Aight folks; Lets get something straight; TOAA is NOT the real live creator of Marvel universe. We know this because he does not exist outside of the comic in a single corporeal form. He is not a real person.
TOAA is the personification of the collective power of Marvel's creators manifested in the Marvel universe. Even if you put someone like Stan Lee in a comic, it is not really Stan lee, it is a character based on him, it is the same concept of an alternate of a character in an alternate universe. As such, that character in the comic is like every other character in the comic in that they are limited to powers provided to them by real-life authors.
As such, TOAA that appears in comics has no more abilities than the presence unless specifically shown or stated in the comics. This makes this a stalemate.
TOAA is the real live creator of Marvel within the confines of Marvel as a comic. Nothing but us exist outside the comics, but that does no mean that the writers have not ascribed the role of creator to a being they created. The writers do not exist in Marvel, as you stated if Stan Lee is written in, he is a character, as a Marvel character he then would be under the power of TOAA, because in Marvel that is the top.
To my knowledge there is noone in real life who has been officially ordained the title of TOAA in terms of Marvel. And when we speak of TOAA we are referring to this person are we not?
This would be a comic book representation and therefor a comic book character, since the real life authors did not magically jump into the comicbook, but as you said may have ascribed a comic book character that role, it is still a character who lacks the real power to individually take action against "the presence" in the manner which many indicate here. But I think you got that.
If you're referring to a real person, for it to be canon, Marvel would have to officially place that title (TOAA) on a real person. To my knowledge they have not; So you would have someone who does not officially/canonically exist in "real life" vs someone who exists in comics which would actually default the win to "the presence".
Now, assuming they did officially name someone in real life TOAA, then we would be using a Comicbook Character vs a "real life" person; A real life person who has no legal right to interact with "the presence", and therefor, in character, would not do anything at all to the presence, which still makes this a "Stalemate".
Edit: A real life TOAA could, in character, seek legal action, but since the TOAA and "the presence" are abstract concepts based on "Gods of Myth" the chances are the cases would be thrown out, thus also leading to a stalemate.
I work crazy hour hours lol
I'm referring only to the being in Marvel that has been called TOAA/the Creator. I Can see it's role being something akin to the positions of the writer, but they have not claimed to be the creator that LT and others have talked about, which leads me to believe that TOAA is a character, maybe not an active one but a character nonetheless. LT having as much power as he does and the Phoenix existing in every Marvel universe in some form shows that TOAA has a great deal of power, as they are both dependent on the will and power of TOAA.
Aight folks; Lets get something straight; TOAA is NOT the real live creator of Marvel universe. We know this because he does not exist outside of the comic in a single corporeal form. He is not a real person.
TOAA is the personification of the collective power of Marvel's creators manifested in the Marvel universe. Even if you put someone like Stan Lee in a comic, it is not really Stan lee, it is a character based on him, it is the same concept of an alternate of a character in an alternate universe. As such, that character in the comic is like every other character in the comic in that they are limited to powers provided to them by real-life authors.
As such, TOAA that appears in comics has no more abilities than the presence unless specifically shown or stated in the comics. This makes this a stalemate.
TOAA is the real live creator of Marvel within the confines of Marvel as a comic. Nothing but us exist outside the comics, but that does no mean that the writers have not ascribed the role of creator to a being they created. The writers do not exist in Marvel, as you stated if Stan Lee is written in, he is a character, as a Marvel character he then would be under the power of TOAA, because in Marvel that is the top.
To my knowledge there is noone in real life who has been officially ordained the title of TOAA in terms of Marvel. And when we speak of TOAA we are referring to this person are we not?
This would be a comic book representation and therefor a comic book character, since the real life authors did not magically jump into the comicbook, but as you said may have ascribed a comic book character that role, it is still a character who lacks the real power to individually take action against "the presence" in the manner which many indicate here. But I think you got that.
If you're referring to a real person, for it to be canon, Marvel would have to officially place that title (TOAA) on a real person. To my knowledge they have not; So you would have someone who does not officially/canonically exist in "real life" vs someone who exists in comics which would actually default the win to "the presence".
Now, assuming they did officially name someone in real life TOAA, then we would be using a Comicbook Character vs a "real life" person; A real life person who has no legal right to interact with "the presence", and therefor, in character, would not do anything at all to the presence, which still makes this a "Stalemate".
Edit: A real life TOAA could, in character, seek legal action, but since the TOAA and "the presence" are abstract concepts based on "Gods of Myth" the chances are the cases would be thrown out, thus also leading to a stalemate.
I work crazy hour hours lol
I'm referring only to the being in Marvel that has been called TOAA/the Creator. I Can see it's role being something akin to the positions of the writer, but they have not claimed to be the creator that LT and others have talked about, which leads me to believe that TOAA is a character, maybe not an active one but a character nonetheless. LT having as much power as he does and the Phoenix existing in every Marvel universe in some form shows that TOAA has a great deal of power, as they are both dependent on the will and power of TOAA.
