if official statements don't mean crap than this site is a lost cause... even in that picture you showed me was an official statement of omnipotence and if we are putting god aside then all official statment for any character of omnipotent character must not be omnipotent... and no you are wrong when you say that DC and Marvel are alike with omnipotence. Marvel defined what they meant by omnipotence on their web site and i think in a manual i once read. DC on the other hand never officialy defined omnipotence
God has very few feats in either comic's realm but yet he is considered omnipotent based on what they said he could do and that he was the most powerful and the fact they actually stated that he is omnipotent (that is an official statement and who said anything about official statements not being in comics?)
I don't think supes one million is above God or even equal to him (a whole lot more original than him though lol)
now what if they had never stated that the beyonder was omnipotent in the comics would he be omnipotent...? those "feats" you keep praising like him being millions of time more powerful than everything in the multiverse combined would mean nothing cause they are merely evidence and evidence doesn't mean case closed but official statement does. like if they state he is omnipresent then he is their is probaly little or no eveidence for this and the fact you can see supes one million should contradict that but the best explanation is that he has a vessel just like Jesus was to God and he is everyehwere and nowhere at once but he is invisble to everything at any given time and he becomes tangible and visible when he is needed.
comic books themselves are just statments with no clear cut evidence to prove that someone like pre-crisis superman is lifting 400 quintillion tons with one finger... sure they give you a visual and state he lifting that much, but do you really know that for sure without the statement. my point is that omnipotence isn't even perceivable to man and statements just verify the feats and official statments collect those statments/verified feats and lable the tier/power level those feats and character fall into.
lets go at this another way statments that verify feats are the beginnings, peices/parts to a comic book character... an official statement takes those and gives the character use,...puts them into a category, gives them definition. Unfortunately the creators of comic books give them poorly defined lables such as omnipotent, omnipresent, omnipercipient... and what really ticks me off is that they group them all under one omni ability, yet they don't understand what they are saying about the character. Marvels's remedy to this was to officially define it but the major drawback to this is they have to limit it to under God and also what they can do.
DC on the other hand left the definition up for interpretation but like Marvel they defined how it applied to reality and things above it. They categorized these applications Spatiality (DC and Marvel), Time (DC and Marvel), Magic (uniquely DC and also a vague term) And the drawback for them is that now you have given the audience power and you know how that goes...
It is true that the writer of DC one million left out alot feats but it certainly made alot of offficial statments that shape the characcter that is supes one million and unfortunatley though a lot of these terms are vague they are official and you must assume he has his original kryptonian powers plus oodles more from his marriage... so yeah supes one million>beyonder (prerecon)
I just wish they would rid comics of two things
1. omni based abilities 2. Comic book God (cause that really sets a ceiling limit to the writer's and reader's imagination)
if official statements don't mean crap than this site is a lost cause... even in that picture you showed me was an official statement of omnipotence and if we are putting god aside then all official statment for any character of omnipotent character must not be omnipotent... and no you are wrong when you say that DC and Marvel are alike with omnipotence. Marvel defined what they meant by omnipotence on their web site and i think in a manual i once read. DC on the other hand never officialy defined omnipotence
God has very few feats in either comic's realm but yet he is considered omnipotent based on what they said he could do and that he was the most powerful and the fact they actually stated that he is omnipotent (that is an official statement and who said anything about official statements not being in comics?)
I don't think supes one million is above God or even equal to him (a whole lot more original than him though lol)
now what if they had never stated that the beyonder was omnipotent in the comics would he be omnipotent...? those "feats" you keep praising like him being millions of time more powerful than everything in the multiverse combined would mean nothing cause they are merely evidence and evidence doesn't mean case closed but official statement does. like if they state he is omnipresent then he is their is probaly little or no eveidence for this and the fact you can see supes one million should contradict that but the best explanation is that he has a vessel just like Jesus was to God and he is everyehwere and nowhere at once but he is invisble to everything at any given time and he becomes tangible and visible when he is needed.
comic books themselves are just statments with no clear cut evidence to prove that someone like pre-crisis superman is lifting 400 quintillion tons with one finger... sure they give you a visual and state he lifting that much, but do you really know that for sure without the statement. my point is that omnipotence isn't even perceivable to man and statements just verify the feats and official statments collect those statments/verified feats and lable the tier/power level those feats and character fall into.
lets go at this another way statments that verify feats are the beginnings, peices/parts to a comic book character... an official statement takes those and gives the character use,...puts them into a category, gives them definition. Unfortunately the creators of comic books give them poorly defined lables such as omnipotent, omnipresent, omnipercipient... and what really ticks me off is that they group them all under one omni ability, yet they don't understand what they are saying about the character. Marvels's remedy to this was to officially define it but the major drawback to this is they have to limit it to under God and also what they can do.
