The Most Dangerous Tournament: NickZ/YJ/Cadence vs Mr_I/Esquire

@nickzambuto said:

@Esquire said:

@nickzambuto: ...What does the plot summary have to do with camo?

That wasn't a plot summary. That was a brief description of Ocelot's intelligence. He's made fools of the government numerous times. He's made fools of the guys who make fools of the government. Hell, he's even made fools of the organization that secretly runs the planet from behind the scenes.

Ohhhhhhh. So you're saying he's smart enough to dig a good-sized hole in the ground for my team to fall into? /troll

@Esquire said:

@nickzambuto said:

@Esquire said:

@nickzambuto: ...What does the plot summary have to do with camo?

That wasn't a plot summary. That was a brief description of Ocelot's intelligence. He's made fools of the government numerous times. He's made fools of the guys who make fools of the government. Hell, he's even made fools of the organization that secretly runs the planet from behind the scenes.

Ohhhhhhh. So you're saying he's smart enough to dig a good-sized hole in the ground for my team to fall into? /troll

That was YJ's strategy. He dropped out so it is now void.

Ocelot would come up with a much better idea.

EDIT: In fact, the posts have been deleted, so that never even happened at all.

@nickzambuto: I know, I'm just trolling you. I'm sure you'll come up with a halfway decent way to use Ocelot.

@nickzambuto: @YoungJustice: @CadenceV2:

I'm not downplaying Taskmaster at all. You're just saying that he can jump around and tactically disarm all four of our guys without effort, just like that.
No, he can't do that.

No, what I am presenting is all of his options.

What? How does that work? OP states we start 5 miles apart, from there we just have to find each other. Since we're using stealth and you're jumping around the trees, we'll spot you before you spot us, and Hawkeye can easily place an arrow inside Taskmaster's skull from behind without him even seeing it coming.

You again debate like it's just him alone 4 on 1, Bucky is following in a stealth position. And it was proven that he has reacted without for warning.

Yes, Taskmaster can block with the shield (if he sees the attack coming that is, which he won't), but if the shield is protecting his torso, what's protecting his back? Or his side? Or how about his head? The shield doesn't block Taskmaster's entire body. He can dodge for a bit, but eventually, with four marksman of this caliber all aiming for him in perfect unison, something will slip through.

Also your forces are divided at least one has to break off and deal with Bucky or all of them get picked off. Ultimate Hawkeye has Superhuman accuracy but to say no one with Taskmaster's skill set & 616 Spiderman's speed and agility can't react/dodge is speculative and not supported by comics.

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

I'm not downplaying Taskmaster at all. You're just saying that he can jump around and tactically disarm all four of our guys without effort, just like that.
No, he can't do that.

No what I am presenting is all of his options.

One of which won't work.

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

What? How does that work? OP states we start 5 miles apart, from there we just have to find each other. Since we're using stealth and you're jumping around the trees, we'll spot you before you spot us, and Hawkeye can easily place an arrow inside Taskmaster's skull from behind without him even seeing it coming.

You agin

......What?

@nickzambuto: And which option would that be.

I'm sorry my strategy was horrible, but I was trying to come up with something quick, since we apparently don't have rope in the first round, which was apart of my actual debate. Although, half the reason I couldn't debate Revolver,was because I didn't know you where allowed to debate Liquid Ocelot. So I should be fine now, debate up 4:00 Mountain Time.

So this is my full debate.

Okay, so first I want to get the famous gun spinning trick out the way.

Now you see that he is easily killing about 10 bees on one spin.

How would it help?

Not at all, unless one of you has bees or other flying insects in your arsenal.

Just wanted to get that out the way.

So, when it comes time to fight, this is what Ocelot will not most likely do.

Here are some feats for Ocelot.

Ocelot (I am almost 100% sure on purpose) shot Solid Snake in the eye, without even looking at him, while falling.

Then again I am not 100% on this, it could have just been a slip of the finger, but why wouldn't he, Ocelot stood and watched him get tortured, I would highly doubt that he didn't do this out of spite.

Here you see Ocelot taking down military soldiers, easily at that, within around a 5 second span.

He also does this with one clip, and one revolver, so he could double that in this match since he has 2.

Will have to make rest of debate later. Sorry for delay.

@YoungJustice said:

So this is my full debate.

Okay, so first I want to get the famous gun spinning trick out the way.

Now you see that he is easily killing about 10 bees on one spin.

