The Flash vs The Justice League

Flash can take hits from top-tier people like Superman, especially if they're not bloodlusted. He's not as weak as some may think.

Flash solos the league.

@willpayton: Going by statements and Facts, Flash should logically never be hit.

Yea except all those times he's been hit constantly, flash fans are suffering from confirmation bias

He's also beaten people who are certified team breakers, people who have personally taken out the league's supposed heavy hitters. Flash is the only leaguer to solo AMAZO AFAIK, a character that regularly wrecks the JL. Of the people here, he's already demonstrated that he can leave superman in his dust and speed steal both Supes and Diana from literally hundreds of miles away.

He can speed steal straight from people's brains, and has TP resistance in the form of speed mind and generally being faster than anyone can react to. He has the durability to tank hundreds of hits that leave people like wonder woman, Hal Jordan, and Superman reeling. He takes hits from Mongul, the guy that outright rolled wonder woman in "For the Man Who Has Everything", and that was WW using the entire weapons arsenal of the FoS. She got stomped. Flash beat a guy who regularly makes Superman go 100% to only sort of beat, and he did it with barely any effort, and only shortly after acuiring the speed force.

Flash has been shown as stronger than GL as far back as the original Justice League runs.I haven't even bug to discuss Speed Force BFR or Time Travel either, both of which means he solos this team instantly.

This is not bias, this is outright using on panel feats that Wally has.

It's because he normally doesnt go all-out. Sometimes there's also a lot of PIS involved... since the writers have dug themselves into a hole with Flash being so over-powered. They need to make sure he loses regularly or does dumb things, or otherwise he'd make everyone else look bad and ineffective.

Like i said confirmation bias, you look at any facts that prove your point but turn a blind eye to all that disproves it. In New 52 The Dark Knight Flash was poisoned by Poison Ivy and Batman told him to run as fast as he can and don't stop or he would die if the toxin metabolized in him. Light travels around the Earth in 8 seconds yet hours later when Superman went to check up on the Flash who was still running he had only circled the earth 6 times...so yea.

Not to mention him loosing to the rogues, deathstroke, and getting tagged by supes on multiple occasions. So many of Flash's feats are straight up PIS its not funny; Flash obviously doesn't know mathematics if he's bragging about being hundred times faster than light yet everything except a few examples disprove it.

@arise7: lol shows you don't know what you're saying especially when you bring up New 52 Barry into your argument when it's Wally West

What is stopping him from doing to the league what he did to Inertia?

I'd imagine if he started with Superman, MMH and Wonder Woman, he could do it before they could think.

The other ones would be easy the second nanosecond.

@arise7: n52 has literally nothing to do with pre-52. It's an entirely different continuity of characters and canon. It's not even Wally -.-

Also, Deathstroke has broken Kyle Raynor's hand, while Raynor was wearing his ring, straight through Kyle's auto-shielding. I can even give you scans of Flash pounding on Deathstroke, but no one posts it because it's so much easier to low ball flash. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean his wins are PIS, especially when he has more than 20 years of consistent, high-end feats.

Superman has been slower than flash for years, especially considering that DC canonically retconned every race superman has ever beaten flash in.

if you're arguing that superman can tag flash, when flash is literally giving him charity, that's pretty poor form.

Furthermore, in case you didn't realize it, Flash's rouges are insanely powerful. Case and point:

That would be pied piper channeling the Anti-Life equation and destroying a planet.

So no, Flash's feats are not PIS. he has consistently been shown as a high-tier to super high-tier character since 1985, when he managed to face the Anti-Monitor. Wally has been repeatedly written as an extremely high tier character, and a few low balling feats means very little. Deathstroke? The guy repeatedly manages to show up high-tiers. He can out maneuver Supes, smack around Kyle Raynor, and generally just beat people he shouldn't be able to.

Do not use this cheat sheet. For like 15 years people swapped Wally's eyes around between Green and Blue post crisis. It was actually a plot point with Walter West. It's usually better to go by the costume. Wally doesn't have wings on his boots, his belt forms a V in the front, and usually his cowl covers his eyes and/or goes down his nose.

Also, as for the above post, Supeman never actually beat Flash in a race in comics. They either tied, had the race called off because of supervillain shenanigans, or Flash won and that's ignoring the "Those were for charity" retcon.

In character, flash should lose. After all, Deathstoke has put him down twice now whether you call it PIS or not....

However, logically, a bloodlust flash is unstoppable... he could solo the JLA with ease. I personally think he could even handle the jla and avengers both at the same time..Just no one can react to him...

