The Punisher in Arkham Asylum

@Matezoide2 said:

@The Man of Yesteryear said:

@Matezoide2 said:

At the game's very beggining,the second Joker starts to attack the guards,Frank puts a bullet through his head. Until that point,the inmates werent freed yet,correct? I am not entirely sure if game-Harley would do anything without Joker.

This made me lol.

Was that a ``it is funny because it is true`` or a ``it is funny because it is wrong``? :P

i don't think Frank would let it go that far...

Hell, Frank would have shot him while Joker was on the stretcher before that.

@Matezoide2 said:

@The Man of Yesteryear said:

@Matezoide2 said:

At the game's very beggining,the second Joker starts to attack the guards,Frank puts a bullet through his head. Until that point,the inmates werent freed yet,correct? I am not entirely sure if game-Harley would do anything without Joker.

This made me lol.

Was that a ``it is funny because it is true`` or a ``it is funny because it is wrong``? :P

i don't think Frank would let it go that far...

Hell, Frank would have shot him while Joker was on the stretcher before that.

@Matezoide2 said:

@nickthedevil said:

@Matezoide2 said:

@The Man of Yesteryear said:

@Matezoide2 said:

At the game's very beggining,the second Joker starts to attack the guards,Frank puts a bullet through his head. Until that point,the inmates werent freed yet,correct? I am not entirely sure if game-Harley would do anything without Joker.

This made me lol.

Was that a ``it is funny because it is true`` or a ``it is funny because it is wrong``? :P

i don't think Frank would let it go that far...

Hell, Frank would have shot him while Joker was on the stretcher before that.

Hum....now you mention it,Batman attacks Joker when the lights go off....your right,Frank would definetively shoot him. :P And there we have it,Frank wins the challenge by killing the Joker as soon as possible :P

LOL

and BEFORE that, Batman is taking joker to arkham in the car....Punisher wouldn't have taken him to Arkham in the first place. he would have blown his brains out XD

@Matezoide2 said:

@nickthedevil said:

@Matezoide2 said:

@The Man of Yesteryear said:

@Matezoide2 said:

At the game's very beggining,the second Joker starts to attack the guards,Frank puts a bullet through his head. Until that point,the inmates werent freed yet,correct? I am not entirely sure if game-Harley would do anything without Joker.

This made me lol.

Was that a ``it is funny because it is true`` or a ``it is funny because it is wrong``? :P

i don't think Frank would let it go that far...

Hell, Frank would have shot him while Joker was on the stretcher before that.

Hum....now you mention it,Batman attacks Joker when the lights go off....your right,Frank would definetively shoot him. :P And there we have it,Frank wins the challenge by killing the Joker as soon as possible :P

LOL

and BEFORE that, Batman is taking joker to arkham in the car....Punisher wouldn't have taken him to Arkham in the first place. he would have blown his brains out XD

@Matezoide2: @nickthedevil:

Edited the OP, Joker has already escaped and is in his hideout when Frank starts the challenge.

@TheBatman586 said:

@Matezoide2: @nickthedevil:

Edited the OP, Joker has already escaped and is in his hideout when Frank starts the challenge.

ah, that fixes things.

@Matezoide2 said:

@The Man of Yesteryear said:

@Matezoide2 said:

At the game's very beggining,the second Joker starts to attack the guards,Frank puts a bullet through his head. Until that point,the inmates werent freed yet,correct? I am not entirely sure if game-Harley would do anything without Joker.

This made me lol.

Was that a ``it is funny because it is true`` or a ``it is funny because it is wrong``? :P

No I was just imagining the game being like that

*watch intro*

Oh no! Joker's trying to esc-*BLAM*!

*roll credits*

Frank will just shoot everyone. Batman's Rogues Gallery will be extinct after a week.

@nickzambuto: I thought we were speaking of the video game. That was where it was from.

@nickzambuto: I find Punisher too inconstant in that regard. Innocent people have died more than once on his pursut of justice even when he tries to protect them.

Replace agent Miller getting annoyed with James Gordon getting annoyed and the guy getting shot in the face with every villain in Arkham and this is how it plays out.

Franks detective skills are basically this: "You look bad bang you're dead, bang you're dead etc...."

Jame's Gordon: GOD DAMMIT CASTLE!

Morals off for The Punisher? He blows up the Asylum.

Frank can't do it.

1. He isn't half the detective Bruce is, with or without the detective mode. Batman's first crime scene was tracking alcohol dispersed into the atmosphere, there's no way Frank will figure that out and calibrate the settings to trace it.