How would it help?

Not at all, unless one of you has bees or other flying insects in your arsenal.

Just wanted to get that out the way.

So, when it comes time to fight, this is what Ocelot will not most likely do.

Here are some feats for Ocelot.

Ocelot (I am almost 100% sure on purpose) shot Solid Snake in the eye, without even looking at him, while falling.

Then again I am not 100% on this, it could have just been a slip of the finger, but why wouldn't he, Ocelot stood and watched him get tortured, I would highly doubt that he didn't do this out of spite.

Here you see Ocelot taking down military soldiers, easily at that, within around a 5 second span.

He also does this with one clip, and one revolver, so he could double that in this match since he has 2.

Will have to make rest of debate later. Sorry for delay.

1) That's not Solid Snake

2) It wasn't on purpose

3) The Marine video was in slow motion. Ocelot actually killed those soldiers in about a milisecond, considering none of them even had time to react

4) The gun spinning, believe it or not, is actually a great testament to Ocelot's gun skill, I can go more in depth but I was saving that for the next round

5) Liquid Ocelot = Revolver Ocelot, so of course we can debate for him

@nickzambuto: @YoungJustice:

He also does this with one clip, and one revolver, so he could double that in this match since he has 2.

So Ocelot has both of his revolvers, well that means Snake is unarmed.

Since your first plan of action was to engage Taskmaster, Bucky can easily sneak up on your team. Having already upstaged wolverine in a game of hide & seek. Or lunch some some grenades to disturb the environment forcing them out.

With your best chance against Taskmaster being Ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Black Widow. Taskmaster will use his photographic reflexes to dodge, block, & attack (w/shield, sword, claws & web). Incapacitating black widow in the least or disarm both (w/ web, shield). Setting himself up to get in close for a kill shot. But only moving in close when he has eliminated your means of attack (ammo/weapons) or a teammate. This is how he would take the two. Also this is within his character to do so.

Now for your team to avoid being picked off 1 by 1. Snake & Ocelot will have to take on Bucky. If they can find him.

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@nickzambuto: @YoungJustice:

He also does this with one clip, and one revolver, so he could double that in this match since he has 2.

So Ocelot has both of his revolvers, well that means Snake is unarmed.

Since your first plan of action was to engage Taskmaster, Bucky can easily sneak up on your team. Having already upstaged wolverine in a game of hide & seek. Or lunch some some grenades to disturb the environment forcing them out.

With your best chance against Taskmaster being Ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Black Widow. Taskmaster will use his photographic reflexes to dodge, block, & attack (w/shield, sword, claws & web). Incapacitating black widow in the least or disarm both (w/ web, shield). Setting himself up to get in close for a kill shot. But only moving in close when he has eliminated your means of attack (ammo/weapons) or a teammate. This is how he would take the two. Also this is within his character to do so.

Now for your team to avoid being picked off 1 by 1. Snake & Ocelot will have to take on Bucky. If they can find him.

Both Ocelot and Black Widow have duel weapons, so Snake will be armed either way. I directly stated as much in my post.

And since Taskmaster doesn't have any precog, all the reflexes in the world won't save him from an arrow to the back of the head.

Then it's Bucky vs all four of us. He still has no idea where we are though, so it's only a matter of time until our four stealth experts spot him, and eliminate him in the same way we did Tasky.

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@nickzambuto: And which option would that be.

Speedblitzing us all and taking away all our weapons.

@nickzambuto: You stated Ocelot will offer up his weapon.

How would they be behind him to attack when Bucky is holding that position unseen?

Precog is not all that is required the ability to dodge or block is also necessary. Also reflexes are the preventive measure to keep an arrow from the back of his head.

I never said Taskmaster will speedblitz your whole team, he!! when we were debating how Taskmaster would hold his own I specifically said he would keep his distance and use cover. But this is no longer the debate & you have failed to switch gears.

Here is the misunderstanding. Your team's choices are 4 vs Taskmaster with Bucky eliminating your team, or 2 vs 1 where strength is divided making numbers are no longer in your favor and our defences proving too great for your team's attacks. Giving our the ability to outlast the prey like true hunters.

You stated Ocelot will offer up his weapon.

No. Go back to my first post. I said, quote,

"Both Ocelot and Widow are armed with duel weapons; whoever's willing can just hand one off to Snake so that he's armed, and then we can carry on."

How would they be behind him to attack when Bucky is holding that position unseen?

