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#1 Edited by Tohoma (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Robin, Batgirl, Batwing and Catwoman are transported to the Marvel universe. There the batfamily decides to take on the Avengers. Not wanting to be caught off-guard the batfamily decides to take a year of preparation and observation. During this year Batman, Nightwing and Red Robin join the Avengers. Can the batfamily subdue Earth's mightiest heroes.

Members of Avengers: All that sided with the avengers initially in the Avengers vs X-men event

Scenario 1:

State of Mind: Bloodlusted batfamily, IC Avengers

Scenario 2:

State of Mind: Everyone is Blood lusted

Edit: All of the batfamily's gear and materials including the Batcave and Wayne's wealth transferred over as well.

Edit 2: Pre-52 and New 52 feats can be applied

#2 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

avengers win

#3 Edited by rpottage (863 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers win; you left out the Bat-family's best member (Alfred).

#4 Posted by Tohoma (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage said:

Avengers win; you left out the Bat-family's best member (Alfred).

Why?

#5 Posted by rpottage (863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tohoma said:

@rpottage said:

Avengers win; you left out the Bat-family's best member (Alfred).

Why?

Why what?

#6 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

A year of prep? People underestimate what Batman can do with prep. Does he have all his money? I guess he goes around with the Avengers and fights all the criminals, eventually learning a weakness/exploitable vulnerability and uses that to the best. Who's all on the Avengers team? Hulk and Thor would be the only problems if it's the roster I'm thinking of.

#7 Posted by Tohoma (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage: Sorry I meant to say how do the Avengers win?

#8 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't read AvX..I'm proud of it.

Who's on Avengers side?

#9 Posted by rpottage (863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Tohoma said:

@rpottage: Sorry I meant to say how do the Avengers win?

Batman get's himelf injured way too much and eventually killed because Alfred wasn't there to do all the things he needs Alfred to do. The rest fall apart without Batman. Thus they don't really get to the fight.

#10 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

Avengers with ease, an Bats with prep is the most overated thing on this site.

#11 Posted by HyperViper97 (1342 posts) - - Show Bio

No Alfred? Bats die

#12 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

A year of prep? People underestimate what Batman can do with prep. Does he have all his money? I guess he goes around with the Avengers and fights all the criminals, eventually learning a weakness/exploitable vulnerability and uses that to the best. Who's all on the Avengers team? Hulk and Thor would be the only problems if it's the roster I'm thinking of.

And you have underestimate the capability of Iron Man and Black Panther too, especially current incarnation. With prep, Stark made the disruptor to break the Pheonix...and siphoning energy from Jupiter to fight Magneto. And Black Panther is Marvel's Batman, both equal in intellect...

so tell me, what Bat-family can do to them? left alone Thor, whom can solo the whole bat-family when blood-lusted.

#13 Edited by rpottage (863 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan said:

@Batman242 said:

A year of prep? People underestimate what Batman can do with prep. Does he have all his money? I guess he goes around with the Avengers and fights all the criminals, eventually learning a weakness/exploitable vulnerability and uses that to the best. Who's all on the Avengers team? Hulk and Thor would be the only problems if it's the roster I'm thinking of.

And you have underestimate the capability of Iron Man and Black Panther too, especially current incarnation. With prep, Stark made the disruptor to break the Pheonix...and siphoning energy from Jupiter to fight Magneto. And Black Panther is Marvel's Batman, both equal in intellect...

so tell me, what Bat-family can do to them? left alone Thor, whom can solo the whole bat-family when blood-lusted.

They don't have prep.

The bat-family lose because Batman's useless without Alfred. That's why when Alfred quit, Bruce gave up the mantle, had to re-train, gave up the mantle again, and completely changes his life around; resulting in Nightwing tracking Alfred down and making him return since they need him.

Now if Alfred where in the scenario; he would use the year of prep to lace everyone's food with micro-explosives and upgrade his walking stick with antarctic vibranium (the anti-metal). Then when Hulk was in Banner form; he'd activate the nano-explosives to kill everyone. The only one who might survive would be Thor; at which point Alfred would use his upgraded anti-metal walking stick to destroy the metal in Thor's hammer. That alone could kill Thor, but even if it doesn't Alfred would just beat the weakened Thor to death.

