Thanos vs Team

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UberHulk

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#101  Edited By UberHulk

@claymore1998: I'm not sure what you're referring to. If it's passing through realties all the Defenders have done that.

Thanos even recently had a similar feat of surviving the destruction and recreation of the universe alongside Adam Warlock.

There was no 'destruction' it disappeared and reappeared.

The comparison between the blast from Galactus against Thanos being compared against Hulk seem unwise when you take into the account that Hulk was facing a hungry Galactus trapped into battle world, while Thanos faced a fed Galactus. The issue also mentioned Galactus used so much energy to burst through Thanos's shield that he depleted himself.

Galactus said "Never before have I had to exert myself in order to pierce a mere fore field. Admirable technology but a second blast will" at which point Thanos begged so no, he was not depleted. He had to exert himself to destroy a force field, nothing more.

When Galactus is weakened he's shown in a weakened state. That was not the case in Secret Wars. Hulk also tanked the first two of Zeus' attacks with ease until Zeus shut down his powers.

I do not agree with your assumption that Thanos was somehow amped against Odin when the specifics of the story suggests otherwise, and I am not sure why Odin saying Thanos taps into a power source both dark and infinite somehow makes it an amp when within the context of the issue they were merely comparing the well from which they draw their respective power. Odin also compares their respective power sources with Thanos, and based on your assessment wouldn’t that suggest Odin himself was amped? I don’t think either was true and they were merely talking about their own respective power sources, much like Silver Surfer draws his power from a pool of cosmic energy which is likewise limitless.

Odin has the Odinforce. That's his power. Warlock And The Infinity Watch was written by Jim Starlin, Thanos' creator who also wrote the Thanos series in which he faced Galactus i.e. it's the same writer. In one instance he takes multiple blasts from a sky father, in another he begs before one shot is fired at him, if he could draw on this limitless energy the shields would have held. That is such a major contradiction and given it's the same writer, given what Odin said, that suggests he had an amp or it suggests Galactus is leagues above Odin which is obviously not the case as we have seen when they have fought.

I also think it's faulty to compare anti-matter discharge from the bomb Drax used to a similar attack against Hulk to establish Hulk's superiority because it’s an ABC logic, which also ignores that fact that being brought into a universe devoid of Death was already weakening Thanos and he wasn’t at full power yet. It could similar be tweaked in the opposite direction to claim Thor was able to knock out Hulk with a single lightning strike and Thanos took the attack from Thor without any damage while asking for more.

Thanos was weakened at the start of the story when we saw him chained. By the time he fought Drax he had recovered. In story they state he's mentally weakened, not physically weakened. In the recap for The Thanos Imperative Issue 2 :

"Upon entering the cancerverse he collapsed, perhaps overwhelmed by a place where death DOES NOT EXIST"

We see him get to his feet "I am having great difficulty retaining my MENTAL composure in this universe but it would appear that I am capable of delivering permanent death.", given death does not exists in the cancerverse, killing two people suggests physically he is fine.

Thor did not KO Hulk with a single lightning strike, if you refer to Fear Itself Hulk was not KTFO, he was BFRed but still conscious. Neither Thor or Thanos were hurt in their confrontation. In Avengers 1 Abyss turned Hulk against Thor and Hulk was easily able to subdue Thor, which lead to him being imprisoned (tied to the tree). In issue 2 however Hulk and Hyperion fought evenly. Both are now positioned above Thor, as is Gladiator who of course Thanos refused to fight.

Hulk has shown superior durability against sky fathers than Thanos, as in fact has Thor. Thanos faced Odin with an amp, he faced Tyrant with an amp, he begged off Galactus after a blast shot through his shields and put him down.

It's Hulk, not Thanos, that has been stated on panel as having limitless and infinite power, something Thanos seeks. Galactus had to exert himself to smash Thanos' shield yet it took nearly everything the In-Betweener had (at half power when split from his other persona) to hold down Hulk, he tanked a blast from Galactus and blasts from Zeus before his powers were shut down and that's not forgetting what happens when he goes World Breaker.

@comicdude360: I couldn't care less what many people think when many of the same people perpetuate false myths, have poor knowledge and post out of context scans with no references. I go by what's shown and stated on panel and, unlike many here, I don't have problems interpreting them.

@pooty Regardless physical attacks are not Thanos only option. He takes over Hulks mind and makes Hulk his boy toy. Thanos wins

Thanos isn't on Professor X's level. He could only control dumb Hulk's limbs.

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Comicdude360

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@uberhulk: I'd listen to @thedailybagel he knows more about hulk than most people including you (no offense but it is true). And hardly anyone here is described like what you are talking about except people with a very low post count. Again daily bagel is pretty smart when it comes to hulk and he doesn't say he loses a lot so when he does, it means a lot. And if you don't think you can trust him go read one of his cav's or stop trolling because it isn't funny really more.

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thing150

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@uberhulk: i now proclaim you king............of arguing false moot points

and picking and choosing what part of an argument you respond to

and taking scans out of context

and being a fanboy

and knowing nothing about thanos

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Comicdude360

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#104  Edited By Comicdude360

@thing150: not the first person and not the best. at least he used images

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UberHulk

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@comicdude360: You can listen to who you want. I've already debated with him. His knowledge was lacking. ghostravage, he knows his stuff.

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Comicdude360

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@uberhulk: wow daily bagel's knowledge is lacking on hulk.

Your argument is invalid

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Comicdude360

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@uberhulk: how about this you challenge daily bagel to a hulk cav and when you lose you can accept that he's smart.

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Marvel_kills_DC

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Thanos obviously

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Claymore1998

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@uberhulk: I am on my phone and will only be able to provide you a more detailed reply in the evening. So please bear with me for few hours.

