The Boss vs Lady Shiva

The Boss, circa Operation: Snake Eater

DC's Lady Shiva, Pre-New 52

Round 1-

• In character
• Knowledge
• H2H combat

Round 2-

• In character
• Knowledge
• Standard gear

The Boss gets destroyed. I don't see Snake beating Batman at all and the gap here would be even bigger.

This

@gunswordfist_: How the hell did u just state that. From what i can tell u know nothing about the boss. The boss is an expert soldier with all knowledge off battle. She has a lot of experience and has developed a more effective way of judo which is cqc. The boss is an expert at cqc and has a lot more expereince than lady shiva. The boss has almost superhuman strength the fact that she carried a nuclear warhead on the bridge with one hand. That warhead is like 700 pounds and when she dropped it the bridge really shook and that was only a couple inches above the ground. She shoots the massively fast shooting patriot with no notice of recoil. She is really fast and her reflexes can dodge sniper bullets or any kind. Lady shiva does know how to predict enemy foes and is smart but the boss is smarter and has more experience. The boss is expert at stealth and has all kinds off battle knowledge. I really see snake beating batman because of his experience gotten from the boss and is better in stealth than batman. Cqc is effective and can make the weight of any man feel lighter in throwing when using this technique especially making them knock down instantly. I dont see lady shiva's predictions working on the boss with that strength. Just as an example that 700 pound nuclear warhead carried with 1 hand meaning she can probably lift up to 1500 pounds or even more because she carried it with ease. With cqc it would be that weight divided. I see sometimes batman having trouble against bane and lady shiva is probably more skilled than batman but is not enough to take down the boss or even snake and with the boss with the patriot she is d..mn near unstoppable. Lady shiva can't really do much against the boss and the boss has knowledge of lady shiva and at the same time lady shiva knowing the boss is also effective but the boss has more experience so the knowledge is more affective to her than to lady shiva. Her reflexes are that good to dodge bullets and even shoot down bullets with bullets. I dont see lady shiva having any chance here even with any blade or assasin equipment that can do anything to the boss and her no recoil with the patriot makes her extremely accurate.

I think Lady Shiva takes round one but she will probably lose round two since the boss patriot weapon is actually really powerful IIRC.

Sandra

The Boss wins all rounds. Kidding.

I agree with this.

@jashro44: She can't even manage the boss' strength and speed. The boss definately wins both rounds and cqc and in round 1 the boss is just too fast, too strong, more skilled, more experienced and has all types of battle knowledge. She is no more skilled than the boss is in h2h combat because cqc is that 1 type of judo out of all judo she learned including the forgotten types that is compressed into a more rational, precise and easier way to combat judo. Even if shiva was more skilled she can't really do much is h2h against the boss with that speed to dodge bullets and carry a warhead with 1 hand that is 700 pounds. Plus her experience and cqc skill can multiply that power and enhance the time to react to situations. The boss takes both rounds.

I don't see why not. She can paralyze the boss with one touch.

In Round 1, they get into combat and Shiva moves in quick on The Boss with her Leopard Blow.

In Round 2, The Boss has her Patriot gun since it's standard gear. But if Naked Snake can take her out, why can't Shiva?

@nerd_of_a_hero: because snake knew more about the boss and her technique and her weaknesses she hides from her foes and is also more powerful than human. Besides that snake took a beating from the boss a couple times but the boss did not agree to kill him just yet and during this mission he had to go through more than what the boss through at him and that was the time the boss knew it was the right time to reveal what snake can do against her. He had his knowledge from her and the cqc can never go to perfection. It teaches what can counter and counter the attack normally the best judo teachings can't which makes this the most powerful judo to exist.

Snake is strong enough to counter the boss and handle the patriot. I dont see shiva being able to beat the boss due to being horribly outclassed and having skill at the same time.

Did i make myself clear because you seem to be following me and saying the opposite of my posts all the time and asking questions to me after you say what i say the loser wins. Your so rude man just like the other posts i did.

@jashro44: how the hell is that going to happen. She has no superpowers meaning her hand can't go faster than a bullet. The boss can even counter enemies attacking from behind. The boss is way more skilled than any supersoldier. And this is straight h2h. Snake was no more skilled than the boss when going directly at her. That is the point in round 1. Before shiva can touch the boss she gets her arm and does ultimate knockout cqc at her. The boss never relies on sheer power. Wondering about the final part of mgs3 when the boss goes directly at snake ( proof she dodges bullets even up close ) she says " lets see what you're made off " Logic that the boss was going kinda easy on Snake.

