The Avengers Vs. Injustice league

He's not getting hacked withStark and Pym being on the team. Lex isn't superior in the tech dept than those 2. So try again

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

He's not getting hacked withStark and Pym being on the team. Lex isn't superior in the tech dept than those 2. So try again

what's stopping Lex from hacking Vision if Grodd has already mind raped both tony and pym, and Lex has hacked BRAINIAC someone who is beyond Stark and Pym in every aspect ..... so yeah, how about you try again, not like you had an argument in the first place though ... (>_>)

You are lowballing the Avengers. Pym created Ultron, pretty sure they will know how to stop Lex from hacking Vision. What's going to stop Stark from hacking Lex? You really think Lex is better than Stark with tech? You basing your argument on assumptions.

Avengers

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

You are lowballing the Avengers. Pym created Ultron, pretty sure they will know how to stop Lex from hacking Vision. What's going to stop Stark from hacking Lex? You really think Lex is better than Stark with tech? You basing your argument on assumptions.

and you don't have an argument to begin with, I am not basing my argument off of assumptions, I am stating fact, Lex Luthor IS a better hacker and technician than Stark and Pym, Ultron has a major weakness to being weaker in the inside than he is on the outside so Pym creating him isn't that big a deal especially if it took him an extended period of time to do it, Lex creates super powered beings to do his bidding and has a suit that he can fight Superman with, he tangles with Brainiac, hacked him, and snapped his neck. So stop bringing up Ultron where he doesn't belong ... Whats gonna stop Tony from hacking Lex? Lex stops Tony from hacking Lex, and if he can't then Grodd picks up the slack and mind rapes everyone. There, now why don't you stop whining about how I list the facts about how the Avengers lose here and back up what you say instead like how me and many others in this thread have done.

Oh, and I bet you couldn't even explain how I'm low balling the Avengers at all, I'm simply stating that there are things the ILA has that they don't even have answers for and thus cannot counter regardless of prep. Not to mention that many of the people on the Avengers team can even utilize prep that well, same with some people in the ILA, but the fact that the ILA has more people with a wider range of useful powers and abilities along with a few geniuses like Lex, Grodd, Slade, Joker, and Captain Cold is what makes tips this battle in their favor .... almost no one has an answer for Grodd's TP besides Vision cus he's a robot, Grodd has shown that he can use his TP on multiple subjects at once and he also has TK .... But .... Vision has also been defeated by physical means ... he's been ripped in half by she-hulk ... Lex doesn't even have to fight Vision at all since Grodd can stop everyone via TP and tear Vision apart with either TK or his bare hands.

@blackadamFTW said:

Well, for the Injustice League, you have two JSA soloers, someone fast enough to stalemate Zoom, someone who's been capable of controlling Superman, someone who consistently reacts to Flash, two gods with prep, and a pretty powerful telepath.

I wouldn't count out the Injustice League.

Stalemate Zoom? Huh? :/
BB

@Billy Batson said:

@blackadamFTW said:

Well, for the Injustice League, you have two JSA soloers, someone fast enough to stalemate Zoom, someone who's been capable of controlling Superman, someone who consistently reacts to Flash, two gods with prep, and a pretty powerful telepath.

I wouldn't count out the Injustice League.

Stalemate Zoom? Huh? :/
BB

It wasn't a competetive race (Zoom obviously would have won), but Bizarro was able to keep up with him pretty evenly.

@Ancient_0f_Days: Good post.

I doubt that Ivy's pheromones can affect T'challa through his suit as it's defended him before from various infections and air-born viruses. As for Hercules, he's resisted far more powerful as well and isn't exactly easily swayed over. I see no problem with Ivy going down quicker than you believe.

Wonder Man has held his own against Thor and while not defeating him, it's proved he's more than a match for the God of Thunder so he isn't exactly a push-over. As for Lex hacking Vision, he'll only be able to do so if he see's him coming. Being blood-lusted, I doubt he'll give Lex that benefit. Tony will be a good counter for Lex as well.