In the mean time you can check few things out that will explain my case better.

The universal destroying feat I was referring to isn't from Thanos Quest , but rather from Infinity Abyss where Goddess unleashes the power of reality gem.

Galactus being depleted come from the next page you are referring to where he mentioned dealing with Thanos has depleted him of energies and that he now needs to feed. That's a big jump from a fed Galactus to needing to feed immediately.

Galactus isn't a sky father and is significantly more powerful. Even the fight you are referring to , which is from Fraction's run of Mighty Thor Odin is completely powerless after the said headbutt while Galactus gets up without any injuries. Furthermore Odin later even outright mentions he summoned the destroyer because he did not have enough power to continue fighting Galactus.

Later we see an old hungry Galactus convincingly defeat the Old King Thor without much trouble. There is also a prior instance of fight between Galactus and Zeus where Galactus was surprised Zeus was capable of taking an angry blast from Galactus because no mere sky father can do so. It's later revealed that Zeus survived because he was amped by a more powerful being , The Chaos King.

Against Tyrant all Thanos had was a cosmic ball that had the energy of Morg. For a character who feeds on such energies and someone who has defeated not 1 but 5 such characters together with ease the cosmic ball wouldn't do anything significant. Even then the ball was merely used as a weapon , no where has it even been hinted that the ball empowers Thanos .

Lastly thank you for debating kindly and without insults. I might be replying a bit late but I like the way our debate is progressing.

See you in few hours ^_^ have a good day.

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thedailybagel

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#110 thedailybagel  Moderator

@uberhulk: you've never 'debated' me, I've mentioned how wrong you are and left it at that. I'd like to say I'm a reasonable hulk fan and some even consider me an expert on the character, I also don't say he loses often. If you didn't lowball other characters so much I might be able to say the same about you. There's a point where it gets ridicules though, saying things like 'hulk can beat Thanos' or 'marvel powerhouses are more powerful than dc powerhouses' are pure unfounded bias IMO. Instead of mentioning how my knowledge is lacking (which it really isn't as I've proved in CaVs) try to enhance your own knolwege of said characters.

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Kingant27

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Thanos wins, and Thanos>Hulk; why is that being debated.

Thanos has so many way of dealing with him, and could beat him physically as well; he could TP him, and make him his ***** again.

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UberHulk

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#112  Edited By UberHulk

@Comicdude360: The vast majority vote for their favourite characters or posters irrespective of the evidence presented as we time and time again.

@thedailybagel They are anything but unfounded as the strength and durability comparisons show.

@claymore1998 The universal destroying feat I was referring to isn't from Thanos Quest , but rather from Infinity Abyss where Goddess unleashes the power of reality gem.

Goddess doesn't appear in Infinity Abyss. I think the incident you mention takes place during Infinity War.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Goddess_%28Earth-616%29

Ultimately, it was Thanos of Titan, in conjunction with Warlock and the heretic heroes, who engineered the defeat of The Goddess. Believing she had triggered the celestial armageddon she had worked for, The Goddess was dismayed to learn that Warlock's spirit had communicated with the Egg, sending out an illusion that armageddon had been triggered, a fraction of a second before the real thing. This meant that The Goddess' plans were ruined; since her many universal followers now realized her intent, she could not generate the universal will needed to override the Egg's inbuilt safeguards regarding destruction.

Galactus being depleted come from the next page you are referring to where he mentioned dealing with Thanos has depleted him of energies and that he now needs to feed. That's a big jump from a fed Galactus to needing to feed immediately.

Fair point but again he exerted himself destroying a shield, that's a feat for tech not for durability.

Galactus isn't a sky father and is significantly more powerful. Even the fight you are referring to , which is from Fraction's run of Mighty Thor Odin is completely powerless after the said headbutt while Galactus gets up without any injuries. Furthermore Odin later even outright mentions he summoned the destroyer because he did not have enough power to continue fighting Galactus.

Who isn't a sky father, Odin or Galactus? As for Odin v Galactus, it wasn't the headbutt that caused Galactus pain, it was Thor putting a hole through his head while he was in some sort of mind fight with Odin.

Against Tyrant all Thanos had was a cosmic ball that had the energy of Morg. For a character who feeds on such energies and someone who has defeated not 1 but 5 such characters together with ease the cosmic ball wouldn't do anything significant. Even then the ball was merely used as a weapon , no where has it even been hinted that the ball empowers Thanos .

Morg was Galactus' most powerful Herald at the time and we saw how much Thanos struggled against him, needing the help of Ganymede and Terrax to defeat him so I wouldn't dismiss the energy.

Lastly thank you for debating kindly and without insults. I might be replying a bit late but I like the way our debate is progressing.

And to you. I'm short tempered with the dishonest and the dim witted. Any time I learn something, even if my claims are disproved, it makes this forum worthwhile.

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Claymore1998

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#113  Edited By Claymore1998

@uberhulk:

As promised I am back home finally in a position to delineate my arguments.

I'm not sure what you're referring to. If it's passing through realties all the Defenders have done that.

That's not what I was referring to, though I do not believe any Defenders barring Stephen Strange has actually physically passed through myriad dimensions originating from a tangible 616 reality all the way to the land of Vishanti where facts and fiction themselves intertwine giving birth to magic.

Stephen Strange has teleported from our dimension to dimension of Vishanti but even he has never travelled through various realities being morphed, broken, shattered and twisted along the way, without having an inherent protection from the Eye of Agamatto.

Fantastic Four alongside Silver Surfer have teleported from 616 reality to dimension of Vishanti but never physically travelled along infinite planes of existence.

That particular feat is extremely impressive from Thanos but that wasn’t the feat I was referring to.

