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#1 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

Betatesthighlander1

VS

@diredrill

The Battle

So this is how this Tourney will work each of the 4 rounds will be set in 4 of the main media choices and you're character will have to follow some rules of this universe and also you'll get some objects or Helpers from that world.

Round 1.

''Your lives have ended, what you do with them now is up to me...that the theory anyway''

Round one will be set in...Manga and the specific manga will Be GANTZ

Round One Will Be Following these gantz rules(I know some of you don't know what Gantz is)

  • Win By Death
  • In Character-Moral On
  • Basic Knowledge of Opponents
  • You Can only win By BFR if you have the Y guns

Prep will work like this: Your characters will have 8 hour in their own universes to gather or build objects they would normally use in a battle situation.Then they all will be teleportated to the Gantz room where they will come together, receive the basic knowledge of their opponents,and come up with a plan for 4 hours.Then The will be teleported to the designated battle arena.

Obects

Before the Battle start you will choose one of these 4 device to be given to Each of You're Characters

Devices:

  • Gantz Controllers:This hand held device will give your characters the exact location of their opponents and will grant them invisibility
  • Gantz Sword: A sword that can expend to any length and can cut though virtually anything
  • Gantz Y Gun : Small Hand held Gun that shoot a try lazer that warp around a single opponent and bfr a character to an unknown location(Lazer can be broken by opponents teammates)
  • Gantz Monobike: A Two person bike that can travel at a good 100 mph and enter steath(invisible)mode

Battle Setting

Fight Will take place in...

The Fire Nation Capital-Each team will start at the opposite sides the outer border of the Castle

Please note: The city will be filled with bystanders but you;re character will be invisible to them but not intangible (that means that what you do can effect them)

And remember In Character-and Moral(if t your character have them) on

Debate: Debating will be for 5 days

Prize

#2 Edited by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1:

I'll start by posting the gear for my team that me and TGWAT agreed upon. Note that Isaac is without his Stasis Module because TGWAT said no because of time manipulation.

Gantz Sword

Isaac Clarke - Zealot Suit, Kinesis Module, Plasma Cutter, Force Gun, Contact Beam, Detonator

Oberon Sexton (Joker) - Comically Oversized Pistol, Bladed Throwing Cards, Joker Venom Bombs

T-Girl - The 12 Talismans

Firefly - Dual Pistols, Firefly Pod and Detonator.

For my 4 hours of prep, my team spends the first hour talking about what each of them can do and how they do it. The Joker then kills the entirety of my team and spends the next 3 hours putting it on and training with it. My entire arsenal will be combined into one powerful psychopath.

I'll get to my attack plan later but given how powerful the Joker now is, he won't be easy to stop.

#3 Edited by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1

The Plan:

The Plan is simple. Using the Snake Talisman, the Joker becomes invisible. Using the Rabbit and Rooster Talisman, the Joker gains sonic level flight. He uses these to close the distance where he simply slices your team in half with the Gantz blade. None of your guys appear to have any level of durability so they all get eviscerated without being able to defend themselves.

#4 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1:

I'll start by posting the gear for my team that me and TGWAT agreed upon. Note that Isaac is without his Stasis Module because TGWAT said no because of time manipulation.

Gantz Sword

Isaac Clarke - Zealot Suit, Kinesis Module, Plasma Cutter, Force Gun, Contact Beam, Detonator

Oberon Sexton (Joker) - Comically Oversized Pistol, Bladed Throwing Cards, Joker Venom Bombs

T-Girl - The 12 Talismans

Firefly - Dual Pistols, Firefly Pod and Detonator.

For my 4 hours of prep, my team spends the first hour talking about what each of them can do and how they do it. The Joker then kills the entirety of my team and spends the next 3 hours putting it on and training with it. My entire arsenal will be combined into one powerful psychopath.

I'll get to my attack plan later but given how powerful the Joker now is, he won't be easy to stop.

I don't know how fair the twelve talismans is, considering that they'd make her immortal

#5 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

as for my gear

Matrix: all his weapons from the end, and the Gantz Gun, heat vision googles, flamethrower, assorted gadgets

Thorkell: chainmail, helmet, Axe, sword, seax, Gantz Y sword, a berserker mushroom

Taskmaster: all of his regular arsenal, Gantz Monobike, heat vision goggles, flamethrower, assorted gadgets

Demona: laser guns, assorted mideival weapons, heat-vision goggles, flamethrower, assorted gadgets

#6 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dog keeps her from being mortally wounded and the Horse heals the damage but she can still be KOed and hurt. Even without them, you won't touch Super Joker due to speed and invisibility.

