Thanos With Cosmic Cube Vs. Legion

Vs.

Rules

• Random encounter
• Start 1 mile apart
• Legion is in full control of his powers and is not holding back
  
• This is current Thanos with the cosmic cube
• Morals off
• Bloodlusted

Location: The Whole Cosmos

Hmmm.  I don't know the details of the current Thanos and his cube.  But if it's anything like the old Thanos and his Cube, then Legion (at full power) wins.  The Cubes are less than universal powers, and Legion has been able to manipulate universes.  I'm not sure a Cube could even erase the Elder Gods of Limbo as Legion did.

Hmmm.  I don't know the details of the current Thanos and his cube.  But if it's anything like the old Thanos and his Cube, then Legion (at full power) wins.  The Cubes are less than universal powers, and Legion has been able to manipulate universes.  I'm not sure a Cube could even erase the Elder Gods of Limbo as Legion did.

@Owie said:

Hmmm.  I don't know the details of the current Thanos and his cube.  But if it's anything like the old Thanos and his Cube, then Legion (at full power) wins.  The Cubes are less than universal powers, and Legion has been able to manipulate universes.  I'm not sure a Cube could even erase the Elder Gods of Limbo as Legion did.

Thanos killed the elders of the Universe with the Cube.

i dont think Legion has enough control to fight someone like thanos.. he may have more potential.. but not nearly enough control

i dont think Legion has enough control to fight someone like thanos.. he may have more potential.. but not nearly enough control

@IZZR: thanks

legion probably wins then.

Thanos wins .

@Owie said:

@IZZR said:

Thanos killed the elders of the Universe with the Cube.

He just did that, you mean? Still, that's nowhere near the level of power it would take to destroy Elder Gods.

The elder gods Legion apparently destroyed dont have feats so to speak, also one of the person Thanos recently killed using his cosmic cube is the In Betweener, a being who was made death his b**ch so to speak of, and fought and looked equally matched against Galactus. I think being able to kill the Elders of the universe seemed like a better feat to me at least.

That being said, Thanos after having killed the said elders lost control of the cube, i am not sure if we have to add that to the equation though.

Thanos wins

@Owie said:

@IZZR said:

Thanos killed the elders of the Universe with the Cube.

He just did that, you mean? Still, that's nowhere near the level of power it would take to destroy Elder Gods.

The elder gods Legion apparently destroyed dont have feats so to speak, also one of the person Thanos recently killed using his cosmic cube is the In Betweener, a being who was made death his b**ch so to speak of, and fought and looked equally matched against Galactus. I think being able to kill the Elders of the universe seemed like a better feat to me at least.

That being said, Thanos after having killed the said elders lost control of the cube, i am not sure if we have to add that to the equation though.

Thanos

From reading X-Men legacy Legion would stomp, the OP says full control and with full control he could casually manipulate realities and without control all of the alt timelines ended with him devouring them all.

He was also very intelligent and genre savvy.

Legions best feats are reconstructing the universe and killing the elder gods. The cosmic containment units have shown far more power than that.

Greater than the ability to alter whatever and whenever you wanted

He also would be entering the fight knowing every way it could play out, one of his powers took the role of villain in that series and had the ability to see through every possible timeline.

@dextersinister said:

@highaccuser said:

Legions best feats are reconstructing the universe and killing the elder gods. The cosmic containment units have shown far more power than that.

Greater than the ability to alter whatever and whenever you wanted

He also would be entering the fight knowing every way it could play out, one of his powers took the role of villain in that series and had the ability to see through every possible timeline.

Yes actually. Like defeating doctor doom with galactus' power with a mere thought, nullifying the entire multiverse, threatening to destroy the multiverse while at power levels nothing compared to standard, affecting every plane of existence without meaning to, etc.

@highaccuser: Galactus isn't that powerful, at his height he can bust Galaxies.