Never said that Bizarro wasn't fast, I stated that he doesn't utilize his speed as much as you believe him to. He fights like a brick and rarely uses his speed primarily in battle and both those scans prove absolutely nothing in regards to combat speed, simply travel speed.

Again, I don't see Grodd solo'ing this at all.

Now,I'm not sure wat Cap Cold this is,but his newer version has metahuman powers and can stop Flash!So,Quicksilver is a non-factor.And I keep hearing BA goes after Thor,when he doesnt have to.BZ can fight Thor and BA can just go around calling Shazam and moving.(LOL jk) Lex in his suit?Iron Man goes down.He went down aganist Hulk(i know WB hulk but still)And Lex suit is on Superman level(SMH).Ant-Man is a non-facot.I personally believe Slade takes Cap down fast.IF BA takes his shield and pass it to Slade then alot of Avengers are in trouble.Grundy and Hulk fight,but BA hits him with a Shazam and moves.Just forget it.IJL wins!

Black Adam - Thor , Vision and Ms. Marvel

Grundy - Hulk and She-Hulk

Bizarro - Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man

Grodd - Quicksilver and Wanda

Captain Cold - Iron Man

Lex Luthor - Giant-Man

Deathstroke - Captain America and Black Panther

Poison Ivy - Tigra and Wasp (no men to pheremone)

Joker - Hawkeye

Catwoman - Yellowjacket

I think the Avengers take this.

Black Adam can take a lot of people here by himself so i'll say Injustice League.

IL for me

Many of them can take out a large portion of the Avengers.

Mind Resistance: Thor has the ability to resist the mental influence of powerful beings. He resisted a mind thrust attack of the Regellians, the magical music of Ares, a mental attack from Glory, Morgana le Fay's attempt to dominate his mind, resisted the power of the Eye of Horus, and the mind blast of the Super-Beast.

Vision is too.

Very good match up, especially after reading through the debate and getting rid of character biases that first pop up from the title...lol.

Question though...in a battle like this where prep is allowed, is there a standard database of info that both teams would use? If not, then how does say Lex prep for Hulk (who by looks alone wouldn't show his ridiculous healing factor/regeneration or rage growth = strength/durability growth) or T'Challa prep for Grundy or Grodd (who again have appearances that may hint at strength alone)?

@robertloucksjr said:

Black Adam - Thor , Vision and Ms. Marvel

Grundy - Hulk and She-Hulk

Bizarro - Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man

Grodd - Quicksilver and Wanda

Captain Cold - Iron Man

Lex Luthor - Giant-Man

Deathstroke - Captain America and Black Panther

Poison Ivy - Tigra and Wasp (no men to pheremone)

Joker - Hawkeye

Catwoman - Yellowjacket

I think the Avengers take this.

Yeah? And what makes you think that the matches will go like that?

You're just putting the match-ups so that the Avengers get the win.

Avengers.

@ImmortalOne said:

@robertloucksjr said:

Black Adam - Thor , Vision and Ms. Marvel

Grundy - Hulk and She-Hulk

Bizarro - Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man

Grodd - Quicksilver and Wanda

Captain Cold - Iron Man

Lex Luthor - Giant-Man

Deathstroke - Captain America and Black Panther

Poison Ivy - Tigra and Wasp (no men to pheremone)

Joker - Hawkeye

Catwoman - Yellowjacket

I think the Avengers take this.

Yeah? And what makes you think that the matches will go like that?

You're just putting the match-ups so that the Avengers get the win.

Yep, the Avengers could conceivably win all of them. Feel free to do the same for the IL.

@blackadamFTW said:

@Billy Batson said:

@blackadamFTW said:

Well, for the Injustice League, you have two JSA soloers, someone fast enough to stalemate Zoom, someone who's been capable of controlling Superman, someone who consistently reacts to Flash, two gods with prep, and a pretty powerful telepath.

I wouldn't count out the Injustice League.

Stalemate Zoom? Huh? :/
BB

It wasn't a competetive race (Zoom obviously would have won), but Bizarro was able to keep up with him pretty evenly.

