#101 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

That's literally Cheetah being amped by Zoom, Wally's hard counter. She literally mentions Zoom by name. Zoom can make ANYONE faster than Wally, because Zoom is the fastest being in DC if you exclude time travel (which Wally refuses to use). You're spreading disinformation to absurd levels.

Wally's durability is directly tied to his speed. If he's going fast, he takes hits just as well as Superman. If he's not, a heat gun or some super strong person can hurt him. I can't make this more clear to you.

edit: I should honestly stop responding to you. You're clearly trolling and you've been outed multiple times as the alt account of a previous troll. I'm just trying to let people who aren't the wiser about Flash know that you're lying and intentionally posting things out of context and ignoring his high end feats.

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#102 Posted by LordMasterGod (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@jackofspades: good for you.....

anyway...

@LordMasterGod said:

there comes a point when speed will only get you but so far.

this is it.

Explain

speed doesn't automatically=win in every fight. it won't here. he needs more then speed to win and he doesn't have it. you please explain to me how he beats 3 people who can each take him 1/1? all of which can fly BTW?

#103 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMasterGod said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@jackofspades: good for you.....

anyway...

@LordMasterGod said:

there comes a point when speed will only get you but so far.

this is it.

Explain

speed doesn't automatically=win in every fight. it won't here. he needs more then speed to win and he doesn't have it. you please explain to me how he beats 3 people who can each take him 1/1? all of which can fly BTW?

No one here can even hit him 1 on 1. The only reason they win this 3 on 1 fight is because Wally's in character and prone to holding back against 3 bloodlusted powerhouses.

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#104 Posted by LordMasterGod (223 posts) - - Show Bio

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

#105 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

Because characters with amazing powersets but soft morals are very limited. It's like the difference between in character Surfer and Bloodlusted Surfer.

Flash can phase through explosions, and has superhuman durability that increases the faster he goes (IE: the more he taps into the speed force, the more it protects him). Also, any AoE attack anyone on this team would use is slower than the speed of light, which is far, far below Wally's reaction speed when tapped into the speed force.

As I, a huge Flash fan, have said -- if he's in character he loses this 3 on 1 pretty badly. Bloodlusted, he'd stomp.

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#106 Posted by LordMasterGod (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

Because characters with amazing powersets but soft morals are very limited. It's like the difference between in character Surfer and Bloodlusted Surfer.

Flash can phase through explosions, and has superhuman durability that increases the faster he goes (IE: the more he taps into the speed force, the more it protects him). Also, any AoE attack anyone on this team would use is slower than the speed of light, which is far, far below Wally's reaction speed when tapped into the speed force.

As I, a huge Flash fan, have said -- if he's in character he loses this 3 on 1 pretty badly. Bloodlusted, he'd stomp.

i guess so man, i'm really tired of these flash>all debates. for now on if i here the name flash i'm just walking away. it's the most pointless thing on here. no flash fanboys is gonna except anything less than him winning every fight.

#107 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to.

You win a cookie.

#108 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

Because characters with amazing powersets but soft morals are very limited. It's like the difference between in character Surfer and Bloodlusted Surfer.

Flash can phase through explosions, and has superhuman durability that increases the faster he goes (IE: the more he taps into the speed force, the more it protects him). Also, any AoE attack anyone on this team would use is slower than the speed of light, which is far, far below Wally's reaction speed when tapped into the speed force.

As I, a huge Flash fan, have said -- if he's in character he loses this 3 on 1 pretty badly. Bloodlusted, he'd stomp.

i guess so man, i'm really tired of these flash>all debates. for now on if i here the name flash i'm just walking away. it's the most pointless thing on here. no flash fanboys is gonna except anything less than him winning every fight.

I just said he lost this fight. What are you talking about?

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#109 Posted by LordMasterGod (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

Because characters with amazing powersets but soft morals are very limited. It's like the difference between in character Surfer and Bloodlusted Surfer.

Flash can phase through explosions, and has superhuman durability that increases the faster he goes (IE: the more he taps into the speed force, the more it protects him). Also, any AoE attack anyone on this team would use is slower than the speed of light, which is far, far below Wally's reaction speed when tapped into the speed force.