2. Frank is wreckless. There are missions where criminals won't hesitate to kill hostages at the first sign of Batman, Frank is far less stealthy.

3. Making it through the rogues will be very troublesome. Bane got hold of Batman at one point who was amped up on a very potent venom (Bane without venom was throwing Batman around the hotel). Without the Batmobile, Punisher dies. Killer Croc would eat Punisher. Not sure how Punisher will fair against enough toxin to drive 10 men insane. Or resist a Titan change.

Punisher doesn't make it 2 hours.

Is Frank even smart? Batman knows his villains like the back of his hand. From what I've read about him, Frank would probably underestamate them greatly.

Frank cleans out the Asylum. The hard parts would be getting around to points that would require grappling or zip-lining, but taking care of the opposition could be solved with a bullet or two.

A lot of the issues in Arkham Asylum could have been solved in a more timely manner if Batman used guns instead of taking advantage of the fact that thugs can't look up whenever he goes out of their line of sight for a second, hell the game would have been practically impossible at multiple points for Batman if they could. A lot less Arkham guards would be dead due to the inmates being taken out permanently, and I would bet that Frank would have a lot more firepower backing him up if or when they volunteer to watch his back at key points.

A proper application of explosives, bullets, and stealth can be a good substitute or even a more effective option in this case, and I think Frank is up to the job.

Having played the game, The Punisher wins this easily - and breaks the game. The game was designed for Batman, who doesn't use guns, and is not trying to kill everyone. Bane - melee fighter, gets killed as fast as it takes Frank to shoot him. Same for Croc, Zzazz(?), Ivy, and everyone else. Even Joker (sorry Joker fans). You see, in game, Joker goes into a monologue before the Bane fight - and would be shot right there. Also, the Joker is being escorted on his way into Arkham in the beginning of the game - with Batman walking him in. Swap Batman for the Punisher, and the game BEGINS with the Punisher killing Joker and escaping the police as he heads INTO Arkham to kill everyone. Joker preys on the fact that Batman has a morality that won't allow him to kill Joker - not so with Frank Castle. This is almost a spite thread.

I like this set up, I might do something like this. I think the Punisher can do this.

We all know how this plays out. Punisher makes it too the Joker, but the Joker get's the drop on him and is pissed because he's not the Bat. After gassing and pistol-whipping Frank brutally while making horrible puns, Joker's about to kill the Punisher when the lights go out. "There he is," Whispers the Joker, right before something metal clinks against his gun knocking it out of his hand......

Frank makes it to the Joker.... but seriously the Joker's one of the meanest and most underrated villains in all of comics. Some of the stuff he's pulled put much more powerful bad guy's to absolute shame.

What about the hostages? What about the detective work? Batman synthesised a cure for the Titan formula, how is Punisher replicating that feat?

He doesn't need to. Punisher wins.

The hostage situations can be taken care of through the use of flashbangs, smoke grenades, and then shooting the mooks in the face/cutting their throats.

As for the Titan formula, that's assuming Frank even cares about getting the cure, it's not his job to do something like that, it's his job to punish.

grumble grumble stop calling magazines 'clips' rifles don't take clips anymore grumble grumble

Punisher blows up the Asylum, done and done.

Croc eats him, ivy kills him, any number of environmental things kill him puzzles kill him he fails to save most civilians, honestly Punisher is out of his league here as Batman is the only one who can pull this off completely.

Frank survives

Frank probably gets stabbed in the chest by a killer vine by Poison Ivy.

And Frank can't figure out puzzles so he would get stuck and say "F*ck this!" and just sets charges everywhere and blows the entirety of Arkham sky-high.

Frank is getting really downplayed.

For the record, Frank doesn't rarely understimates people; I haven't seen him do it at least. Frank is also resisant to drugs. And lastly, I don't know why everyone thinks Frank is this dumb dude that just sprays people in the face and hopes for the best.

I don't think blowing up the Asylum is really a valid option here...Punisher is always morals-off, and that doesn't imply bloodlust at all. I don't even see him having enough explosives to bring down multiple buildings. More importantly, I don't see an in-character Frank blowing Arkham up when there are multiple innocent hostages and guards.

There are also several scenarios in the game that make me question if Punisher can pull through. Like Scarecrow stabbing Bats with enough fear gas to 'drive ten men insane'. I realize Punisher isn't exactly a weakling, but that takes insane Bat-Willpower to circumvent. Without access to the Batcave and Bats' other gadgets, there are some bits in the campaign that might be difficult to overcome. Like maneuvering across huge gaps or the sewers without the Line Launcher.

