Hey guys!
I'm getting into the martial arts world of the DC Universe and I'd like to know who are, in your opinion, the best fighters in the DC Universe. I know that Lady Shiva's on top (;P), Richard Dragon, Connor Hawke, but what about the others: Batman for instance. I always thought (like most probably) that a guy who is a master in 127 styles of combat is the best human fighter in the DC Universe..... So who is it then?
The best martial artist in the DC Universe...
This topic is locked from further discussion.
This thread has been done before, here is the link: The Top 10 Fighters in the DCU
Enjoy!
" Karate Kid "This.
If we were referring to characters who are street level, it would be between Dragon, Shiva, and Cassandra.
Classic Karate Kid, Nemesis Kid and Batman One Million.
3-boot Karate Kid, is around Karnak, so while he is good, he isn't hands down the best ever.
" @FinalStar86 said:And Bronze Tiger." Karate Kid "This. If we were referring to characters who are street level, it would be between Dragon, Shiva, and Cassandra. "
"Classic Karate Kid, Nemesis Kid and Batman One Million."Easily one of the best fighters.
If you want to go at a insane scale than Karate Kid easily
On a terrestrial scale
Bronze Tiger, Richard Dragon, Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain a case can be made for each
"I would vote Cassandra, although i'm an Azrael man. "
Azrael isn't the greatest. I don't consider him the best fighter, but I'm still a huge fan.
@thegentlemanrogue said:
"Classic Karate Kid, Nemesis Kid and Batman One Million. 3-boot Karate Kid, is around Karnak, so while he is good, he isn't hands down the best ever. "
Yep. Alot of people tend to forget Batman is a martial artist.
" @Formidable 1 said:Skill level he's close, but KK has way more power behind hit shots which puts him above everybody. Plus KK knows way more styles of MA.I love Bronze Tiger but NO WAY NO HOW is he anywhere near classic Karate Kid level. KK could beat Kryptonian level beings with martial arts- WAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond BT. "" Tie. Bronze Tiger/karate Kid "
" @Formidable 1 said:They are both unaltered humans who have studied nearly every style of martial arts and Bronze Tiger has more experience as he is older. Bronze tiger can duplicate any technique that karate kid can perform with equal effect if not greater.I love Bronze Tiger but NO WAY NO HOW is he anywhere near classic Karate Kid level. KK could beat Kryptonian level beings with martial arts- WAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond BT. "" Tie. Bronze Tiger/karate Kid "
" @beatboks1 said:Completely and utterly incorrect. Ben had only two masters in martial arts the first of whom he fled from because he was being used. The second was O-sensei (who also trained Richard Dragon, Shiva and Batman in pre COIE continuity not sure if this is still the case for Shiva in current post COIE canon, but is for the others). Even when he was brain washed by the League of assassins he received no more training. His only training is in Kung Fu. Since he has been stalemated or beaten by Bruce Wayne, Shiva and Cassandra he can not be the "best"." @Formidable 1 said:They are both unaltered humans who have studied nearly every style of martial arts and Bronze Tiger has more experience as he is older. Bronze tiger can duplicate any technique that karate kid can perform with equal effect if not greater. "I love Bronze Tiger but NO WAY NO HOW is he anywhere near classic Karate Kid level. KK could beat Kryptonian level beings with martial arts- WAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond BT. "" Tie. Bronze Tiger/karate Kid "
Even if he had studied every martial art (which he hasn't) he would still not be a match for KK because KK has studied every martial art from 30 centuries into the future. So in essence he's studied every art that Ben could possibly have learned plus every art that will be developed for the next 300 years plus every art from every alien race unknown to Earth in this era.
