The Mountain (GoT) vs Gimli (LotR)

Both books and movies/tv feats are valid.

They fight in a standard arena.

Gimli with a battle axe, The Mountain with a two-handed greatsword.

No throwing axes for Gimli and no shield for The Mountain.

Who would win and why?

Gimli.

Don't know much about the mountain, so I'm just gonna pick my favorite and say Gimli.

"The Mountain" is a huge knight, said to be the largest man in westeros(close to 8 feet tall).

He's so strong he beheaded a horse in 1 hit.

Gimli has taken on multiple uruk-hai who are about the height of mountai. And just as strong. My vote is gimli.

@killerwasp: @nerdchore:

Uruk-hai are stated to be 6,1 - 6,2

just saying...

and?

@killerwasp: 8 > 6

Gimli. The Mountain isn't used to fighting skilled tiny people.

Gimli is used to fighting legitimate superhumans who are equal or stronger than The Mountain. Hell, even Gimli vs Aragorn is debatable, and Aragorn would make mincemeat out of The Mountain.

@annoyedimmortalspirit: Gimli defeated multiple of them anyway? so size doesnt always = win. ^^ So Gimli > The Mountain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k72rrPUEDdk#t=66 <---- winning move

In the battle of blackwater, The Hound was cutting people in half in one hit(They were wearing armour as well). The Mountain is stated to be stronger than The Hound so I have no doubt that The Mountain will cut Gimli in to.

The Mountain, can't wait to see his upcoming fight

The Mountain is big but he's not especially skilled. He didn't do very well against the Viper who was much faster than him and exploited his rage. Gimli is freakishly small for a Westerosi warrior, and deceptively fast. I don't think the Mountain could get a clean hit on him.

@truehobgoblin: *Two, and strength isn't much of a factor as much as skill is.

@annoyedimmortalspirit: height is nothing. Gimli is used to defeating people 2-3 times bigger than him and just as skilled.

@metaljimmor: Be careful because we're getting into spoilers, but what you're saying about their fight is incorrect. Also, Gimli uses an axe, and is much smaller than Oberyn. The reach Oberyn had with his spear (which was not a normal spear...but spoilers) was much more than what Gimli would be able to achieve, and that paired with his size, and Gimli has no chance of replicating that fight. Not to mention that...well, spoilers.

@jaken7:

OP says book versions. People should probably avoid places where the book is being discussed if they don't want the show spoiled, but that's just me.

What I said wasn't incorrect. The Mountain isn't an impressive fighter because of his skill, he's impressive because he's a freakish giant with inhuman strength and resilience.

Oberyn used a spear to give him the edge in reach, true, but he was also faster than the Mountain. Otherwise he wouldn't have been able to keep his distance. Like Tyrion said, the spear is not a dueling weapon. The reason for that is while it gives good reach it's easy for a decent swordsman to knock the blade aside and get in where the spear user is helpless. Oberyn was a faster, more skilled fighter using a weapon intended to compensate for his disadvantages.

Gimli doesn't need to replicate that feat exactly though. Dwarves are naturally very strong for their size and boast superhuman stamina and resilience. He's also much faster than you'd expect for someone so short. Fighting Gimli will be unlike fighting anyone else in Westeros, and if Gimli gets in close the Mountain will probably lose his leg.

I wonder how Tyrion Lannister vs Gimli would go down...

@nerdchore: i was just correcting a mistake.

I also think that height IS an important factor, range difference shouldn't be ignored in a duel.

Since they are both used in fighting medium sized opponents(around 6ft) on the battlefield, this fight would be atypical for both of them.

---

(don't get me wrong i love Gimli and dwarves in general)

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

Gimli also deals with 15-20 foot tall trolls.

trolls are between 8 and 10 ft tall http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Trolls

also, not by himself alone...

EDIT: the cave-trolls are bigger tho (from 11 to19ft)

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

Just saying. 8 feet tall isn't overly impressive to Gimli.

Those trolls also looked a fair bit over 10 feet. *Strokes beard* Not that it matters. A troll is still far larger than the Mountain in sheer mass.