Shiva

She doesn't need to be faster than a bullet. All though its been stated a couple of times that shiva is slightly faster than batman and he's dodged bullets after they are fired and swatted them out of the air. She also has that move reading ability as well.

@jashro44: Batman has dodged bullets but not as well as precise as the boss. If the player tries to shoot the boss while she is running after you she immediately moves sideways when she sees the hand trigger it. Even a sniper bullet for petesake. That paralyzation attack wont hit the boss. The only way i see shiva winning is that she has 4 arms. Because eventually those 2 arms are broken by then by cqc not sheer strength.

That sounds like game play mechanics. All though honestly even if its not it sounds like aim dodging as well with the way you describe it....Thats not impressive.

@jashro44: Well mgs was made a game and not a show nor comic. There is no comic or show of mgs that states these. So the gameplay mechanic shows the skill. Just like snake beating physco mantis though it seemed impossible it counts as a feat because how can he proceed through the story then.

On comicvine we mostly just use cutscenes and gauge what is shown in those. Otherwise snake would be bulletproof.

@unknowzillagod:

It's true that The Boss is a touch cookie to deal with and that it took Naked Snake some time to defeat her because Snake was still loyal to her and she's done a lot for her men and country in those years, and the fact that he was ordered to kill her to proof "America's innocence" was something that anyone wouldn't have the guts to do so. She and Snake partially invented CQC and Naked Snake took it a step further, thus surpassing his mentor. So yes, anyone that came across her was most likely got they're butts handed to them. I have no doubt in her abilities, but Lady Shiva goes out in the world everyday and fights martial artist and assassins out there to sharpen her skills and kill off anyone else that was just a waste of time. She went against Batman -- and would've lose if it wasn't for Robin's help, Beat Batgirl (Cassandra Cain) twice, fought Black Canary, made Killer Croc poke his left eye, flatten Cat woman, and beat Conner Hawke in some tournament. It's just my opinion that Lady Shiva would win.

I apologize if you feel that I'm following you around and debating you just to be rude to you because I'm really not. I just notice your username after your replied to me and remembered that we debated before, so no, I'm not following you around and being rude like the others. It's just that I've been on the forums quite for a while now on my day off and us being in this thread is just a coincidence.

?

Her daughter Cassandra Cain has dodged bullets a million times! she has dodged bullets at point blank! she has dodged sniper bullets, when they were just a few inches from her face! and sometimes she has even danced around bullets!...and when Shiva fouht her, it was shown that their speed is either equal, or cassandra is just a bit faster...so Shiva can keep up with the Boss speed for sure, actually she is probably faster...and she also has the Body Reading technique, which means that the Boss would have a hard time tagging her, and that's assuming that she would tagg her!...

Lady Shiva has mastered all forms of unarmed combat!...she learns 10 new martial arts styles every 2 years, and stops trainning the ones, that she considers to have no more use to her...she has fought, defeated and killed many Grand Masters around the globe, and assimilated their techniques to her arsenal...many characters and writters have stated that she is the best H2H fighter in the DC Universe...she has stallemated Batman...stallemated Cassandra Cain...defeated Richard Dragon on his golden days!...defeated Connor Hawke...one-shotted Nightwing...stomped David Cain, while being pregnant!...fought all members of the League of Assassins/Shadows together at the same time, and was barely defeated...so Yeah...Lady Shiva is more skilled

Shiva knows one move that can kill her oponent with just one touch...the Leopard Blow...if she is bloodlusted, she only needs to tagg the Boss once! and after she hits her, it's over.

@unknowzillagod: When Lady Shiva was 7 years old she slaughtered an entire platoon of trained mercenaries with full auto weapons and a tank all at once. In broad daylight.

It's the normal initiation to gain the title "Shiva". I don't think The Boss could replicate that feat with an assault rifle.

