The Flash vs Superman (Not what you think, Just a discussion)

Lets get down to it, we all know the Flash is faster than Superman when in earth. If you don't agree (I know some of you don't) then lets just assume so in this topic. Use any Flash you want. This is against current Superman.
 
Round 1
I want to ask who can do the following the farthest (I might add more, can you guys suggest some for others to discuss?).
 
1. Who can throw a baseball the farthest?
2. Who can hit a baseball the farthest?
3. Who can throw a light frisbee the farthest?
4. Who can sling a rock with a roped slingshot the farthest?
 
Round 2
Next (I will need help adding discussions for this one)
1. Who can punch with the most force? 
2. Who can carry 1 pound dumbells one at a time out of an apartment the fastest? 20 pound dumbells? [UPDATED @ 7PM, 12-06-2010]
 
I am always curious about this because from a scientific stand point, F = MA. So applying this to both of these characters (Muscle with good speed vs Extreme Speed) we can have a good discussion here. I hope I can learn more form you guys and see your insight on how this should all play out at a comic book point of view and a realistic point of view.

" @SlimJ87D:  the thing with most of the round one challenges is does the flash have to be standing still when he throws hits etc? since then hes not gonna be anywhere near as good. "

supers is way stronger 

" supers is way stronger  "

" @SlimJ87D:  even with with this much control of the spped force i still think hes comes second to superman in every field mostl because supes has huge power advantage and  where as the speed advantage to flash while relatively large isnt as big as the strenght loss to superman. "

superman 
an from a scientific stand point superman again

" @SlimJ87D:  in terms of momentum sure far less energy would be lost while the ball is moving via speed force manipulation. But supes has thrown asteroids etc massive distances  and a ball has far less mass, so in terms of energy lot via drag (having that much power to start with) isnt gonna put much of a dent in the balls movement due to all the stored energy it would have from supermans throw. Flashs balls has less drag more ,speed would be close but less power stored in ball from the individual accelerating the ball, supermans ball has nomal drag  but vastly higher power due to strenght from throw being transferred into ball. "

Not a battle.

" Not a battle. "

" @SlimJ87D:  So why put it in the battle forum? "

" @erik said:

" @SlimJ87D:  So why put it in the battle forum? "

Well Erik, to answer your question, I see topics like this all the time:   http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/fastest-there-is-hulk-screamed/584637/   I just thought it'd be appropriate here. The crowd here does a lot better analysis on things of this matter anywhere else. It just made sense for me to put it here. "

" @SlimJ87D: Flash isnt faster than Supes probably equal , if you've heard this is because he's beaten him n a race , it's becauise he can steal kinetic energy , therefor can drain Superman of his speed "

" @erik: ano :L , why is this in the battle forum , it's just a series of ridiculous events , like some sort of weird Olympics with the equipment they could find in their shed .  Why didn't you just ask who is faster and who is stronger ? rather than who can throw  a frisbee further  :L "

" @SlimJ87D:  read a comic , they have raced Superman 199# they have a tie  Superman 463# Wally beats him by inches. World's finest 198,199# Superman loses and  says Flash is the fastest   DC First - Jay steals his Kinetic energy like Wally has done before . "

I think a couple people said what I'm thinking. Supes is only a little slower but a LOT stronger. He can put almost as much speed behind any throw but a lot more force on top of that. It might get iffy with speed force tricks involved, but in straight competition I think Superman for most (unless there's something I don't know about physics...which is entirely possible). But throwing frisbees isn't about power, it's about finesse. Flash wins that one. :)

" I think a couple people said what I'm thinking. Supes is only a little slower but a LOT stronger. He can put almost as much speed behind any throw but a lot more force on top of that. It might get iffy with speed force tricks involved, but in straight competition I think Superman for most (unless there's something I don't know about physics...which is entirely possible). But throwing frisbees isn't about power, it's about finesse. Flash wins that one. :) "

" @SlimJ87D: if this is true  flash is the most powerful  of any  comic hero  weather dc  marvel "

 Round 1
I want to ask who can do the following the farthest (I might add more, can you guys suggest some for others to discuss?). 
  