Well yeah, because Zoom let him. The only real way to keep up with Zoom is having infinite speed.
BB

Black Adam - Thor , Vision and Ms. Marvel Grundy - Hulk and She-Hulk Bizarro - Hercules, Namor, and Wonder Man Grodd - Quicksilver and Wanda Captain Cold - Iron Man Lex Luthor - Giant-Man Deathstroke - Captain America and Black Panther Poison Ivy - Tigra and Wasp (no men to pheremone) Joker - Hawkeye Catwoman - Yellowjacket I thought Yellowjacket and Henry Pym was the same person?Well here's my thoughts.:Black Adam would kill Ms.Marvel and Vision fast.Thor Would be a match,but he goes down.BA strength is much higher than Thor.Not by alot,by its higher.Hulk and She-Hulk wont be able to Kill Grundy,so that fights drag on.And if BA finish Thor off fast,She-Hulk will be in a grave yard.Grodd can mind rape Quicksilver.And since he has force field Scarlet wont be able to hurt him.All bad for her.Bizarro will finish Hercules fast.And Namor cant last outta water to long.And I dont think WM can hang with a Bloodlusted BZ.Plus he's being prep and amped up by Lex.(Wat I mean by amped is that they going to put thought in his head like go all out).Lex in Armor vs Giant Man?Lol its a Stomp in Lex Favor.Deathstroke aganist Cap and BP is tricky.But he's taken on Teen Titans and JL before and held his own.O say he win in a tough fight while someone else finish their match up off and come and help.Poison Ivy?Not sure about her but I hear she can control plants at will.Hawkeye will understate the Joker.And Joker will kill him.And Yellowjacket/Giant Man is the same person right?And Cap Cold can hold Iron man off.I dont see either 1 winning without help!

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Good post.

I doubt that Ivy's pheromones can affect T'challa through his suit as it's defended him before from various infections and air-born viruses. As for Hercules, he's resisted far more powerful as well and isn't exactly easily swayed over. I see no problem with Ivy going down quicker than you believe.

True, Ivy probably cannot poison Panther due to properties of his suit. Doesn't mean she has to specifically, she can restrain him and many of the weaker members some of who can defend themselves from the pheromones effects and those who can't will start attacking the other Averngers for her. Hercules wouldn't have to worry about the pheromones i guess since you say he is resistant enough and i'll take your word for it, but he does have to worry about the Avengers who do get effected by them such as Namor, Giant Man and Yellow Jacket. Captain America obviously can't do much if he's caught in it and personally I think Hulk could be too, Nature soothes his mind and he has been mind controlled (probably not by plants) before. Perhaps it is the pheromones specifically that he could resist, but Ivy's are still quite strong especially with prep (since she doesn't know what to expect, all she and her team can do is simply amplify what they already have, same with the avengers) due to this he could be turned by Ivy as well. Ivy probably won't go down at all if she isn't out in the open (she never is out in the open), I've given scenarios of where she'd be completely protected from any kind of harm such as staying within the range of Lex Luthor's energy shield/Captain Cold's Sub-Zero Shield/Grodd's TK shield. I don't see anyone getting too close to Ivy anyway.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days:

Wonder Man has held his own against Thor and while not defeating him, it's proved he's more than a match for the God of Thunder so he isn't exactly a push-over. As for Lex hacking Vision, he'll only be able to do so if he see's him coming. Being blood-lusted, I doubt he'll give Lex that benefit. Tony will be a good counter for Lex as well.