Can you show me Thanos with the cube having the ability alter the multiverse? as that would make no sense unless he had a +1 cosmic cube considering there are multiple cosmic cubes throughout the multiverse.

Thanos only fused with the universe, but other cubes did much more.

"The resulting reality war would shred the fabric of existence"

But this is Kubik, a cosmic cube being with self-imposed blocks on his power. Thanos' cube didn't have these power blocks.

He can hold entire universes in his palm.

And again, he's nothing compared to an unbound cube.

When two unbound cubes(beyonder and molecule man)fought, the impact was felt on every plane of existence.

Legion has no multiversal feats, while the cubes do.

@highaccuser: I just showed one, that was strands of different realities he was looking over and rewrote one with another he liked better.

You never provided what Thanos could do, I don't know the context behind those different beings.

I also asked for altering for a reason, destroying is easy, a bog standard time machine can do that, felt on every plane of existence seems to be horribly overused hyperbole. Why not provide the scan of Thanos making the universe scream yet for some reason no one on Earth noticed.

@dextersinister:

@highaccuser: I just showed one, that was strands of different realities he was looking over and rewrote one with another he liked better.

He re-wrote one. That's not multiversal in nature or scale.

You never provided what Thanos could do, I don't know the context behind those different beings.

There's no context except this:

Cosmic cubes impose limits once they begin to mature. This means Thanos is capable of far more than what Kubik can do, and he's shown multiversal power himself.

I also asked for altering for a reason, destroying is easy, a bog standard time machine can do that, felt on every plane of existence seems to be horribly overused hyperbole. Why not provide the scan of Thanos making the universe scream yet for some reason no one on Earth noticed.

Altering is easier than destroying? When has this ever been established by marvel? Theroies don't equal power levels or facts. If it's not established, it's useless. I also can't think of a single other time every plane of existence has been affected, so it's definently not overrused.

Thanos made the universe scream WITHOUT the cube.

@highaccuser: Altering is easier than destroying?

You reversed my question

Destroying is easier than altering

This one was obvious, what's more impressive?

• blowing up a trash can or turning a pile of scraps into one
• killing a man or bringing him back from the dead
• blowing up a planet or sculpting one

I also can't think of a single other time every plane of existence has been affected

Fights involving Odin, Death, Mephisto, Galactus. Every other plane isn't affected in any of those fights or the one you showed, it's overused hyperbole to try and make the steaks seem higher when no one on Earth gave a damn.

I am sorry but the Mr Pink Dude is an unreliable narrator because he uttered the word omnipotent which is impossible. They have limits and you need to provide me with Thanos best when using them.

616 Legion is so far a unique individual who can see through time and space and apparently change whatever he wants with the series ending with him deciding the wiser choice was for him not to change.

From what I remember of the Cosmic Cube (it's been a while since I battled here so Im rusty on knowledge) it's what a universal buster? Legion has Age of X which he rewrote and broke the entire universe and time line not to mention enslaving Dark Pheonix in his altered universe (still main universe Marvel however) and over writing several of the "No more Mutant" curses from Scarlet Witch who was a possible Omni-buster if left unchecked. Not to mention he destroyed a Elder God. I feel like Im forgetting something else.

Edit: Also depending on how you view 616 as the main link for the omniverse and magic-verse and such, Legions feats can be quite extraordinary. He completely changed 616 he didn't make a new universe.

Im pretty sure at this time none of them were Cubes. This instance was before the ret-con I believe. We also forget the power of the Cosmic Cube here, remember in what was the Space event where they fought the Elder Gods and Thanos was with the Guardians of the Galaxy, where Peter Quil and Nova destroyed the universe with a cosmic cube that was charged to what 20%?

@dextersinister: You can't apply that kind logic to comics, especially not cosmic beings. That doesn't prove anything in this instance.

Your misinterpreting the other instances. Mephisto and Galactus were just damaging the universe, and odin and set were slightly threatening the fabric or the multiverse and not the whole thing.

