destroys half of it, killing Robin, Alfred, and Batgirl, and destroys the Batmobile, and most of his gadgets and suits, and also ruins Batman's plan. Because of this Batman is very angry, and forgets all about his "no killing vow". Both Batman and Frank are equipped with everything they need to kill one-another.
Batman, in his early years, is able to single-handedly defeat an army of Luthor’s robo-soldiers that had conquered a military base, chased off the human soldiers, and prevented the army from conquering the base back
Inside his own alien robot he created, Bats uses it to avoid detection from a giant alien and sentient starship and to “blind” it
After beating an army of Lex’s robo-soldiers last issue, Batman uses one of them he re-programmed to sneak in the base “Luthor” was in, while causing a temporary black-out. Later he has that same robot save him from one of his fellows and cause the self-destruction of all the others, thus ruining Luthor’s plan to seize control of the USA (albeit the Lex Luthor in the military base is revealed to be a mind-controlled robotic sosia, thus allowing the real Lex to escape justice)
Plots the defeat of Lex Luthor’s Injustice Gang by employing corporate takeover tactics destroying the Injustice Gang from within by planting spies (Plastic Man, Mirror Master, and Conner Hawke) on the inside who secretly feed him information
Through Lucious Fox, Bruce stops Luthor’s real plan to own Gotham and then forces him out of the city
Contributes to end Luthor’s presidency of the US and to ruin him by arranging for Lex’s words during his fight with Superman to be broadcasted all over the world, and, thanks to his connections with Talia, by having Luthor lose his company and all his money
@jashro44: Frank is a highly trained US Marine with tonnes of additional military training with some of the most elite armed forces in the world, including US Navy SEAL training, as well as training with Israeli Commandos, and SAS. he's trained on pretty much every form of armed combat in the world, can effectively use many forms of unarmed combat, and can use ANYTHING as a weapon. He made a blowgun that incapacitated a man out of a straw, hot sauce and a toothpick. If anyone has too much skill it's probably Frank.
Then, he leads them to victory also against Gorilla Grodd and his apes, the latters having been enhanced by Grodd and given TK powers, taking out a few of them with pressure point blows to their nerve clusters in the process
As a bonus, here is the Dark Knight giving Supes a lecture on team-work (yeah, you understood it right)
Superman has stated he is the most dangerous man on earth.
@XMen1963: Show me frank castle beating anyone on batmans level in hand to hand combat. After fighting deathstroke slade stated he wouldn't have wanted to fight him without his enhanced strength, he has defeated bane, held his own with lady shiva and defeated a mind controlled shiva, and has pretty much stomped nightwing before.
The OP says:The Scenario: The Battle takes place in the Bat-cave. The Punisher and Batman have had 3 weeks to prepare, and he plants a massive bomb in the Bat-cave, and destroys half of it, killing Robin, Alfred, and Batgirl, and destroys the Batmobile, and most of his gadgets and suits, and also ruins Batman's plan. Because of this Batman is very angry, and forgets all about his "no killing vow". Both Batman and Frank are equipped with everything they need to kill one-another.
Batman has 3 weeks to prep
You left out the part in the third-to-last sentence where it says his plan is ruined by the explosion.
Bruce began his physical and mental conditioning when he was 11 and then intense physical training and weight lifting at age 12. He has mastered full body control by the time he was 18. Bruce Wayne, since the age of 15, has created a strict diet to enable his body to develop and operate at its most proficient, along with biofeedback treatments.
He has spent his entire life in pursuit of physical perfection and has attained it through constant intensive training and determination and engaged in an intensive regular regimen of rigorous exercise (including aerobics, weight lifting, gymnastics, and simulated combat) to keep himself in peak condition. at the age of 14 he forges letters to ''well-intentioned people'' don't steal his fortune and that he could leave Gotham City to get the training he sought andattended universities throughout the world (Biology, Technology, Mathematics, Physics, Mythology, Geography, & History, Criminal Science, Forensics, Computer Science, Chemistry and Engineering, Physics, Forensic Sciences, Medical Sciences, Advanced Chemistry and Technology, Expanded Computer and Engineering Sciences,Expanded Device Pool,Advanced New Development in Forensic and Medical Sciences),with 20 years-old Bruce settled in Washington and was accepted as a trainee at the FBI, learned all about applications of laws, statistical analysis, fill out reports, use of firearms and much more (he did not have the money to enter the FBI, test was physical and psychological),he stayed for 2 months.