#7 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dog keeps her from being mortally wounded and the Horse heals the damage but she can still be KOed and hurt. Even without them, you won't touch Super Joker due to speed and invisibility.

I'm saying that 12 Talisman is still far to OP

and they can't have anything more than sonic speed, so the Rabbit is questionable

also, considering that everyone is in character, Joker should have a hard time killing everyone else in your team, and will be pretty tired/wounded by the time they fought kine

#8 Edited by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: 12 Talismans are powerful but they have a number of weaknesses. Namely had you chosen a good enough magic user you could have stopped them with no issue. The Rabbit's speed is controllable like a car. I just can't go over the speed of sound which is still far and away faster than your entire team. They don't breach any rules.

The Joker will be figuring out how to slaughter my team the entire time they are talking shop. Killing my team will be easy once he has asked to examine the Horse and Dog Talisman. Joker Venom kills everyone with no effort at all on the Joker's part. Firefly and Isaac are easy kills since neither of them are smart enough to expect this form of treachery. Once he has the Dog and Horse, he gains superhuman stamina so it is really moot.

#9 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: 12 Talismans are powerful but they have a number of weaknesses. Namely had you chosen a good enough magic user you could have stopped them with no issue. The Rabbit's speed is controllable like a car. I just can't go over the speed of sound which is still far and away faster than your entire team. They don't breach any rules.

still really OP, I don't think that this would be allowed

The Joker will be figuring out how to slaughter my team the entire time they are talking shop. Killing my team will be easy once he has asked to examine the Horse and Dog Talisman. Joker Venom kills everyone with no effort at all on the Joker's part. Firefly and Isaac are easy kills since neither of them are smart enough to expect this form of treachery. Once he has the Dog and Horse, he gains superhuman stamina so it is really moot.

I think Jade would be a bit cautious about letting someone else hold the Talisman

also, I would Imagine Isaac Clark would be paranoid enough to keep a bead on The Joker; not to mention Firefly

#10 Posted by Angryprune (684 posts) - - Show Bio

may I interrupt?

#11 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: @angryprune: ?

You can ask TGWTH if you want but nothing breaks the rules specifically.

Jade loves showing off her toys especially when Oberon Sexton suggests he'll write a book about her. Remember, the Joker fooled Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Damien Wayne into thinking he was Oberon Sexton. Fooling Jade should be no problem at all.

Isaac opens his helmet a retarded amount of times while running around the Sprawl. This results in him almost dying several times. His paranoia is only for necromorphs, he falls into every trap set for him by pretty much everyone.

Firefly was easily fooled by Storm Shadow, so what makes you think the Joker can't? Remember, he is disguised as Oberon Sexton, an author.

Joker takes my team unaware with ease.

I find it hilarious how you are defending my team against me because you don't want to face an incredibly powerful Joker.

#12 Posted by Angryprune (684 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just going to put it out there

wouldn't it be tricky for Joker to kill the other members of your team?

as he is probably the weakest member combat wise

#13 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

I was just going to put it out there

wouldn't it be tricky for Joker to kill the other members of your team?

as he is probably the weakest member combat wise

I know, right?

@betatesthighlander1: @angryprune: ?

You can ask TGWTH if you want but nothing breaks the rules specifically.

@thatguywithheadphones what do you think of Jade having all twelve Talismans

Jade loves showing off her toys especially when Oberon Sexton suggests he'll write a book about her. Remember, the Joker fooled Dick Grayson, Tim Drake, and Damien Wayne into thinking he was Oberon Sexton. Fooling Jade should be no problem at all.

eh, that would require a lot of planning on his part, and the Robins are people bound to the whims of DC writers

Isaac opens his helmet a retarded amount of times while running around the Sprawl. This results in him almost dying several times. His paranoia is only for necromorphs, he falls into every trap set for him by pretty much everyone.

if you say so (not sure if I'm buying it)

Firefly was easily fooled by Storm Shadow, so what makes you think the Joker can't? Remember, he is disguised as Oberon Sexton, an author.

eh, still not very sure

Joker takes my team unaware with ease.

not so sure about that one

I find it hilarious how you are defending my team against me because you don't want to face an incredibly powerful Joker.