And maybe it is PIS in those cases, but the CCU's have time and time again proven they have that much power.

Omnipotent usually means near-omnipotent, which the cubes have proven they are. It's worth noting that the pink dude is mephisto, the lord of lies. That said, everything he said checks out perfectly and his plan to beat the goddess worked.

Why shouldn't thanos be able to do that stuff? He was smart enough to make the infinity gauntlet work, something I believe Reed Richards lacked the intelligence to do.

It's even better that they weren't cubes. The cubes are much more powerful.

The cube Star-lord had was near dead, but could still one-shot Thanos. They never used it to bust a universe, but the cubes have shown multiverse busting potential.

@highaccuser: That's not what I mean, I believe cubes are weaker then you think. Beyonder was proclaimed to literally be the space outside of the omniverse, I had a scan and still might have it where he said that the omniverse was a drop in a great ocean compared to him or something to that effect. As for the Starlord incident, they used it to destroy Thanos and the Cancerverse hence how they won against the many angled ones. I also wouldn't say Thanos was one hundred percent I mean he did die recently at the hands of Drax and then came back.

@killemall

Cant say i completely agree with your sentiment, given Legion didnt really alter anything in the multiverse in the instance mentioned and nothing there exceeds what a cosmic cube have been shown to do. But well its not like Cosmic Cubes havent been shown capable of altering reality, thats pretty much what cosmic cubes do.

Lets look at Marvel Fact Files # 7 (2013)

"The incalculable energies contained within a cosmic cube have the power to shape reality."

"These cubes have the capacity to transform thought into reality."

So lets substantiate the power of a cosmic cube first.

Incidentally, in one of the reality, Earth 9777 to be precise, a single cosmic cube was broken down into smaller pieces, and that single cosmic cube gave every hero in the universe their own perfect reality (universe or a pocket universe)

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Looking back to 616 reality, a depleted AIM Cosmic cube, which was struggling because it was on the verge of getting sentience, has a minor discharge of power that reshape reality just as well.

Gallery

There are plenty of other examples, Beyonder and Molecule Man, after their initial retcon were part of a cosmic cube, in fact, at one point they merged together to form a cosmic cube.

Gallery

Heck these cosmic cube beings when they fought , as a side effect of their fight warped a 2D universe into a 3D form.

After Beyonder retcon as a cosmic cube being, we have a story where Spiderman temporarily comes in possession of Beyonders , he remade all of creation, feat just as good if not even better than what Legion has done i would think, specially considering Spiderman only had the power for a nanosecond.

But lets get into the second part.

Well perhaps i could change your mind on this. Lets look at sort of ABC example, its fun :p

Korvac had a fight with Starhawk, which literally took place is multiple planes of reality once. And its hard to say its a over-used hyperboles when multiple planes of realities are not only mentioned, but expressly shown on panel.

Gallery

Now i would assume you would ask why i am bringing Korvac into all this, since he has no connection to a cosmic cube whatsoever.

Well Korvac makes an appearence in a Captain America story, where before Korvac, Red Skull had gotten the cosmic cube, Korvac clearly says he couldnt face the Red Skull with cosmic cube because he feared instant death.

Furthermore later in the story, Red Skull (with the power of cosmic cube) kill Korvac (one shots him if you will) from afar with ease.

Gallery

Given we have a character who is clearly, much, weaker than cosmic cube, shown capable of fighting in various planes of existence simultaneously, is it really hard to believe, cosmic cube beings could do the same?

Why is Mephisto unreliable? Given the circumstance he had no reason to lie?

And what if he uttered the word "omnipotent", in a universe that has clearly defined level of infinity, where from forever omnipotent has been defined in relative terms. But we will get into that later.

Given Thanos only has the cosmic cube in his possession for what 2 issues, not counting an encounter with a fake cosmic cube where guys like InBetweener (who himself has created an entire universe, a 13 dimensional universe no less) were too scared to even attack.