@keenko: He lacks many of the gadgets that makes Batmans trip though arkum possible and joker has no reason not to kill him

Frist Ivy can kill him quite easily

Croc is immune to bullets ( he ignored sniper rifles ) and with no knowledge of Croc he gets cocky and gets eaten

zazack kills the hostage befor being killed

Joker sics a bunch of TITANed up thugs on him to blitz , or sets up bombs to kill him or countless of other creative ways to kill him ,Joker has this delusion he cannot kill batman but punisher? he pulls out his entire arsenal of tricks to kill him . punisher is screwed

then we go though the various scenarios with armed thugs several of hostages which will all die and we also have the issue of platforming without a grapple gun, or glide capes he will have an impossible time getting around or being stealthy

Because they assume that Frank is mentally deficient just because he takes a more direct way of taking out criminals. Frank can play stealth game just as well as he can play the gunslinger, he's not an idiot when assessing his combat options. Different writers have given him different mindsets, so I'm guessing a lot of people focus on the blood knight aspect where he barges in from the front door and starts spraying an entire room of thugs and assume that's all he is or can do.

Mind, a lot what the inmates in Arkham Asylum get away with are because of Batman's limited ranged and lethal options, not to mention Batman's lack of capacity to kill, events have the potential for playing out VERY differently when certain people are taken out of the equation permanently or early on.

Bane's not bulletproof, Croc isn't bulletproof, Ivy isn't human anymore but she's still not bulletproof, no one in Batman's rogues gallery in Arkham are bulletproof save for Clayface, they are saved by Batman's lack of lethal weapons and drive to kill.

You're right, he isn't Batman, the extraneous stuff that isn't related to him killing inmates won't matter to him and in fact could make his job easier.

@vmole:

Croc isn't bulletproof

arkayum croc tanked sniper rounds to the face with no issues and Punisher is faceing him...... in the sewers Good luck punisher

Ivy isn't human anymore

Debate able but ivys does have countless options to kill punisher

You're right, he isn't Batman, the extraneous stuff that isn't related to him killing inmates won't matter to him and in fact could make his job easier.

By my understanding of the OP he has to do everything Batman did, and I have to point out there are times where only batman or someone with plat forming abilities can move on from an arera,and in any of the hostage situations the hostages will die

I promise you he will run out of explosives and ammo very quickly as any titan thug is a bullet sponge and ammo is relatively rare here

1) When was this? Croc can get disoriented with a batarang to the face when he pops up, a bullet is going to do a hell of a lot more than a batarang than just ding him.

2) Countless doesn't matter, Frank just needs one bullet to kill Ivy.

3) Titans are more resistant to blunt force damage, but I think a bullet to the head will still put them down just the same.

Since he has access to some of the gear Batman has and a direct link to Oracle, he can simply scan the pertinent subject matter to Oracle and leave her to handle most of the technical issues while he offs inmates. Dr. Young still has the potential of staying alive through Frank's brand of intervention and means of handling thugs, making it easier to deal with the Titan formula.

He can acquire more explosives and other weaponry from slain thugs and weapon caches.

@vmole:

1.arkyum tie in comics, no it was the shook collar that knocked him aside and that was only for a short time batman could not beat him he only managed to survive the encounter

2.and all ivy has to do is crush him, and he will need to shoot her thoughe a lot of massively huge plants and he will be next to empty on ammo from all the outher fights at this point 9 if he somehow manged to get to ivy alive)

3. and a single punch from any of them will break every bone in his body and he has to score a head shot on a charging monster while surrounded by fodder and outher titans

and more importantly The joker curbs him The joker has prep foreknowledge and he is not holdeing back because Frank is not batman

1) Right, it was a shock collar that messed him up. I'd wager Frank can get the same result by shooting it, then unloading right into Croc's face while he's disoriented.

I'm also going to need context on that scan. Depending on how that instance played out, I'm going to prematurely state it was a situation of 'not enough gun.' Croc's been taken out through severe beatings before, even if the bullets don't somehow penetrate, the energy imparted from the bullet is going to be a lot more than from a punch.

2) Frank can draw and put a bullet in Ivy faster than she can get a vine around him, though I doubt it'd even get that far since she's still stuck in her containment cube when Batman encounters her, Frank can just kill her while she's still trapped and weakened.

