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#1 Edited by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

Boba & Jango Fett

Qui-Gon Jinn & Obi-Wan Kenobi

Rules

  • Legends + New Canon feats apply, with Legends taking priority.
  • Pre-Vong War Boba, Pre-death Jango.
  • Both sides are alerted that they will be facing another duo in five minutes, but they have no idea who. Teams can spend this time talking.
  • No prior knowledge.
  • Standard gear (Boba does not have Beskar).
  • Fight to the death, knockout or incapacitation.

Round 1

TPM Kenobi.

Round 2

AotC Kenobi.

Location - TOR Jedi Temple Ruins

Teams start 25 feet apart, on the ground, visible.

#2 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21872 posts) - - Show Bio

Young obi wan seems like he would be a weak link IMHO.

#3 Posted by JediXMan (30630 posts) - - Show Bio

Fetts stomp, in my opinion. A more experienced Obi-Wan barely held his own against Jango, and Boba would surpass his father as an adult.

Moderator
#4 Posted by Intrepid37 (697 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Barely held his own? Jango was on the losing end the entire fight.

#5 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

A more experienced Obi-Wan barely held his own against Jango

Quite a few people are of the opinion that Obi-Wan was taking that fight handily, and that Boba's help was substantial in Jango making it out alive. I don't really agree with that, but I do agree with the notion that AotC Kenobi should be able to defeat Jango on even footing, even if not easily.

Although, I could bump Kenobi up to his AotC self to make this more even?

#6 Posted by JediXMan (30630 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Barely held his own? Jango was on the losing end the entire fight.

He lost his lightsaber multiple times, and ended up BFR'd.

It was either a stalemate, or a slight victory for Fett. Perhaps "barely held his own" is inaccurate, but the point is, if adult Obi-Wan didn't hold a solid majority, his weaker and less experienced self should not be able to hurt Jango - a guy whose hobby was taking on Jedi.

Moderator
#7 Posted by JediXMan (30630 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

A more experienced Obi-Wan barely held his own against Jango

Quite a few people are of the opinion that Obi-Wan was taking that fight handily, and that Boba's help was substantial in Jango making it out alive. I don't really agree with that, but I do agree with the notion that AotC Kenobi should be able to defeat Jango on even footing, even if not easily.

Although, I could bump Kenobi up to his AotC self to make this more even?

Perhaps, but the result was a BFR. So it should be considered a stalemate or a victory for Fett - yes, on equal terrain, it might have been a better fight. But keep in mind that Jango is the guy who killed multiple Jedi with his bare hands, wires, and rocks during the Battle of Galidraan. Also interesting: Jango killed Dooku's padawan. No, she doesn't have many feats, but the fact that she was Dooku's student is an interesting note.

Moderator
#8 Posted by Intrepid37 (697 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Jango only ever gained an advantage/advantages when Obi-Wan was focusing on Boba who was operating Jango's Slave I. I'm pretty sure that Jango later admits to Boba that he was almost done for.

#9 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I think we're in agreement. It's also worth noting that The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia noted that Jango killed numerous Jedi during the Battle of Geonosis, which I'm glad I found since I thought it was fishy that during the movie he only killed one Jedi.

Gonna move this up to AotC Kenobi.

#10 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio
#11 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@kidman560: Fair enough. Any particular reason? (I just swapped it to Attack of the Clones Kenobi, by the way, if that makes a difference).

#12 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: it does it makes a slight difference in the fact that theres a possibility of Jango dying... but thats it... all in all i dont see either one of them taking down Boba in 1 on 1 combat...

Boba has gotten so good at killing Jedi when he was training Jaina he was able to use his own lightsaber that he stole off some Jedi... after he killed him

#13 Edited by Wolfrazer (6737 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: He did?...But...how so? Cause after he kills Coleman, we just see him standing next to Dooku until flying off to go and fight Windu.

#14 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolfrazer: Must have been off-screen.

@i_like_swords: it does it makes a slight difference in the fact that theres a possibility of Jango dying... but thats it... all in all i dont see either one of them taking down Boba in 1 on 1 combat...

Boba has gotten so good at killing Jedi when he was training Jaina he was able to use his own lightsaber that he stole off some Jedi... after he killed him

True, Boba is good at taking down Jedi. However I don't see him lasting in a lightsaber duel against either guy on the other team for very long. I think it can go either way really.

#15 Posted by Wolfrazer (6737 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: But?.....I don't....it didn't seem....<<..../is just lost now...

#16 Posted by Intrepid37 (697 posts) - - Show Bio

With AOTC Kenobi, it's a pretty conclusive win in their favor.