The feat I was referring to comes from Infinity Crusade story line where the feminine counterpart of Adam Warlock, aptly named Goddess, teleports into Thanos's lair unleashing the energies of the reality gem.

No Caption Provided

Adam Warlock discovers the malady because of his inherent connection to the infinity gem and upon entering the universe realizes a wave of un-reality is being rushed out from the infinity gem which was going to engulf all actuality thereby destroying the whole universe and beyond.

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If you notice in the scan above Adam Warlock explains that the distortion itself is aggrandized into three layers.Upon entering the second layer Adam Warlock's physical body gets shredded into ribbons.

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Thanos who was in the midst of all this, point blank, was able to survive this without even being knocked out. For the story, he took the brunt of a reality distorting wave that was going to devolve the entire universe.

There was no 'destruction' it disappeared and reappeared.

I am not sure I understand. There was of course the destruction as well as re-creation of the universe because the universe itself ceased to exist and then was replaced by something new.

No Caption Provided

"to cause (something) to end or no longer exist" - taken straight out of the dictionary.

Furthermore, if you wanted conventional destruction it was demonstrated earlier in the story where we see first planets, then starts then the whole reality getting destroyed.

Galactus said "Never before have I had to exert myself in order to pierce a mere fore field. Admirable technology but a second blast will" at which point Thanos begged so no, he was not depleted. He had to exert himself to destroy a force field, nothing more.

Few pages later in the same issue Galactus elucidates that dealing with Thanos had depleted him of energy.

No Caption Provided

When Galactus is weakened he's shown in a weakened state. That was not the case in Secret Wars.

Sorry but the scan you posted of Hulk surviving energy blast from Galactus is from Secret Wars story arc, more specifically Secret Wars # 9.

Hulk also tanked the first two of Zeus' attacks with ease until Zeus shut down his powers.

There is a big difference in power between Zeus and Galactus, furthermore I see no reason to believe Zeus was going all out against Hulk. The same cannot be said about Galactus because the said action actually depleted Galactus.

Furthermore, a being every bit comparable to Zeus is Odin and Thanos has tanked not one but numerous blasts from Odin.

Odin has the Odinforce. That's his power.

Thanos likewise has cosmic energies as well as has the ability to tap into the pool of energies from Death's domain. Why would the latter, which has always been a part of Thanos power-set be considered amped for him?

Warlock And The Infinity Watch was written by Jim Starlin, Thanos' creator who also wrote the Thanos series in which he faced Galactus i.e. it's the same writer. In one instance he takes multiple blasts from a sky father, in another he begs before one shot is fired at him, if he could draw on this limitless energy the shields would have held.

Firstly there is indeed a big gap between the power of Galactus and Odin, has always been, especially when you take into account a well nourished Galactus.

Furthermore I think you are misinterpreting the story. Nowhere in the story as far as I can see suggests Thanos was begging Galactus to spare his life; Thanos however requests Galactus to re-examine his findings and even mentions he fears what the inner-dimensional entity who was manipulating Galactus might destroy the whole reality.

Thanos isn't known to fear death, he embraces it ,but he would however fear the destruction of his reality, or to be more precise the consumption of his entire universe by an alien entity.

That is such a major contradiction and given it's the same writer, given what Odin said, that suggests he had an amp or it suggests Galactus is leagues above Odin which is obviously not the case as we have seen when they have fought.

Galactus being a good league above Odin is actually true, has always been.

Since you referred to the fight the two had, let's re-examine the details. After their big physical struggle both fall on Earth Odin utter few words to Thor before going unconscious, which Thor interprets as Odin going into Odin sleep.

No Caption Provided

Galactus on the other hand stands up, heals himself and continues his search for the life seed as if nothing had happened; he actually even threatens to destroy the whole Asgard.

When two behemoths collide, causing one to pass out while the other can casually stand up, heal himself without any trouble and continues on his merry way, you have to acknowledge the latter of the two is obviously vastly more powerful and that entity would be Galactus in this scenario.

Odin also admits his inferiority to Galactus the very next issue.

No Caption Provided

In fact the very fight you are referring to makes it abundantly clear that there is a pretty big difference between the two, power wise at least. There are others instances that would attest to Galactus's superiority as I pointed out on my earlier post.

Thanos was weakened at the start of the story when we saw him chained. By the time he fought Drax he had recovered. In story they state he's mentally weakened, not physically weakened. In the recap for The Thanos Imperative Issue 2 :

Thanos was merely being nursed to full health, nowhere in the issue does it reveal, at least to the best of my knowledge that Thanos has been nursed back to full health.

I am also a bit confused how you are regarding that as merely being mentally weakened when Thanos actually collapses physically.

"Upon entering the cancerverse he collapsed, perhaps overwhelmed by a place where death DOES NOT EXIST"

I am not sure how you could suggest "collapsed" or "overwhelmed" is somehow a sign of merely mental weakness.

Furthermore, having mental issues does not by any means preclude the fact that he was weakened or change the fact that the line of argument you are using is an ABC logic which can very easily be used against you.

Thor did not KO Hulk with a single lightning strike, if you refer to Fear Itself Hulk was not KTFO, he was BFRed but still conscious.

This is incorrect; Thor has indeed knocked out Hulk with a single lightning in the past in Hulk Annual 2001

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Neither Thor or Thanos were hurt in their confrontation.

I can't say I agree with it because we clearly see Thor punched helplessly on the ground then be blown away by Thanos energy attack. Certainly seem like Thor was on the losing end of the fight, sadly the battle never came to a conclusion.

However the later issue further elaborates those heroes on Earth knew they could not beat Thanos, and given the assertion I find it hard to see the battle between Thor and Thanos being on equal footing.