Shortly after, he went to the mountains of Changbay to be trained by the master Kirigi, their training lasted almost a yearand trained in martial arts (127 styles) and meditation,Yoga.... by others masters:Richard Dragon,Tsunemoto,David Cain,Chu Chin Li and many other,trained in hunting techniques by African Bushmen Trained detective skills and hunting with Henri Ducard,Willie Dogget and Harvey Harris.
How KIrigi says:You have been marked by any great violence, that gave him the talent for fighting technique, but unless a much luck will destroy you.
@jashro44: Frank is a highly trained US Marine with tonnes of additional military training with some of the most elite armed forces in the world, including US Navy SEAL training, as well as training with Israeli Commandos, and SAS. he's trained on pretty much every form of armed combat in the world, can effectively use many forms of unarmed combat, and can use ANYTHING as a weapon. He made a blowgun that incapacitated a man out of a straw, hot sauce and a toothpick. If anyone has too much skill it's probably Frank.
Beats down an entire unit of special forces commandos in an impressive display of empty hand to hand fighting prowess.
lol
Round 1 - Gets the better of Frank Castle in a brief scuffle
Round 2 - After letting Punisher punch him once, Bats easily disposes of him (it must be noted, though, that Frank had both shoulders injured and that this may have affected his performance)
@XMen1963: Batman has various gadgets as well. If we count the bat magnet as standered gear frank wont be holding those guns. Gas or freeze pellets will work to. Batman is just a better dodger then punisher. Punisher will get hit more times then batman.
@jashro44: Frank is a highly trained US Marine with tonnes of additional military training with some of the most elite armed forces in the world, including US Navy SEAL training, as well as training with Israeli Commandos, and SAS. he's trained on pretty much every form of armed combat in the world, can effectively use many forms of unarmed combat, and can use ANYTHING as a weapon. He made a blowgun that incapacitated a man out of a straw, hot sauce and a toothpick. If anyone has too much skill it's probably Frank.
Beats down an entire unit of special forces commandos in an impressive display of empty hand to hand fighting prowess.
lol
Round 1 - Gets the better of Frank Castle in a brief scuffle
Round 2 - After letting Punisher punch him once, Bats easily disposes of him (it must be noted, though, that Frank had both shoulders injured and that this may have affected his performance)
You do realize the winner of Batman Vs Punisher battles were fan-picked, right?
@jashro44: Frank is a highly trained US Marine with tonnes of additional military training with some of the most elite armed forces in the world, including US Navy SEAL training, as well as training with Israeli Commandos, and SAS. he's trained on pretty much every form of armed combat in the world, can effectively use many forms of unarmed combat, and can use ANYTHING as a weapon. He made a blowgun that incapacitated a man out of a straw, hot sauce and a toothpick. If anyone has too much skill it's probably Frank.
Beats down an entire unit of special forces commandos in an impressive display of empty hand to hand fighting prowess.
lol
Round 1 - Gets the better of Frank Castle in a brief scuffle
Round 2 - After letting Punisher punch him once, Bats easily disposes of him (it must be noted, though, that Frank had both shoulders injured and that this may have affected his performance)
You do realize the winner of Batman Vs Punisher battles were fan-picked, right?
You do realize batman would do far worse in a normal encounter to frank than what was even shown in the crossover right?