" @Formidable 1 said:This - But BT has flat out beaten Bruce with prep." @beatboks1 said:Completely and utterly incorrect. Ben had only two masters in martial arts the first of whom he fled from because he was being used. The second was O-sensei (who also trained Richard Dragon, Shiva and Batman in pre COIE continuity not sure if this is still the case for Shiva in current post COIE canon, but is for the others). Even when he was brain washed by the League of assassins he received no more training. His only training is in Kung Fu. Since he has been stalemated or beaten by Bruce Wayne, Shiva and Cassandra he can not be the "best". Even if he had studied every martial art (which he hasn't) he would still not be a match for KK because KK has studied every martial art from 30 centuries into the future. So in essence he's studied every art that Ben could possibly have learned plus every art that will be developed for the next 300 years plus every art from every alien race unknown to Earth in this era. "" @Formidable 1 said:They are both unaltered humans who have studied nearly every style of martial arts and Bronze Tiger has more experience as he is older. Bronze tiger can duplicate any technique that karate kid can perform with equal effect if not greater. "I love Bronze Tiger but NO WAY NO HOW is he anywhere near classic Karate Kid level. KK could beat Kryptonian level beings with martial arts- WAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond BT. "" Tie. Bronze Tiger/karate Kid "
Ah yes. Thanks for the refresh. But still, Bruce took every precaution for the rematch as BT did beat him previously in Detective Comics #485. Old issue, but still happened. IMO if he can stalemate Bruce with prep he is > Bruce without." @mattek: No he hasn't they stalemated until Bats got shot with a dart. "
Don't get your panties all in a bunch." @Formidable 1 said:
" @beatboks1 said:Completely and utterly incorrect. Ben had only two masters in martial arts the first of whom he fled from because he was being used. The second was O-sensei (who also trained Richard Dragon, Shiva and Batman in pre COIE continuity not sure if this is still the case for Shiva in current post COIE canon, but is for the others). Even when he was brain washed by the League of assassins he received no more training. His only training is in Kung Fu. Since he has been stalemated or beaten by Bruce Wayne, Shiva and Cassandra he can not be the "best". Even if he had studied every martial art (which he hasn't) he would still not be a match for KK because KK has studied every martial art from 30 centuries into the future. So in essence he's studied every art that Ben could possibly have learned plus every art that will be developed for the next 300 years plus every art from every alien race unknown to Earth in this era. "" @Formidable 1 said:They are both unaltered humans who have studied nearly every style of martial arts and Bronze Tiger has more experience as he is older. Bronze tiger can duplicate any technique that karate kid can perform with equal effect if not greater. "I love Bronze Tiger but NO WAY NO HOW is he anywhere near classic Karate Kid level. KK could beat Kryptonian level beings with martial arts- WAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond BT. "" Tie. Bronze Tiger/karate Kid "
O-sensei (which is the JAPANESE term for teacher...SIFU is the chinese term) Studied nearly all of the styles of kung fu (there are nearly 300 styles of kung fu..."kung fu" is not a style in and of itself) . Almost every style of kung fu is complete and has techniques for every range and eventuality and are the predecessors for nearly every martial arts style (the copycat styles missed a great deal of the closed door and hidden techniques so they are not complete) so in essence Bronze tiger has studied every technique there is. So while I am wrong, and Bronze Tiger hasn't studied every style or styles from aliens, he knows every technique that the human body is capable of. Bronze tiger also defeated batman and karate kid has been defeated by batman and nemesis kid killed him (still a defeat regardless of nemesis kids powers).
If Karate kid has studied 30 centuries of martial arts from our planet and many, many other worlds he would likelyonly have time to practice each technique once and would likely be 100 years old before practicing each and every move only one time (it would likely take much longer).
"I dont fear tthe man who has trained 10,000 kicks one time, I fear the man that has trained one kick 10,000 times"- Bruce Lee
With those things stated I have researched Karate Kid and because of the outrageous feats that they show him performing that no human could accomplish no matter what the style or how much training (stopping a meteor with a karate chop?) I concede that Karate kid will defeat Bronze tiger based on these impossible feats.