My mistake. Still, Flash beats people far stronger than Deathstroke on every occasion. Deathstroke's a walking plot device who pulls stuff like breaking Kyle's hand through his GL Shield and taking his ring. Flash has been frequently shown to be one of the most dangerous and hard to deal with JL members through most post 90s JL titles, even if Superman and Batgod get the most success/screentime due to popularity.

@dredeuced: This is not the Shaw thread, look at the title.

@marlboroman: Man I got mixed up in my notifications. Changed the post, thanks for the correction.

And in one of those Deathstroke also took out Hawkman and Kyle Raynor, and the other one has the other offhand scan where Wally is also beating Deathstroke's face in.

In character Flash has still beaten mongul and several other high tiers, deathstroke magical PIS should never be used as an argument -.-

Flash could potentially take all of them without one of them having the chance to fight back I mean he's fought Zoom and spanned the earth about 40 times with Superman appearing motionless add in the IMP that can KO Superman and he has a very good chance. Except for the fact that Wally can never be shown to be that good when fighting any other more popular superheroes but when you look at his feats against Zoom and Professor Zoom you realise just how OP he is.

Wally has been capable of moving faster than the pre-crisis heroes could see (from Flash #150)

@dratini1331: That is wrong. The New-52 are the same characters of the Pre-52, they have just been rebooted. They are not different beings. Batman retained much of his canon.

@frozen: much of the characters' story and feats, especially in Flash and Superman, have been completely retconned. Almost every rouge has been upgraded, flash's powers have been modified, and his relationship with the speed force is completely different. The new timeline also overwrites the previous flash timeline by removing Wally West entirely (until later this year) and removing Jay Gerrick from the main Earth.

The new Flash changes his life from the point he met the JL onward, and even a little before that. While n52 didn't change much for some groups, like Batman or GL, other groups were changed drastically. Pre-52 Flash feats and n52 flash feats are not interchangeable or comparable

Pre-52 and New-52 feats are not interchangeable for characters (maybe for Batman). But they are the same characters, just with ret-conned origins and changes to the timeline. Batman also retained much of his Pre-52 canon .

@dredeuced: No problem dude!

@arise7: dude, you at the debating a totally different scenario. This is Flash with no morals trying to actually kill.

Meaning all those times he willingly chose not to use his full power do not apply to the op scenario.

@dratini1331: Thanks for the explanation because I just think he is too overpowered and the fanboyism makes it worse

@zhurong: sorry for giving you the impression of a fanboy :(

And i agree, wally is VERY overpowered

EDIT: Just realized I rehashed my original post, so I'm just gonna say yea, Flash be OP yo.

@dratini1331: That scan has to be the best counter to lowballing Flash I have seen. Nice work man.

Thanks ^_^ I hope, I'm bad at discerning sarcasm in posts :'(

Most of the rogues are actually weaker despite becoming metahumans. Cold's field is far less powerful, Madron's powers are really inconsistent, Mirror Master can't even control his mirror verse anymore. Heatwave's basically the exact same (guy who shoots fire). Trickster seems a lot more competent, though and Golden Glider actually has powers.

@dredeuced: yeah, maybe "upgraded" was the wrong word, more like "updated".

Fan wanked Flash is still fan wanked. He loses this.

Battle starts at 2:35 EST Flash defeats them all makes a sandwich, stops off in San Francisco for those pickles he likes, pursues his dream of becoming a figure skater, learns to mambo. Travels back in time to catch up on his latest Tivo episodes he missed, visits some ex girlfriends to trip them for calling him too fast!

Speed steels the world to paint on superman's face, steals wonder womens lasso and ties her feet up, and Runs to darksied to make his next move in the chess game they've been playing.

Time 2:36 EST

Can do all of this, was created in 1940 and is still too lame to make a movie about meanwhile, Rogue who was created in 1981 has been in three.

:(

How about you give a reason instead of just insulting the arguments people are making?

Like, imagine if I just went into one of your Ultimates or Ultimate X-men thread that you'd made these giant, detailed posts about and responded with "Fan wanked Ultimate Character X is still fan wanked. They lose." What would you think? I didn't say crap but insult the effort you put into your posts.

Superman flicks him. Come at me.

But in all seriousness, no one in JL can do absolutely anything against a character with femtosecond level reactions. Like.. He literally kills them several billion times before any of them can finish blinking. at all. The writers honestly have no idea how insane the numbers they are throwing around are, and ignore math 101....

If you take that out, I don't see why justice league can't put him down.

Woah, Woah, Woah, How exactly is a morals off flash not going to be the scariest thing ever?

Still Flash.

@dredeuced: what are you talking about? Everyone does that all the time now lol.

I don't. It's really inconsiderate. Someone who puts as much effort into their posts as you really shouldn't just dismiss everything and call it fanwank.