As I, a huge Flash fan, have said -- if he's in character he loses this 3 on 1 pretty badly. Bloodlusted, he'd stomp.

i guess so man, i'm really tired of these flash>all debates. for now on if i here the name flash i'm just walking away. it's the most pointless thing on here. no flash fanboys is gonna except anything less than him winning every fight.

I just said he lost this fight. What are you talking about?

you said a bl flash can stomp. but i don't care anymore, it's pointless.

#110 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

Because characters with amazing powersets but soft morals are very limited. It's like the difference between in character Surfer and Bloodlusted Surfer.

Flash can phase through explosions, and has superhuman durability that increases the faster he goes (IE: the more he taps into the speed force, the more it protects him). Also, any AoE attack anyone on this team would use is slower than the speed of light, which is far, far below Wally's reaction speed when tapped into the speed force.

As I, a huge Flash fan, have said -- if he's in character he loses this 3 on 1 pretty badly. Bloodlusted, he'd stomp.

i guess so man, i'm really tired of these flash>all debates. for now on if i here the name flash i'm just walking away. it's the most pointless thing on here. no flash fanboys is gonna except anything less than him winning every fight.

I just said he lost this fight. What are you talking about?

you said a bl flash can stomp. but i don't care anymore, it's pointless.

This fight isn't Flash bloodlusted. It's Wally in character vs Thor, Gladiator, and Sentry bloodlusted. Team wins, I even said it was a stomp. What more do you want? Battles on this forum are based on the conditions set.

And everything on this board is pointless. It's battles about fictional characters. It's about having fun debates and talking about the abilities of characters you like, or watching other people talk about what other characters can do so you learn more about them. It's about learning and discussing.

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#111 Posted by Cap10nate (2451 posts) - - Show Bio

never read much Flash, but could he do anything to them if they aren't standing on the ground?

#112 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cap10nate said:

never read much Flash, but could he do anything to them if they aren't standing on the ground?

Yes, Wally has multiple showings of him running in space or off of a planet.

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#113 Posted by LordMasterGod (223 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

Because characters with amazing powersets but soft morals are very limited. It's like the difference between in character Surfer and Bloodlusted Surfer.

Flash can phase through explosions, and has superhuman durability that increases the faster he goes (IE: the more he taps into the speed force, the more it protects him). Also, any AoE attack anyone on this team would use is slower than the speed of light, which is far, far below Wally's reaction speed when tapped into the speed force.

As I, a huge Flash fan, have said -- if he's in character he loses this 3 on 1 pretty badly. Bloodlusted, he'd stomp.

i guess so man, i'm really tired of these flash>all debates. for now on if i here the name flash i'm just walking away. it's the most pointless thing on here. no flash fanboys is gonna except anything less than him winning every fight.

I just said he lost this fight. What are you talking about?

you said a bl flash can stomp. but i don't care anymore, it's pointless.

This fight isn't Flash bloodlusted. It's Wally in character vs Thor, Gladiator, and Sentry bloodlusted. Team wins, I even said it was a stomp. What more do you want? Battles on this forum are based on the conditions set.

And everything on this board is pointless. It's battles about fictional characters. It's about having fun debates and talking about the abilities of characters you like, or watching other people talk about what other characters can do so you learn more about them. It's about learning and discussing.

probably got this thread mixed with another flash vs one. i can in thinking that, sadly people make it NOT fun.

#114 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

@Dredeuced said:

@LordMasterGod said:

funny how people (wally) always have to be "bloodlusted" to do something. and how people make these characters fight the way they want them to. i'm sure an AoE attack from each person would do the trick. he is still human right? withhuman durability?

Because characters with amazing powersets but soft morals are very limited. It's like the difference between in character Surfer and Bloodlusted Surfer.

Flash can phase through explosions, and has superhuman durability that increases the faster he goes (IE: the more he taps into the speed force, the more it protects him). Also, any AoE attack anyone on this team would use is slower than the speed of light, which is far, far below Wally's reaction speed when tapped into the speed force.

As I, a huge Flash fan, have said -- if he's in character he loses this 3 on 1 pretty badly. Bloodlusted, he'd stomp.

i guess so man, i'm really tired of these flash>all debates. for now on if i here the name flash i'm just walking away. it's the most pointless thing on here. no flash fanboys is gonna except anything less than him winning every fight.