So without Alfred the Bat-family loses, with Alfred: Alfred solo's.

#14 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan: You do realize that only the Bat-Family has prep? OP states that they join the Avengers. The Avengers have 0 prep and 0 knowledge of what's going on. Tell me who is on the Avengers team because I'm not that keen on anything with Marvel. Batman has made the Insider Suit. He can also use Vibranium and even find the schematics of Iron Man's different armor and make a suit fitted to him. Sooooooo, he can make a Hulkbuster and a Thorbuster. For the rest of the Bat-Family, Idk what they'd do.

#15 Posted by Saren (25313 posts) - - Show Bio

Damian solos.

Moderator
#16 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage: .........Are you just trolling or....

#17 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

@GodDamnIronMan: You do realize that only the Bat-Family has prep? OP states that they join the Avengers. The Avengers have 0 prep and 0 knowledge of what's going on. Tell me who is on the Avengers team because I'm not that keen on anything with Marvel. Batman has made the Insider Suit. He can also use Vibranium and even find the schematics of Iron Man's different armor and make a suit fitted to him. Sooooooo, he can make a Hulkbuster and a Thorbuster. For the rest of the Bat-Family, Idk what they'd do.

Well, Dick Grayson and Jason and the rest of the family are also geniuses, and Tim Drake is supposedly smarter than Bruce, so i could see it going pretty well for them aswell.

#18 Posted by rpottage (863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

@rpottage: .........Are you just trolling or....

No, I'm serious. After the events of Knightfall, Alfred quit and left Gotham. While he was gone Bruce Wayne quit twice, had to re-train, and started making major changes to his life and personality. Nightwing tracked Alfred down and convinced him to come back (after Alfred took down a London terrorist organization).

That was just a few months. Batman cannot function properly for an entire year in a new universe without Alfred which would lead to his downfall.

With Alfred there, it's the opposite. Alfred is militarily trained to the point he was a former British SAS member, he's the only member of the Bat-family allowed to use a gun, he's well trained in martial arts (such as when he knocked Hush down and took the man's gun from him), and he's been captured many times only to subdue his attackers and get out by himself. He's considered to be as well trained as Batman (or almost as well-trained), and just as resourceful; only he's also willing to use a gun and kill.

He's a master spy/master special forces agent who's been around Batman more than anyone else. I you give him a year of prep as a spy inside the Avengers, and give him all of Batman's resources; and you bloodlust him, then he's going to o some serious damage.

People just often downplay Alfred because they don't realize how well trained he is, nor do they realize how much Bruce relies on him.

#19 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage: Is Alfred all that you say he is? Yes, that's a fact, but you saying the Bat-family loses because they don't have Alfred is just........ retarded. Even if, you over-analyzed this. Alfred is a non-factor in a just about all of these battles, so how would he matter in this? It's not like they fight the Avengers everyday of that one year. They join the Avengers and use the year to study up on them.

@CalebHara: That's true. I guess all of them can make some sort of suit. That wouldn't be necessary though. The big threats are Hulk, Thor and Iron Man. I guess Dick and Tim would need a suit to help with them. All that said, this is NOT a stomp in the Avengers' favor.

#20 Posted by NeonGameWave (7703 posts) - - Show Bio

Bat Family.

#21 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242:

The Avengers have 0 prep and 0 knowledge of what's going on.

This is what Ironman can do without prep:

you do know Rulk has superhuman reaction speed right? Without prep, Ironman has fought powerful opponents than Batman did...even Batman has a year prep, his skill in engineer got WAY out-classed by Tony. His technopathic ability allowed him to hack into Batman's computer system anyday.

I'm not that keen on anything with Marvel.

Go pick up some issues, then I'm sure you will change your mind about this debate.

Batman has made the Insider Suit. He can also use Vibranium and even find the schematics of Iron Man's different armor and make a suit fitted to him.