I still think we could beat Joker if you weren't going beyond power limits with all the Talismans

even then, I think we should still be able to take him

#14 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: @angryprune:

The Joker isn't even close to the weakest combat wise, Isaac is by far the weakest combatant here. The Joker killed the entire Royal Flush gang by himself and they all have technological enhancements and one of them is a superpowered android. He also headbutted Ra's Al Ghul in front of Talia Al Ghul and managed to escape them both and kill 3 of Ra's guards all while in straitjacket. When the Joker was impersonating Oberon Sexton, he and Damien fought off a bunch of assassins and Damien later said that he was fighting like his dad, otherwise known as Batman. During Salvation Run he managed to get the drop on Gorilla Grodd and push him off a cliff. Gorilla Grodd is a superstrong, superfast, gorilla with telekinesis and telepathy, and the Joker was fast enough to push him over a cliff. The Joker is an incredibly good combatant, why do you think pretty much every villain is scared of him? You probably think that he is a bad fighter because he always gets messed up by Batman, right? He loses to Batman on purpose because he wants Batman to kill him. Every single fight he has with Batman involves his Character Induced Stupidity (CIS) getting in the way. You don't have Batman on your team so there is no CIS to keep the Joker from using lethal force.

Planning?

Step 1: Convince Jade to hand me Horse and Dog Talisman. The Joker is an amazing manipulator, just ask Mr. Mxy about that.

Step 2: Deploy joker Venom Gas, killing all of them simultaneously. Joker Venom has worked on Apokoliptians with no problem before so don't think any of these people have any resistance to it. They die in seconds.

Step 3: Profit

You also realize that the Joker is a prepmaster, right? And he has 8 hours of prep time. His plans would already have been made before hand.

Pretty much every cutscene where Isaac is talking to someone face to face, he has his helmet off. As he is talking to my team face to face, he'll have his helmet off and fall prey to this attack. Isaac is a complete moron, had I not had the Joker kill him, your team would have without much difficulty.

Your team has 0 superhuman senses so how do you detect my invisible, superfast, flying, indestructible sword wielder. Your team can do absolutely nothing.

Is that Demona from Gargoyles? Hah, in the daytime she is either a worthless human or a worthless stone. Bad character choice.

#15 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill said:

@betatesthighlander1: @angryprune:

The Joker isn't even close to the weakest combat wise, Isaac is by far the weakest combatant here. The Joker killed the entire Royal Flush gang by himself and they all have technological enhancements and one of them is a superpowered android. He also headbutted Ra's Al Ghul in front of Talia Al Ghul and managed to escape them both and kill 3 of Ra's guards all while in straitjacket. When the Joker was impersonating Oberon Sexton, he and Damien fought off a bunch of assassins and Damien later said that he was fighting like his dad, otherwise known as Batman. During Salvation Run he managed to get the drop on Gorilla Grodd and push him off a cliff. Gorilla Grodd is a superstrong, superfast, gorilla with telekinesis and telepathy, and the Joker was fast enough to push him over a cliff. The Joker is an incredibly good combatant, why do you think pretty much every villain is scared of him? You probably think that he is a bad fighter because he always gets messed up by Batman, right? He loses to Batman on purpose because he wants Batman to kill him. Every single fight he has with Batman involves his Character Induced Stupidity (CIS) getting in the way. You don't have Batman on your team so there is no CIS to keep the Joker from using lethal force.

we have no idea how the Royal Flush Gang was actually killed (was all off-panel)

and your really gonna say the majotrity of his showings are CIS?

that's just Hax

@diredrill said:

Planning?

Step 1: Convince Jade to hand me Horse and Dog Talisman. The Joker is an amazing manipulator, just ask Mr. Mxy about that.

how will he even know what those are?

@diredrill said:

Step 2: Deploy joker Venom Gas, killing all of them simultaneously. Joker Venom has worked on Apokoliptians with no problem before so don't think any of these people have any resistance to it. They die in seconds.

aren't the Deadspace and GI Joe guys wearing Gas Masks?

also, when did it work on Apokoliptikans?

@diredrill said:

Step 3: Profit

hey, that joke's new

@diredrill said:

You also realize that the Joker is a prepmaster, right? And he has 8 hours of prep time. His plans would already have been made before hand.

I don't think so

I also don't know if that's in-character for the Joker

@diredrill said:

Pretty much every cutscene where Isaac is talking to someone face to face, he has his helmet off. As he is talking to my team face to face, he'll have his helmet off and fall prey to this attack. Isaac is a complete moron, had I not had the Joker kill him, your team would have without much difficulty.

couldn't he just stick it on as soon as the gas was on?