I just said he lost this fight. What are you talking about?

you said a bl flash can stomp. but i don't care anymore, it's pointless.

This fight isn't Flash bloodlusted. It's Wally in character vs Thor, Gladiator, and Sentry bloodlusted. Team wins, I even said it was a stomp. What more do you want? Battles on this forum are based on the conditions set.

And everything on this board is pointless. It's battles about fictional characters. It's about having fun debates and talking about the abilities of characters you like, or watching other people talk about what other characters can do so you learn more about them. It's about learning and discussing.

probably got this thread mixed with another flash vs one. i can in thinking that, sadly people make it NOT fun.

I'm sorry if you don't enjoy talking about Flash. I clearly side with Flash and and do my best to show his best feats and greatest accomplishments relative to other heroes -- there's plenty of lowball feats with plenty of reasons that make it understandable why you would think he has lower capabilities. Most people only know Flash from the JL cartoons where he was a groundbound dude who couldn't come close to lightspeed -- though even in THAT series Wally was the most powerful character, lol.

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#115 Posted by LordMasterGod (223 posts) - - Show Bio

when people bring up the cartoon i don't even bother.

#116 Posted by age_of_ultron_Prime2000 (1217 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins

#117 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12346 posts) - - Show Bio

@Charlie_Jade said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@jackofspades: good for you.....

anyway...

@LordMasterGod said:

there comes a point when speed will only get you but so far.

this is it.

Explain

One little finger flick from Superman

That's new 52 barry allan, nice ........ NEXT

#118 Posted by Schlampe (2578 posts) - - Show Bio
@Charlie_Jade: I'm just saying, mass times acceleration is force. And people get hurt by force, so it could actually take someone very far, especially if you can move so fast light can't see you coming.
#119 Edited by boostergold321 (301 posts) - - Show Bio

The Flash's powers are pretty vaguely defined sometimes. He's most commonly known as the guy who runs really fast.

At a closer glance, the Flash doesn't seem any different than most other superpowered people. He wields greater than human force with relatively low body weight in comparison to that force which gives him greater than human speed.

I don't even think the Flash "runs". I think he outputs a layer force to put repel earth's gravity by just enough, appearing to run but really floating just above the ground while putting out the force needed to move super-fast. This way, he can travel unhindered like beam a of light. It seems very similar Superman or any Superman-archeype's flight ability.

Of course, even with the power of flight, It's a wonder that the characters known as high-powered superhumans, especially the ones who are portrayed traveling at light speed and beyond all over the place, don't plague the earth with earthquakes and hurricanes on a regular basis. These guys going at top speed just can't be good for earth's health.

Since Flash is so super powerful and his body is able to use that power and remain in one piece, he also has superhuman durability. .

Superhuman power usually doesn't just apply to muscle power and being able to take a hit better than others. if it's organic, then it is a difference in genetics. Everything about the body will be increased proportionately to a superhuman level, to what extent depends on the level superhuman power the person possesses. Yes, the Flash's brain like other super-people, can process things at superhuman speeds as well. Surprise, Surprise!

The more you look at the Flash, the more and more he seems like a typical superman-archetype.

The only things that make him different is that he can drain energy the energy of others, to what is extent is made unclear.

And, his silly time-travel ability.

People like to think of speed only when they think of the flash but speed of travel requires force. Some people seem to think that if your'e "strong" then you can't be fast when it's actually to the contrary. The best I can assume is that the Flash is more powerful than Superman. Does the Flash have limitless power? Not according to the comics. But still, he has way more energy to burn than Superman.

PHYSICS &SUPERPOWERS 101 (it's not that complicated,really)

1. Just because your super-strong doesn't everything else is as strong as you.

Super-speed is cool but running faster than light in long distances should not be possible to do on earth. You'd be tearing the ground apart by exerting the force needed to travel at that speed, eliminating the friction needed to run. also, even with the power of flight I mentioned above, you still might cause a bunch of unwanted collateral damage. With guys like this, Even if their power isn't focused directly on ordinary people and things, the side effects can be devastating.