Again, another comparison between Insider & Iron Man. I know Insider Suit, just because it has a Speed Force mode and a Willpower mode, fanboys like you believe that makes Batman as fast as Flash or as powerful as Green Lantern? it only taps into a portion of the Speed Force... it is nothing like when Flash uses it, and no where in the same scale either. There's no proof it can even move at Mach 2. There is no proof that it can channel energy on the same scale as an actual Green Lantern. So, please leave Insider Suit alone, before you embarrass yourself and Batman.

Sooooooo, he can make a Hulkbuster and a Thorbuster.

Seriously? do you have proof that Batman had made an armor that combined that mystism and technology?

#22 Posted by ImmortalT1000 (3170 posts) - - Show Bio

@jackofspades said:

avengers win

#23 Posted by LordMasterGod (216 posts) - - Show Bio

a year of prep and undercover? massive spite

#24 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman should be able to win with a year of prep. Considering one of his plans very nearly brought down the JLA, the Avengers should fall.

Bloodlust is important here too, as if Batman is willing to kill that really changes things.

#25 Posted by Tohoma (1380 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Lunact_And_Manic said:

I didn't read AvX..I'm proud of it.

Who's on Avengers side?

Pretty much everyone on the left side of the cover.

Avengers Vs. X-Men #1 Cover
#26 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan: You're not exactly getting what I'm saying. I wasn't comparing the Insider Suit to any of Iron Man's. I just used it as an example to say that Bruce can make a suit that's capable of things that Iron Man can, and especially if he can get his hands on any schematics on Tony's.

This is what Batman has done with prep. I know for a fact that you're going to say that wasn't him that did all of that. That is true, but, those were his plans and theories and they worked just as he wanted them to if the time ever came that he needed to use them. The only person who can be excluded from the plan is Wonder Woman, because she had to fight someone who was on her level and Bruce would've had to drug her.

The Tower of Babel arc is basically what this thread is about, but with the Avengers. It's basically asking if Batman can do to the Avengers what he did to the Justice League, but along with help from other family members.

#27 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

What the hell is Batman gonna do to Red Hulk, Thor, Iron Man, Spider Woman, Vision, Wolverine, Spiderman, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Black Panther, or Ant-Man? Hell, that's not even all the Avengers that were in AvX. Team Bats get stomped hard.

#28 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@CaptainDoeo: The guy has prep and team members to boot. He doesn't have to fight them all at once either. He can just take them down one by one like in ToB.

#29 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

I am leaning towards the Avengers here. Unless someone can come up with the details of how they are taking each of the Avengers down. Several of the Avengers can solo the Bat Family.

#30 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: This is basically like Tower of Babel. Batman is on the team, learns about them all. Batman with prep of any sort is already a serious danger, if he is actually behind enemy lines learning more and more about em everyday, it heightens the chance of him winning. He doesn't have to hit them all in one battle, he can take em out one by one. If you haven't read Tower of Babel, I suggest you do. He can get Vibranium and maybe even that fruit from BP. He can also get schematics from Iron Man and make his own suit and add Insider Suit capabilities to it as well.

#31 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242: I have read it. I just don't know that scenario is going to work here. Several of the Avengers are as smart as Batman.and one year is not going to buy him the trust that he had with Justice League. Is Red Robin even old enough to be an Avenger? I just don't see them taking him.

#32 Posted by Shawnbaby (10449 posts) - - Show Bio

Couple of things regarding "Tower of Babel"

1. Batman's plan were to take out the individual members of the JLA in the event they were to go rogue or be mind-controlled etc.. The only reason the plan worked was because the individual JLA members were separated...had they all been together at the point the attacks were made...The plan would probably have failed.