#17 Posted by kidman560 (7577 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: no in a 1 on 1 melee match it would not go well for Boba... but its not just Melee and he can keep his distance... hes extremely good at what he does even more so than his father (who was pretty dang good himself) im gonna back the fetts for a majority until someone can convince me other wise

#18 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24907 posts) - - Show Bio

With AOTC Kenobi, it's a pretty conclusive win in their favor.

This.The Fetts has never defeated a Jedi on Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon caliber - and I doubt it's going to start here.

#19 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

Fetts stomp, in my opinion.

@intrepid37 said:

With AOTC Kenobi, it's a pretty conclusive win in their favor.

This. The Fetts has never defeated a Jedi on Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon caliber - and I doubt it's going to start here.

Aaaand fight. Just kidding, but I doubt either side stomps under these conditions.

#20 Edited by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

The Fetts are probably not even going to get one round, let alone a stomp.

Jango lost to Obi-Wan. The novel, the junior novel etc. detail Kenobi's advantage due to speed which made it one-sided in his favor, but he couldn't harm Jango due to the latter's armor. Jango was saved by Boba turning the Slave 1 which distracted Kenobi, and later Boba aided him again by firing at Kenobi. In the novel, Jango explicitly admits to Boba saving his life.

With Qui-Gon keeping Boba occupied, Jango will not be blessed with timely interventions and distractions and would lose to Kenobi. He won't be disarming Kenobi because, again, there's no Boba to befuddle Kenobi this time.

On the Fett's part, their weaponry is mostly useless against Obi-Wan. Their blaster fire and poison darts could be repelled by Kenobi's lightsaber or Deflection, and their missiles/grenades/other explosives could be dodged or at least impaired via Force Protection, and should inflict no real harm as with Kenobi in AotC. Flamethrowers can be repelled via Obi-Wan's Deflection, which he used against Durge not long after AotC - or they could simply be dodged.

With Qui-Gon, he is not as fast as Kenobi but is stronger and more powerful (from what we've seen, at least). His Ataru proficiency affords him the capacity to avoid their blaster fire/darts/explosives etc. and he could mitigate explosions with Protection, at least presumably. Qui-Gon is at about as capable as AotC Kenobi in terms of martial capacity, and he is stronger, so his blows would be more effective, though not traumatizing. He should still be capable of dodging, deflecting or mitigating the Fetts' arsenals nonetheless.

In more desperate situations, the Jedi do have their significantly greater speed and telekinesis to fall back upon.

The Jedi would win at least 8/10.

#21 Edited by BoringPerson (1886 posts) - - Show Bio

Jedi lose, if Jango can shoot Coleman to death he can shoot Qui-gon to death.

Insert trollface.jpg?

#22 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: I'd say Qui-Gon would have a harder time avoiding the Fett's arsenal than you made out in your post. Ataru would be useful in dodging blaster bolts through it's acrobatics, but then, Qui-Gon at this point in time does not utilise any acrobatics. And while he would have to fall back on his abilities in blast deflection, it would hardly be easy for him. There isn't much to substantiate that Boba's vast array of AoE weaponry would not pose major problems for Jinn, in particular his explosives. Although you are right about Obi-Wan vs Jango. Also, I wouldn't say telekinesis would help Jinn and Kenobi that much. Jinn rarely makes use of it combatively aside from the occasional Force push, but doesn't appear to be too skilled with it other than that. Kenobi on the other hand is relatively skilled with using telekinesis in combat and with the environment, but I wouldn't say it's a match-winning advantage (opposed to their combat speed, fighting skill and armament, which would likely win the day).

Overall.. I would likely favor the Jedi under these stipulations, mostly due to Kenobi's superiority over Jango, but I see Boba as being capable of causing Jinn major problems, and being able to cause Kenobi more problems than Jango could by virtue of superior gear/tactical ability. If Jango squared off against Jinn while Boba took on Kenobi for a few rounds, I could see them pulling some wins.

I'm gonna add a second round with TPM Kenobi since I think there's some discussion value with both incarnations.

#23 Edited by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio
@i_like_swords said:

I'd say Qui-Gon would have a harder time avoiding the Fett's arsenal than you made out in your post. Ataru would be useful in dodging blaster bolts through it's acrobatics, but then, Qui-Gon at this point in time does not utilise any acrobatics.

Based on what? His fighting style itself may not carry the typical connotations of Ataru, but that hardly restricts his acrobatic abilities, and he is facing opponents different to those he usually faces anyways.

Also, acrobatics themselves aren't necessary. He only needs any moves that reflect physical dexterity, which he has displayed during TPM.

And while he would have to fall back on his abilities in blast deflection, it would hardly be easy for him. There isn't much to substantiate that Boba's vast array of AoE weaponry would not pose major problems for Jinn, in particular his explosives.

Nobody said it would be easy; I said it could be done.