We're on ground level crawling along the dirt while you two are up in the trees. The second we see Taskmaster jumping around, Hawkeye will launch an arrow, and I seriously doubt he'll miss.

Stealth skill doesn't mean Bucky is a good tracker. He's not going to see our guys unless he has some tracking feats, not stealth. When was the last time Bucky snuck up on an someone who's invisible? Snake did that a couple times.

Precog is not all that is requires the ability to dodge or block. Also reflexes are the preventive measure to keep an arrow from the back of his head.

That doesn't make sense. How is Taskmaster even supposed to know he's been shot at? Are you saying he can react to the femto second Flash-style and dodge the arrow as he feels it graze his skin?

The physical contact with the arrow will be Taskmaster's only way of knowing he's been shot at. Unless he has eyes on the back/sides of his head. Or has spider sense.

Here is the misunderstanding. Your team's choices are 4 vs Taskmaster with Bucky eliminating your team, or 2 vs 1 where strength is divided making numbers are no longer in your favor and our defences proving too great for your team's attacks. Giving our the ability to outlast the prey like true hunters.

How does making this 2 vs 1 eliminate our number advantage?

Like I already explained, if Taskmaster develops precog abilities and manages to dodge the arrow, we can still win thanks to numbers. Guys like Captain America and Bucky can still challenge Taskmaster, even though he's already studied their style (the scans you posted prove this)

With her enhancements making her metahuman, top tier fighting skill, not to mention the fact that Taskmaster has never studied her before, Ultimate Black Widow is more than capable of holding her own against Tasky while Hawkeye pops him from behind.

Same goes for Bucky, Snake can fight evenly with him while Ocelot takes him out.

Ok, this is getting a little longwinded. If you have anything left to say go ahead, but we should probably start voting soon.

@Fetts

@Sherlock

@nickthedevil

Fellow tourney members,

@Floopay

@progenitor

@god_spawn

@Flopsop200

Other people who might be interested in voting, (from now on god_spawn, I'm linking you to all my matches until you admit I'm up and beyond a 4)

I'm sorry if this is just me going off my horrid memory, but that's not Snake. Who was it then? That's why I said he might have done it on purpose out of spite, also, I didn't know the marine vid was slowed. I will have to edit. Liquid had that whole half and half thing going on, didn't know if this was a stick to that version tourney.

It's revealed at the end of MGS4 that Liquid never really took over. Ocelot only pretended so he could trick the Patriots. And that was Big Boss, Naked Snake. Not Solid Snake. C'mon man, basic MGS knowledge that Big Boss was the guy in 3.

@nickzambuto:

We're on ground level crawling along the dirt while you two are up in the trees. The second we see Taskmaster jumping around, Hawkeye will launch an arrow, and I seriously doubt he'll miss.
Stealth skill doesn't mean Bucky is a good tracker. He's not going to see our guys unless he has some tracking feats, not stealth. When was the last time Bucky snuck up on an someone who's invisible? Snake did that a couple times.

Bucky is ground level. Your doubt need to be supported by scans of him tagging more than cannon fodder.

Seeing as they plan on attacking just as one target gets in sight makes it easy for Bucky to spot them forcing you out.

That doesn't make sense. How is Taskmaster even supposed to know he's been shot at? Are you saying he can react to the femto second Flash-style and dodge the arrow as he feels it graze his skin?

Knew I was missing something Edited. First arrows are not silent you make them out to be, (hard to detect).

FTR I have posted this scan. Either you accept it or not.

But that flash scan is not relevant because I never made a likeness to Flash involving Taskmaster.

The physical contact with the arrow will be Taskmaster's only way of knowing he's been shot at. Unless he has eyes on the back/sides of his head. Or has spider sense.

By this time the above scan answers all your doubt.

How does making this 2 vs 1 eliminate our number advantage?
Like I already explained, if Taskmaster develops precog abilities and manages to dodge the arrow, we can still win thanks to numbers. Guys like Captain America and Bucky can still challenge Taskmaster, even though he's already studied their style (the scans you posted prove this)
With her enhancements making her metahuman, top tier fighting skill, not to mention the fact that Taskmaster has never studied her before, Ultimate Black Widow is more than capable of holding her own against Tasky while Hawkeye pops him from behind.
Same goes for Bucky, Snake can fight evenly with him while Ocelot takes him out.
Ok, this is getting a little longwinded. If you have anything left to say go ahead, but we should probably start voting soon.