Even picking up a large building is not just a matter of strength but balance. While picking it up your exerted pressure on the stricture of the building, great force through something with very little surface area, like human (or relatively human) hands, combined with the object's own gravity, can cause it to fall apart while you're lifting it.

2. Ever hear someone say that someone who is strong isn't always fast? In the case of superpowered living things, that's usually untrue.

If the person or thing is exerting force with a body weight that is little in comparison then they will move relatively fast, how fast depends on the amount of force being used them.

Speed of travel requires force whether it's throwing a punch, running or flying.

Since speed requires force, no one can exert full strength and thus full speed, 100 percent of the time.

Flight speed is the most impractical of all because the faster you go the harder it is to change direction. An opponent who is your physical equal can see you coming a mile away and easily bat you away.

In a fight between physical equals, short range speed is what really counts.

People with superpowers wield greater than human power, the most extreme example being the ones with planet shattering force, so naturally, they will move with great speed when the apply themselves. If you have such great force with relatively little body weight in comparison to that then of course you will move at great speeds.

#120 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

It's been stated dozens of times that the speed force reduces friction and negates force exerted on the area for speedsters specifically so they don't harm their environment unless they are actively trying to because of their speed. It's comic fluff magic.

If anyone with the mass of a human was going 90% of lightspeed on Earth in real life they'd cause fusion reactions by colliding with the air. Cracking the ground with the force of takeoff would hardly be your worry.

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#121 Posted by TheCannon (19008 posts) - - Show Bio

ANYONE on the team can solo. Flagged for a spite.

#122 Posted by boostergold321 (301 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

It's been stated dozens of times that the speed force reduces friction and negates force exerted on the area for speedsters specifically so they don't harm their environment unless they are actively trying to because of their speed. It's comic fluff magic.

If anyone with the mass of a human was going 90% of lightspeed on Earth in real life they'd cause fusion reactions by colliding with the air. Cracking the ground with the force of takeoff would hardly be your worry.

Well, the force that the magical "speed-force" diverts has to go somewhere. Like you said, That's the horrible logic of comicbooks half the time.

#123 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@boostergold321 said:

@Dredeuced said:

It's been stated dozens of times that the speed force reduces friction and negates force exerted on the area for speedsters specifically so they don't harm their environment unless they are actively trying to because of their speed. It's comic fluff magic.

If anyone with the mass of a human was going 90% of lightspeed on Earth in real life they'd cause fusion reactions by colliding with the air. Cracking the ground with the force of takeoff would hardly be your worry.

Well, the force that the magical "speed-force" diverts has to go somewhere. Like you said, That's the horrible logic of comicbooks half the time.

It's a multiversal incarnation of all kinetic energy. Presumably, the speed force just phases him through things or moves them out of the way so that he's not atomizing everything on the planet by going so fast.

@TheCannon said:

ANYONE on the team can solo. Flagged for a spite.

Gross miscalculation of Flash's powers. Thor wouldn't even have a chance of keeping up with Wally, same can be said of Sentry and probably Gladiator.

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#124 Edited by boostergold321 (301 posts) - - Show Bio

Still, energy does not "phase through things" without affecting them. That makes no sense.

They could rename the Flash. He's more like Captain atom, Hulk, Sentry, or the host of other comicbook characters that feed on universal atomic energy. His powers are more to them comparable than just some "running man".

#125 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@boostergold321 said:

Still, energy does not "phase through things" without affecting them. That makes no sense.

They could rename the Flash. He's more like Captain atom, Hulk, Sentry, or the host of other comicbook characters that feed on universal atomic energy. His powers are comparable than just some "running man".

Flash vibrates his atoms to fit in the empty spaces between atoms (all matter is more empty space than actual matter because of how atoms are structured) and pass through them without contact, thus avoiding fusion reactions. Or, like I said, speed force's kinetic control moves everything out of the way.

Can't rename Flash. Originally he was just a fast guy as Jay Garrick, but since then he's become practically a brand name for DC. But yes, his powers are more than just "Some running man" or "a speedy guy" and it gets tiring pointing out how powerful he is as a guy who control and manipulates a multiversal power source.

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#126 Posted by ToO_RaW (1116 posts) - - Show Bio

This is true. Atoms are 99.9% empty space. Making the entire universe, mostly nothing.