Okay, sounds like we are on the same page for the most part, when I saw your post I saw you quoted my initial post.
My main issue is that I get feeling that many people think this guy is going to merely walk into Warner's studios and shut it down or at least erase all reference of "the presence" (and quite possibly do so with the wave of a hand).
Aight folks; Lets get something straight; TOAA is NOT the real live creator of Marvel universe. We know this because he does not exist outside of the comic in a single corporeal form. He is not a real person.
TOAA is the personification of the collective power of Marvel's creators manifested in the Marvel universe. Even if you put someone like Stan Lee in a comic, it is not really Stan lee, it is a character based on him, it is the same concept of an alternate of a character in an alternate universe. As such, that character in the comic is like every other character in the comic in that they are limited to powers provided to them by real-life authors.
As such, TOAA that appears in comics has no more abilities than the presence unless specifically shown or stated in the comics. This makes this a stalemate.
TOAA is the real live creator of Marvel within the confines of Marvel as a comic. Nothing but us exist outside the comics, but that does no mean that the writers have not ascribed the role of creator to a being they created. The writers do not exist in Marvel, as you stated if Stan Lee is written in, he is a character, as a Marvel character he then would be under the power of TOAA, because in Marvel that is the top.
To my knowledge there is noone in real life who has been officially ordained the title of TOAA in terms of Marvel. And when we speak of TOAA we are referring to this person are we not?
This would be a comic book representation and therefor a comic book character, since the real life authors did not magically jump into the comicbook, but as you said may have ascribed a comic book character that role, it is still a character who lacks the real power to individually take action against "the presence" in the manner which many indicate here. But I think you got that.
If you're referring to a real person, for it to be canon, Marvel would have to officially place that title (TOAA) on a real person. To my knowledge they have not; So you would have someone who does not officially/canonically exist in "real life" vs someone who exists in comics which would actually default the win to "the presence".
Now, assuming they did officially name someone in real life TOAA, then we would be using a Comicbook Character vs a "real life" person; A real life person who has no legal right to interact with "the presence", and therefor, in character, would not do anything at all to the presence, which still makes this a "Stalemate".
Edit: A real life TOAA could, in character, seek legal action, but since the TOAA and "the presence" are abstract concepts based on "Gods of Myth" the chances are the cases would be thrown out, thus also leading to a stalemate.
I work crazy hour hours lol
I'm referring only to the being in Marvel that has been called TOAA/the Creator. I Can see it's role being something akin to the positions of the writer, but they have not claimed to be the creator that LT and others have talked about, which leads me to believe that TOAA is a character, maybe not an active one but a character nonetheless. LT having as much power as he does and the Phoenix existing in every Marvel universe in some form shows that TOAA has a great deal of power, as they are both dependent on the will and power of TOAA.
Okay, sounds like we are on the same page for the most part, when I saw your post I saw you quoted my initial post.
My main issue is that I get feeling that many people think this guy is going to merely walk into Warner's studios and shut it down or at least erase all reference of "the presence" (and quite possibly do so with the wave of a hand).
Yeah I don't think he can walk in there and end it, I agree with the stalemate they should both be powerless against each other, or all knowing enough to laugh at the concept of them doing anything outside of being the "God" of their companies.
DC GOD=Omniscient and omnipotent marvel GOD=stan lee/o-a-a,he was creater Omniscient and omnipotent charater so,yes,TOAA not god,drgnx 100%right,he just "TOAA is the personification of the collective power of Marvel's creators manifested in the Marvel universe" i agree with you
I'm not understanding. Why doesn't it count as true omnipotence?
And your logic with Lucifer is kinda of flawed. In the Bible why did God create Eden with sacred fruit and tell Adam and Eve not to eat it? If he was true omnipotent and omniscient he should have known what was going to happen. Why even go through the motions? The answer is because He can. He is God, the alpha and the omega, and He can do as he pleases regardless if human logic says it is pointless.
Likewise, Presence's omnipotence doesn't hinge on another being free-will, or on whether on not he chooses to respect that free-will. He asked Lucifer of he cooperation because he could and wanted to. It's not like he was shocked, or surprised, or was boo-hoo crying after Lucifer said no. He basically just said OK and left.
Well that's just it, why ask him not just take them away? why bother if he knew the answer all that contradicts his omnipotence and omniscience, and him being shaped by some other forces doesn't make him the supreme being.
@_1elderscrollsfan: I know they are even, but if one of them had to win I would want the one above all, this is because He is based off one of the guys who started marvel. I think that is a great tribute to the true creators of this great universe. I do not know if the Presence is based on somebody or not, so if their was a battle to the death, (existence in this case, death just will not do) I would be cheering for the one above all.
P.S. if the presence is based of someone could somebody tell me, always like to know more.
Is it the celestial One Above All? If so, Presence wins.
If it's The One Above All, then TOAA wins easily, since Presence already said that there are powers even beyond his / hers limits and TOAA represents these powers of imagination and creation. Excelsior.
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