@metaljimmor: yes, you are right.

But you see that they had to fight all together to kill him, Gimli alone would've died

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that Gimli has done battle with things way above the Mountain's paygrade. The Mountain's height won't be anything especially new for Gimli to deal with, so the advantage of Gimli having never battled something as tall as the Mountain isn't there.

It's also worth noting that it wasn't the Fellowship vs a troll. It was the Fellowship vs a troll and a large band of orcs.

The one who killed 43.

Yea i agree with that.

However just because he fought trolls and orcs it doesn't mean he know how to fight a giant "intelligent" human knight.

It would be a different type of opponent for both of them

Gregor isn't especially skilled, there is not a chance that Oberyn could make an utter fool of Gimli the way he did with Gregor. Killing 43 Uuk Hai and Orc trumps anything that Gregor has done. His strength [crushing a man's head in one hand] is nothing Gimli has not encountered before.

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

Eeeeeh. Even in quotations describing the Mountain as intelligent is stretching it a bit. lol

Gimli has seen things far bigger than the Mountain and has fought them before. The Mountain's size won't intimidate him, and Gimli is use to going for the legs/groin anyway.

The Mountain has never battled a dwarf that can actually fight before. He likely won't even take Gimli seriously at the start. Even if he does he has to basically bend over or hold his sword upside down to reasonably block or parry Gimli's attacks. He'll have to fight in a completely unnatural manner, like trying to swordfight with a dog. The Mountain is easily aggravated and gets sloppy when he gets angry, and I doubt anything in the Seven Kingdoms would enrage him more than not being able to kill a measly dwarf in single combat.

Gimli also, again, isn't a normal small person. He has unnatural strength for his size and has great resilience. He was also able to keep up with Legolas' kill streak in the books, which means he was killing people just as quickly as a super strong, super agile elf with superhuman hearing and flawless accuracy with a bow. Gimli is incredibly skilled, fast, and strong. Nothing on Westeros comes close to one of Tolkien's dwarves.

@metaljimmor: lol he is still smarter than trolls and orcs.

i never said Gimli would be intimidated by The Mountain, just that it would be an unusual opponent for him.

Think about this... Gimli doesn't usually fight humans, even if he does, i doubt he ever fought a 1 properly trained knight. Even if he did however, he never fought a 8ft tall knight.

so it would be a different type of opponent for Gimli anyway, one that he has no experience about, and that is trained in 1vs1 duels.

---

Also, 1 hit from The Mountain's greatsword and it would be over for anybody, even a Tolkien's dwarf.

The Mountain on the other hand wear a superheavy armor so thick that regular men could never fight in it, so he could take a few hits from Gimli.

Gilmi has his advantages just like The Mountain has his own... i think it would be a tough battle for both of them.

The Mountain isn't a random troll or orc fodder, he is one of the most feared fighters in Westeros. He is being highly underrated here. This would be an awesome fight and could truly go either way, as one hit from Gregor could end it.

I see gimly taking a slim majority.

He is faster more skilled but one single hit form gregor and he's down.

The mountain isn't slow,he's slower, huge difference.His armor is incredibly good, And i can't see gimly wounding him seriously with one hit.

...ends in sex

Considering Gimly is as short as he is, he could just pull the same move he did on the berzerker during the Helm's Deep fight. As for the Mountain's size, well the likes of Azog and Blog appear to be similar, so it's not unheard of for Dwarves to fight people of that size. In regards to the armor, I think Gimli has the edge with his choice of weapon; a big heavy axe. Both of them are heavily armored, the great sword may have the same punch, but its much bigger, more cumbersome and the Mountain will be slower because of it. And due to the difference in size, Glimi doesnt have to swing in weird angles to take off or simply break one of the Mountain's legs.