2. The plan was put together through years of observation.

3. Some of it is just dumb. Kyle basically walked up and told Batman how to take him out of play. Not exactly the work of the World's Greatest Detective. And the Hypnotic Suggestion...honestly...Let's put aside that the GL's are supposed to have incredibly strong willpower and that it should be near impossible to plant such a suggestion in the first place...Why bother? If you can get close enough to Kyle to plant the suggestion and put his ring on...why not just put a bullet into his brain? Or...in Batman's case, since his plans were only to disable and capture the JLA, why not just slap some batcuffs on him? Or...if you really need to plant the suggestion...Why Blind him? Why not Plant a suggestion for him to just turn himself over to the police or something? Blinding him still leaves him in the possession of the one of the most powerful weapons in the universe. I imagine that if he decided to throw a Hissy-Cow...he could still make a pretty damn big mess before anyone stopped him.

4. Pretty sure it isn't even canon anymore.

#33 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: He doesn't have to really gain their trust like that, only if he wants something like schematics and that fruit. Him and Tony both being playboy, billionaire philanthropists might get along quite well. His fortune can get him to eventually meet T'Challa and win his trust somehow. Yes, alot of em on the Avengers are smart, but in this post, they don't have knowledge of what Bruce is doing, so he can do what he has to do and gain an advantage

#34 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242: I really doubt the Panther is going to trust him. There are way too many intelligent people on the team with military or spy backgrounds for this to really be viable.

#35 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: Bruce doesn't have to reveal that he is Batman. I'm almost sure he can start to build a trade with Wakanda for it's Vibranium. OP did say he has all his money and Waynetech. He still has Tony who he will at a chance of 90% can gel with.

#36 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242: The Panther really doesn't trust anyone. Him and Tony might get along but that doesn't mean that this plan is going to work. The New 52 versions of the Bat Family are far less experienced. I just don't see them pulling this off.

#37 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: Oh, were using New 52? Ha, I was using pre-crisis. Well, if this is New 52, he has little to no chance. 'Cause like you said, he's far less experienced. Give New 52 a year or so and they can do much better.

#38 Posted by charlieboy (7153 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242: The rules of the forums are that it is current version unless stated otherwise.

#39 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy: Well then, the Avengers murder. All of what I said was in vain. Oh well, the OP should fix that.

#40 Posted by Sci_Fi_Rulez (1059 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

A year of prep? People underestimate what Batman can do with prep. Does he have all his money? I guess he goes around with the Avengers and fights all the criminals, eventually learning a weakness/exploitable vulnerability and uses that to the best. Who's all on the Avengers team? Hulk and Thor would be the only problems if it's the roster I'm thinking of.

this

#41 Posted by Shawnbaby (10449 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

@charlieboy: Well then, the Avengers murder. All of what I said was in vain. Oh well, the OP should fix that.

The OP is fine.The mistake is yours for assuming Pre-New 52

@charlieboy said:

@Batman242: The rules of the forums are that it is current version unless stated otherwise.

#42 Posted by e3zombie (720 posts) - - Show Bio

1 year prep? I am giving this to the bat family.

#43 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242:

You're not exactly getting what I'm saying. I wasn't comparing the Insider Suit to any of Iron Man's.

Nevermind, I just think you overrated the ability of the Insider suit.

I just used it as an example to say that Bruce can make a suit that's capable of things that Iron Man can, and especially if he can get his hands on any schematics on Tony's.

I don't think so. Like I said before, Stark has better feats in building technological weapons...it has taken down cosmic beings. Tony outclasses Bruce in terms of Engineering. Stark's security system is top notch in MU, after the Extremis virus injected in his body, he no longer stores file in his computer or any other electronics system, his body is basically a walking supercomputer, Which can't be "Hacked".

This is what Batman has done with prep. I know for a fact that you're going to say that wasn't him that did all of that. That is true, but, those were his plans and theories and they worked just as he wanted them to if the time ever came that he needed to use them. The only person who can be excluded from the plan is Wonder Woman, because she had to fight someone who was on her level and Bruce would've had to drug her.
The Tower of Babel arc is basically what this thread is about, but with the Avengers. It's basically asking if Batman can do to the Avengers what he did to the Justice League, but along with help from other family members.

Again, ToB story arc... like what @Shawnbaby: has mentioned, the whole story arc is PIS, and Bruce himself has spends more than a few years to plan. Besides, no one in JL is as smart as both Stark & T'Challa, somehow I think Parker is smarter than everyone in JL (original 7,except Batman).