Additionally we see Thanos downright humilated Beta Ray Bill who is every bit a match for Thor and has defeated Thor twice in his prior encounter, though he has also been defeated by Thor on 2 different occasions.

In Avengers 1 Abyss turned Hulk against Thor and Hulk was easily able to subdue Thor, which lead to him being imprisoned (tied to the tree).

I do not believe this is a valid assessment, because we do not see the specific of the fight. Furthermore, the assumption that Hulk somehow won the fight is contradicted by the fact that we see Hulk himself lying unconscious next to Thor.

No Caption Provided

In issue 2 however Hulk and Hyperion fought evenly.

That's a very short battle to draw a meaningful conclusion from and this assertion also does not reasonably account for the fact that Hulk was the one going rogue while Hyperion merely intended to stop Hulk. The fight ended with Hulk being knocked on the ground before Abyss's mind control wore off changing Hulk into Bruce Banner, followed by Hyperion lending a friendly helping hand towards Banner, further demonstrating the friendly mindset Hyperion had.

Do not get me wrong I am not claiming Hyperion is necessarily stronger or more powerful than Hulk but rather arguing against the assertion that a short, friendly fight, between the two somehow suggest they are on equal footing. This assertion also ignores various advantages Hyperion has over Hulk such as super-speed, flight, heat vision etc.

Both are now positioned above Thor, as is Gladiator who of course Thanos refused to fight.

The first part is your personal presumption, unless specifically supported by valid evidence I do not think I would have any obligation to agree with it, and I frankly do not agree on that.

Moving on to Gladiator, while Thanos seem scared of him in the short encounter they had that doesn’t automatically suggest much in the debate because it's clearly not consistent with either of their history. Tyrant clearly saw Thanos has vastly superior to Gladiator when they fought as well, and Thanos has a convenient means to defeat Gladiator in the form of telepathy which Gladiator has very little defense against and as such has fallen prey to it more than once. Silver Surfer is also likewise superior to Gladiator and has fought Gladiator in the past and Thanos's history solidifies his superiority over Surfer.

Hulk has shown superior durability against sky fathers than Thanos, as in fact has Thor.

It is probably evident by now , I certainly do not agree with this assertion. Thanos tanked multiple attacks from an angry Odin without being knocked out while Hulk found himself hopelessly matched in a one sided battle against Zeus which nearly resulted in Hulk's demise. If you are going to use that logic then that suggest Thanos is clearly superior.

Thanos has also defeated Drax on multiple occasions who has matched Hulk both times they have fought.

That being said I still believe this part is ABC logic and as such should not really dictate the debate.

Thanos faced Odin with an amp, he faced Tyrant with an amp, he begged off Galactus after a blast shot through his shields and put him down.

Thanos never had any amp against Odin and he really didn’t have an amp against Tyrant, apart from a cosmic ball containing the energies of Morg. Given how easily Tyrant handled Silver Surfer, despite having powerful allies with him in the past it is extremely unreasonable to think a cosmic ball containing the energies of Morg would really mean for something against Tyrant nor does having a ball containing cosmic energy somehow improve Thanos's durability.

Galactus instance has been addressed above.

It's Hulk, not Thanos, that has been stated on panel as having limitless and infinite power, something Thanos seeks.

This isn’t something I can agree with because I can conveniently turn the argument against you. Thanos is the only one among the two who was been stated to be near-omnipotent, as well as close enough to count as omnipotent in another instance. If you use statements to suggest Hulk is superior then you have to acknowledge that Thanos's history is replete with similar statement. The power Thanos seeks are ones that could make him omnipotent such as cosmic cube, Infinity Gauntlet etc and I do not believe Hulk's power is anywhere close in that scale

Hulk neither has infinite strength nor infinite power, though I suppose you could argue he has the potential for infinite strength. Relying on that statement also ignores the fact that Hulk has clearly been defeated by superior opponents in a straight up brawl, Sun God's instance from recent New Avengers issues as well as Titanus easily defeating Hulk in few blows come to mind.

Galactus had to exert himself to smash Thanos' shield yet it took nearly everything the In-Betweener had (at half power when split from his other persona) to hold down Hulk

The comparison between Inbetweener and Galactus is very unreasonable. The two have fought once, which included Galactus just freed from a slow painful death due to being poisoned by having consumed the elders of the universe in a fit of rage, and he clearly had the upper hand on Inbetweener. That clearly demonstrates who among the two is superior.

Furthermore, you are not accounting for that fact that Inbetweener's power is derived from the imbalance in nature and having separated into 2 beings weakens him greatly. Scarlet Witch was able to defeat both the Order as well as Chaos part of the Inbetweener without much trouble in a previous story where Inbetweener was broken down into 2 base components.

Do not get me wrong, I do not disagree that instance with Inbetweener is impressive but it's not really something you could compare with what Thanos did against Galactus or Odin for that matter.

he tanked a blast from Galactus and blasts from Zeus before his powers were shut down and that's not forgetting what happens when he goes World Breaker.

I will leave the debate involving World Breaker Hulk for another day and I believe the argument on comparing Hulk's fight against Zeus with Thanos's fight against Galactus has been addressed.

Sorry the reply sort of went out of hand and got a lot longer than I expected. Let's see if we can eventually reach a consensus on the said debate. Looking forward to reading your arguments next ^_^

Take care and this debate has been pretty fun so far, and I would also like to take the time to commend you on your debating skills.

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Claymore1998

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#114  Edited By Claymore1998

@uberhulk said:

Goddess doesn't appear in Infinity Abyss. I think the incident you mention takes place during Infinity War.

Infinity Crusade , my mistake, though you will find more details in my prior post ^_^

Fair point but again he exerted himself destroying a shield, that's a feat for tech not for durability.