1. Who can throw a baseball the farthest? : SUpes 
2. Who can hit a baseball the farthest? : Um depends...could be flash if he gives the baseball speed. Otherwise obvious supes
3. Who can throw a light frisbee the farthest? : flash
4. Who can sling a rock with a roped slingshot the farthest? : Flash if he gives the rock speed, otherwise obviously supes.
  
Round 2
Next (I will need help adding discussions for this one)
1. Who can punch with the most force?    : FLash

Physically, if Flash can make the ball leave his hand at a faster speed than Superman, the Flash wins. I'm pretty sure he can, even if he doesn't get a running start, because he's not just a faster runner. He can make his entire body, or any one part of it move faster at will because of the Speed Force.

" @SlimJ87D:  its not as simple as just plane momentum when you accelerate something yourself msicne its all about force transfer from yourself the ctaalyst of the reaction. Its very tough to narrow it down to an absolutenaswer. Since we know both flash and supermnas bodies are capable of handling extreem stresses and can manage feats far beyond we can actauly compare. But since superman has vast strenght in all his muscular groups hes a far mopre effiecient strat in terms of getting something accelerated due to his muscles being  in peak condition. Flas has the advantage as i mentioned beofre of virtualy zero drag on his ball thou. "

" @SlimJ87D:  yeha iam a forensics graduate i stuidied ballistics as a module. Your are correct about the drag being much higher on supermasn ball as i mentioned also, but the fact that ball is thrown with a greater amount of energy stored and moving at a higher velocity may in fact make it a dead heat or still win for superman.  Because the shear force of the throw while being sapped away via drag would take an aweful long time to cause a complet stop. Where as Flashes ball is moving slower and relying purely on its lack of drag till the speed force  stored in ball runs out.   It all comes down to this, do you think Flash can put enough speed force into the ball so that it can out travel a ball moving that will travel at a much higher velocity. Tbh i think its more likely for superman to take it on these grounds. "

" @SlimJ87D:  the thing about the paper cup is the force of throw affects it far less than a bal,l due to the cup being a bad shape for a projectile its drag and warp factor " warping of the projecticle in flight" due to its material are high therefor it will never travel far outside of a vaccum. But i get the example i just believ that superman is a far more effecient machine in order to apply force to something  he is generating his own force as well its not from an outside source " speed force in this case" so its the safest bet . "

" @lazystudent said:

" @SlimJ87D:  its not as simple as just plane momentum when you accelerate something yourself msicne its all about force transfer from yourself the ctaalyst of the reaction. Its very tough to narrow it down to an absolutenaswer. Since we know both flash and supermnas bodies are capable of handling extreem stresses and can manage feats far beyond we can actauly compare. But since superman has vast strenght in all his muscular groups hes a far mopre effiecient strat in terms of getting something accelerated due to his muscles being  in peak condition. Flas has the advantage as i mentioned beofre of virtualy zero drag on his ball thou. "

Sure, and when you say force transfer it's the amount of acceleration you can accelerate the ball the very moment it leaves you're hand. I believe with both of us understand the physics there. You sound like you've studied in the sciences as well.
 
Next is the force of drag we are both talking about.
 

The kinda big equation

F = .5 * Density of Air * (Velocity^2) * (Drag Coefficient of Air) * (Reference Area) 
This is also effected by the Re number which determines the Drag Coefficient of Air, lets just skip this to simplify things.

The equation simplified is very close to a parabola. 
 
Y = X^2 , X being velocity.
 
So from my understanding almost instantly when Superman throws the ball there is a really high jump in drag already. And the faster it goes a much more higher amount of force from drag will counter the ball.
 
I actually believe that the Flash  might be able to throw a baseball farther than Superman either in the atmosphere or in space.
 