Also, I wouldn't say telekinesis would help Jinn and Kenobi that much. Jinn rarely makes use of it combatively aside from the occasional Force push, but doesn't appear to be too skilled with it other than that. Kenobi on the other hand is relatively skilled with using telekinesis in combat and with the environment, but I wouldn't say it's a match-winning advantage (opposed to their combat speed, fighting skill and armament, which would likely win the day).

Jinn displayed telekinesis multiple times against battle droids during TPM. The Fetts have the exact same level of resistance to Force attack as the droids do: none.

Overall.. I would likely favor the Jedi under these stipulations, mostly due to Kenobi's superiority over Jango, but I see Boba as being capable of causing Jinn major problems, and being able to cause Kenobi more problems than Jango could by virtue of superior gear/tactical ability. If Jango squared off against Jinn while Boba took on Kenobi for a few rounds, I could see them pulling some wins.

I doubt Jango would beat Qui-Gon for a majority, nor do I doubt Boba would beat Kenobi. A year after RotS, Kenobi did square off against a younger Boba, but the fight is less conclusive of what would happen here because Kenobi refrained from using a lightsaber during that time for most of the fight because of publicity issues.

I'm gonna add a second round with TPM Kenobi since I think there's some discussion value with both incarnations.

Fair enough.

#24 Edited by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Just a small point.. I think it's worth noting that taking into account Jango's EU showings, he may have faired better against AotC Kenobi. For instance, he wouldn't need to dive for his blaster like he did in his fight with Kenobi, because in the EU he has electromagnetic gloves/weapons. And he may have faired a little bit better in unarmed when taking into account his performance against the Jedi group bare handed, being able to kill them in single strikes to weak areas, and using nerve strike techniques/targeting weak areas. And after looking at the small details in the feat, you notice that Jango more than likely killed seven Jedi with his bare hands. Dooku notes that half of the Jedi were killed in the assault, and you see fourteen of them lined up. You also see in present time that Dooku has seven lightsabers in a glass cabinet - presumably those of his fallen Jedi. Then after Jango kills the four Jedi, when you look around you see more than four bodies lying around Jango. Killing seven Jedi with his bare hands is a monumental feat for a non-Force sensitive, especially in the manner he did so.

#25 Posted by Clark_EL (2654 posts) - - Show Bio

Jedi

#26 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: He killed featless Jedi. Is it an impressive showing? Sure, but then, the Jedi were still more intended for fodder if anything else, and Jedi have fallen victim to non-Force sensitives on a repeated basis before (Jedi battlemasters and even Grand Masters have been killed by Bounty Hunters before).

And Jango is hardly the only one who would be better off with the EU. Kenobi's showings in virtually every area are improved in the EU as well.

#27 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova:

Based on what? His fighting style itself may not carry the typical connotations of Ataru, but that hardly restricts his acrobatic abilities, and he is facing a different opponent this time anyways.

Also, acrobatics themselves aren't necessary. He only needs any moves that reflect physical dexterity, which he has displayed during TPM.

I'm just saying, he'd need to focus more on blast deflection than kinetic avoidance - not that he's incapable of that too. And extensive kinetic movement could fatigue him somewhat (although the Fetts aren't exactly Darth Maul, so whether they could tire out Jinn is questionable).

Nobody said it would be easy; I said it could be done.

Fair enough. I do think there are a couple of rounds in there where Boba meets his mark though.

Jinn displayed telekinesis multiple times against battle droids during TPM. The Fetts have the exact same level of resistance to Force attack as the droids do: none.

Ah, I haven't watched it in a while so I probably forgot. But yeah, I agree. Although I don't think any damage sustained from a telekinetic push would be anything more than superficial. It'd more be an opener for melee combat.

I doubt Jango would beat Qui-Gon for a majority, nor do I doubt Boba would beat Kenobi. A year after RotS, Kenobi did square off against a younger Boba, but the fight is less conclusive of what would happen here because Kenobi refrained from using a lightsaber during that time for most of the fight because of publicity issues.

I agree. What do you think of Boba vs Jinn? In general. I did not know about that fight. I need to check that out. Where did it happen?

#28 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Could the same not be said for the Dark Jedi who Katarn defeated? They aren't entirely featless either. Those were the same Jedi who were dodging/tanking explosions, demonstrating Force speed/leap, slaughtering an entire group of Mandalorians without taking casualties, deflecting blaster fire ect, and Mandalorians are considered by some to be the best fighters in the galaxy, and are hardly unimpressive. Jango killing seven of them with his bare hands, back-to-back, is very impressive on the whole, and isn't inconsistent in any real way. Jango also killed a number of Jedi during the Geonosis battle off-screen, according to the Encyclopedia.