I am not sure why a distinction is being made, Thanos tech as well as his shield are part of his normal gear. In fact, virtually every single of his abilities comes from tech.

I don't really follow a logical reasoning behind this distinction..

Who isn't a sky father, Odin or Galactus? As for Odin v Galactus, it wasn't the headbutt that caused Galactus pain, it was Thor putting a hole through his head while he was in some sort of mind fight with Odin.

Galactus isn’t a sky father, he is a force of nature. I am not sure why Thor being able to injure Galactus while he otherwise caught up in a telepathic duel with Odin, so fierce that it was causing both of them to sweat would contradict Galactus's superiority over Odin.

Morg was Galactus' most powerful Herald at the time and we saw how much Thanos struggled against him, needing the help of Ganymede and Terrax to defeat him so I wouldn't dismiss the energy.

You are missing two different things. Morg wasn’t Galactus's most powerful herald and outside of Well of Life story arc , where Morg had a mystic amp, Silver Surfer has fought and defeated him.

Furthermore, Morg himself was clearly alive even after the fact that his energies where siphoned off by Tyrant and trapped into the said ball. Given Tyrant humiliated Morg rather casually as well as defeated Silver Surfer with very little if any trouble I do not see why Morg's energy would make a huge difference.

Lastly, Morg that fought Thanos had be re-modeled by Tyrant and as such we do not know how powerful he was, though despite temporarily overwhelming Thanos for 1 page Morg does not do anything impressive and once off his feat Thanos dispatches off Morg without much trouble.

And to you. I'm short tempered with the dishonest and the dim witted. Any time I learn something, even if my claims are disproved, it makes this forum worthwhile.

No worries this interaction has been pretty fun.

You will find more pertinent information on my prior reply but I took the liberty of replying to few queries you have raised. Let’s see how the debate ends.

^_^

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CitizenSentry

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When ever I see a battle with Thanos and Hulk in it I tend to stay away. And I shall do the exact same here.

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bflynn316

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@uberhulk: Why are you arguing that Hulk can beat Thanos if he never has. They've fought several times, and each one ended in Hulk just getting slapped around. If you look at threads where Thanos fights the Hulk on this site, you'll see they are locked. That's cuz its spite man, they aren't even in the same league. I know you want to disprove everyone on this site and you think you know more than everyone else, but seriously these pictures you're posting aren't fooling anyone.

Hulk has fought Thanos before. Until he can fight him and win, I'll go with whats happened in the past. Thanos stomps.

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thing150

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@thing150: not the first person and not the best. at least he used images

i have a bunch of scans on the previous page that he cannot top

thanos vs tyrant is a better feat than anything the hulk has ever done

also beating silver surfer almost to death with 9 punches is better than anything hulk has done

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thing150

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#118  Edited By thing150
@comicdude360 said:

@thing150: not the first person and not the best. at least he used images

and lol…using irrelevant scans to further a pointless moot argument……all he does is post mid tier hulk scans and scans of things that have nothing to do with thanks and acts like it furthered his argument

i have scans on the previous page….he stopped conversing with me because he could not come up with any scans to top thanos holding his own against tyrant

@uberhulk tried to say that hulk would beat thanos because a warrior madness power gem thor made thanos bleed a little out of his nose…..thanos smiled afterwards

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Comicdude360

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@thing150: yeah but It makes him seem official and without reading anything you'd think he's right. But I read

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Thanos.

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@claymore1998: Yeah, you're right. I'm just a big Galactus fan and don't really like how he's been downplayed so much from the original God stature they wrote him as. So trying to emphasize his legit feats is the only way I can block out him losing to Thor and Kitty Pride :'(

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@thetruthiii:

One of the problem Galactus had was he was more or less turned into a benchmark, a stepping stone for villains to prove their powers are truly cosmic in nature, especially ones that appear for a very short story arc.

Earth heroes hurting an obscenely powerful entity is actually commonplace, the story is normally written to favor the heroes. The same with Thor and Kitty, the former manage to fend off a weakened Galactus after a prolonged fight with his match while the latter was able to match his power and send him to anti-matter universe keeping him trapped there.The only reason either of that happened was because the story was biased towards heroes to begin with.

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#123  Edited By UberHulk

@claymore1998: Here are the Defenders going through reality warping.

If you could give references for the Adam Warlock and Goddess scans I'll look into it. I don't like commenting unless I've read something to get the context. Both Hulk and Hyperion has similar feats, Hulk survive a blast that destroyed a universe. Hyperion survived the death of two universes. Hulk's feat. Incredible Hulk 126

The Hulk smashes something and the force "Illuminates an eons dark COSMOS".

What's a cosmos?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cosmos

The universe regarded as an orderly, harmonious whole.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/universe

All matter and energy, including the earth, the galaxies, and the contents of intergalactic space, regarded as a whole.

So a cosmos is the universe and the universe CONTAINS galaxies, plural, not one but plural.

Hulk's thunderclap sends The Night-Crawlers sonic impulses back at him and destroys his cosmos. Stan Lee later references in another issue, he was the editor at the time. "Their combat destroyed that entire universe."

Your scans show planets being destroyed. A universe being destroyed is considerably more energy but we don't actually see the universe being destroyed. It ceased to exist then reappeared.

There is a big difference in power between Zeus and Galactus, furthermore I see no reason to believe Zeus was going all out against Hulk. The same cannot be said about Galactus because the said action actually depleted Galactus.

Zeus' wife tells him "Incinerate him", this after Hulk tanked attacks from Poseidon, Artemis, Boreas, Apollo and beat down Odysseus and Prometheus - all in Incredible Hulks 621. In context of the story Zeus wanted to humiliate Hulk, clearly he was not holding back, he couldn't even hurt Hulk until he shut down his powers. Yes destroying Thanos' shields depleted Galactus' powers which is no way, shape or form is a feat for Thanos' durability, it's a feat for his tech.