@dredeuced: alright, I will go ahead and debate you on this. Flash fans are the worst. I seen to many flash vs Phoenix, Celestials, Galactus, Odin, Ect, and his fans believe he wins!!!! Also, all this crap of Flash stated reaction speed, brilliance, Ect is over blown. Over 50% of Flash's showings have him tagged by guys nowhere near that speed or nowhere near that intelligent. By the CONSISTENT feats of Flash, blood lusted or not, he is no better than Superman.

Wally's got a great probability in winning.

Then you haven't actually read Flash and you don't know WHY he doesn't always operate at massive FTL speeds. There are reasons that he only does it in dire situations, which is why he's susceptible to being tagged.

"No better than Superman" Dude, Jay Garrick disabled Superman. Superman has been shown to be helpless against several of Wally's villains. You yourself didn't even realize what Kadabra could do because you don't read The Flash. How do you act like the authority on it then, with a straight face, tell me I'm a fan with a baseless opinion?

@cadencev2: It's called plot.There's a reason Flash doesn't go all out or else it be a very short and boring story.It's just like Zoom:He can kill Wally without even trying and exterminate most of DC Earth by himself if it weren't for his "makeeheroesssbetterrr".Wally overall is more powerful than Superman(Even AMAZO saw Wally as more of a threat than Superman)but of course Superman or Batman has to save the day over Flash because it's those 2.I'm pretty sure @dredeuced is tired of explaining this story over and over and I would agree with him.Most people think of Flash as the guy who just runs fast but he's a lot more than that and people don't or won't see that.

@reaverlation@dredeuced@flashgreatersigneveryone@beware_my_power

@cadencev2 These guys are all ultimate Flash Fanboys, there is literally no one in Marvel or DC they will agree can defeat Flash with morals off. Besides perhaps Zoom because he has done it on multiple occasions.

Any panel you show of flash being beaten they will accuse you of lowballing him, BUT they will expect you to accept every line written about him even if there are no feats to back it up, and special circumstances feats he preformed while power up'd as standard tactics.

Best to ignore them as there is literally never been a situation or panel of feats they have accepted would lead to Flash's defeat.

@the_dark_lot: You just don't know Flash and continue to bash him with your lack of knowledge and trolling against the character like others who don't about him.Funny how you say that because people who defend Flash to counter any attempt of lowballing or any out of context scan shown against him and post a higher feat,it's claimed PIS and accept only his lows.Of course you won't respond back and continue your anti-Flash path so it doesn't matter

It's not bashing a hero to think he can be defeated, every hero can be defeated. But it is fanboyism to think he can't. I think every hero in marvel and Dc has a person with counter abilities that can defeat someone else. Even my favorites, I don't have a favorite hero that I think can beat everyone if he wanted to. I'm not even bashing you or flash just giving an accurate portrayal of your stance on Flash as it's been seen on the vine to date.

If i really hated flash I would have started a thread with him vs a marvel hero that could curbstomb him morals off and there isn't a single thing flash could do to stop him, but I didn't. Because that's a spite thread I won't resort to.

any proof for you claim? or are you just salty? galactus can beat a morals off flash, odin can also , so can any celestial. morals off SS has a shot at it also. i say the flash wins not because of feats but because as a physics major, i know he shouldn't lose. but i have to remember since comicvine is predominately marvel fans i have to watch what i say before the marvel fanboys jump out with random false claims that they can't back up.

you made a claim. "these guys are ultimate flash fanboys, there is literally no one in marvel or dc they will agree can defeat flash" prove that this is true since you are now under the burden of proof

5 dollars on you can't

Just stop responding to him guys. He's some lying troll that's been banned a dozen times for posting the same garbage and attacking the same people on this forum over and over. He's got a vendetta and he's going to keep lying and keep attacking you as people until he gets flagged enough, which will happen in due time.

@the_dark_lot: But no has said Flash is undefeatable.People who defend Wally have gave great reasons to why he can win in his matches(that he can win mind you)but people just look for the bad in him.Like people have claimed Thor can beat Wally which is laughable or Hulk or Aquaman but when a case is made for Flash,people claim PIS or anything related to that.But there is a reason to why Wally wins because he has something that is overlooked by many:Speed.Wally has a huge speed advantage against everybody he faces and that's why he wins most of the time

not only that but with speed unfortunately comes power simple principle F = MA and flash can hit as or even harder than most heavy hitters if you do the math. and considering the fact that he can even see at such speeds he should have a stupid reaction time, but im not going to get down into what goes through my mind when flash is put against people are slower but "stronger" than the flash

@flashgreatersigneveryone: Well Wally hits with the force of a white dwarf star so that you say how hard he hits