Wonder Man may not be a push over, but Simon was practically going all out against Thor while Thor clearly wasn't and when he got serious he ended the fight with a slightly charged hammer throw to Simon's chest. The top three bricks of the ILA can do better than thet since they would be going all out and have alot more furiousity to their attacks. Also lets not forget how Wonder Man got hammered by a serious Gladiator ... that could be replicated by Adam, should he choose to engage Simon in battle. Lex is behind shields and Vision's density control would be in peril due to Captain Colds sub-zero shield as well which would ultimately shift his density and solidify him due to his molecules expanding from exposure to extreme cold. Then he'd either be frozen (unlikely since he's a solar battery and shoots sun beams) or analysed by Luthor and shut down. Tony probably wouldn't be able to help since Grodd could mind control people like Ms Marvel, Wasp etc to attack him and other members of the Avengers who haven't been taken by Ivy's pheromones. Stark can't help vision if he is too busy fighting off his own teammates.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days:

Never said that Bizarro wasn't fast, I stated that he doesn't utilize his speed as much as you believe him to. He fights like a brick and rarely uses his speed primarily in battle and both those scans prove absolutely nothing in regards to combat speed, simply travel speed.

His travel speed can be implemented in this battle since they don't start right in front of each other. Bizzaro does occasionally use his travel speed to charge into his targets head on, so he can start off a fight by charging into his opponent and if he does use his travel speed he could heavily damage someone like Hercules or Hulk and moderately damage someone like Thor, or completely obliterate someone like Wonder Man/Namor/Ms Marvel. So his travel speed isn't totally useless in this scenario, and in the heat of battle, his strength and abilities (fire breath, freeze vision etc ..) would be quite useful against the other bricks he's up against. And @IZZR already provided scans of Bizzaro speed blitzing Black Lantern Grundy into the Sun .... I'll re-post it ...

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556477-1932213_bizarro_vs_grundy_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556478-1932214_bizarro_vs_grundy___copy_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556479-1932215_bvg2_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556480-1932216_bvg3_super.jpg

Based on this, I'd say Bizzaro can take on both Herc and Hulk at the same time as well as the other group of lower level bricks.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: Again, I don't see Grodd solo'ing this at all.

*sigh* ... look, Imma lay it down like this ... Grodd can influence the minds of many opponents at once, many of the Avengers don't have a defense for this. Some can possibly resist it, but there are more that can't. Should Grodd go apesh!t crazy on them, he can turn the majority of the Avengers against the ones that can resist him. Since he still has prep, he can simply reconstruct the device he used to steal the minds of those around him and add their intellect to his own, strengthening his psychic/telepathic/telekinetic powers, he did this once to overpower Martian Manhunter in a mental assault. He was thwarted due to J'onn's own telepathic potential being greater than his still, but that isn't the case here. I'll go down the list of people that can be taken by Grodd:

• Giant Man
• Wasp
• Yellow Jacket
• Black Panther
• Quicksilver
• Ms Marvel
• She-Hulk
• Tigra
• Hawkeye
• Captain America
• Wonder Man
• Namor
• and Scarlet Witch

Hulk is questionable since he was able to be mind controlled by Thanos who commented on the simplicity and weakness of Hulk's mind, then in WWH Xavier cannot get into Hulks head for the life of him. Thor has been mind controlled by Loki in the past, but also has a record of resisting such mental attacks from other foes as well. Iron Man has been manipulated by Mandarin for a long time, but at times his suit can defend against mental assaults. Hercules like you said has resisted mental attacks in the past, of what degree I am not sure. And Vision cannot be mentally assaulted because ... he's a robot. Like I said in the beginning, Grodd can turn this 18 vs 9 (or 18 vs 1 in this case) into a 5 vs 22 (5 vs 14). Grodd can simply sit back and chill while the Avengers tear each other apart, Scarlet Witch would make this much easier for Grodd to accomplish. And if Grodd simply decided to put on his mind transference device, he could absorb the minds of the 13 Avengers who can't do anything about it and have enough mental strength to overpower the 5 who were able to resist it earlier. With the minds of Hank Pym and Prince T'challa, Grodd can bypass whatever mental blocks Hulk, Thor, Herc and Iron Man have. To deal with Vision Grodd can either use telekinesis on him or tell the other Avengers to dismantle him the best way they know how ....