Thanos likewise has cosmic energies as well as has the ability to tap into the pool of energies from Death's domain. Why would the latter, which has always been a part of Thanos power-set be considered amped for him?

If Thanos has an unlimited source of energy he would have been able to amp his shields indefinitely, that wasn't the case against either Champion or Galactus.

Furthermore I think you are misinterpreting the story. Nowhere in the story as far as I can see suggests Thanos was begging Galactus to spare his life; Thanos however requests Galactus to re-examine his findings and even mentions he fears what the inner-dimensional entity who was manipulating Galactus might destroy the whole reality.

"Galactus stay your hand! I beseech you to hear my words.". Beseech means beg.

In fact the very fight you are referring to makes it abundantly clear that there is a pretty big difference between the two, power wise at least. There are others instances that would attest to Galactus's superiority as I pointed out on my earlier post.

Ok fair point. Galactus is more powerful than Odin but then Odin is also more powerful than Champion.

"Upon entering the cancerverse he collapsed, perhaps overwhelmed by a place where death DOES NOT EXIST"

I am not sure how you could suggest "collapsed" or "overwhelmed" is somehow a sign of merely mental weakness.

The context is because it's a place where Death i.e. his true love doesn't exist.

Furthermore, having mental issues does not by any means preclude the fact that he was weakened or change the fact that the line of argument you are using is an ABC logic which can very easily be used against you.

He admitted to being mentally weakened, he said nothing about being physically weakened.

"I am having great difficulty retaining my MENTAL composure in this universe but it would appear that I am capable of delivering permanent death."

Even IF he was weakened why would he be able to survive an anti matter device? Drax knows how to kill him. He came prepared as he stated "I came fully loaded this time.". Hulk can survive anti matter, Thanos can't. Hulk can survive attacks on a molecular and atomic level, Thanos has twice been turned into a lollipop. Hulk can tank a Galactus blast with no ill effects, Thanos cannot.

This is incorrect; Thor has indeed knocked out Hulk with a single lightning in the past in Hulk Annual 2001

13 years ago. This is the crux of the matter and a point you and the vast, overhwelming majority of posters here miss. First the Hulk we get is dependent on Banner's mental state, Banner exerts varying a degree of influence over the Hulk, this was established by Stan Lee himself early on. This is a story he wrote in 1966.

"With each passing second, the brilliant brain of Bruce Banner becomes more clouded. More dulled as the bestial, savage mind of the Hulk all but obliterates the identity of his other self!"

Then later in the same story as he sees Betty. "For a few fleeting seconds, in some dim, recess of the Hulk's brain, the part which was once Bruce Banner suddenly remembers but then the sensation vanishes leaving in its wake only the snarling, rampaging creature who roars his defiance for the World to hear!"

Amadeus Cho surmised that Banner exerts control over Hulk so as not to harm others.

"I've figure out how your brain works. You're like me. You can see everything. The mathematics of every object around you. As long as your brain hasn't been tampred with, there isn't a part of you that always isn't running the numbers.", "Yesterday, you brought down the Sentry's eyrie. You smashed the top of the Baxter Building. You pulverized all these heroes and yet you haven't killed a single soul".

No Caption Provided

Cho goes on to suggest if he wanted Richards, Iron Man, Black Bolt and Strange dead he would have killed them.

When Banner is turned off Hulk can punch a hole in reality itself (Onslaught). During the Crossroads arc there was no trace of Banner in Hulk, it was a mindless Hulk who did two infinite feats. Banner took a distant back seat during the Worldbreaker arc.

Secondly since going to Skaar Hulk is more powerful than ever before. This is a Hulk that has taken multiple lightning blasts from Thor and Zues, this a Hulk that has lifted a star, this is a Hulk that has pulled a planet that was being destroyed back together, this is a Hulk that beat Sentry, this is a Hulk that beat Bi-Beat and Wendigo when they were 1000 times more powerful than normal, and bear in mind the original Bi-Beast had strength comparable to Hulk.

"Following exposure to the warp core on the planet Sakaar, the Hulk's strength increased to its highest-ever level, outmatching the physical power of all of Earth's heros.".

When he went Worldbreaker he pleaded with Stark to stop him. His footsteps alone were causing Earthquakes, he was giving off high amounts of gamma radiation and he can go above even that because, as previously stated, his strength and rage are infinite. An UNRESTRAINED Hulk is nigh on impossible to hurt by brute force. Only high end magic, someone with high end matter manipulation, like Blue Marvel, Sentry or the Molecule Man, or someone who can drain vast amounts of energy can defeat an unrestrained Hulk. Thanos does not have any of these abilities. Thanos has been hurt by brute force, Galactus' blast is not high end magic, it is not matter manipulation, it's a high blast of energy. He was also beaten down brute force during the IG, both Thor and Hulk beat him down, of course those scans are rarely shown. During the Avengers Assemble story he was left bloodied and on his knees. He was also hurt and incapacitated by an amped Gamora, again by brute force.

I can't say I agree with it because we clearly see Thor punched helplessly on the ground then be blown away by Thanos energy attack. Certainly seem like Thor was on the losing end of the fight, sadly the battle never came to a conclusion.

And we see later he doesn't have anything but minor scratches, as did Thanos. Thor have a vast array of attacks to call upon. He doesn't win battles in the opening exchanges, especially against strong foes, he takes punishment and triumphs in the end, as most heroes do. He also beat down Thanos during the IG and was the hero that blasted Thanos into space, which trigger the nuke that put him down.

