The Phoenix vs The Man of Steel

• The fight begins at 1 mile apart.
• 30 seconds Prep.
• Basic knowledge.

Clark obliterates her with heat vision.

Before or after he gets erased from existence?

She disintigrates him. End of Story.

30 seconds prep = "Clark don't get close to her" lol

So, like what was said above, Clark obliterates her with HV

She obliterates that to.

The Phonix wins

Nah, that's a baseless claim lol a simple HF was able to overcome her "attack"

Really? There are feats to prove it.

Also The Phoenix loved Wolverine and asked him to kill her. So obviously she's not going to vaporize him instantly.

What this guy said. Done.

Clark will likely be vulnerable to her telepathy.

He'll take a physical confrontation though. The world engine was putting out more force that she ever showed. That I remember. Plus he's way faster.

Going with Superman.

Xavier can control whomever he wants.

The Phoenix is greater than him.

Great point in saying she could simply control him, I didn't think of that.

So she controls him and gets him to vaporize himself with Eye Lasers.

Gg

Supes , she can't react that fast.

30 seconds prep gives her enough time to prep her shields or mind controlling powers.

Then prove it

Yeah, she loved Scott too...and Prof. X...

That little scene and Jean asking Wolverine to, and I quote, 'Kill me'.

This needs to be locked.

I honestly don't see how Pheonix loses here. ANYONE want to give a reason why she doesn't disintegrate Supes or just TP's him?

She reacted to a barrage of rifle-fired projectiles with her back turned and guard down.

@pr0d1gy: Give her an hour or a day, she STILL can't react that fast.

Unless she's already using an omni-directional TK shield and waiting for him.

Yeah, and proof that she was in that same mindset? Why didn't she let Wolverine kill her when he was desperately trying to save the professor??

And I didn't want you to prove this anyways since it's a shoddy argument to make, I want you to prove that her "disintegration attack" can affect HV

PIS considering mutants are the only beings on that particular Earth with powers and two of the most powerful, one of which stomped Wolverine in every encounter, said she was the most powerful making her the most powerful being in their known universe and she was fighting herself begging him to kill her.

Jean has force fields and can block attacks with her back turned to the attackers done to both soldiers and a bloodlusted Cyclops. I doubt heat vision is getting through a wall of telekinetic energy that can remove atomic bonds. Then there's that pesky telepathy she can use to shut off conscious powers that he has absolutely no defense against.

Phoenix

clark

I might have to rethink.

It's not PIS....none of them have a HF...a HF which has time and time again proven to be ridiculously powerful....

But honestly, it somehow completely slipped my mind that Jean still used TP in this form. I didn't even think about it till I read what you wrote. She wins with that much at least. However, I still stand by what I said before.

@m_man said:

I honestly don't see how Pheonix loses here. ANYONE want to give a reason why she doesn't disintegrate Supes or just TP's him?

@xiokenji said:

Supes , she can't react that fast.

She reacted to a barrage of rifle-fired projectiles with her back turned and guard down.

This debunks all of the speed blitz arguments.

@m_man: Fair enough , I concede my point in blitzing. been a while since I've watched X-3.

Clark has no TP resistance nor does he have any molecular manipulation resistance

It's PIS for a number of reasons. One being she knew before the island that she could one shot him into unconsciousness with a tk blast because she had already done it. Two his healing factor works on the cellular level and her tk works on at least the atomic level, so technically she should not have only been able to put him down she should have also been able to even destroy his skeleton since adamantium is only so strong due to molecular bonds. Three she did not attack him like she attacked anything else, he would not have survived the same attack she used on Xavier because instead of it being a single beam of tk that she let up on to give him time to heal before attacking again, she telekinetically gripped every atom in Xavier's body and yanked them apart at once.

Jean wins because she can block his every attack on top of telepathically stopping him from using his powers that need conscious thought to activate.

1. That's irrelevant....i'm not talking about the multiple ways she could've beat him, i'm talking about her disintegration attack only.

2. That distinction doesn't matter in this case. His HF repair his body completely meaning it works down to the most base level. Jean's ability to affect matter on a subatomic scale at the level she was doing has no effect on a HF as powerful and rapidly working as Wolverines. We saw as much already. If Jean had the power to alter/block/change his subatomic structure, it would be different, but she doesn't. At best, all she does is destroy the cells at the subatomic level but, again, you can't regenerate without regenerating everything so cellular vs subatomic levels mean nothing.