But ... like I said ........ Grodd can solo, if you still disagree, then formulate an argument and a scenario in which they could prevent this from happening. Until then, ILA stomps

@Ancient_0f_Days:

injustice league grundy has rediculous durability and strength he could take hulk, BA has time and time again made capt. marvel look like a chump a hero whos supposed to at least in thoery be equal to supes plus his magic which is gifted to him from the GODS (MULTIPLE GODS) thor is cooked if he thinks he can take BA alone but with the Avengers numbers he probably wont be and lets be honest luthor, joker, and slades intelligence rivals bruces so with 2 days prep it doesnt matter how much of a genius stark is its 3 brains vs 1 plus the fact that bizzaro is a alternate universe supes under the control of luthor who is a genius but the numbers are on thee avengers side so i see this as either a draw or the injustice league squeaking out a victory

The League wins. The only real threat I think is the Scarlet Witch who's become a walking PIS canon lately.

@Immortal777 said:

@Ancient_0f_Days:

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

@quirky_anecdotes said:

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

I can't stop laughing at the idea that you have no idea what you are talking about, Iron Man and Ant-Man both have been owned by Hulk in the past. Lex Luthor creates armor to take down a kryptonian that moves at light speeds and can split the moon in half with ease.

Your bias is showing.

@quirky_anecdotes said:

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

I cant stop laughing at your obvious stupidity,Iron-Man and Ant-Man are both humans with money and tech just like Luthor.

@Deranged Midget said:

@IZZR said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days: I don't deny that Vision could be dispatched in that manner by any of the powerhouses on the DC team, but as for prep, DC is outnumbered and Slade isn't exactly anywhere on the level of Lex, Tony, Pym, or T'Challa besides the tactical stand-point.

Yes intelligence wise hes nowhere near their level, but with Lex on his team and his personal tactical brilliance hes a monster

Indeed, but I'd argue that Cap is as equally proficient as Slade when it comes to strategy and tactical warfare.

Nah not really,Slade takes on teams of superheroes with prep.He's an expert at finding weaknesses(both physical and mental),people give Cap way to much credit.He's competent and quick on his feet but I have seen absolutely nothing that puts him above Nightwing or Daredevil.Infact I find Bucky to be more smarter in combat.

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@quirky_anecdotes said:

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

I can't stop laughing at the idea that you have no idea what you are talking about, Iron Man and Ant-Man both have been owned by Hulk in the past. Lex Luthor creates armor to take down a kryptonian that moves at light speeds and can split the moon in half with ease.

Your bias is showing.

@entropy_aegis said:

@quirky_anecdotes said:

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

I cant stop laughing at your obvious stupidity,Iron-Man and Ant-Man are both humans with money and tech just like Luthor.

@IZZR said:

@quirky_anecdotes said:

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

LMAO its people like you that make me wanna poke my own eyes out lol, both tony and hank use tech for their "powers" just as Lex does but unlike them Lex has actually made himself a cosmic being at one point, replicated Supes powers and so much more, Iron Mans battlesuit can barely hack being out of Earth's atmosphere while Lex actually fights in space using his suit. you do the math.

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

Avengers

Avengers.

Also I can't stop laughing at the idea that some bald rich guy can stand up to the likes of Iron Man and Ant-Man.

You know...Guys with actual superpowers.

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

personally I think Hulk could be too, Nature soothes his mind and he has been mind controlled (probably not by plants) before.

Yes, more of the lesser minded fighters on the team will be more easily controllable, I agree. But Hulk has resisted mind control countless times from the Leader, so while he might be consumed early on, his chances of breaking free are high.

Wonder Man may not be a push over, but Simon was practically going all out against Thor while Thor clearly wasn't and when he got serious he ended the fight with a slightly charged hammer throw to Simon's chest. The top three bricks of the ILA can do better than thet since they would be going all out and have alot more furiousity to their attacks. Also lets not forget how Wonder Man got hammered by a serious Gladiator ... that could be replicated by Adam, should he choose to engage Simon in battle. Lex is behind shields and Vision's density control would be in peril due to Captain Colds sub-zero shield as well which would ultimately shift his density and solidify him due to his molecules expanding from exposure to extreme cold. Then he'd either be frozen (unlikely since he's a solar battery and shoots sun beams) or analysed by Luthor and shut down. Tony probably wouldn't be able to help since Grodd could mind control people like Ms Marvel, Wasp etc to attack him and other members of the Avengers who haven't been taken by Ivy's pheromones. Stark can't help vision if he is too busy fighting off his own teammates.