His knowledge of every known discipline has made him a unique and unpredictable opponent (Batman The Ultimate Guide to the Dark Knight)
Has spent years perfecting every known fighting discipline (The Ultimate Guide to the Justice League of America)
Mentions that he's trained to perfection in every combat form there is plus how he can incapacitate a person in 463 different ways without drawing blood (Batman The Widening Gyre #4)
Is said to be the most highly skilled fighter in the world, possibly the greatest human fighter the world has ever known, and a master of every combat form there is (Batman Secret Files & Origins #1)
Was a natural to Ted Grant who taught him all his best moves before he moved on to the next teacher. With he each new teacher he trained under, he perfected a new fighting skill and was becoming the sum of them all plus more (Batman/Wildcat #2)
So saying earlier that flames would illuminate the batcave rendering darkness moot was what? Just curious, because earlier, I recall seeing someone cave would be illuminated due to the fire... Reaching for straws to suddenly do an about face. As for NVG's.... I'm sure Batman doesn't have them built in...oh wait..he does, an ALOT more, into his suit. Oh, and his suit is made to negate night vision. Prep god Frank probably should have caught that eh? Believing you have an advantage when you don't is usually a huge, HUGE disadvantage.
And let's stop pretending home field advantage is darkness alone. Nope. It's knowledge of terrain. This is set on home turf for Bats. Even with 3 weeks prep, Frank is screwed, because Bruce has a lifetime of familiarity with his terrain, even if part of it is destroyed.
Claiming Punisher is Bats' equal in prep is laughable. Bats has a lifetime of prep, and the whole community agrees Bat's trumps Frank by wide, wide margins. Even half prepped, Bats prep trumps Franks.
Most of Batman's rogues are humans. He's got plenty of stuff for humans as well plus stuff that would be overkill for humans. Last I knew, Frank was one of those. Saying half the cave being gone eliminates his prep is a joke. That eliminates maybe 1/3 of his prep for all of his enemies in general. Bat's is fully prepped, and has more than adequate firepower to take down Frank.
So, even Frank's 'advantages' don't work for him. This battle was lost from the get go. Put them in a brightly lit football stadium, flat empty, Bats with no prep, and Frank with a gun and a day's prep, and you've got a win for Frank. Not this one. It was set up for Frank to lose.
1) I Never said the Cave be Illuminated or not, so dont tell me Im About faceing. You obviously dont read my Posts. Where is Bats NVGs built in. Scans be nice. Again Downplaying Frank. 2) Yet Punisher has Scope it out enough to blow it half to hell. Nuff said. 3) Its is Laughable and I never said Punisher is Better than Bats in Prep. Never ever said that. I even said mutiple time Bats wins if he has Prep. Punisher only wins if Bats Prep is Blown to hell. READ MY POST why dont ya. It helps you form a real Argument. 4) I bet you fell that way. You make Claims of things I said when I said the Opposit or not at all. Sounds Fanboyish to me.
First off, my original post was in response to I believe the OP claiming fire illuminated the cave. You then stepped on the grenade as it were. Apologies for mistaken identities in that regard. Illogical rants all sound the same to me after a while.
The premise that destroying even "most" of batman's toys equals destroying his prep is a complete joke. Most of the prep isn't the toys, hence, the premise of the original post is debunked. (frankly it's even worse than that, give him 3 days to prep for Frank, and one of Franks favorite toys is debilitating ambush and overkill on things that go boom? I don't see Frank getting into the cave after hour 1) The only way to blow Bats' prep to hell is to blow Bats himself silly, and then it isn't much of a fight is it? Even with a few toys however, bats is in good shape. He's got enough on him to be effective as is. Regardless, huge home field advantage, and that's life long prep. Traditionally, Batman beats his many of his superiors and almost all of his peers when he has prep advantage. Even with a small portion being eliminated, he's got prep advantage.
As for scans, if you seriously don't believe the batsuit isn't equipped with night vision and nv-abating tech, then stop claiming you know the first thing about the character. That's day one stuff. If you really must have them, I'll start digging, but if you're like me, and tired of seeing about 50 scans to prove a point, you'd look it up. You have a keyboard and obviously idle fingers.
So...the prep advantage belongs to Bats. The skill advantage...very slight advantage Bats (Frank is after all one of Marvel's attempts at Batman.) Motivation...big advantage to Bats. Weapons...push. Defenses...slight advantage Bats. Terrain...huge advantage Bats.
Frank isn't being downplayed. He's in a bad situation. I'm sure the OP was trying to handicap Bats. Just didn't work out that way.
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