3. No he was continuously being disintegrated and was even hit with pulses of extra strength at varying intervals....the difference between him and the professor is that latter didn't have HF.

4. She wins because of her TP. She hasn't blocked anything on scale with the damage MoS Superman has shown capable of.

@buttersdaman000:

1. That's irrelevant....i'm not talking about the multiple ways she could've beat him, i'm talking about her disintegration attack only.

I was talking about why it was PIS period and those are the many reasons. It very relevant because her not being able to take him out is PIS.

2. That distinction doesn't matter in this case. His HF repair his body completely meaning it works down to the most base level. Jean's ability to affect matter on a subatomic scale at the level she was doing has no effect on a HF as powerful and rapidly working as Wolverines. We saw as much already. If Jean had the power to alter/block/change his subatomic structure, it would be different, but she doesn't. At best, all she does is destroy the cells at the subatomic level but, again, you can't regenerate without regenerating everything so cellular vs subatomic levels mean nothing.

The nature of her ability to cause matter to scatter in all directions is what makes his healing factor being an issue PIS. If every atom in your body is violently yanked apart in every direction no amount of healing factor is going to matter unless it's established you can regenerate from a single atom. No such thing about his healing factor was established therefore he survived because she attacked him differently than everyone else.

3. No he was continuously being disintegrated and was even hit with pulses of extra strength at varying intervals....the difference between him and the professor is that latter didn't have HF.

Dude rewatch, you can even see a stream of What appears to be smoke going towards him, stop, he heals and then another stream. It was not the same attack or his entire body would have been feeling the effects of the attack and he would have been completely naked as his clothes can't regenerate. Instead we only see a beam like frontal attack. Aside from Xavier not having a healing factor he was attacked differently. He was yanked apart atom by atom, Wolverine was not. Him being able to walk against her tk pushing him is more proof of PIS because she already showed she can manipulate several tons of matter without strain even as an 11 year old girl and already proved she can one shot him earlier in the movie. His sudden resistance to her power was not resistance at all it was her Jean side fighting her Phoenix self just like she did in the comic book.

4. She wins because of her TP. She hasn't blocked anything on scale with the damage MoS Superman has shown capable of.

She blocked Scott's full force, which deflected caused the destruction of a dam. She held back tons upon tons of rushing water and then created a body tight tk cocoon that took that force directly and stayed active for at least a year considering the length of her hair after emerging. His heat vision is not getting through her shield if she allows him to use it.

Wait, are there people actually saying she could do anything outside of TP to Clark? Wolverine was able to get close to her for a bit, Clark is damn near invulnerable. She barely affected much. It was a poor presentation of the Phoenix(like that excuse for parallax) TP might work but I'm doubting she could affect him outside of that

Wolverine was only able to get close due to PIS, which is turned off in the battle forums. She one shotted him in the med lab, and pinned him to the ceiling of her house while she mentally fought Xavier. Outside of PIS and inner struggle there is no reason to believe his only power gave him the strength to not be tossed away like before.

yeah Phoenix might win.

The deeper concious of The Phoenix, Jean, loved Wolverine in a way. This is the incarnation that asked Wolverine to kill her. When fans try to argue that Wolverine could get through her powers due to regeneration and not some form of influence from the deeper side of The Phoenix, Jean, I call bullshit.

@lordofallhumans: ok, but what about his heat vision? Can't he just zap her?

Phoenix gets into his mind with 30 secs prep and makes him zap himself.

Jean stopped loads of bullets without even looking at them and can disintegrate anything with a thought. Clark shouldn't be able to blitz her, and if she realises that he's physically vastly superior to her quickly enough and turns him to dust straight away then she wins with ease. Otherwise, she doesn't react fast enough and Clark punches her head off. This is a very all r nothing fight, in my opinion. They can both kill the other almost instantly, it just depends on who does so first.

She has prep, telepathy, force fields, can manipulate several tons of matter, a disintegration wave and can catch speeding missiles without physically seeing them. People keep talking about the bullets, but missiles that catch up with jets are much faster. His speed and strength are irrelevant. He dies.

@pr0d1gy: but it's not only the pheonix who has prep, and I thought you couldn't attack the other till prep time ends?

Mind raped then turned into dust.

Phoenix.