1. There aren't any where near 300 styles of Kung fu. I know it can get confusing when many forms are known by two or three names." @beatboks1 said:
Don't get your panties all in a bunch." @Formidable 1 said:
" @beatboks1 said:Completely and utterly incorrect. Ben had only two masters in martial arts the first of whom he fled from because he was being used. The second was O-sensei (who also trained Richard Dragon, Shiva and Batman in pre COIE continuity not sure if this is still the case for Shiva in current post COIE canon, but is for the others). Even when he was brain washed by the League of assassins he received no more training. His only training is in Kung Fu. Since he has been stalemated or beaten by Bruce Wayne, Shiva and Cassandra he can not be the "best". Even if he had studied every martial art (which he hasn't) he would still not be a match for KK because KK has studied every martial art from 30 centuries into the future. So in essence he's studied every art that Ben could possibly have learned plus every art that will be developed for the next 300 years plus every art from every alien race unknown to Earth in this era. "" @Formidable 1 said:They are both unaltered humans who have studied nearly every style of martial arts and Bronze Tiger has more experience as he is older. Bronze tiger can duplicate any technique that karate kid can perform with equal effect if not greater. "I love Bronze Tiger but NO WAY NO HOW is he anywhere near classic Karate Kid level. KK could beat Kryptonian level beings with martial arts- WAAAAAAAAAAAAY beyond BT. "" Tie. Bronze Tiger/karate Kid "
O-sensei (which is the JAPANESE term for teacher...SIFU is the chinese term) Studied nearly all of the styles of kung fu (there are nearly 300 styles of kung fu..."kung fu" is not a style in and of itself) . Almost every style of kung fu is complete and has techniques for every range and eventuality and are the predecessors for nearly every martial arts style (the copycat styles missed a great deal of the closed door and hidden techniques so they are not complete) so in essence Bronze tiger has studied every technique there is. So while I am wrong, and Bronze Tiger hasn't studied every style or styles from aliens, he knows every technique that the human body is capable of. Bronze tiger also defeated batman and karate kid has been defeated by batman and nemesis kid killed him (still a defeat regardless of nemesis kids powers).
If Karate kid has studied 30 centuries of martial arts from our planet and many, many other worlds he would likelyonly have time to practice each technique once and would likely be 100 years old before practicing each and every move only one time (it would likely take much longer).
"I dont fear tthe man who has trained 10,000 kicks one time, I fear the man that has trained one kick 10,000 times"- Bruce Lee
With those things stated I have researched Karate Kid and because of the outrageous feats that they show him performing that no human could accomplish no matter what the style or how much training (stopping a meteor with a karate chop?) I concede that Karate kid will defeat Bronze tiger based on these impossible feats. "
2. less than 40% of the martial arts in the world are derived from (or influenced by) the Chinese arts of Kunf fu (for example none of the Korean or Thai styles are, many Malaysian aren't as well as Indian or middle eastern.
3. You can accept that someone who trained under a master who trained in many art forms is as good as trained in all of those of the master but someone from the future in order to study all the martial arts has to study each one separately with total dedication. Double standard much ???
Here's a list of Martial arts (it excludes 40 USA martial arts derived from Eastern Style art forms and 170 ish traditional western martial arts (like Greco Roman Wrestling etc)
Forms and styles are two different things. A form is a sequence of movements and techniques within a style.
1. There aren't any where near 300 styles of Kung fu. I know it can get confusing when many forms are known by two or three names.
Yes, there actually are nearly 300 styles of kung fu, possible more (I will get to the many systems you neglected to mention as well as your erroneous information later). To re-iterate: forms or sets are sequential movements within specific styles. Many styleshave similary named forms, But Styles typically may have different spellings or pronunciations such as Bagua/Pa Kua or Hsing Yi/ Xing YI as opposed to Wing chun and Ving Tsun which are actually different systems albeit quite similar.I know it can get confusing when you haven't actually studied under multiple Sifus or spent years researching martial arts history, and most of your knowledge is gleaned from wiki or a few days surfing the net or utilizing search engines.
@beatboks1 said:
This arbitrary percentage is completely erroneous and impossible to quantify. You either made this up or your source is less than credible. Tae Kwon Do, a korean style, is heavily influenced by northern (IShantung) Shaolin and derived its kicks from and Hapkido combines Tae Kwon Do strikes with Jiu Jitsu Locks and throws learned in Japan and Jiu Jitsu is an amalgamation of Chin na (Qin Na) or "shackle hands" and later evolutions of Shuai Jiao, a chinese art pf wrestling that is the precursor to Judo Also. Thai boxings kicks are Northern Shaolin Leg techniques. And an "indian" named Bodidharma actually created the first martial exercise forms called the Muscle change classic ,Marrow washing forms and Eighteen Movements of the Enlightened One. The Chinese later developed a style based on these forms called Chuan fa or "fist way" or "fist law" which incorporated rudimentary five animal elements and many other styles were developed from that point.2. less than 40% of the martial arts in the world are derived from (or influenced by) the Chinese arts of Kunf fu (for example none of the Korean or Thai styles are, many Malaysian aren't as well as Indian or middle eastern.