Sure the number of feats would be limited but Thanos did defeat Kronos, a genuine abstract level being.

He willed himself into a god, abstract being who controlled the entire universe.

Its not like anyone even came close to defeating on their own accord. Everyone was helpless and he had no competation.

So if you argument is Thanos loses because he isnt competent with the cosmic cube, i will simply have to disagree, given we are talking about the only guy who could take the cube, purify it, and turned himself into the prime abstract of his reality, and only lost because he wanted to lose.

The moment you look at other beings with cosmic cube in their hands, the scale of power becomes apparent.

Korvac with a cosmic cube was rebooting time as he saw fit.

And we are not talking about rebooting time once or twice, but a 100 times, with ease.

Lets get back to Reed beating Dr. Doom. While i am not even convinced Legion is beyond Galactus in power level, when Reed defeated Dr. Doom with power level, it wasnt only Galactus's power that Doom was sporting. He had the power of:

1. The Ultimate Machine

2. The Scared Helix of Randac

3. Cosmic Control rod.

Yet Reed still one shots him with a cosmic cube.

Gallery

Reed then re-creates Galactus, and uses the power of cosmic cube to undo everything Dr. Doom has done, which is impressive considering, among other things, Dr. Doom went all the way to Asgard and killed a whole bunch of people.

Gallery

I think that's enough scan spammage for one day :)

Nope they are both post retcon. But rather than me saying it, lets give you a walk through.

During Fantastic Four # 319, they were retconned into being part of a cosmic cube, not even the whole comics cube. In fact they merged together to form the actual cosmic cube.

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The cosmic cube that was formed after they were merged together, grew into Kosmos, Fantastic Four Annual # 23

As you can see from the 3rd panel in the right, the essence of Molecule Man was expelled before Kosmos was born.

Molecule Man explains this to Volcana during Fantastic Four Annual # 24

Then comes Fantastic Four Annual # 27 where the scan in from. In fact before the fight begins, Molecule Man, angry at his break up with Volcana, and blaming everything on Beyonder, physicall pulls the very essence of Beyonder out of Kosmos, who without Beyonder starts fading out of existence.

Gallery

And this is when the said fight in question begins.

Kubik on the other hand, the other scan posted, has always been a cosmic cube being, his origin from the AIM cosmic cube into Kubik is shown in Captain America Annual # 7

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Hope this helps.

@killemall: Cant say i completely agree with your sentiment, given Legion didnt really alter anything in the multiverse in the instance mentioned and nothing there exceeds what a cosmic cube have been shown to do. But well its not like Cosmic Cubes havent been shown capable of altering reality, thats pretty much what cosmic cubes do.

It's in the next page, he mentions all the things he could do and some of the things he has done.

in the early issues he saw not too far into the future of all alternative timelines/dimensions/universes and they all ended with him devouring them.

Why is Mephisto unreliable? Given the circumstance he had no reason to lie?

He couldn't possibly have been telling the truth, he claimed it was omnipotent when it can't be by the very fact that there is more than one cosmic cube.

• If one cosmic cube user battles another what decides victory?
• if Legion chooses to wipe out or reshape a universe against a cosmic cube user?
• when you've reached the point of creating destroying realities what trumps the other? more at the same time maybe?

Also being able to rewrite 616 as he did in Age of X means you've effectively beaten everyone in it which would include Galactus. Although this is the problem of having so many reality warpers, they can't all be that powerful because you would have a bunch of reality warpers jumping out of the woodworks to stop them.

Legion beat all the Elder gods. Means he easily above an Elder god.

Thanos is a top tier Cosmic cube level being.

Can't decide.

Thanos isn't even above Superman.

Thanos

Cosmic Cubes are literally Universal level items they grant anything!

Thanos after a good fight.

@mikep12: ;)don't make me laugh.

@kingant27: check the most powerful in the general discussion section. Thanos, thor, and bunch of other people are all above thanos.