However the later issue further elaborates those heroes on Earth knew they could not beat Thanos, and given the assertion I find it hard to see the battle between Thor and Thanos being on equal footing.

Wrong. Ebony Maw makes that assertion in order to turn Thane against his father. At no point do either Hulk, Hyperion or Thor claim they could not beat Thanos. Thor "One of us will perish here today titan! One of us dies now". That's hardly an indication Thor felt he could not beat Thanos, it suggests the very opposite.

Additionally we see Thanos downright humilated Beta Ray Bill who is every bit a match for Thor and has defeated Thor twice in his prior encounter, though he has also been defeated by Thor on 2 different occasions.

Yes but he avoided Gladiator.

I do not believe this is a valid assessment, because we do not see the specific of the fight. Furthermore, the assumption that Hulk somehow won the fight is contradicted by the fact that we see Hulk himself lying unconscious next to Thor.

Fair point about him being down but the implication is Hulk was able to subdue Thor.

That's a very short battle to draw a meaningful conclusion from and this assertion also does not reasonably account for the fact that Hulk was the one going rogue while Hyperion merely intended to stop Hulk. The fight ended with Hulk being knocked on the ground before Abyss's mind control wore off changing Hulk into Bruce Banner, followed by Hyperion lending a friendly helping hand towards Banner, further demonstrating the friendly mindset Hyperion had.

As I said, they fought evenly, with neither getting an advantage which of course ignores the fact that Hulk has unlimited levels to go to, a point many ignore.

Do not get me wrong I am not claiming Hyperion is necessarily stronger or more powerful than Hulk but rather arguing against the assertion that a short, friendly fight, between the two somehow suggest they are on equal footing. This assertion also ignores various advantages Hyperion has over Hulk such as super-speed, flight, heat vision etc.

Speed has been shown to be an irrelevance in the MU between high end characters, as it should be, and Hulk has taken the heat of star, and he also took Hyperion's heat vision without any ill effect.

Moving on to Gladiator, while Thanos seem scared of him in the short encounter they had that doesn’t automatically suggest much in the debate because it's clearly not consistent with either of their history. Tyrant clearly saw Thanos has vastly superior to Gladiator when they fought as well, and Thanos has a convenient means to defeat Gladiator in the form of telepathy which Gladiator has very little defense against and as such has fallen prey to it more than once. Silver Surfer is also likewise superior to Gladiator and has fought Gladiator in the past and Thanos's history solidifies his superiority over Surfer.

Silver Surfer has a different powerset and is also a pacifist, unlike Gladiator who is a killer and trained fighter. It's actually consistent with Thanos' character to avoid fights he doesn't feel he can win. He avoided fighting Champion twice, he admitted to avoiding fighting Hulk. He didn't fight Hulk during the Avengers Assemble arc, he turned him against his own team-mates. He didn't fight him during Infinity either, punching him and hiding behind his lackeys. Thanos' telepathy is not on the level of Professor X or Emma Frost, it's limited.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Thanos_%28Earth-616%29#Powers

Telepathy: Thanos possesses limited psionic abilities. His mind is invulnerable to most forms of psychic attack. So far Thanos has demonstrated the ability to successfully defend himself from a psychic assault by Moondragon. However, his abilities seemed strictly defensive, as he had to borrow her abilities to enable communication with and to psychically assault Galactus. Later, this apparently changed to a degree, as he mentally triggered a rage in the Hulk.

It is probably evident by now , I certainly do not agree with this assertion. Thanos tanked multiple attacks from an angry Odin without being knocked out while Hulk found himself hopelessly matched in a one sided battle against Zeus which nearly resulted in Hulk's demise. If you are going to use that logic then that suggest Thanos is clearly superior.

Hulk tanked a blast from Galactus. Thanos was done when one smashed through his shields and he begged Galactus to stop. Hulk tanked Zeus' blasts before Zues turned off his powers, Thanos too has been defeated by high end magic. Everything points to Thanos being amped against Odin. It was only Champions hesitation that prevented his defeat, as Thanos clearly states.

"The force field is crumbling. The enrgaed monster will be on me in a moment but then the elder does the unexpected. He backs off when VICTORY is only a few blows away".

Thanos' shields were crumbling from Champion after just four blows and with his force fields crumbled Thanos clearly stated he would have been defeated. Against Galactus once his force fields were penetrated he begged for mercy. The Odin showing is inconsistent with this. Odin is above Champion. Odin did not make a point of mentioning Thanos' power source without reason. Everything points to Thanos being amped against Odin. Thanos most certainly does not have an unlimited source of power. If he did why would he seek out Morg's power source which Tyrant had? Morg does not have omnipotence, he does not have powers superior to Thanos therefore it's reasonable to conclude Thanos wanted more, raw power. If he didn't need it he wouldn't have procured it.

Thanos has also defeated Drax on multiple occasions who has matched Hulk both times they have fought.

That being said I still believe this part is ABC logic and as such should not really dictate the debate.

Again the Hulk that fought Drax is a different Hulk, a weaker Hulk. Furthermore for all the pimp slap nonsense Wolverine has hurt Hulk considerably more than Thanos has ever managed in their brief meetings, his razor sharp, adamantium claws have caused considerably more damage then Thanos' blows.

Hulk neither has infinite strength nor infinite power, though I suppose you could argue he has the potential for infinite strength. Relying on that statement also ignores the fact that Hulk has clearly been defeated by superior opponents in a straight up brawl, Sun God's instance from recent New Avengers issues as well as Titanus easily defeating Hulk in few blows come to mind.

He most certainly does have infinite power.

Secret Wars II 8. The Beyonder states "You are nothing but raging power personified! An infinity of power with no finite element inside!"