Throwing the ball:
Note: This is my educated guess, I didn't have time to work out all the equations.
-In the atmosphere, it really depends on how long the ball will contain the speed force aura. This would be a toss up between both Flash and Superman. But for me, I'd give it to Flash due to drag resistance he'd be able to throw the ball farthest. But who can throw the ball with the higher top speed, I'd say Superman.
-In space the ball would be really light so it would definitely be who can throw it the fastest. Flash. "

" @SlimJ87D said:

" @lazystudent said:

" @SlimJ87D:  its not as simple as just plane momentum when you accelerate something yourself msicne its all about force transfer from yourself the ctaalyst of the reaction. Its very tough to narrow it down to an absolutenaswer. Since we know both flash and supermnas bodies are capable of handling extreem stresses and can manage feats far beyond we can actauly compare. But since superman has vast strenght in all his muscular groups hes a far mopre effiecient strat in terms of getting something accelerated due to his muscles being  in peak condition. Flas has the advantage as i mentioned beofre of virtualy zero drag on his ball thou. "

Sure, and when you say force transfer it's the amount of acceleration you can accelerate the ball the very moment it leaves you're hand. I believe with both of us understand the physics there. You sound like you've studied in the sciences as well.
 
Next is the force of drag we are both talking about.
 

The kinda big equation

F = .5 * Density of Air * (Velocity^2) * (Drag Coefficient of Air) * (Reference Area) 
This is also effected by the Re number which determines the Drag Coefficient of Air, lets just skip this to simplify things.

The equation simplified is very close to a parabola. 
 
Y = X^2 , X being velocity.
 
So from my understanding almost instantly when Superman throws the ball there is a really high jump in drag already. And the faster it goes a much more higher amount of force from drag will counter the ball.
 
I actually believe that the Flash  might be able to throw a baseball farther than Superman either in the atmosphere or in space.
 
Throwing the ball:
Note: This is my educated guess, I didn't have time to work out all the equations.
-In the atmosphere, it really depends on how long the ball will contain the speed force aura. This would be a toss up between both Flash and Superman. But for me, I'd give it to Flash due to drag resistance he'd be able to throw the ball farthest. But who can throw the ball with the higher top speed, I'd say Superman.
-In space the ball would be really light so it would definitely be who can throw it the fastest. Flash. "

wow you know you guys dont need to bring all the real life physics into this stuff...comics contradict the laws of physics and even logic... "

round 1 is a stelemate. here they are equal.

round 2 the winner is superman. everybody saying the opposite is just...wrong. superman can generate an IMP too,a much much(much)stroger IMP. wally can punch his enemy in the atmosfere if he is running at light speed..superman can do the same standing still,or can just punch you trough the whole planet. supes can even split a moon with a single punch(he said that when he was fighting blackadam). when i'll see wally destroying a moon i'll say that they are equal.

Force = Mass x Acceleration

Flash wins all rounds.

Comics don't operate by F=M*A, strength is taken into account when it comes to force (e.g. effect/damage).

@green_skaar: Explain the IMP.

Superman, assuming he's not worried about collateral damage, can move his limbs at astounding speeds as well...probably at the speed of light. So you have his strength, that already exceeds Wallys by an unimaginable amount, and his movement speed, which might not be nearly as fast, but is certainly fast enough. That being said, with his combo of extreme speed and strength, I think Superman would edge out Wally in all of these contest.

I should have said "Comics rarely operate by F=M*A"

I'm sure you are aware of many "slow" bricks that have incredible force.

@slimj87d: Screw you and your math too.

I saw this.

Are we assuming that the baseball and the bat are unbreakable ? If they are real baseballs and bats then Flash wins, easy.

1. Who can throw a baseball the farthest?

We have seen the Flash carry people at hundreds of times the speed of light (when he saves them from a nuclear explosion) without killing them, thanks to the speedforce, so I guess he can throw a baseball at the same velocity without the ball being vaporized. Superman cannot do that. Same applies to contests 2, 3 and 4.