@jashro44: Ok prove that they just judge from cut scenes because without the gameplay and powers enemies posses that shows in the gameplay and not the cut scenes how are we supposed to understand all that they can do eg. volgin being able to bullet punch and make electricity on the ground by punching the ground. Non of the cut scenes show that the boss is being shot or dodged the bullets. @boringperson: the boss fought and still dodged bullets while she was pregnant meaning she can do better than just dodging bullets. she was in a middle of a war that time and now your saying just because of her 7 yr old experience that she can beat the boss. @bat_girl_cc: nope not gonna happen still. The boss has reflexes to dodge bullets and has her name called the joy for a reason. In her story though not mentioned in mgs3 she can go up to an army and kill them. Just an example when Snake was still at lower stats from the boss he took on 3 soldiers and ocelot while surrounded and aimed at he used cqc which countered even being surrounded. Its not the just the feats but how the technique worked in that struggle flawless and with ease. The boss is wise, smarter, skilled at cqc which is an unarmed technique which is a lot better than any type of judo combined, strong meaning her hand won't hinder if lady grabs her, fast in reflexes so why do you think lady can kill her. From the picture it shows that the boss is wearing her sneaking suit which is bullet proof and helps the body move around making it the most convenient suit to wear so it will have to be luck for lady to paralyze her. in fact luck never helps against the boss so she wins both rounds. She only needs these 2 things to beat lady: cqc and reflexes to dodge a lot more than just bullets.

@unknowzillagod:

1) The boss probably won't even be able to land any hits on Lady Shiva...she can Read Body Movements, like her daughter Cassandra Cain can...but to a lesser extent, that means, that The Boss would have to be real lucky just to land one hit

2) Lady Shiva can kill The Boss, or any other oponent she faces, with just one touch...it doesn't matter how tought she is, if Shiva hits the Boss with the Leopard Blow, it's over!

3) 3 soldiers??...you kidding??...Black Canary has defeated an entire army, with dozens, if not more than one-hundred slodiers! and they mostly didn't even noticed her...she blitzed some of them...and Shiva told her once, that if she knew at what position she is ranked in regards to the best fighters in the world...she would cry!...and Shiva is considered the Best in the World.

Shiva no doubt

@bat_girl_cc: You guys don't know anything about the boss even shiva can't hit the boss and even if shiva beat someone who dodged bullets it doesn't make any difference to how she is gonna handle the boss. The boss is more skilled than shiva and with that speed with skill makes her so much better than the other character lady fought. The boss has immense strength and faster reflexes than lady and leopard blow won't hit the boss. Try to lay a hit on the boss you'll die because any head on attack is futile which is in round 1. Her hand is not faster than a bullet so you think she can hit the boss huh. It has to be faster than a sniper bullet to hit the boss. The boss pretty much deflects and hit that they lay.

Your thinking that shiva can beat the boss because you only think of these qualities the boss has. Speed, strength.

These are the true qualities. Speed, Strength, Cqc, Wisdom, Experience, Head on cqc, Back cqc, Knock down cqc, cqc that can kill, Gun handling, durability is a fact from how snake beat the boss it took quite a lot, and can deflect faster than lady can predict.

like shiva can handle that. No way I know shiva handled the strength and speed combined, Skill, experience, and wisdom but she did not handle those all at once. That qualities with the cqc makes up snake and the boss. Maybe strength was not snake but all those were the boss. Shiva does not know cqc and the only way to counter cqc is with a higher level cqc so i don't see shiva shiva tagging the boss either.

Dodging a sniper bullet only a few inches away is not impressive. Being targeted by an a sniper from an unknown position is impressive especially if it was a sniper that had 70+ yrs of experience and is a superhuman sniper THE END. His ability to know your estimated position which most of the time works and keeps his aim steady from nature.

No way lady can lay a hit on the boss. That is more than ladies qualities and beating the best martial artists is not impressive. Those martial artist can be beaten in seconds by the boss.

You're basing your argument in what?...i already told you dude, her daughter Cassandra Cain, has performed similar Speed vs Agillity feats, to the ones that The Boss have performed

Her daughter Cassandra Cain has literally OUT - PACED a bullet!...so yeah, she's faster than bullets as well, it has been shown on panel!...and when Shiva and Cass fought, it was shown on panel that their speed is pretty much equal!...so Shiva is faster than a bullet as well!...cassandra cain has also dodged sniper bullets, when they were just a few inches from her head!...so, if cass can literally move her entire body out of a sniper bullet way, than she can DAMN SURE move her arms and hands, faster than a "normal bullet"...and in speed: Lady Shiva = Cassandra Cain...if cass is faster, it's just by a little bit...a margin so small, that hasn't been noticed in any of their confrontations.