The most important is that, this is new52 Batman he doesn't shown to be able to take down the whole team as powerful as the Avengers, left alone two of the Smartest Man in their own Universe.

#44 Posted by rpottage (863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

@rpottage: Is Alfred all that you say he is? Yes, that's a fact, but you saying the Bat-family loses because they don't have Alfred is just........ retarded. Even if, you over-analyzed this. Alfred is a non-factor in a just about all of these battles, so how would he matter in this? It's not like they fight the Avengers everyday of that one year. They join the Avengers and use the year to study up on them.

@CalebHara: That's true. I guess all of them can make some sort of suit. That wouldn't be necessary though. The big threats are Hulk, Thor and Iron Man. I guess Dick and Tim would need a suit to help with them. All that said, this is NOT a stomp in the Avengers' favor.

No, Batman simply cannot go an entire year in an completely new universe without Afred there. Alfred's the guy who keeps Bruce grounded, who patches him up, who keeps Bruce in line. Alfred's the guy who keeps Batman from completely going over the edge.

And true, they don't fight the Avengers for the year; but they do join them which means Batman will be fighting villains for that year. Bruce needs Alfred there to keep him grounded and patched up with all those fights.

And they really don't need suits. They've been given a year of prep as an inside spy; there are many things they could do to take the Avengers down if they can't just kee it together for the year. (Nano-explosives in their food and drinks is just one example.)

#45 Posted by rpottage (863 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

@Batman242: The Panther really doesn't trust anyone. Him and Tony might get along but that doesn't mean that this plan is going to work. The New 52 versions of the Bat Family are far less experienced. I just don't see them pulling this off.

Eh, not really. Batman's history pretty much remains intact. While others are less experienced; Batman still had the years of training, still had his solo hero gig, and still had multiple Robins: Nightwing, then Jason, then Tim, and now Damian. Which mens Batman, Robin, and Batgirl are all quite experienced; and Tim is still at least pretty experienced. Jason's still experienced enough to be Red Hood, etc.

So really most of the Bat-family are quite experienced because they have to be in order for the rest of the Bat-family to exist.

#46 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan: You make it seem as if the OP stated that the Avengers know that Bruce is planning something. They have 0 knowledge of anything that's going on, so how does their intelligence become a factor in this? Bruce can just go up to Tony as a fellow playboy, billionaire and I'm pretty sure that the two of them will eventually get along. That doesn't require any sneaking around or getting pass security. How is it PIS? Probably Superman's alone was PIS, but they were in character and Batman's theory was based on some of their characters. He has more than one plan for each of the Leaguers. It's not like he's fully depending on one plan to get it done.

Yes, since this is New 52, I will admit that they will lose due to the lack of experience. If it was pre-crisis, they could have done this.

#47 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@rpottage: When we say experienced, we mean all of the different story arcs and plots that gave him more knowledge and more prep to get jobs done. The ones that involved the League and such. He doesn't know that much so he's most likely to lose if not definitely.

#48 Posted by soaringturkeys (414 posts) - - Show Bio

Bat Family.

Heck if Hawkeye nearly took down the Dark Avengers in Dark Reign with nearly no prep, then I can see Batman finding flaws and cracking weaknesses in everyone in a years time.

He could make them turn on each other, he could seperate them and incapacitate them without alerting his intentions. Seriously as powerful as some people are, 1 year of prep is a bit of a favour for the Bat Family

#49 Posted by emmbro30 (249 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

Avengers with ease, an Bats with prep is the most overated thing on this site.

Agreed! Avengers all the way!

#50 Posted by Charlie_Jade (523 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor has no kryptonite, he has no fire weakness, he has no vulnerability to yellow....no weakness at all. He can tank shots from the Bat all day long and it will barely make him blink

He's going to be one of the impossible Heroes to put down,

Batman would need to move faster than Wonder Woman and strike as hard as Supeman to take out Thor

not to mention other massive hitters

like Sersi, Quasar, Speed, Havok, Hazmat, Photon, Jack of Hearts, Ms Marvel, Hulk etc