@diredrill said:

Your team has 0 superhuman senses so how do you detect my invisible, superfast, flying, indestructible sword wielder. Your team can do absolutely nothing.

Taskmaster could copy Daredecvil's skills off the top of my head

or Demona could sniff him

and John Matrix is an 80's action hero written by Jeph Loeb and played by Arnold Schwarzenegger

if he shot randomly, he would hit his opponent

@diredrill said:

Is that Demona from Gargoyles? Hah, in the daytime she is either a worthless human or a worthless stone. Bad character choice.

she's not "worthless" as a human

and I kinda presumed thjis fight would eb at night

seriously, @thatguywithheadphones, we need mediation

#16 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (9837 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill:

oh, and wielding the Tiger is going to turn the Joker into two opposing Jokers

#19 Edited by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@thatguywithheadphones:I am curious as to why you would ban the Rat?

Also, I looked it up, there are no showings of the Rabbit being used at speeds faster than sonic. Its best speed feat is running on water which you can do at about 80-ish km/hr which is less than the speed of sound. At no point does using the Rabbit Talisman produce a sonic boom, so we know it never pushes past the speed of sound. We know that it should do this because it generates wind when it passes by people which means it is still subject to air pressure.

@betatesthighlander1

Emperor Joker proves that every showing of him against Batman is in fact CIS. Even though it was off panel, he still did it without using other people because then we would see dead mooks. The Joker was still able to humiliate Ra's Al Ghul in a straitjacket. Ra's is a better combatant than most of your team.

I said in my prep that they would explain exactly what each of them could do. The Joker would lie obviously because he does that.

Firefly is not wearing a gas mask, just a cloth over his face. Again, Isaac ALWAYS takes off his helmet to talk to people. He even takes it off to talk to his dead wife who is an hallucination who is actively trying to get him killed. Do you want me start posting all the videos of him doing this? No helmet = no protection from Joker Venom. It takes 3 seconds for his helmet to come back on, Joker Venom works faster than that. Joker Venom worked on Grayven son of Darkseid during the Joker's Last Laugh. It is one of the most deadly poisons in comics.

Have you not read the Last Laugh? He takes over the entire planet after being told he is going to die. Did I mention that he did this from a jail cell? You show me another man who can with as little prep as he had take over an entire planet with as few resources.

Taskmaster doesn't copy powers, he copies skills. Daredevil's Radar Sense is a power not a skill.

Nothing I have seen on Thorkell suggests he has any enhanced senses. Demona will be human for this fight so she'll be without any of her Gargoyle senses. My guy can fly, shooting randomly would be a waste of time as I can come from a near infinite amount of angles. As I said, no one on your team can detect the Joker so he'll be able to cut your team in half from a couple hundred feet up with his Gantz Sword. No Detection = Death. You can't counter this strategy.

The Tiger only does that when it is separated which it only does when broken in half generally on accident.

#20 Edited by Angryprune (684 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: @angryprune:

The Joker isn't even close to the weakest combat wise, Isaac is by far the weakest combatant here. The Joker killed the entire Royal Flush gang by himself and they all have technological enhancements and one of them is a superpowered android. He also headbutted Ra's Al Ghul in front of Talia Al Ghul and managed to escape them both and kill 3 of Ra's guards all while in straitjacket. When the Joker was impersonating Oberon Sexton, he and Damien fought off a bunch of assassins and Damien later said that he was fighting like his dad, otherwise known as Batman. During Salvation Run he managed to get the drop on Gorilla Grodd and push him off a cliff. Gorilla Grodd is a superstrong, superfast, gorilla with telekinesis and telepathy, and the Joker was fast enough to push him over a cliff. The Joker is an incredibly good combatant, why do you think pretty much every villain is scared of him? You probably think that he is a bad fighter because he always gets messed up by Batman, right? He loses to Batman on purpose because he wants Batman to kill him. Every single fight he has with Batman involves his Character Induced Stupidity (CIS) getting in the way. You don't have Batman on your team so there is no CIS to keep the Joker from using lethal force.

Planning?

Step 1: Convince Jade to hand me Horse and Dog Talisman. The Joker is an amazing manipulator, just ask Mr. Mxy about that.

Step 2: Deploy joker Venom Gas, killing all of them simultaneously. Joker Venom has worked on Apokoliptians with no problem before so don't think any of these people have any resistance to it. They die in seconds.