The Boss may be an incredible fighter, but how that helps her, if she can't hit her oponent? Lady Shiva can read body movements (almost) the same way that her daughter cass can...that means, that The Boss being as faster as Shiva is, won't be able to land any hits on her.

What? The Boss has mastered a special technique?...LOL...Lady Shiva has mastered ALL FORMS OF UNARMED COMBAT IN THE WORLD!...plus, she knows other secret techniques that probably no-one knows, from fighting Grand Masters all around the globe...so whatever special technique that The Boss has mastered it, won't make a difference.

The Boss would stomp both rounds. People don't understand just how fast she is. IIRC she can shoot bullets out of the air. Also, using some ABC logic (not always sound, but it should apply here), Boss has blitzed people who blitzed people who dodged railgun fire aka Mach 7. That means her reflexive speed is a notch above Mach 7, not to mention that her hand to hand is probably equal with Shiva's.

Remember that Snake has easily dodged bullets even after they're fired and Boss blitzed Big Boss who blitzed Snake. Hell, her much worse son blitzed Snake. Snake, dodging mach 7 projectiles, is a few tiers below her in speed. That's how fast she is. And her super strength is a factor too, being able to easily wield the Patriot with one hand while most men in the military couldn't wield it with 2.

So yeah, Boss wins. Quite Easily.

And lol at her not being able tot take a platoon of special forces. That's literally what she does every tuesday before dinner. Not really, but she's done a lot more. Woman gave birth on the battlefield and kept fighting afterwards.

@darkraiden: Thank you so much for this explanation. Only fools until now think that shiva is any where near as good as the boss. @bat_girl_cc: cqc is made from the boss. She stomps both rounds. That technique in mgs3 was only mastered in by 2 people and that was snake and the boss then later spread. Cqc is not in the list of judos she learned so it is unexpected.

As i said even shiva can't hit the boss and only cqc can beat cqc. The boss has proven she can't get hit by anything. Non of the cut-scenes or story of hers show she got hit during war. All of her battles were flawless and only Big Boss who was taught by her beat her because he knows her too well and her techniques. Its like shiva's daughter being able too match up against her.

The only type of judo to match up with a cqc master is a more skilled cqc master. Never has the boss been flawed in mgs3 and snake who was like her adoptive son( no not adoptive son but mentor who has been with each other for 10 yrs) beat her.

It doesn't matter the name of that technique...cqc or any other...Lady Shiva can read The Boss body movements, so when she try to throw a punch, or a kick, she would know where the move would land, before the move been made...is The Boss as fast as Supergirl?...because Lady Shiva as dodged Supergirl's attacks...she also dodged shadow dragons attacks, and shadow dragon has landed hits on Superman!

Metal Gear Solid fans are the dumbest group of fanboys, even worse than DBZ fanboys are.

The Boss couldn't even beat a weak character like Maria Hill. The Boss has never shown bullet timing reaction speed, she's able to shoot down bullets because of the spread and power of the Patriot, not because of her own marksmanship ability.

Big Boss doesn't have the physical stats to contend with Shiva, he was nearly beaten by 4 soldiers before Eva saved him.

Yet Big Boss not only managed to beat the Boss but completely dismantle her. The only reason why the Boss ever beat on Big Boss was because he never wanted to fight her, when it was time he beat her in only a few minutes despite her having camo and the Patriot.

That's just further proof that not only is the Boss weak but she's laughable by MGS Standards.

Shiva breaks her neck 3 seconds into the match. The only reason these lob sided threads keep popping up is because the thread creator is a massive Metal Gear fanboy and doesn't read any actual comics hence being uneducated, Let the 2 MGS fanboys defending the Boss cry and try to convince themselves otherwise, it never works.

@wanderingoffinto: You are such an idiot to come here not knowing anything about the boss. By the way how do you expect the cobras to lose against snake. In groznyj grad Snake was willing to kill the boss that time. He did better and when it was their final battle she knew it was the time. I can see you becoming a dc fan. Mgs has the most unique story and if you can't understand that then you are a 10 year old or someone older acting like one.