Food for thought - Science is simply atoms trying to understand atoms.

#127 Edited by boostergold321 (301 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@boostergold321 said:

Still, energy does not "phase through things" without affecting them. That makes no sense.

They could rename the Flash. He's more like Captain atom, Hulk, Sentry, or the host of other comicbook characters that feed on universal atomic energy. His powers are comparable than just some "running man".

Flash vibrates his atoms to fit in the empty spaces between atoms (all matter is more empty space than actual matter because of how atoms are structured) and pass through them without contact, thus avoiding fusion reactions. Or, like I said, speed force's kinetic control moves everything out of the way.

Can't rename Flash. Originally he was just a fast guy as Jay Garrick, but since then he's become practically a brand name for DC. But yes, his powers are more than just "Some running man" or "a speedy guy" and it gets tiring pointing out how powerful he is as a guy who control and manipulates a multiversal power source.

Speeding between empty spaces in atoms? Zig-zagging your atoms past other atoms? HA! That's ridiculously impossible to do for more than one reason!

This is the part about Flash's powers that is so absolutely vague and crazy. Everything about him makes some sense except for that.

I guess that's the comicbooks for you.

#128 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced:

While I've already stated Wally loses this fight, this is an incorrect argument. Flash can hit him hard enough to push him into the speed force if he opens the portal. Sentry can't tank a white dwarf star without being knocked back.

never seen that Flash open portals to Speed Force, where did you get that idea? is it in recent issues? because all Wally does is go faster than light to jump to Speed Force Field,

and gates? i never heard of or seen gates to speed force.

so?

#129 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Dredeuced:

While I've already stated Wally loses this fight, this is an incorrect argument. Flash can hit him hard enough to push him into the speed force if he opens the portal. Sentry can't tank a white dwarf star without being knocked back.

never seen that Flash open portals to Speed Force, where did you get that idea? is it in recent issues? because all Wally does is go faster than light to jump to Speed Force Field,

and gates? i never heard of or seen gates to speed force.

so?

You didn't see the Flashes speed force dump Superboy Prime?

Heck, everytime a Flash goes into the speed force or opens it by breaking the speed barrier it's a big ol circular portal.

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#130 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced: yeah, they go to Speed Force by speeding to lightspeed+, but they don't open static gates to Speed Force (like star gate or something) the mechanism is similar to hyperspace, to get there you need to accelerate and become FTL, never IMP gonna have the power to push someone to lightspeed+ so you're argument is invalid.

about Superboy Prime, all Flashs gathered to push him FTL so they can BFR him to Speed Force. it's not IMP that did the job, but their actual team effort to push FTL.

now again, how would Flash push Sentry to lightspeed ?

#131 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Dredeuced: yeah, they go to Speed Force by speeding to lightspeed+, but they don't open static gates to Speed Force (like star gate or something) the mechanism is similar to hyperspace, to get there you need to accelerate and become FTL, never IMP gonna have the power to push someone to lightspeed+ so you're argument is invalid.

about Superboy Prime, all Flashs gathered to push him FTL so they can BFR him to Speed Force. it's not IMP that did the job, but their actual team effort to push FTL.

now again, how would Flash push Sentry to lightspeed ?

Do you have a scan on hand? I don't remember them saying they had to accelerate prime to light speed to get him into the speed force, they just opened the gate (as Wally has done plenty of times, but usually he's going really fast when he does it anyhow) and started pushing him in and the other speedsters grabbed him. Presumably, if he's at the gate, you just IMP him backwards.

or, you know, Wally could just IMP him and that'd probably KO normal Sentry. Don't even know why we're talking about speed force dumping unless it's Sentry(Void).

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#132 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

WHY IS THIS NOT LOCK GIVE ME A BREAK TEAMS STOMPS SO HARD,AND YES I KNOW THIS IS IN CAPS I WANT EVERYBODY TO SEE THIS AND KNOW THIS THREAD IS CRAP

#133 Posted by God_Spawn (38103 posts) - - Show Bio

Lady Liberty solos.

Moderator
#134 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Lady Liberty solos.

please tell me why this is not lock

#135 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackofspades said:

@god_spawn said:

Lady Liberty solos.

please tell me why this is not lock

Well, he just agreed with Lady Liberty, who said, earlier in this thread, that Flash would win by arguing that Flash would use all of his best powers.