I never stated that Simon would prove to be a deciding factor in battle nor would he be able to defeat any of the three power-houses on ILA individually, but that while grouped up with his other teammates, he could prove a worthwhile distraction to slow them down to give their team a chance to recuperate or provide an opening for Thor and the other powerhouses. Is there proof that Captain Cold could really be able to compromise Vision? If it's unlikely for him to freeze Vision, what are the chances of him really affecting his outer shell due to mere exposure to cold?

His travel speed can be implemented in this battle since they don't start right in front of each other. Bizzaro does occasionally use his travel speed to charge into his targets head on, so he can start off a fight by charging into his opponent and if he does use his travel speed he could heavily damage someone like Hercules or Hulk and moderately damage someone like Thor, or completely obliterate someone like Wonder Man/Namor/Ms Marvel. So his travel speed isn't totally useless in this scenario, and in the heat of battle, his strength and abilities (fire breath, freeze vision etc ..) would be quite useful against the other bricks he's up against. And @IZZR already provided scans of Bizzaro speed blitzing Black Lantern Grundy into the Sun .... I'll re-post it ...

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556477-1932213_bizarro_vs_grundy_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556478-1932214_bizarro_vs_grundy___copy_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556479-1932215_bvg2_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57507/2556480-1932216_bvg3_super.jpg

Based on this, I'd say Bizzaro can take on both Herc and Hulk at the same time as well as the other group of lower level bricks.

Yes, I've seen the fight he's had with Grundy from Blackest Night. It's a decent feat, but how much it would pertain to opponents unless BFR was allowed. Albeit, he will be able to blitz and possibly eliminate the street level characters such as Wasp, Clint, and possibly Cap. Problem is, as I've stated before, it's uncommon for him to constantly blitz his opponents in battle, especially if he believes they don't cause a immediate threat to him as Black Lantern Grundy did after ripping his heart out.

But ... like I said ........ Grodd can solo, if you still disagree, then formulate an argument and a scenario in which they could prevent this from happening. Until then, ILA stomps

You've thrown up good facts, irrefutable facts for the most part. I can agree that Grodd might be the deciding factor for the Injustice League and that alone and honestly, if the mind-control wasn't allowed, it would be a different bout, but I know when to concede. Grodd has the best chance of turning the majority of the Avengers against each other.

@blackadamFTW: No one on the injustice league can solo the JSA except maybe luthor with prep.

Avengers would win read below how i think the matches would play out,

Avengers win HErcules and Thor could take BA and Namor and Hulk could take Bizarro. Add Wonderman for good measure as a supporter and the Avengers have powerhouses on lock.

Catwoman would lose to Tigra.

She-hulk should smash Grundy.

Captain America with his prep and hawkeye as a supporter should be able to dispatch slade.

Hank Pym and Wasp with prep could take out captain cold.

Ironman and Vision in most scenarios could take down luthor with prep

Mrs Marvel would curbstomp Grundy and Ivy

Avengers win I havent even had to use the entire lineup

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

Yes, more of the lesser minded fighters on the team will be more easily controllable, I agree. But Hulk has resisted mind control countless times from the Leader, so while he might be consumed early on, his chances of breaking free are high.

indeed, but if he were controlled for even a short amount of time the damage he could do to his team is immense ... but yes I agree that eventually Hulk could break out before things get too messy. Actually, I was considering the fact that he might be resistant to pheromones to a certain degree which would also play a part in how long the effects are.

@Deranged Midget said:

I never stated that Simon would prove to be a deciding factor in battle nor would he be able to defeat any of the three power-houses on ILA individually, but that while grouped up with his other teammates, he could prove a worthwhile distraction to slow them down to give their team a chance to recuperate or provide an opening for Thor and the other powerhouses. Is there proof that Captain Cold could really be able to compromise Vision? If it's unlikely for him to freeze Vision, what are the chances of him really affecting his outer shell due to mere exposure to cold?