DC on the other hand left the definition up for interpretation but like Marvel they defined how it applied to reality and things above it. They categorized these applications Spatiality (DC and Marvel), Time (DC and Marvel), Magic (uniquely DC and also a vague term) And the drawback for them is that now you have given the audience power and you know how that goes...
It is true that the writer of DC one million left out alot feats but it certainly made alot of offficial statments that shape the characcter that is supes one million and unfortunatley though a lot of these terms are vague they are official and you must assume he has his original kryptonian powers plus oodles more from his marriage... so yeah supes one million>beyonder (prerecon)
I just wish they would rid comics of two things
1. omni based abilities 2. Comic book God (cause that really sets a ceiling limit to the writer's and reader's imagination)
"
Superman Prime 1,000,000 is not above the Beyonder. Do you have any evidence (or even an offical statement) that SM 1mil could erase "Death" from the multiverse? No, you dont, because he never did anything that magnanmous and it was never stated that he could do anything even close. SP 1mil could not even save the universe in the post before, because it happened too fast.
I agree with the 2 things that need to be removed from comics.
I think we are misinterpreting each other's meaning, so let's define a few things (and their priority here on the vine):
1st - Annotative visual evidence (usually most important on the vine): This is a visual refrence with annotation depicting its qualtities. Things like , Superman lifting 400 Quadrillion Tons with one hand, The Hulk lifting 150 bilions tons of rock, The Beyonder eliminating Death.
2nd - Visual Refrences: Feats you see in the comics possibly missing details that leave it open to interpretation. A universe being destroyed and someone who was "there" surviving, when they could have easily just jumped dimensions to avoid the destruction as opposed to enduring it.
3rd - Submissions by respected cosmic entities: Things stated by cosmic entites not given to exhageration, in reguards to another being. The Watcher asking for Molecule Man's help with the Beyonder. Living Tribunal stating his power comes from that which dwarf's the Infinity Gauntlet.
4th - Submissions by high level beigns (Herald/Skyfather): These are often misread as fact (especially when realting to Omni-XXXX. They are scewed by the limits these beings have - just like mortals eventhough they are nigh-immortal.
5th - Other Submissions in the comics by characters (with varying degrees of importance/aceeptance depending on the respect a character has - i.e. Mr. Fantastic is to be beleived more than Batman when dealing with cosmic level events).
6th - Submissions/declarations in comics by the writters, with out visual evidence or acceptable extrapolation - Writter blurbs that so and so is now stronger than so and so, but we never see any verifiable evidence of it. Or the writters blurb that so and so can do this, but they never do - and we never see them in a place of respectable standing that puts them on par with others that have done it in the past.
562nd - Things we take for granted - TOAA is top dog in the MU and the Presence is top dog in the DCU.
923rd - Statments/submissions that writers make off panel in blurbs, interviews, blogs, comments, feeback pages, etc . . . They can say all they want about how powerful something is, but until they show us it is worthless speculation.
"feats don't matter it was what was stated about one million that counts official statments>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feats as evidence"
Not really. Too many "Official" statements have said this character or that character are Omnipotent, Omnescient, Omnipresent, Omnitemporal, etc . . . Very few characters can ever truly say this - TOAA, The Presence, Thanos with the Heart of the Universe (which made him TOAA).And if you want to go by Official Statments - The Beyonder's power in the previous pic was described as "Millions times more than all the rest the power in the multiverse combined" That BTW would include the TOAA of marvel. Making The Beyonder (pre-retcon) greater than TOAA. "
That would be true. But TOAA is beyond a multiverse. TOAA = Omniverse. PR Beyonder is probably a megaversal being.
" @Lance Uppercut: TOAA and The living tribunal can only be found on THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE. Omniverse contains ALL THE UNIVERSES of DC, Marvel and the other comic books. "
http://img102.imageshack.us/i/omniis2yp2.jpg/ < Official Marvel Handbook excerpt.
"the Living Tribunal also helped fashion the twin Entities the BROTHERS, each of whom became the guardian of a different Megaverse, within the larger Omniverse but encompassing MORE than a single Multiverse"
The LT rules over and judges them both. He exists in EVERY multiverse simultaneously (on panel, by the way, meaning he inhabits the megaverses and greater omniverse).