@wanderingoffinto: Ok now prove to me that shiva can break the boss' neck. She tries to break her neck its over for shiva. Ur pretty much stating something that has no further proof that shiva will be able to beat the boss.

The boss is just too strong, too fast, too skilled ( if not skilled then the just as skilled because of cqc ), too wise and absolutely no flaws in battle.

Shiva is fast but at the same time i see her getting flawed a couple times. Although she does block attacks she is not perfect. I see her blocking from batman and blocking against the boss is no use. If batman can lay hits on shiva then why can't the boss who is much faster. Shiva reads body movement but the boss is just way too skilled for that reading to be a use. Whatever you said just now is not convincing for others without proof shiva can go near the boss. Have you ever seen the boss flawed in mgs. Have you ever seen the boss get hit before. Only in the final battle snake beat the boss and that was when snake finally knew evertthing of what the boss was teaching and had a lot of experiences getting beaten up and will not have that happen again.

The boss does win this.

Besides how the hell do you think that mgs fans don't read comics and are uneducated. U don't really know us nor do u know that probably 70% of these people do read this and are mgs fanboys. HOW THE HELL IS READING COMICS EDUCATING.

@unknowzillagod: Someone went to clown school.

@darkraiden: Pls show them that we were right. This is not a chance for shiva and the boss wins easily with skill and speed. @gunswordfist_: i dont think clowns ever go to the internet. This 10 yr old here has a crush on shiva from what i can tell.

Eh....no need. Boss has superior speed, strength, durability, etc. and comparable hand to hand. It's clear who wins.

This is so funny that I honestly thought you were trolling.

Lady Shiva beat a ninja-like cyborg and scared Killer Croc away with one hand. She curbstomps The Boss in both rounds.

Snake beat a 100 tonner in Gray Fox in hand to hand, was beaten by Big Boss, who was manhandled by The Boss. And Killer Croc constantly jobs and has no skills. Not sure what point a ninja-like cyborg has here when that's worse than the Boss in every way but w/e.

Gray Fox is barely a 100 tonner and he would demolish Snake if there were no chaff grenades. Snake beating Big Boss is a feat even a Robin can pull off. And stop pulling off this speed-blitz nonsense because none of Snakes or the Boss even showed anything near supersonic speed.

Lady Shiva, like most fictional martial artists, would be virtually meta-human in real-life. And Killer Croc wasn't jobbing because Shiva is just that good. She would pull off 10-hit Tekken combo and a Leopard blow before the Boss manages a grapple. This is the same lady who has killed her daughter, someone who can bust brick walls and eats Luke Cage-like thugs for breakfast.

Too bad Gray Fox lost....and iirc in the canon comic, no chaff grenades were used.

Snake has dodged Mach 7 railguns, dodged bullets after they're fired, dodged sniper-rifle bullets and more and been blitzed by Big Boss who was blitzed by the Boss. they're all easily supersonic in reaction speed, if not hypersonic.

Croc is always jobbing. One time he lost to harvey dent iirc. Pick a better feat. And Lady Shiva has never and can never beat anyone on Luke Cage's level. Ever. Bust down brick walls? Cool I guess, nothing compared to what the likes of Gray Fox have done, and Snake still beat him.

Boss stomps. Faster, Stronger, more durable, just as good.

Even in the comic, Gray Fox was holding back and didn't use any superhuman ability. Plus, Gray Fox went nuts and the fight had to end. Snake needed him against Metal Gear Rex because there was little he could do.

You claim Snake has this reaction speed yet he was rendered helpless by three armed soldiers before he being sent in to be tortured. If he could dodged railguns, he wouldn't need to take cover from a Hind-D. You claim Big Boss speed-blitzed but you fail to realize that Snake was old and dying and didn't have the muscle suit on. Big Boss is also a superior CQC fighter and Snake had less experience in the fighting art.

All your claims are based on fanboy fanfiction. Unlike you, I have proof that Lady Shiva stomps.