I know you didn't say Wonder Man would be a deciding factor, I was just pointing out how he really wasn't all that much of a true match for Thor since Thor held back most of the fight. Wonder Man is capable of being a distraction, but not truly for long if one of the two flying bricks decide to engage him directly. But yes Wonder Man would be the most capable of providing support for any of the main bricks on his team if they needed it.

@Deranged Midget said:

Yes, I've seen the fight he's had with Grundy from Blackest Night. It's a decent feat, but how much it would pertain to opponents unless BFR was allowed. Albeit, he will be able to blitz and possibly eliminate the street level characters such as Wasp, Clint, and possibly Cap. Problem is, as I've stated before, it's uncommon for him to constantly blitz his opponents in battle, especially if he believes they don't cause a immediate threat to him as Black Lantern Grundy did after ripping his heart out.

I'm not saying that he'd do it constantly ... he'd most likely do it the start. I doubt he'd target any of the street levelers though, I mean if he even flew at them at speeds like that they'd get splattered all over the place. Which is why he'd probably engage one of the bricks like that, he wouldn't fly off with them but he could just charge into them head first. Wonder Man, Ms Marvel, Namor, Herc or Hulk wouldn't see it coming should he target either of them, Thor would be the only one to counter such an assault due to his decent reaction feats. But no, Bizzaro wouldn't constantly blitz the team, he'd just start with a charge into battle since they start from a distance. It'd make sense to, but then again this is Bizzaro we're talking about.

@Deranged Midget said:

You've thrown up good facts, irrefutable facts for the most part. I can agree that Grodd might be the deciding factor for the Injustice League and that alone and honestly, if the mind-control wasn't allowed, it would be a different bout, but I know when to concede. Grodd has the best chance of turning the majority of the Avengers against each other.

Concession accepted, good debate, you made me learn more about each of these characters in the process. It's true though, at first glance you'd think the Avengers had it in the bag, only to see the most malicious and ominous force in this thread ... was a damn talking monkey. huh ...... aint that a b!tch

@icysloth said:

@blackadamFTW: No one on the injustice league can solo the JSA except maybe luthor with prep.

Avengers would win read below how i think the matches would play out,

Avengers win HErcules and Thor could take BA and Namor and Hulk could take Bizarro. Add Wonderman for good measure as a supporter and the Avengers have powerhouses on lock.

Catwoman would lose to Tigra.

She-hulk should smash Grundy.

Captain America with his prep and hawkeye as a supporter should be able to dispatch slade.

Hank Pym and Wasp with prep could take out captain cold.

Ironman and Vision in most scenarios could take down luthor with prep

Mrs Marvel would curbstomp Grundy and Ivy

Avengers win I havent even had to use the entire lineup

wow ....... now this I have no comment about, actually I do have a comment, look up

@Ancient_0f_Days: Indeed, it was a pleasure debating with you.

@Deranged Midget: Ditto, now ... I wanna dissect this thread and see what the best matchups would be. It's gonna be a little bit of a challenge since there are twice the number of Avengers than there are ILA.

Avengers would wipe out the whole Injustice league squad.

@TERMINATORXX said:

Avengers would wipe out the whole Injustice league squad.

prove it ....

@Deranged Midget: before you start disecting my thread remember half the time luthor puts his plans into actions with machinations he doesn't suit up most of the time. Your right grodd does have mind control powers and is a threat with prep and i probably did underestimate him but if you add the rest of the avengers lineup to deal with him he probably still loses. Bad luck from Scarlet witch is a bitch

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Deranged Midget: Ditto, now ... I wanna dissect this thread and see what the best matchups would be. It's gonna be a little bit of a challenge since there are twice the number of Avengers than there are ILA.

Yes, but like we already argued, half of the fighters on the Avengers are practically useless.

@Oni_Bane said:

Black Adam and Bizzaro make up the difference (Deadcool: You forgot Grundy)

Against Thor, Hercules, Namor, Wonder Man, Ms Marvel and Vision, also the Scarlet Witch.