Finally there is a strength to size ratio to consider, Glimi is only 1.5 meters tall (or there about) but he weighs more and is stronger than a normal human. So this is my pick:

@outside_85 said:

Considering Gimly is as short as he is, he could just pull the same move he did on the berzerker during the Helm's Deep fight. As for the Mountain's size, well the likes of Azog and Blog appear to be similar, so it's not unheard of for Dwarves to fight people of that size. In regards to the armor, I think Gimli has the edge with his choice of weapon; a big heavy axe. Both of them are heavily armored, the great sword may have the same punch, but its much bigger, more cumbersome and the Mountain will be slower because of it. And due to the difference in size, Glimi doesnt have to swing in weird angles to take off or simply break one of the Mountain's legs.

Finally there is a strength to size ratio to consider, Glimi is only 1.5 meters tall (or there about) but he weighs more and is stronger than a normal human. So this is my pick:

Basically this for me too. The Mountain is too cumbersome and slow in combat whereas Gimli has a lot more manoeuvrability, skill and a powerful weapon to boot. Though I'll see how The Mountain's Fight with Oberyn goes down in the next GoT episode to see if my mind will be changed. But thus far, Gimli has the same advantages The Mountain does plus extra vital edges to boot too.

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

Not really that unusual. Gimli has battled orcs that range from the size of a hobbit to the size of a man most of his life, and when he switched to uruk-hai who are taller than a man he had no issue at all adapting. The only thing the Mountain has that is especially unique is his Westerosi armor. Other than that the Mountain is an exceptionally tall man. While I can't prove he's ever faced a man, I can't imagine he'd feel especially out of place facing one. He did travel with Aragorn and Boromir and fought in many battles by their side, so at least he knows how a human swordsman operates.

In the end Gimli always fights opponents who have a considerable height and reach advantage. Ranging from fighting normal orcs to large trolls. He always goes for the legs or groin to knock the enemy off balance and uses their height against them. It's how a dwarf does things. The Mountain has never battled someone who comes up to his knee before. At least no one that comes up to his knee and can pose a serious threat. Everything about the Mountain's sword style would be off balance because of the awkward angle and difficulty in defending his legs. Gimli would just be fighting the same way he always has.

Also, it's unfair to say the Mountain is smarter than all orcs. There are quite a few highly intelligent orcs in the series. They lead Sauron's armies and formed their own kingdoms. Orcs are just as intelligent as humans are.

And finally, I should point out standard equipment for Gimli includes his throwing axes. So he has a ranged option that the Mountain is sorely lacking.

@metaljimmor: Orcs are more stupid in every fictional universe ever created, including Tolkiens i'm sure of this. They even say that Uruk-hai are smarter than Orcs, and Uruk-hai are close to humans in intelligence but not equal.

Also Uruk-hai were created with magic and had little to no experience in war, or life in general... they can barely speak. You can't say that fighting a Uruk-hai is similar to fighting a human knight, nope.

The Mountain always fought smaller people too, so his fighting style is already oriented in fighting smaller opponents. The angle of his sword would be the same, maybe a little lower than usual but he always fought people attacking from lower.

EDIT: actually The Mountain fights with a shield and uses the greatsword with only 1 hand so he could block the axes, but i took the shield out of the fight. No throwing axes for Gimli too, it must be a fair duel.

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

Orcs in the Warcraft universe have the same intelligence as the human races. So no, not every fictional universe ever.

There is a massive difference between fighting someone who comes up to your chest and fighting someone who comes up to your knees. It's not even remotely comparable.

@metaljimmor: ha.. ha.. Orcs are still dumber than humans, they are in Tolkien's universe anyway so that's the point.

The knee / chest thing is wrong. because that would require average humans to be more that twice as tall as dwarves... and that is not the case.

Dwarves are around 4.5 feet tall, so they would come at least to his belly, while normal people on his chest, not so different, plus he already faced short people before.. considering he fought wars. Short humans are even more similar to dwarves and they had even less of a chance against him considering his reach advantage.

Anyway think what you will, i know them both pretty well and i think they would be equally unfamiliar fighting each others

Gimli wins this for sure. It might be a tough fight but the dwarf has taken down more impressive opponents before, and is much more physically capable than most people assume.

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

Thing is, the Mountain isn't a prize for intelligence either, and we've seen orcs who exhibit human level cunning before. Especially in the Hobbit movies. Azog comes off as much more intelligent than the Mountain is. There's also multitudes of orc battle commanders. While the average orc may be unintelligent, that doesn't mean every orc ever is a blithering idiot.