I disagree because Flash doesn't usually go straight to his biggest guns in character, but it's not a factually incorrect argument, as if Wally was fighting to his best he'd probably win.

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#136 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@jackofspades said:

@god_spawn said:

Lady Liberty solos.

please tell me why this is not lock

Well, he just agreed with Lady Liberty, who said, earlier in this thread, that Flash would win by arguing that Flash would use all of his best powers.

I disagree because Flash doesn't usually go straight to his biggest guns in character, but it's not a factually incorrect argument, as if Wally was fighting to his best he'd probably win.

only on this site flash is a god but get his butt kick by this guy

#137 Posted by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackofspades said:

@Dredeuced said:

@jackofspades said:

@god_spawn said:

Lady Liberty solos.

please tell me why this is not lock

Well, he just agreed with Lady Liberty, who said, earlier in this thread, that Flash would win by arguing that Flash would use all of his best powers.

I disagree because Flash doesn't usually go straight to his biggest guns in character, but it's not a factually incorrect argument, as if Wally was fighting to his best he'd probably win.

only on this site flash is a god but get his butt kick by this guy

Irrelevant scan. Plenty of superheroes have low showings. A Villain with a strong powerset, a lot of prep, and 100% knowledge of Flash's capabilities trapping him and THEN GETTING BEAT ANYHOW isn't a reason to disparage him. Want me to post scans of him soloing Amazo or Mongul? Or outdoing the entirety of DC Earth in a fight against the Anti Monitor(though he still lost cuz Anti-Monitor is too powerful)?

Even in comics, Flash is pretty damn powerful. That's WHY people on this forum and in this thread -- many of which are vets -- are saying he's so powerful. He's not a god, just an avatar of a power that is beyond gods.

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#138 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@All_Mighty_Beyonder: Don't remember.

#139 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

Do you have a scan on hand? I don't remember them saying they had to accelerate prime to light speed to get him into the speed force, they just opened the gate (as Wally has done plenty of times, but usually he's going really fast when he does it anyhow) and started pushing him in and the other speedsters grabbed him. Presumably, if he's at the gate, you just IMP him backwards.

or, you know, Wally could just IMP him and that'd probably KO normal Sentry. Don't even know why we're talking about speed force dumping unless it's Sentry(Void).

no, that's not how it works, to jump to Speed Force Field you need to accelerate to lightspeed+, it was always like this everytime they jump to Speed force Field, they can't open static gates and throw things in it. and therefore, IMP Sentry to Speed Force Field is invalid statement.

Sentry has HAX regeneration at atomic level, everytime Flash IMP him he will keep coming back, Sentry is nigh-indestructible. i don't see how Flash can beat him.

in the other hand, all Sentry needs is one instant, one micro-second, one moment to finish Flash with matter-manipulation, i can imagine this scenario :

Flash IMP Sentry and blow him to pieces, few seconds later, Sentry reforms back behind Flash and try to knock him with one punch, luckily Flash realise he's being attacked and dodge with high speed and make several world spins to get enough speed for a harder IMP, in the mean time Sentry realise he won't be able to tag him so he just stands on the floor. Flash grab his fist and charge on Sentry who can't even sense Flash come at him with such speed. but, suddenly, in the last meters from impact point, Flash loses speed and stumbles, he realise that some thing is sticking his feet to the floor. it was Sentry who changed the floors matter for such purpose a while ago. with Flash slowing Sentry sense him and try to capture him with matter manipulation, Flash try to phase through by vibrating his particules, but Sentry was already controling his particules, he blows him with a wave of his hand.

Sentry wins.

#140 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Dredeuced said:

Do you have a scan on hand? I don't remember them saying they had to accelerate prime to light speed to get him into the speed force, they just opened the gate (as Wally has done plenty of times, but usually he's going really fast when he does it anyhow) and started pushing him in and the other speedsters grabbed him. Presumably, if he's at the gate, you just IMP him backwards.

or, you know, Wally could just IMP him and that'd probably KO normal Sentry. Don't even know why we're talking about speed force dumping unless it's Sentry(Void).

no, that's not how it works, to jump to Speed Force Field you need to accelerate to lightspeed+, it was always like this everytime they jump to Speed force Field, they can't open static gates and throw things in it. and therefore, IMP Sentry to Speed Force Field is invalid statement.