Step 3: Profit

You also realize that the Joker is a prepmaster, right? And he has 8 hours of prep time. His plans would already have been made before hand.

Pretty much every cutscene where Isaac is talking to someone face to face, he has his helmet off. As he is talking to my team face to face, he'll have his helmet off and fall prey to this attack. Isaac is a complete moron, had I not had the Joker kill him, your team would have without much difficulty.

Your team has 0 superhuman senses so how do you detect my invisible, superfast, flying, indestructible sword wielder. Your team can do absolutely nothing.

Is that Demona from Gargoyles? Hah, in the daytime she is either a worthless human or a worthless stone. Bad character choice.

Isaac can stomp and punch body parts off

his mask would block any Joker poison

#21 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1

Emperor Joker proves that every showing of him against Batman is in fact CIS. Even though it was off panel, he still did it without using other people because then we would see dead mooks. The Joker was still able to humiliate Ra's Al Ghul in a straitjacket. Ra's is a better combatant than most of your team.

Joker got Godpowers for that arc

also, we don't know that Joker didn't just, say, clean up his mooks, we have no idea what happened in there, so its not a feat

and I'm sayoing that PIS is something that goes against the majority of showings, so this ever-so-convenient battle your not showing us seems like PIS

I said in my prep that they would explain exactly what each of them could do. The Joker would lie obviously because he does that.

the Joker hardly ever just up and lies about being the Joker to strangers

Firefly is not wearing a gas mask, just a cloth over his face. Again, Isaac ALWAYS takes off his helmet to talk to people. He even takes it off to talk to his dead wife who is an hallucination who is actively trying to get him killed. Do you want me start posting all the videos of him doing this? No helmet = no protection from Joker Venom. It takes 3 seconds for his helmet to come back on, Joker Venom works faster than that. Joker Venom worked on Grayven son of Darkseid during the Joker's Last Laugh. It is one of the most deadly poisons in comics.

yesh, I'm gonna say that the Grayven feat was WIS, than again, we have no poison=-resistance feats for grayven, so maybe he really does just have regular poison

again, I don't think Joker Venom works faster than he can get his helmet on

Have you not read the Last Laugh? He takes over the entire planet after being told he is going to die. Did I mention that he did this from a jail cell? You show me another man who can with as little prep as he had take over an entire planet with as few resources.

yeah, serious WIS from the sound of it

and again, I don't think he's getting that kind of resources here, and we really have no idea how long he was preparing in taht arc

Taskmaster doesn't copy powers, he copies skills. Daredevil's Radar Sense is a power not a skill.

but he could copy his other blindness coping-mechanisms

he kind of does

how did you conclude that Demona would be in human form?

I can have John Matrix shoot him, easy as that

The Tiger only does that when it is separated which it only does when broken in half generally on accident.

but it was neevr put back together

#22 Edited by dondave (33296 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

Online
#23 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

This should be good

how much longer is this supposed to last 9also, where is your battle

#24 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1:

Yes, he had God Powers but he was unable to kill Batman because Batman is literally his whole universe. They pan out to show that the Joker had reformed the DC Universe into Batman and that was how they stopped him from destroying it after the Joker humiliated the Spectre. The Joker intentionally loses to Batman because he wants Batman to kill him. The Joker figured out what no other person really has, you can't kill Batman with bullets or knives or punches because Batman is an idea and if you kill the man, you will just spawn more. So how do you kill an idea? You corrupt it, you make it break its own rules and expose its hypocrisy. Batman's biggest rule is that he does not kill, get him to kill you and you kill Batman in the process.

You mean this battle?

This is the Joker killing a parademon. This is him dodging the archer Splitshot and then killing him with his own bow. This is him hitting Wonder Woman with his flower, you might remember that she has better reaction time and speed than every character in this tourney. This is him beating the crap out of the Huntress.

The Joker lies all the time to everybody. He lied to Harley to convince her to switch sides when he had no idea who Harley was. He also lied to the entire Batfamily, sans Batman, about being Oberon Sexton for months. When famed magician Loxias found the Joker and wanted to know more about the Joker's stagecraft, the Joker killed him and usurped his identity and money. He spent the next couple weeks performing on stage in front of hundreds in Loxias' name. He was so good at it, that Zatanna could not even tell that it was the Joker.

Joker Venom does work that fast. You'll of course note that that is Firestorm and a single spray did him in in the next panel after the spraying.