You're also playing up his status as a knight a bit much. The Mountain is a knight yes, but that doesn't mean he is automatically a super skilled combatant. He was made a knight because of his freakish size that awarded him special advantages over normal men. It really doesn't speak much of his skill as a fighter.

There is still a large difference between people at chest level and people at belly level. And there is a stupendous difference between a 5 foot tall man and a 4.5 foot tall dwarf. Man might be close in height, but the dwarf is just as strong, if not stronger, than a 6+ foot tall man. The Mountain's usual reaction to extremely short men was no doubt "Swing sword and one hit kill them" due to his vastly superior reach and sheer strength. It won't be that easy with a dwarf who is quick on his feet, tremendously skilled even by dwarf standards, and is strong enough to parry the Mountain's blows.

Not to mention a claymore doesn't lend itself well to doing a lot of low blows. The Mountain will be limited to downward hacking motions that are highly telegraphed and easily avoided. Or he'll be coming in with low swings meant to target the leg. The Mountain is denied well over half of his repertoire of sword techniques due to Gimli's height alone. The Mountain will have to block his legs far more than he would dealing with any normal human fighter, and that can be awkward to deal with when your thighs are at mid-level for your opponent.

And lets not forget that the Mountain's one and only showing against a skilled opponent didn't go well at all. When met with an unorthodox combat style he wasn't use to dealing with he got frustrated, lost his temper, and ultimately was struck multiple times without landing a single blow on his opponent. Unlike the Prince of Dorne however, Gimli won't stop fighting to talk about justice. He'll end it with a decapitation when the Mountain is down.

Gimli

Everyone is overrating The Mountain, yes he's bigger and probably stronger too. But he's not very skillful, he's a brute. Gimli is one of finest fighters in Middle Earth, The Mountain is definitely not one of Westeros's.

nah i honestly think that people are underestimating him, infact almost everyone is saying that Gimli would win because he killed lots of orcs!!

I respectfully disagree with them, if you know the character well enough you would never compare him to an orc, neither in strenght, size, experience, skill, fighting style, equipment nor intellect. Nothing basically.

Lol, really? Gimli kicks his ass.

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

I wasn't implying The Mountain was anything like an orc. I agree, he's a distinctly un-orclike enemy for Gimli. But seriously, the mountain is dumb as a rock (lol). I think he'll have the edge in raw strength, but not in tactics, maneuverability or any number of other things. The point someone made earlier about fighting styles is crucial, Gimli can fight at his best, the mountain cannot because of the awkward, low strikes he'd have to make with his sword. Whereas Gimli's main tactic is "aim low" something which would be quite effective in this fight.

@gjones: that's fine but he's not an idiot either, like i said he is being underestimated here.

you say The Mountain could not fight good because Gimli is short, but he's clearly already used to fight from high to low, using his bigger size as an advantage.

Who do you think would be attacking first, and who would be on the defensive? be honest. Gilmi would've to defend right from the start, and it's not like he could one-shot The Mountain like he can, so it would be really tough for him to win here...

---

IMO it's a 50/50. The Mountain has the advantage in this fight, but he could lose by underestimating Gimli and i can see that happening.

@annoyedimmortalspirit:

I think you're right that the mountain could underestimate Gimli, which would make this a lot less of a close fight. I think it's going to be close, but Gimli should attack first, as he's quicker on his feet. If he can get inside his guard, then the mountain will really struggle. Armour is going to play a part, Gimli has feats for hurting armoured enemies, but nothing as heavily armored as the mountain in full plate. Gimli has good armour, but I imagine the mountain (With a two-handed sword) would get through it easily. That being said, in Fellowship Gimli takes a direct hit from the cave troll. So durability is pretty high. Also, Gimli bench pressed 2 wargs and their rider, so he's not weak himself, a decent hit to the back of the knee and then it's Gimli all the way.

@annoyedimmortalspirit: orcs and urak-hai might not be as smart or as exp. but goblins of middle earth are.