Blocks all of Catwoman's strikes with one arm

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/LadyShiva168.jpg

Dodges handgun rounds

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/68345/1974560-shiva_2.jpg

Defeats Richard Dragon, DC's best martial artist. It's a one-time deal but still impressive

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/68345/1974565-589926_richarddragon138.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/6/68345/1974566-589945_richarddragon141.jpg

Lady Shiva kicks Connor Hawke's arrows and then knocks him down

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2532/990283-ladyshiva120.jpg

Shiva beating Shadowdragon

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2532/990293-ladyshiva77.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2532/990294-ladyshiva79.jpg

Shadowdragon isn't some joke as his suit was made to double his speed so he can fight Superman

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2532/990296-shadowdragon1.jpg

Shiva giving Cassandra Cain a fight and getting the upper-hand

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2532/990112-batgirl08pg07.jpg

Before you call Cassandra Cain a nobody, she can predict physical moves

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2532/990118-batgirl_023_13.jpg

Cassandra Cain beating a Luke Cage-like metahuman

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-07.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-13.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-14.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-15.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-16.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-17.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-18.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-19.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...girl003-20.jpg

Cass one-punching a giant monster

http://s127.photobucket.com/user/GaryouTensei/media/Batgirl%20Respect%20Thread/batgirl41kebbin19.jpg.html

Cass dodging multiple bullets from a group of pistol-toting men

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...read/01302.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...read/01303.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...read/01304.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...read/01305.jpg

Cass dodging a sniper round without looking

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p131/GaryouTensei/Batgirl%20Respect%20Thread/02210.jpg

There. Proof. And you wanna say Killer Croc jobs to Lady Shiva? No.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/8/83050/1582039-shivacroc.jpg

I really hope you are trolling because if you aren't, you are easily the most deluded fanboy I have seen outside of the Naruto and Dragon Ball fanbases.

@nukea6: Croc jobbed to Shiva, get over it. Showing her winning only enforces the fact that he jobbed. And that met-human had no feats close to Luke Cage's. Luke Cage was a 25 tonner before and is a 70+ tonner now. That guy had no feats above even 5 tons. What'd he do PUSH a train car? Wow.

Some of what Snake/Boss/Big Boss can do:

dodges bullet at 2:38:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFgzKRoQ5OA

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dodges projectile at 3:18, railgun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjgVBVHc9hQ

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Big Boss blitzes Snake at 1:30:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmFVw8tnP7I

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The Fear moves fast enough to escape human sight, be invisible in first 2 minutes: And boss beat him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS_5iTz1xFI

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The Boss blitzes Big Boss 3 times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS_5iTz1xFI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qgdXLf6p1I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB6VvYvo53Y&feature=player_embedded

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Snake vs. M1 Tank, hit by tank rounds, takes it down with grenades:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXATTNSxZFg

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Snake dodges explosions and agility:

up to 3:40:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nrfwia92kBo#t=214

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I have more on what Snake could do if you want it. Like taking on a group of those super soldiers that you keep talking about (the 3 that subdued him).

@darkraiden:

I already showed you Lady Shiva defeating Shadowdragon and Cassandra Cain. You are living in denial if you think Killer Croc was jobbing especially since Shiva was using his own body to humiliate him. Plus, she can handle a cyborg ninja and a girl who one-punched a giant monster. Batman can beat Killer Croc but a much superior fighter cannot? Please.....

I will admit that I exaggerated about the metahuman being at Luke Cage level but that's still pretty impressive especially since she's doing the job mostly physical. Cassandra Cain even takes on groups of those metahumans but I don't feel like finding the scans now.

Now on your videos:
1. Acceptable but still less impressive than dodging multiple handgun shots. Not to mention, Olga gave him a fight because otherwise, she wouldn't be a boss. And she was just a human mercenary without any meta-human abilities while Solid Snake is an enhanced clone who has genes based on the best soldier that ever lived. Of course he would have to be at least low-metahuman because the Genome soldiers (said to have enhanced senses) were part of the same cloning project as Snake. Also, Liquid had quite the durability.

2. Old Snake had the muscle suit which enhances strength. It is similar to the suit Liquidus used. An old and dying Snake wouldn't stand a chance against Vamp or the B&B units.

3. Old Snake didn't have the muscle suit on and was clearly dying. Big Boss also has much more experience with CQC than Old Snake did (who only learned it when he started becoming aged). Not impressive.