Sentry has HAX regeneration at atomic level, everytime Flash IMP him he will keep coming back, Sentry is nigh-indestructible. i don't see how Flash can beat him.

in the other hand, all Sentry needs is one instant, one micro-second, one moment to finish Flash with matter-manipulation, i can imagine this scenario :

Flash IMP Sentry and blow him to pieces, few seconds later, Sentry reforms back behind Flash and try to knock him with one punch, luckily Flash realise he's being attacked and dodge with high speed and make several world spins to get enough speed for a harder IMP, in the mean time Sentry realise he won't be able to tag him so he just stands on the floor. Flash grab his fist and charge on Sentry who can't even sense Flash come at him with such speed. but, suddenly, in the last meters from impact point, Flash loses speed and stumbles, he realise that some thing is sticking his feet to the floor. it was Sentry who changed the floors matter for such purpose a while ago. with Flash slowing Sentry sense him and try to capture him with matter manipulation, Flash try to phase through by vibrating his particules, but Sentry was already controling his particules, he blows him with a wave of his hand.

Sentry wins.

Sentry can't reform himself from nothing if he's stable, normal Sentry. You're using amped Void Sentry feats. This is the normal Sentry, the one who brawled with WWHulk, the Mighty Avengers one. He's certainly powerful, but not amped up by Osborn and being controlled by the Void.

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#141 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced: no it was Sentry in the last panels of New Avengers issue where he defeated Molecule Man. Sentry stated himself that he finally understands how his power operates using matter-manipulation and he did make a demonstration. so yes, Sentry can use matter manipulation. and he reformed himself as Sentry when he was blown by Morgan Le Fay.

#142 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

@Dredeuced: no it was Sentry in the last panels of New Avengers issue where he defeated Molecule Man. Sentry stated himself that he finally understands how his power operates using matter-manipulation and he did make a demonstration. so yes, Sentry can use matter manipulation. and he reformed himself as Sentry when he was blown by Morgan Le Fay.

Again, Black Eyed Sentry = Void. Do you think normal sentry would rip her freaking head off?

That was all void, the entire Osborn's Avengers arc was Void in every significant fight. That's why, at the end of siege, you see everyone fighting against Void.

I agree that Wally has no way to kill the seemingly unkillable Void version of Sentry, but stable, normal Sentry is a pretty easy KO for Wally.

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#143 Edited by boostergold321 (301 posts) - - Show Bio

A Crazy sentry isn't the same as the Void.

Just like, when superheroes duke it out, hitting hard enough to hurt doesn't mean they are in a berserker rage. When you're in a berserker rage, you throw blows with the intent to mortally wound or kill your opponent in one or two strikes. ending the fight.

Berserker rage isn't same as "floating like a utter fly and stinging like a bee". Sure, you hit hard, but you don't try to one rip through people with a one-two hit kill blow.

These guys don't hit like total wussies, even if they're not trying to kill each other. You think think the Sentry doesn't even hit with enough force to punch through a wet paper bag unless he's in rage mode? Think again.

Also, the Sentry is always mentally unstable, to what extent depends on the circumstance, and the void is a product of that, so you could say he's got a little bit of the Void inside him all the time. That still doesn't mean when he gets crazy, like rip people's bodies apart, that he's no longer the Sentry. He seems pretty fond of tearing things up anyway.

#144 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

@boostergold321 said:

A Crazy sentry isn't the same as the Void.

Just like, when superheroes duke it out, hitting hard enough to hurt doesn't mean they are in a berserker rage. When you're in a berserker rage, you throw blows with the intent to mortally wound or kill your opponent in one or two strikes. ending the fight.

Berserker rage isn't same as "floating like a utter fly and stinging like a bee". Sure, you hit hard, but you don't try to one rip through people with a one-two hit kill blow.

These guys don't hit like total wussies, even if they're not trying to kill each other. You think think the Sentry doesn't even hit with enough force to punch through a wet paper bag unless he's in rage mode? Think again.