3) Assuming they can even somehow get that close to punch him, he's going to put a bullet in their skull well before they even get close, then he's going to sweep the rest of the thugs.

Remember, a lot of the fights in Batman are as drawn out as they are because Batman chooses to beat them up and use non-lethal measures, engagements are going to be a lot shorter with Frank's means of dealing with criminals. Instead of sneaking around gargoyles and flying down from the rafters to kick in a thug's head and attempt to beat the rest of the gang up, Frank can simply get good vantage point and fill them with lead.

There's no concept of 'fair' in Frank's mind, unarmed criminals are going to get shot or knifed just the same if they try to rush him like the morons they are.

@madrid_san@vmole Did you guys even read the OP? I'm pretty sure it was set up to see if Frank can replicate what Batman did in the game. Sure Frank can just kill, but the OP made it clear he had to progress through the game as Batman did, saving Gordon, hostages, finding Titan etc. Batman cleared the gauntlet in one night using his head more times than not.

@vmole:

1. he was running somewhere and Guards where firing at him ( they did not say what kind of guns but they where sniper rifles )and he was hit repeatedly and he showed no sign of injury, and how would frank know what it was? he has no prior knowledge and if he misses that collar he gets eaten and he is fighting Croc in the sewer

2.I was assumeing at the strongest but sure if he kills defenseless people sure he can kill ivy

3. he kills a charging Titan he dies and slides into him, or distracts him long enough for another titan to get close enough , and thugs can dog pile or countless other option eiter way punisher runs out of ammo very quickly and thugs carrying guns are rare

then this becomes a shooter frank fails all the hostage scenarios and the thugs can win by staying in cover and sheer numbersand wasting more ammo he

Most of which didn't involve and sort of higher-level thinking beyond what the average gamer (maybe I'm giving too much credit here) is capable of, hell I drew a lot of the same conclusions before Batman did when going through the story before he even stated the obvious. I can't recall one instance in the game that required any sort of advanced deductive reasoning beyond what could have been garnered from using the detective mode's features (guy's bleeding/follow blood, someone has a unique pheromone signature/follow signatures, some guy left scratches/follow scratches etc., certain plants on the island have exhibited characteristics that make people resistant to Titan/confront Ivy and take her plants). Frank doesn't have any masters degrees, but he's not an idiot like some people seem to be implying and unable to draw fairly simple conclusions about what's going on around him.

He can save the hostages just fine, he can be as stealthy as he needs to be, I'd say he's even better kitted out for handling some situations simply because he has better ranged options and potentially more powerful equipment to utilize. Instances like Harley escaping like she did in the first instance you meet her or Zsasz's early encounter with a hostage, and them causing more mischief afterwards wouldn't even transpire, because they'd be dead, so there are definitely major butterfly effects to account for that could potentially make Frank's job a lot easier.

You should also keep in mind that there were a lot of gimmes during the game that allowed Batman to succeed, among them being that the inmates were as dumb as lunch meat, were partially deaf since they couldn't hear the grapple gun's loud *BANG* or vents being popped open, were almost definitely blind beyond a narrow cone of vision, and were incapable of looking up until Batman or someone else reminds them that they are operating in a multidimensional world where an 'up' and a 'down' exists. Frank's going to have a field day taking advantage of their disabilities.

1) Still need context, he could have been hit on his backside where his hide is the thickest.

When that shock collar gets hit, Frank's going to get a good window to shred Croc's face open provided he just doesn't aim there in the first place.

2) Yes, he can, quite easily considering the position Ivy's situation when you first meet her, there wouldn't even be an opportunity for her to reach the level of power she did towards the end of the game.

3) He can kill a Titan well before they begin charging, and if they are shot and killed mid-charge then Frank can simply sidestep out of the way, he's not an idiot or slow.

Thugs are not going to be able to dogpile a guy that can shred them with a gun before they can even get close. Either they charge and get cut to pieces or they realize that they're not that stupid and try to run away, which won't save them in the least.

It doesn't have to become a shooter unless you're thinking Frank is going to blast his way in every instance, though it's certainly an option. Frank knows how to take a feather touch to more sensitive matters, but in the more typical engagements that Batman dealt with throughout the events in Arkham Asylum, yeah, Frank can just simply cut them down.

@vmole: All I know is that croc was shot in the head where exactly I do not know ( I do not have the scans on me )

how would frank know where to shoot? and lets say frank hits that collar for whatever reason Cc gets shot and falls back into the sewer... how is frank going to shoot him?