4. And we see Big Boss getting tagged by crossbow bolts. So much for the supersonic reactions you claimed he had. And don't give me that "HE WAS INVISIBLE!" excuse. Shiva did fine with an invisible opponent:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/7604/1119376-ladyshiva85.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/7604/1119375-ladyshiva86.jpg
You also forget that The Fear's camouflage was in experimental stages and greatly reduced his stamina every time it's used (as stated by the the "codec" rather than using gameplay as the source)

5. The first video is the same as The Fear. The second video isn't that impressive especially since Snake had his guard down for a moment and it just shows The Boss has better reactions. Plus, Lady Shiva has done the same thing and this is just one occasion:
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva34.jpg.html

6. You're using Twin Snakes now? You do realize the is a very exaggerated version of MGS, right? Even Metal Gear fans (myself included) have called the cutscenes ridiculous. You must be really desperate now, even though Solid Snake is superior to The Boss and Big Boss. The only time Big Boss stood a chance against Solid Snake was in Metal Gear 2 where he was a cyborg.

7. Again, using Twin Snakes footage discredits you. Even so, Shiva beating Shadowdragon puts him way over that version of Solid Snake. Snake can jump off missiles and fight equal with Gray Fox? Shiva beat a cyborg ninja that impressed Superman.

Time for me to curbstomp the arguement with more scans:

Shiva humiliating Supergirl (just in case you still want to make claims about Killer Croc jobbing)
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111119260/3663618-shiva+owns+supergirl.jpg

Shiva taking on armored suits in mid-air
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva212.jpg.html
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva213.jpg.html

Shiva defeating Katana (who swats bullets like flies)
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva73.jpg.html
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva74.jpg.html
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva75.jpg.html
<snip>
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva66.jpg.htmlhttp://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva67.jpg.html
http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/LadyShiva68.jpg.html

Really, I cannot understand why anybody would think The Boss would stand any chance with Lady Shiva at this point.

@nukea6:

Old Snake needed the muscle suit just to be on normal snake's level. Then Old Snake was blitzed by old, dying Big Boss who was sick with Foxdie. Big Boss in his prime was blitzed by the Boss.

Oh and Snake got hit with the crossbolt sure, but then he proceeded to beat and tag the guy who was FASTER THAN THE HUMAN EYE CAN SEE. Yeah. And Big Boss improved through every fight, and the Boss still continuously blitzed him.

Plus I see no one on Vamp or Gray Fox's level that Shiva beat.

Boss is still superior.

Wow. This is why no one takes the MGS community (generally speaking,not all) seriously.

Uh huh.

AND btw,It's cool that Boss knows cqc,but there is absolutely no arguing that she is anywhere near Shiva's skill. It's not even close.

And beating the best martial artists in the world (including Batman) isn't impressive,but beating people that aren't even close to that level of skill/experience is??

logic

And I don't think that you understand that Lady Shiva can predict the Bosses moves before The Boss makes them. The moves aren't really predicted as they are happening. Think of it like borderline move prediction.

I agree mostly with this guy on the matter.

Many MGS arguments I've seen cannot stand on their own 2 feet,and rely on tenuous links (at best).

ROFL. Thanks for the laughs. Seriously, you made my day.

Old Snake did need the muscle suit but dodging a railgun shot was definitely something he couldn't do before (and he has gone up against Fortune before). Also worth noting that the B&B units were tougher than most of the Fox Hound units that he has fought over the years. And Big Boss wasn't dying until the Fox Die took affect just like Liquid Snake managed to survive a fall off Rex and get through a chase scene before Fox Die activated and gave him a heart attack.

The Fear isn't that fast and he cannot attack unless he stays still. Plus the stealth drains up his stamina.

What's this? Lady Shiva can't beat anyone on Vamp or Gray Fox's level?

She beats Shadowdragon

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/0/2532/990294-ladyshiva79.jpg

Shadowdragon can become invisible

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/0/7604/1119376-ladyshiva85.jp

Shadowdragon fights Superman by matching his speed

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon1.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon2.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon3.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon4.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon5.jpg.html

Shadowdragon dodging lasers and destroying robots

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon6.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon7.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon8.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon9.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon10.jpg.html

http://s151.photobucket.com/user/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/media/ShadowDragon11.jpg.html

If she can handle Shadowdragon of all people, she can eat Gray Fox and Vamp at the same time.