@beatboks1 said:
3. You can accept that someone who trained under a master who trained in many art forms is as good as trained in all of those of the master but someone from the future in order to study all the martial arts has to study each one separately with total dedication. Double standard much ???
My point was that Bronze Tiger Knows every technique that the human body is capable of. Also there are only so many minutes in a day and it would be impossible for Karate Kid to Master or even practice all of the techniques of 30 centuries and multiple worlds of Martial arts in his short life span. There was no double standard you simply did not understand what you had read or chose to pretend as if you did not.
@beatboks1 said:
Here's a list of Martial arts (it excludes 40 USA martial arts derived from Eastern Style art forms and 170 ish traditional western martial arts (like Greco Roman Wrestling etc)
I know you spent a lot of time surfing the net and linking these arts to make it seem as if you were somehow well versed in kung fu "lineage" but you made many errors and omitted many chinese styles.
Here are some of your many errors:
-Lama Pai is actually a Tibetan martial art not a chinese one
-Fu Jow Pai has a black tiger form but is known as Tiger Claw and not Black Tiger and is a contemporary culmination of many tiger styles.
-Jeet Kune Do is actually an American system as Bruce lee was born an american citizen.
-Ninjutsu is not a fighting style, Tai-justu is the fighting style Ninjas use.
-Northern (Shantung) and southern (fukien) kung fu styles even if similiarly named such as northern or southern dragon are completely different styles in and of themselves.
Here are the Chinese Martial arts you missed.
1.) White Lotus
2.) Emperors longfist (yes this is different from Ordinary Longfist (Chang chuan)
3.) Internal White tiger. (yes this is a much different art than either external fukien (generally accepted as referring to southern) or Shantung (generally accepted as referring to northern) Shaolin tiger forms.)
4) Chin-na (an art in and of itself but is incorporated in many kung fu styles)
5.) Linear Paqua/Bagua (yes it is a completely different style)
6.) Eight Drunken Immortals.
7.) Drunken Monkey
8.) Iron Buddha
9.) Honan Shaolin
10.) White Eyebrow
11.) Eagle Claw
12.) Iron Palm (yes it is an actual style)
13.) Iron fist.
14.) Dim Mak
15.) Lions Roar.
16.) Jiaoli
17.) Duck Boxing
18.) Fohan Quan
19.) Tai-mantis
20.) Elephant style.
And many more little known styles from a myriad of provinces that simply did not get popularized. Next time don't try to pretend to be an expert simply because you did some searches on various search engines and wasted a lot of time linking them to seem more knowledgeable than you actually are.
I trust this has been enlightening.
Alot of people are saying Lady Shiva is on top, but Batman kicks her ass every time. That makes him top dog.
Cassandra Cain? She's good, but not better than Batman.
The only guy I see posing competition to Batman is The Sensei.
@beatboks1
Yes, there are more than 200 styles of Kung fu, so it may possibly be near 300. I'm wondering if you got your list from the internet... Because all Martial arts aren't listed on the internet.. There are also many variations of umbrella martial arts that can count as their own style. Black Lion, Lion, Tiger, White Tiger, Black Tiger, Leopard, White lion, etc..... All share similarities, but are separate styles...... Same with Crane, Eagle, White Swan, Golden Eagle, etc.....
I study Kung Fu, and my Shih-Yeh told me that there are over 200. He is a very knolwedgeable man, he is the first American to ever win a World Martial Arts Competition, he is known all throughout China, and he is personal friends with Donnie Yen (actor who played Ip Man in the movies 1 and 2, someone else played a younger version in 3).
I'd trust him over some random list.... No offense........
The list goes something like this...
-Lady Shiva
-Cassandra Cain
-Bronze Tiger
-Richard Dragon
Not necessarily in that order, but those four are definitely near the top.
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