@cjdavis103: Is this what you are talking about?

@keenko: no

I've never seen Punisher do any deductive work on par with Batman, even if YOU can. Do you honestly think Frank can succeed in the area's of detective work? The first crime scene had Batman deducing that he needed to trace alcohol dispersal in the atmosphere. Batman made a cure for the Titan, can Frank? What about getting out of the Batcave after Ivy's plants wrecked the place? Batman was gliding from cliff to cliff, what's Frank going to do? The dude is stuck. What about Scarecrow, if he catches Frank off guard (which he will), Frank goes insane.

Also, I don't think bringing gameplay mechanics will help your case. If it was that realistic, the game would be near impossible.

Oh, well. Anyway, Frank should be able to clear this.

Frank's accuracy should allow for him to tag anyone he encounters and save anyone that tries using a hostage as a human shield.

Gallery

A common misconception is that Frank has average reflexes, this is not the case. His reflexes should allow him to dodge a good majority of whatever people throw at him. And while I'm at it, I should go ahead and show that the average group of goons should do nothing. He defeats 4 dudes in 2 seconds, fight a group of villains that include Mr.Hyde, fights a squad of Cape Killers, and fights an army of Hand ninjas.

Gallery

Gallery

Frank is a lot more agile than people give him credit for.

Gallery

For the record, Frank should be able to handle fear gas too. Frank is pretty use to drug using villains. The first one he gets injected with truth serum and still lies about his name, and in the next two he sees through a combination of hypnosis and drugs and breaks free.

Gallery

Frank has also escaped hightech handcuffs without Cap realizing it.

Gallery

Simply put, Frank shouldn't have much of a problem up until Joker.

He would get stuck on some of the parts that required detective skills and overall problem solving.

Jmarshmallow

To what degree of deductive work did we see that involved anything beyond the base knowledge of the setting or common sense was used in the game? What detective work did Batman do specifically during the events of the game that even a layman like me could figure out? Frank already has along history of doing his own detective work without the assistance of any fancy gadgets or network that Batman possesses, the only thing he lacks is a proper lab that can do the work for him on the fly, which is exactly what detective mode does in the game, so that's not going to be a handicap for him.

If the game would be near impossible, then what's the argument for Batman clearing it without any sort of hangups that were present in the game that Punisher would also have to face? Saying that gameplay mechanics don't count when in fact it was gameplay mechanics that allowed Batman to even succeed during the events of the game would be highly unfair to Frank.

Also, as I mentioned already, that's assuming Ivy even gets that far, and I doubt she will as soon as Frank encounters her in her cell.

Which any dummy (no offense to anyone that has ever played the game, including me) should be able to figure out. A lot of the instances that involved deductive reasoning was fairly base and simple, almost insulting really.

Frank goes down hard.

@patrat18: Why?

Ivy Stomps him, Croc stomps him,Scarecrow stomps him and Clayface stomp him

@vmole

To what degree of deductive work did we see that involved anything beyond the base knowledge of the setting or common sense was used in the game? What detective work did Batman do specifically during the events of the game that even a layman like me could figure out? Frank already has along history of doing his own detective work without the assistance of any fancy gadgets or network that Batman possesses, the only thing he lacks is a proper lab that can do the work for him on the fly, which is exactly what detective mode does in the game, so that's not going to be a handicap for him.

If the game would be near impossible, then what's the argument for Batman clearing it without any sort of hangups that were present in the game that Punisher would also have to face? Saying that gameplay mechanics don't count when in fact it was gameplay mechanics that allowed Batman to even succeed during the events of the game would be highly unfair to Frank.

Also, as I mentioned already, that's assuming Ivy even gets that far, and I doubt she will as soon as Frank encounters her in her cell.

Please, common sense is different for everyone. A thief would know how to pick pockets as its common sense for them, not me. Without BS, can you honestly say that you could solve that first crime scene without hints? Sure you could anticipate it during your play through, Batman was giving us a run down of the whole thing. I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you could, let alone Frank. It doesn't really matter if Frank gets a Detective Mode replica, how is he even going to deduce what he's looking for? The device isn't automatic, Batman had to calibrate the thing.

I'm not sure I understand the second point you're trying to make. Gameplay mechanics is a controllable outcome by the player, its non canon. It didn't allow Batman to succeed, it allowed the player to succeed.

Frank is going to shoot a random inmate like Ivy who wasn't even a current threat at that moment? When you show me something of Frank being that cold, I'll believe you.

Frank would murder all of Batman's villains.