Dr Zaxon then scans Hulk "I can hardly believe these readings! He's a veritable blast furnace of limitless organic power! There is no way to even measure his strength!". Tales to Astonish 78

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As he smashes the collector's force field. "His range and his power are boundless". Incredible Hulk 198

Limitless, infinite and boundless.

As for the Sun God defeat that was foreshadowed by Hickman here. New Avengers 19

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"It allows me to throttle back while green with rage.". Clearly implying Banner was throttling back Hulk's anger in the battle. I'm not familiar with the Titannus battle but it's not recent and Hulk has since shown some ability to negate gamma energy being drained. Being depowered as a result of energy being drained is not a weakness for any character.

The comparison between Inbetweener and Galactus is very unreasonable. The two have fought once, which included Galactus just freed from a slow painful death due to being poisoned by having consumed the elders of the universe in a fit of rage, and he clearly had the upper hand on Inbetweener. That clearly demonstrates who among the two is superior.

Maybe so but they're both among the most powerful beings in the MU.

Furthermore, you are not accounting for that fact that Inbetweener's power is derived from the imbalance in nature and having separated into 2 beings weakens him greatly.

Do not get me wrong, I do not disagree that instance with Inbetweener is impressive but it's not really something you could compare with what Thanos did against Galactus or Odin for that matter.

He was at half power but half power for someone of that level makes him considerably more powerful than sky fathers, let alone Thanos. Once he released the Hulk he was able to control Scarlett Witch, Doctor Strange, Ghost Rider (and Deadpool) while his other half showed off his reality warping powers. "Let's see how lucky you are against the random forces of all possible infinite timelines and universes."

No Caption Provided

Hulk being held down by someone of that power is above and beyond anything Thanos has done without amps. Thanos did absolutely nothing of note against Galactus, he used a shield, that is not a feat. A feat is tanking a blast directly, which he didn't do, he ran away and begged. As for Odin again the implication is he had a power source.

I am not sure why a distinction is being made, Thanos tech as well as his shield are part of his normal gear. In fact, virtually every single of his abilities comes from tech.

A shield is an amp, it offers protection to the body, it blocks attacks. You cannot seriously be suggesting that tanking a blast on the body itself is not more impressive than tanking a blast with a shield. Iron Man's armour is an amp, any feats are a testament to his intellect not to his own, physical attributes. Wonder Woman tanking planet busting blasts from Darkseid is a testament to her bracelets not to her. Thor absorbing energies with Mjolnir is a testament to Mjolnir not to him. Thanos using his shields means as much as Captain America being able to tank powerful attacks with his shield.

Galactus isn't a sky father, he is a force of nature. I am not sure why Thor being able to injure Galactus while he otherwise caught up in a telepathic duel with Odin, so fierce that it was causing both of them to sweat would contradict Galactus's superiority over Odin.

Thor has also tanked blasts from Celestials so it's not inconsistent with the power of Mjlonir.

Furthermore, Morg himself was clearly alive even after the fact that his energies where siphoned off by Tyrant and trapped into the said ball. Given Tyrant humiliated Morg rather casually as well as defeated Silver Surfer with very little if any trouble I do not see why Morg's energy would make a huge difference.

If it wasn't going to make a difference and it wasn't significant in any way Thanos would not have sought it. Clearly he thought it was valuable enough to pursue it.

Lastly, Morg that fought Thanos had be re-modeled by Tyrant and as such we do not know how powerful he was, though despite temporarily overwhelming Thanos for 1 page Morg does not do anything impressive and once off his feat Thanos dispatches off Morg without much trouble.

You're ignoring the fact Ganyeme and Terrax assisted Thanos.

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#124  Edited By UberHulk

@bflynn316 I am more knowledgeable than other posters, I am more thorough and I do not deliberately, deceitfully ignore Thanos' less than impressive showings, such as getting beaten down by Hulk and Thor during IG before having to resort to using an amp to fight back, a point many, deliberately, overlook. Going by the past? This is what has happened in the past. "Dampened his cosmic senses!", "Thanos is actually playing by the rules.". That is what happens without amps against Professor Hulk, one of the weakest Hulks, then he used the IG to shrink Hulk. Yes that's a clear sign of superiority.

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Then there's the beating he took in Avengers Assemble.

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@uberhulk: Hulk has help of a huge team in the second one, and the help of a pre-retcon Drax in the first. Plus in the first Thanos wasn't fighting back (as Hulk says) and we still don't see Hulk doing any serious damage. You point out that others "deliberately, deceitfully ignore Thanos' less than impressive showings" yet you do EXACTLY THE SAME FOR HULK. But whatever I'm not going to bother stepping into this argument, you're just railing at the wind anyway. Everyone knows Hulk can't beat Thanos.

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@bflynn316: Hulk had the help of a team in the second one? And what did Thanos have in Infinity? What did he do? Punch Hulk and hide behind his team-mates. What damage did Thanos do to Hulk? None whatsoever. Not a scratch. Thanos was fighting back at first, otherwise he wouldn't have sent Drax flying. He stopped fighting as Hulk was giving him a beat down. I don't ignore Hulk's low showings, most people are familiar with them. Difference being most people like to pretend Thanos doesn't have low showings or, in fact, aren't even aware of them because their views of Thanos are based on a handful of scans and the opinions of fanboys, not from actually reading his books. It's amazing, simply amazing we rarely see the scans of Hulk and Thor beating down Thanos during the IG. Amazing Gamora beating the crap out of his isn't mentioned. Amazing his defeats to Drax are rarely mentioned. Retconned Drax? That's right. This one is weaker than classic Drax.

Everyone knows Hulk can't beat Thanos

See above.

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Thanos

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#128  Edited By mysticmedivh

Thanos.