I will say Injustice League, they have Lex Luthor and Deathstroke with 2 days prep.

Against the Cap and Black Panther, also Hank Pym.

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Deranged Midget: Ditto, now ... I wanna dissect this thread and see what the best matchups would be. It's gonna be a little bit of a challenge since there are twice the number of Avengers than there are ILA.

Yes, but like we already argued, half of the fighters on the Avengers are practically useless.

yeah, well ... I don't know, there are like ... 3 useless members on the ILA side, and the fact that there's only nine of them in total is just as bad as there only being about 9 useful Avengers. which kinda makes this a 9-6, as far as usefulness goes .... I guess. But matchups can still be made

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Deranged Midget said:

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

@Deranged Midget: Ditto, now ... I wanna dissect this thread and see what the best matchups would be. It's gonna be a little bit of a challenge since there are twice the number of Avengers than there are ILA.

Yes, but like we already argued, half of the fighters on the Avengers are practically useless.

yeah, well ... I don't know, there are like ... 3 useless members on the ILA side, and the fact that there's only nine of them in total is just as bad as there only being about 9 useful Avengers. which kinda makes this a 9-6, as far as usefulness goes .... I guess. But matchups can still be made

Let us brainstorm then.

People underestimate Scarlet Witch

This would be a hard fought battle, but I give this to the Avengers...Bizarro, Black Adam, a prep'd Luthor and Deathstroke would be tough...however Stark and Pym's prep is no slouch, along with Cap's strategy and heavy hitters like Thor, Hulk, Herc, Namor and Wanda's Hex magic (which I can't even think how one would prep for that, the ability to effect/disrupt reality or probability?)...I just give the Avengers the upperhand personally.

People are underestimating the Avengers period. Stark practically creates a new armor weekly. Hell he made his first armor while being imprisoned. Stark is greater with tech than Lex. To think a team with Stark, Pym and Tchalla can't prep equally against Lex is ridiculous. Stark has taken on Doom and won, and we all Doom>Lex. This battle all hinges on Grodds telepathy and he has been known to jobber. That scan with him beating MM is PIS. Not to mention Lex usually only beats Supes due to PIS. W/O Kryptonite Supes would destroy Lex. Not to mention he's been outsmarted by Supes also so let's not act like Lex is unbeatable. A bloodlusted morals off Thor is not getting one shotted either. What's to stop him from using a Godblash and wiping everyone out? Scarlet Witch could also take the team out. The Pheonix Five are afraid of her for a reason. Lex hacking Brainiac is one feat. How often has Vision been hacked, scans please? Not to mention he will most likely be intangible so if he doesn't get hacked, which I still don't believe he will. He will take Grodd out with ease. People are acting like the Avengers don't have a chance. This is far from one sided. Pretty sure Stark can use his armor remotely also, so he could avoid telepathy also.

I say it comes down to 3 Questions that need to be answered.

Can Steve, Tony, & Pym come up with a plan to nullify Luthor, Grodd, Joker, Deathstroke, & Captain Cold?

Can Thor, Hercules, Namor, Wonder-Man, Ms. Marvel, & Hulk, withstand the power of Grundy, Adam, & Bizzaro?

Is Wanda alone a deciding factor?

@Billy Batson said:

@blackadamFTW said:

@Billy Batson said:

@blackadamFTW said:

Well, for the Injustice League, you have two JSA soloers, someone fast enough to stalemate Zoom, someone who's been capable of controlling Superman, someone who consistently reacts to Flash, two gods with prep, and a pretty powerful telepath.

I wouldn't count out the Injustice League.

Stalemate Zoom? Huh? :/
BB

It wasn't a competetive race (Zoom obviously would have won), but Bizarro was able to keep up with him pretty evenly.

Well yeah, because Zoom let him. The only real way to keep up with Zoom is having infinite speed.
BB

Of course, but it's a very impressive feat, nonetheless.

With the prep time...Can Lex get his hands on an orange lantern ring?