Taskmaster has already shown the ability to face two opponents of skill without being at a disadvantage. All the scans prove that.

And Bucky has shown the same skill level.

It only takes minutes of fighting for Taskmaster to learn the necessary skills of a style.

Never said she was incapable to hold her own, however if hit by his equipment he can KO her. (Scan Above)

I didn't play MGS4, and I played MGS3 when it first came out. Don't remember it much.

@nickzambuto: @Mr_Ingenuity: @CadenceV2@Esquire

Very good points nick, clearly the number advantage and Taskmaster's choice in fashion is going to make him stick out like a sore thumb and be easily detected. You also have the numbers advantage and top tier marksman. Something hard to defend against for anyone.

Mr_Ingenuity also you make a lot of good points. Catching a bullet is a lot more impressive than dodging it, especially when not aware of the target until moments beforehand. You have a lot of scans proving points, and Taskmaster has always been one of Marvel's greatest fighters, and probably their greatest street leveler (if I may be so bold).

However, I don't think a bullet or an arrow is very quiet within the forest, and with all the cover provided, it's not exactly going to be difficult to dodge gunfire or arrows. Essentially, you have to surround him on four sides, and even then you'd have to be within mid-range to get him into a position where he can't use cover to his advantage, and then you'd be open for speed blitz. So tactically I think Mr_Ingenuity's point on Task vs. your marksman is actually very sound. Additionally, Task will stick out like a sore thumb in his outfit, which would make it hard to spot Bucky when your eyes are drawn to Task, making Esquire's post on Bucky a lot more sound.

Now, we have 4 superb marksman still, and that's not an easy thing to go against for anyone. Even Taskmaster has his limits, and Bucky too.

At the end of the day, it's a good fight and you both debated very well. But I think Taskmaster and Bucky had much more scans proving their ability to survive, and their superiority over mid and close range combat.

I give this to @Mr_Ingenuity and @Esquire

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Yeah, dropping this.

Wasnt feeling this debate from the start.

I for one loved the debate and had a great time.

@nickzambuto said:

I for one loved the debate and had a great time.

Looks like we agree. :P

@nickzambuto: Sry I been working 2 Jobs and had no time. Be on tommorow with more Scans for BW at least.

Bump. Vote please.(•‿•)

@YoungJustice said:

Yeah, dropping this.

Wasnt feeling this debate from the start.

wut?

Vote for Team 2. Mr_i and esquire

Nothing of your concern. Who needed to know, knows what.

2 jobs? I just thought you had the mother of all hangovers.

Because, bump.

@Samimista

I'm desperate for votes here. If you get the time, feel free to look through the thread and vote on who you think debated best :P

@Super_SoldierXII

btw, skim through the thread for a taste of what Punisher is in for in our upcoming match ;D

@PokemonDefender said:

@YoungJustice said:

Yeah, dropping this.

Wasnt feeling this debate from the start.

wut?

Vote for Team 2. Mr_i and esquire

Don't take this the wrong way, but I just wanna be clear; are you voting based on who debated best, or who you think would win? In tournaments, we tend to disregard personal opinion and only vote on who you think made the better arguments.

@nickzambuto: Sorry bro. I stay away from this section of the forums. xP

.

.......

Why do i keep getting a notification from this thread? I never commented...

@XImpossibruX said:

Why do i keep getting a notification from this thread? I never commented...

It's a sign.

That you should vote.

For me.

If I'm allowed to vote, I vote for the prey team.

@nickzambuto said:

@XImpossibruX said:

Why do i keep getting a notification from this thread? I never commented...

It's a sign.

That you should vote.

For me.

If i vote for you it's going to look biased since you said that.

But If I vote for the other team it looks like I'm doing to spite you.

....

@XImpossibruX said:

@nickzambuto said:

@XImpossibruX said:

Why do i keep getting a notification from this thread? I never commented...

It's a sign.

That you should vote.

For me.

If i vote for you it's going to look biased since you said that.

But If I vote for the other team it looks like I'm doing to spite you.

....

You could give a brief explanation of who wins.

@jobiwankenobi said:

If I'm allowed to vote, I vote for the prey team.

@nickzambuto: I'm guessing you have wrapped this up. ๏_๏

@Mr_Ingenuity said:

@nickzambuto: I'm guessing you have wrapped this up. ๏_๏

Once the other match finishes up we'll move on to round 2.