@nukea6:

Shadowdragon being faster than Supes is PIS like Deathstroke doing the same thing.

And Shiva's also lost to Batman who's significantly slower and weaker and worse than the Boss and Snake so....we know she can lose to skilled fighters WITHOUT super strength and speed, and Boss has all 3.

And i quote:

"A muscle suit was also built in, to compensate for Snake's reduced body strength caused by his accelerated aging"

Says compensate, as in bring him back to his previous levels. Thus his previous levels = dodging railgun projectile. pretty obvious logic.

Boss still wins via nearly equal fighting skill, greater strength, and greater speed by far.

Shiva.....

After reading your posts, i can easly tell 2 things:

1) Your knowledge about Lady Shiva = 0

2) Your knowledge about Cassandra Cain = 0

You are using feats, from a game, and you think that they are above the ones performed in real life, but you seem to forget, that what happens in comics > whatever happens in real life....what is considered super-speed in a game, is less than peak-human speed in comics...any comic book street-leveler can perform speed feats like the ones that The Boss has performed...even New 52 Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) has dodged the aim of a bullet, at least once...and she is quite possibly the weakest H2H Bat-Family member...Cassandra Cain for example, has dodged real bullets, and not just thei're aim, and she did it dozens of times, effortlessy!...she dodged sniper-bullets, danced around normal bullets...etc, and sometimes she is moving so fast, that she even looks like the wind itself for the human eye:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/20066/1110449-1095163_1017663_batgirlannual1pg224pt_super_super.jpg

I don't belive that The Boss is nearly as fast as Cassie is! and Lady Shiva is at least as fast as Cassie is.

The Boss has dodged bullets, so? How many feats like that, do you want?

Speed vs Reaction Feats:

Dodging Bullets:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/8/80103/3617331-2990825-2686286-batgirl_013___01.jpg

http://www.4thletter.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/Batgirl13pg02.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/1503015-bulletdancexq4.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/5/57378/1956918-page53_14.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7553/10299751.png

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/cassandra-cainbat-girl-and-deathstroke-vs-captain-america-and-wolverine-dc-vs-mar-17184.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/2532/875298-batgirl_017_17.jpg

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/swigsgambler/batgirlvsdeathstroke052ma.jpg

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/spidey-vs-bat-girl-cassandra-cain-18990.jpg

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/spidey-vs-bat-girl-cassandra-cain-18986.jpg

Dancing around bullets:

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/bat-girl-cassandra-cain-vs-black-panther-classic-vs-wolverine-16657.jpg

Out - running a bullet:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/132956/3483968-1952401-batgirl_speed_2.jpg

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/images/attachment/cassandra-cainbat-girl-and-deathstroke-vs-captain-america-and-wolverine-dc-vs-mar-17187.jpg

Dodging a sniper-bullet (they move 5 times faster than normal hand-guns):

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125679/3117238-2699202682-02210.jpg

Catching Shurikens with her Fingers:

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/7537/shurikenid4.jpg

And in battle, it was shown on panel, that Lady Shiva's speed = Cassandra Cain's speed

A few days ago, when i was posting on this thread, for the sake of the argument, i was assuming that Lady Shiva's speed and The Boss speed is/was equal, when obviously it's not...but even if it was, Lady Shiva can read body movements, and thus, know what move her oponent will do, before he or she does it, so it doesn't matter what special technique The Boss has mastered, cqc or any other...if it requires the use of her body, then, it's useless...because Lady Shiva would dodge it effortlessy.

Besides, Lady Shiva knows all forms of unarmed combat, and many other secret techniques that probably no-one else knows, from fighting and killing Grand-Masters all around the globe.

And for the record, Batman has NEVER defeated Lady Shiva in a fair 1-on-1 H2H fight...the one, that you are refering to, happened in one of the most horrible story arcs ever!...Batman/Superman Public Enemis...that was full of PIS, everywhere!...besides, in that fight Lady Shiva was being mind-controlled...New 52 Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) has defeated a mind-controlled Bruce Wayne...lol

Batman has stated many times, that he considers Lady Shiva the best fighter in the world!:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/11111/111115760/3313629-1400588890-18754.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/2532/990119-batgirl_023_14.jpg

Also, he has actually stated that he has never defeated Lady Shiva H2H:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/2532/990122-08.jpg