Now do you really need to know the reasoning behind TOAA controlling and creating the omniverse? I've stated it a billion times. TOAA consists of the comic companies writers. Without them, there is no 'omniverse', no megaverse, nothing whatsoever. PR Beyonder cannot be above them because the writers decide it's actions. Thus, there is no greater being in comics then the writers. I don't understand why that's so hard to grasp.
" @Lance Uppercut: Found what I was looking for "adventures of the x-men" #12, iirc. they were retconned from the supreme beings of marvel/DC, into megaverses that existed solely within marvel comics, and were also < LT. "
That explains things then. Still, it proves that TOAA did in fact create the omniverse. The Marvel Omniverse.
" @Lance Uppercut: Found what I was looking for "adventures of the x-men" #12, iirc. they were retconned from the supreme beings of marvel/DC, into megaverses that existed solely within marvel comics, and were also < LT. "
That explains things then. Still, it proves that TOAA did in fact create the omniverse. The Marvel Omniverse. "
" @Lance Uppercut: Found what I was looking for "adventures of the x-men" #12, iirc. they were retconned from the supreme beings of marvel/DC, into megaverses that existed solely within marvel comics, and were also < LT. "
That explains things then. Still, it proves that TOAA did in fact create the omniverse. The Marvel Omniverse. "
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals.
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals. "
Mxy erased the enitre DC multiverse, and then recreated from nothing, by his whim. and yes PR Beyonder could do the same. That's why I said they're equals
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals. "
Mxy erased the enitre DC multiverse, and then recreated from nothing, by his whim. and yes PR Beyonder could do the same. That's why I said they're equals "
whoa whoa whoa... I remember Mxy erasing a DC Universe... but not the entire DC Multiverse
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals. "
Mxy erased the enitre DC multiverse, and then recreated from nothing, by his whim. and yes PR Beyonder could do the same. That's why I said they're equals "
whoa whoa whoa... I remember Mxy erasing a DC Universe... but not the entire DC Multiverse "
Yea it was the entire multiverse. you didn't see when they erased the DCAU?
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals. "
Mxy erased the enitre DC multiverse, and then recreated from nothing, by his whim. and yes PR Beyonder could do the same. That's why I said they're equals "
The difference is that "World's Funniest" was a joke comic and not cannon!
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals. "
Mxy erased the enitre DC multiverse, and then recreated from nothing, by his whim. and yes PR Beyonder could do the same. That's why I said they're equals "
The difference is that "World's Funniest" was a joke comic and not cannon! "
Jeez, man. How much times must it be proven that it was? And even if so, by your opion this battle shouldn't take place, since PR Beyonder doesn't exist either
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals. "
Mxy erased the enitre DC multiverse, and then recreated from nothing, by his whim. and yes PR Beyonder could do the same. That's why I said they're equals "
The difference is that "World's Funniest" was a joke comic and not cannon! "
Jeez, man. How much times must it be proven that it was? And even if so, by your opion this battle shouldn't take place, since PR Beyonder doesn't exist either "
To my information it has never been proven and most other reputable viner's have agreed on this point.
PR Beyonder was originally TOAA, before they named TOAA.
@gobstakid777 said:
" @Tevnoba said:
" @gobstakid777 said:
" World's Funnest Mr. Mxyzptlk Elaine Belloc Imo he is way above the HOTU or any "Supreme Being" Characters such as TOAA, Presence, MoM, etc. "
Then your logic is flawed. "
how so? his feats don't lie "
Elaine Belloc is not above The Presence, TOAA or THOTU, at best they are euqals. PR Beyonder was supposed to originally be TOAA. All Myx did was erase the multiverse, PR Beyonder could have done the same, he was planning on it but then decided not to. So they are not above, and at best equals. "
Mxy erased the enitre DC multiverse, and then recreated from nothing, by his whim. and yes PR Beyonder could do the same. That's why I said they're equals "
The difference is that "World's Funniest" was a joke comic and not cannon! "
Jeez, man. How much times must it be proven that it was? And even if so, by your opion this battle shouldn't take place, since PR Beyonder doesn't exist either "
To my information it has never been proven and most other reputable viner's have agreed on this point. "
"World's Funnest" (that's what it's actually called, not "World's Funniest", but I digress) is definitely NOT canon. If anyone has ever bothered to look, there is a clear label on the front of the comic that says "Elseworlds". And Mxy is not even CLOSE to beings such as the Presence, One-Above-All, or Man of Miracles. If anyone remembers Day of Vengeance, the Spectre (fully unbound, that is) depowered Mxy, meaning that he's not the big omnipotent being that some people like to claim he is.
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