And yeah, I agree there also.

#29 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: The site is lagging on me at the moment, so I can't see your response, but I can see it when I check my notifications.

Firstly, I disagree with him being tired out. He lasted over ten minutes against Darth Maul to memory, so I doubt the Fetts would be tiring him any time soon.

For the fight between Boba and Obi-Wan, it happened in the LotJ series. I could quote it for you if you wish.

#30 Edited by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

Could the same not be said for the Dark Jedi who Katarn defeated? They aren't entirely featless either. Those were the same Jedi who were dodging/tanking explosions, demonstrating Force speed/leap, slaughtering an entire group of Mandalorians without taking casualties, deflecting blaster fire ect, and Mandalorians are considered by some to be the best fighters in the galaxy, and are hardly unimpressive. Jango killing seven of them with his bare hands, back-to-back, is very impressive on the whole, and isn't inconsistent in any real way. Jango also killed a number of Jedi during the Geonosis battle off-screen, according to the Encyclopedia.

And yeah, I agree there also.

The Dark Jedi Katarn defeated do have showings.

Also, these Jedi were mostly average is what I intended to say. I'm not sure about slaughtering Mandalorians. That did come as a result of the Jedi collectively, including Dooku and Komari Vosa, but those Jedi in particular?

#31 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Average, yes. But there was seven of them, all wielding lightsabers, with reaction speed sufficient to dodge explosions and deflect blaster fire from Mandalorian Warriors. That alone makes them formidable to most non-enhanced beings, in my opinion.

There were relatively equal numbers, and Dooku and Vosa appeared to not enter the fray at all (Dooku didn't anyway). And actually, the Jedi Jango kills last actually used Force leap and bisected a Mandalorian out of the sky.

#32 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (24907 posts) - - Show Bio

...why Katarn is being mentioned is beyond me, and yes - a chunk of the Dark Jedi Kyle beat did display some showing. Better then featless Jedi that Jango beat. Fodder Force sensitives are only so impressive seeing as how they reguarly get defeated by non-Force sensetives and in some cases flesh eating zombies.

#33 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: As I said, it's a good showing, but not enough to beat the Jedi in this match.

There were relatively equal numbers, and Dooku and Vosa appeared to not enter the fray at all (Dooku didn't anyway).

We at least saw them deflecting blaster fire with their lightsabers, so their fight was likely off-panel since it focused on Jango, not them.

#34 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: I wasn't aware that they had any notable showings, I had only heard they were "highly trained". Again, the Jedi Jango defeated weren't necessarily featless, but yeah, they didn't have the most feats. Although Jedi in general are formidable warriors with supernatural abilities, so it's still a very impressive feat no matter how you spin it.

#35 Posted by Kingant27 (5041 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 2 in a hard fight

#36 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

Although Jedi in general are formidable warriors with supernatural abilities, so it's still a very impressive feat no matter how you spin it.

Not always. Jedi have lost to non-Force sensitives multiple times.

#37 Edited by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

Although Jedi in general are formidable warriors with supernatural abilities, so it's still a very impressive feat no matter how you spin it.

Not always. Jedi have lost to non-Force sensitives multiple times.

Are you talking about instances where notable or skilled Force sensitives have killed Jedi, or where Jedi have been pretty much fodderized or beaten by people who aren't notable?

#38 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: As far as I'm concerned, both. But that's talk for another day.

Do you want the fight between Boba and Obi-Wan or not?

#39 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24907 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I never said it wasn't impressive, I'm just saying fodder Jedi - or - Force sensitives in general does not have the best track record.

#40 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: Would you like it in a PM or not?

Also, I'm too lazy to quote it all, and since I'm currently scanning some Qui-Gon Jinn material, I'll just scan the pages for you later.

#43 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24907 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: Thanks. I was flicking through the Darkside source book, and saw the pic - I decided it would make a great avatar.

#44 Edited by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio
#45 Posted by Killerwasp (4841 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

The Fetts are decent characters but I don't see them getting any sort of majority or stalemate. They lose.

#47 Posted by xxAcid_spitxx (124 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Edited by i_like_swords (14471 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Fetts can at the very least stalemate the TPM Kenobi round. That incarnation of the character is relatively unimpressive and has not stood up to a threat like either of the Fetts.

#49 Edited by ShootingNova (17225 posts) - - Show Bio

The TPM duo could still probably get a majority. Their synergy is still superior to the Fetts, whom have never worked together before, and they retain their speed and power edges to fall back on if necessary. Kenobi is much less versatile or adept with the Force, though, which makes either of the Fetts more dangerous to him because he lacks the ability to defend against their arsenal bar dodging.

#50 Posted by InjusticeForAll (509 posts) - - Show Bio

Kenobi solos.