Black eyed sentry has ALWAYS meant the Void, though? Like when he crushed every bone in Hulk's body, Robert himself even said that was the Void taking over.

Again, this is STABLE Sentry. We've got plenty of Stable Sentry showings to know that it's different from both Void controlled Sentry (black eyes) and even crazier Osborne's Avengers Void Sentry.

If possible, could the op clarify? I don't think it matters because I think in character Wally loses anyhow, but I'm pretty sure Siege Sentry is the exact opposite of Stable Sentry.

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#145 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackofspades said:

@Lady_Liberty said:

The team doesn't seem to have any method to resist the speed steal, no speed feats that would let them defend against an IMP blitz, and no durability feats that imply they could shrug off said IMP blitz.

NO SPEED LOL

Not only has Thor been blitzed in similar fashion by Spider-Man, Mongoose, and even Amadeus Cho, (Literally, the Cho panel looks almost identical), your scan isn't even canon.

So much speed! Obviously non-enhanced teenagers can avoid Flash's blitzes, just like Non-Canon Sentry can!

#146 Edited by boostergold321 (301 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll just repeat my previous that I just recently edited:

A Crazy sentry isn't the same as the Void.

Just like, when superheroes duke it out, hitting hard enough to hurt doesn't mean they are in a berserker rage. When you're in a berserker rage, you throw blows with the intent to mortally wound or kill your opponent in one or two strikes. ending the fight.

Berserker rage isn't same as "floating like a utter fly and stinging like a bee". In fighting without berserker rage, sure, you hit hard, but you don't try to one rip through people with a one-two hit kill blow. Doing your best to unleash lethal force is usually reserved for moments of berserker rage.

These guys don't hit like total wussies, even if they're not trying to kill each other. You think think the Sentry doesn't even hit with enough force to punch through a wet paper bag unless he's in rage mode? Think again.

Also, the Sentry is always mentally unstable, to what extent depends on the circumstance, and the void is a product of that, so you could say he's got a little bit of the Void inside him all the time. That still doesn't mean when he gets crazy, like rip people's bodies apart, that he's no longer the Sentry. He seems pretty fond of tearing things up anyway.

#147 Edited by Dredeuced (5720 posts) - - Show Bio

Except that it is. Whoever is in control of The Sentry, whether it be Bob or The Void, is based on his mental state. When he is crazy, he is the Void -- that's why he gets those black eyes, that's why he can use the infinity tendrils and reality warping powers. That's how the Sentry works, I have no idea why you're saying it's just normal old non Void Sentry being crazy.

Bob is literally terrified of hurting people -- ala his fight with WWHulk. Non-Void Sentry doesn't have those powers.

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#148 Posted by Nefarious (21267 posts) - - Show Bio

The Flash. He will blitz them all.

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#149 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dredeuced said:

@jackofspades said:

@Dredeuced said:

@jackofspades said:

@god_spawn said:

Lady Liberty solos.

please tell me why this is not lock

Well, he just agreed with Lady Liberty, who said, earlier in this thread, that Flash would win by arguing that Flash would use all of his best powers.

I disagree because Flash doesn't usually go straight to his biggest guns in character, but it's not a factually incorrect argument, as if Wally was fighting to his best he'd probably win.

only on this site flash is a god but get his butt kick by this guy

Irrelevant scan. Plenty of superheroes have low showings. A Villain with a strong powerset, a lot of prep, and 100% knowledge of Flash's capabilities trapping him and THEN GETTING BEAT ANYHOW isn't a reason to disparage him. Want me to post scans of him soloing Amazo or Mongul? Or outdoing the entirety of DC Earth in a fight against the Anti Monitor(though he still lost cuz Anti-Monitor is too powerful)?

Even in comics, Flash is pretty damn powerful. That's WHY people on this forum and in this thread -- many of which are vets -- are saying he's so powerful. He's not a god, just an avatar of a power that is beyond gods.

and he still is human

#150 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackofspades said:

and he still is human

Sentry is just as human as Flash is. They both are humans who have additional powers thanks to a freak chemical accident. Why does that have any relevance here? Flash has beaten plenty of people who aren't human, as well as plenty that are. The mere fact of being of human origin has no bearing on who would win in this particular battle.