Superman is below the Silver Surfer, what makes you think he is even close to Thanos.

You are massively lowballing Thanos, he stalemated Odin, before Ymir, and has beat the Silver Surfer before with just a few hits.

Legion.

I know i have read the issue and the whole series, i still dont see a single feat that Cosmic Cube cant replicate.

The fact that there is more than one cosmic cube does absolutely nothing to suggest he wasnt telling the truth.

What you have to understand is, in marvel, omnipotence itself is a relative word, not absolute.

Here is the defination of the very term omnipotence from marvel handbook.

"the term is also used generically to describe numerous beings possessing vast power, which, although not unlimited, by far surpasses that of most sentient beings. "

The competent user of the two would win, its not something new.

Omnipotent vs omnipotent is something that has been happening in marvel over time.

You saw Molecule Man vs Beyonder battle, here is Living Tribunal calling them omnipotent, in the same issue.

So yeah in a battle between omnipotent, the one who has more raw power wins, it has happened before, and has been happening in comics all the time.

Eternity vs IG for example, or LT vs HOTU.

Given CCU are more powerful , by feat, Cosmic Cube should be able to stop Legion from reshaping the universe if they choose to, and warp Legion out of existence as well should they choose.

Its not effectively beating everything, its not like Franklin hasnt been doing stuffs like that all his life just as well. Its a story, characters are often ignored. Just like being able to survive the destruction of 2 universes (something Hyperion did) doesnt make you more durable than Eternity (each universe).

Then again, i honestly think you are still here and making excuse. Ignoring the fact that the comparison Mephisto was making was between the power level of an Infinity Gauntlet and Cosmic Cube, by hanging on to 1 word, omnipotence.

@killemall:

What you have to understand is, in marvel, omnipotence itself is a relative word, not absolute.

Here is the defination of the very term omnipotence from marvel handbook.

An almost useless word considering the gap between the people that Marvel applies it to.

A lot of your feats are based on the idea that Legion has never been multiversal.

The countless realities of the multiverse all end with him.

Given CCU are more powerful , by feat, Cosmic Cube should be able to stop Legion from reshaping the universe if they choose to, and warp Legion out of existence as well should they choose.

Again why would it trump him when by reshaping 616 he has removed a cosmic cube from existence. At full power he would be going into a random encounter knowing it was going to happen so if this is a matter of who strikes first wouldn't that give him an edge, as you know one of his personalities is a pre-cog.

Its not effectively beating everything, its not like Franklin hasnt been doing stuffs like that all his life just as well. Its a story, characters are often ignored. Just like being able to survive the destruction of 2 universes (something Hyperion did) doesnt make you more durable than Eternity (each universe).

That was sort of my point, if Franklin does warp 616 then he has technically beaten everything in it, the constant overlap of all these reality warpers is a failing of the setting.

Bad example as Hyperion surviving merely means he needed to be more durable than everything that did not survive and durability should normally not have any bearing on transmutation, obviously that one is dependent on writer.

Then again, i honestly think you are still here and making excuse. Ignoring the fact that the comparison Mephisto was making was between the power level of an Infinity Gauntlet and Cosmic Cube, by hanging on to 1 word, omnipotence.

His words not mine and as both of us have effectively pointed out that the word isn't worth much.

Cosmic cubes get made and unmade constantly all the time with the birthing and unbirthing of universe. Unless either opponent has given themselves some default resistance to being reality warped the constant overlap would show us that which ever reality warper strikes first wins.

Fair enough, although i dont see how that changes anything. My argument isnt that cosmic cube wins because its called omnipotent, but rather based on what we have seen cosmic cube do.

Wait what?

I dont recall mentioning this like ever.

All i however said is, from what we have seen thus far, cosmic cube simply has better showcasing of power.

I am not entirely sure where Legion not being multiversal comes from, i didnt mention that once.

I am not sure what future version of Legion or him having seen how destiny works in marvel, from X men Legacy # 10 suggest Legion is multiversal or the multiverse would end with him?

What exactly am i missing? (although i admit i do often get lost on what Simon is trying to write, his writing simply is too complex for me at times).

Wait what?

I dont recall Legion every removing a cosmic cube from existence, do you?

That would require Legion to be able to erase Cosmic Cube from existence, what evidence do you have of this?

And Cosmic Cube grants pre-cog just as well, so i am not sure how that racks up.

Its not like you can show legion being any faster than Thanos either on his own, and anything legion can do, cosmic cube can do just as well.

If you wanna point inconsistencies in marvel, be my guest, but that should not take away what we are debating.

We have seen 2 omnipotents fight, and the one more powerful often wins.

Why should this battle be decided on anything other than that?

He did survive when everything in the 2 universe died, Eternity being part of each normally, alongside a whole platheora of abstracts like Death, Infinity , Galactus , Celestials etc etc.

And its not about transmutation either, there was no transmutation involved, 2 universes collided, everything died (presumably abstracts as well) and Hyperion survived.

So you either believe Hyperion survived, coz he is more durable than abstracts, or its up to us to believe well its comics, characters are often ignored and hence none of these character were mentioned or shown we can compare, same way we cant compare Age of X with a cosmic cube, or abstracts, since none were mentioned or shown in the story at hand.

Again you are dallying around the actual argument. Why would his used of omnipotent change the fact of what he is trying to say, that just like IG Cosmic cubes can do pretty much anything, which incidentally is backed up examples.

How about you show me an example of this making and unmaking of a cosmic cube , specially the unmaking part.

Making, the energy comes from Beyond, a universe that remains untouched in pretty much every marvel event.

@killemall: If a universe is removed or altered then you've removed or altered a cosmic cube.

If you create an alternate timeline of 616 you have just replicated cosmic cubes along with Celestials, Galactus and all the other weirdos kicking about.

I'm too lazy to reply to all the points at the moment but

He did survive when everything in the 2 universe died, Eternity being part of each normally, alongside a whole platheora of abstracts like Death, Infinity , Galactus , Celestials etc etc.

Then he is a tough cookie, maybe he hid in a fridge

Wait what?

I dont recall mentioning this like ever.

I just assumed you thought he wasn't from this, if you didn't then fair enough.

Cant say i completely agree with your sentiment, given Legion didnt really alter anything in the multiverse in the instance mentioned

When you can either show me an express on panel feat , or a writer statement saying this, i have no reason to agree with you, specially given i have at least referred to one instance where beings in universe was ignored.

There are a whole bunch of example, like Odin coming to earth , with a wave of his hand taking over everyone's mind and then sending them into a different dimension so he could fight Surtur.

Now given there are guys in marvel universe that are outright immune to telepathy (Juggernaut, Ghost Rider, Deadpool) and guys whose power exceed that of the old man (Franklin, Molecule Man, Legion etc) , either you can believe somehow miraculously all of them fell under Odin's spell, or you could take it as it is, given those characters were never referenced they werent written to be a part of the story.

Well if you say so.. without any proof.

Yep seems like a very reasonable answer :)

ok Thanos get this

Thanos.

Bump.. so Cosmic cubes are more powerful than Legion in control of all his personalities?

Thanos stomps.

Thanos.

Thanos stomps.

@Liveshiptrader: ummm your wrong that fight was pre reckon MM stated he is now far below the entity's of the universe also once again byonder is no longer considered a cosmic cube hes a mutant inhuman highbrid lastly CC are not universal let alone multiversal they are well below the IG witch is only universal legion in full control still loses though but not because he is stronger because hes not but because hes not smart enough to defeat thanos even in a random encounter thanos would come up with a plan to beat legion most likely playing on his fragile mind and before you say no hes in full control full control doesn't mean he still isn't damaged by his mind it just means he can chose witch powers he uses and when