In the Joker's Last Laugh, the Doctor's tell him he has a brain tumor and that he will die in a short time. Mere moments after that he is in the cafeteria and sets about taking over Earth. Not too much prep there.

Face it, the Joker will kill my team, take their goodies and slaughter your team.

Blind Coping Mechanism? You mean his superpowers? Also, blind fighting only helps you if the target isn't a couple hundred feet in the air wielding an impossibly long sword.

Then by all means show me evidence of Thorkell's superhuman sense of smell. Nothing, and I mean nothing, online supports that claim.

This fight takes place during the day, she is either stone or human. I'll let you pick which one you want.

How does John Matrix shoot him? The predator killed countless of John's men without John being able to so much as slow him down. John has a horrible track record against invisible people.

The Tiger magically seals itself back together when the two Jackies merged back into one. When the enforcers gain access to all of the Talismans, Hak Foo is seen using a fully intact Tiger Talisman i completely the wrong way. It doesn't break and he doesn't split into two.

@angryprune:

Isaac always takes his helmet off to talk to people. It won't be on when he is prepping with my team. Had he left his stupid helmet on, the entire last battle of Dead Space 2 wouldn't have happened. Also, the guy falls for every possible trap. He fell into the Marker's trap, the Church's trap, and Stross' trap despite specific warnings that these were traps (Dead Girlfriend always attacking you, meeting in the church, Stross being crazy. He is the one guy on the team, the Joker should have no problem with.

#25 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill said:

@betatesthighlander1:

Yes, he had God Powers but he was unable to kill Batman because Batman is literally his whole universe. They pan out to show that the Joker had reformed the DC Universe into Batman and that was how they stopped him from destroying it after the Joker humiliated the Spectre. The Joker intentionally loses to Batman because he wants Batman to kill him. The Joker figured out what no other person really has, you can't kill Batman with bullets or knives or punches because Batman is an idea and if you kill the man, you will just spawn more. So how do you kill an idea? You corrupt it, you make it break its own rules and expose its hypocrisy. Batman's biggest rule is that he does not kill, get him to kill you and you kill Batman in the process.

that is entirely speculative

@diredrill said:

You mean this battle?

yeah, that shows Joker using surprise effectively, but no real combat feats that anyone on my team couldn't replicate

@diredrill said:

This is the Joker killing a parademon. This is him dodging the archer Splitshot and then killing him with his own bow. This is him hitting Wonder Woman with his flower, you might remember that she has better reaction time and speed than every character in this tourney. This is him beating the crap out of the Huntress.

The Parademon required a space-gun (anyone could do that)

I don't even know who Slipshot is

again, the flower stuff was just him being a dick, anyone else could do that if they ahd weapons

Huntress...never really impressed me, I mean, she's nowhere near anyone on my team

@diredrill said:

The Joker lies all the time to everybody. He lied to Harley to convince her to switch sides when he had no idea who Harley was. He also lied to the entire Batfamily, sans Batman, about being Oberon Sexton for months. When famed magician Loxias found the Joker and wanted to know more about the Joker's stagecraft, the Joker killed him and usurped his identity and money. He spent the next couple weeks performing on stage in front of hundreds in Loxias' name. He was so good at it, that Zatanna could not even tell that it was the Joker.

okay, Zatanna can't recognize people evry well, this sounds like extreme WIS

@diredrill said:

Joker Venom does work that fast. You'll of course note that that is Firestorm and a single spray did him in in the next panel after the spraying.

it certainly didn't kill him, so I don't see how Joker's going to kill your whole team

@diredrill said:

In the Joker's Last Laugh, the Doctor's tell him he has a brain tumor and that he will die in a short time. Mere moments after that he is in the cafeteria and sets about taking over Earth. Not too much prep there.

so the prison has an incompetent staff, that means essentially nothing when he has to fight people who aren't impeded by plot

@diredrill said:

Face it, the Joker will kill my team, take their goodies and slaughter your team.

Well, by your definitions of feats, Joker shouldn't be able to kill Jade (who regularly survives conforntations with deamons)

there are three scenarios here

1) he starts with Firefly, Dead Space kills him

2) he starts with Jade, Dead Space kills him

3) he starts with d\Dead Space, Jade runs away with as many Talismans as as she can find; the team is to split to fight effectively

@diredrill said:

Blind Coping Mechanism? You mean his superpowers? Also, blind fighting only helps you if the target isn't a couple hundred feet in the air wielding an impossibly long sword.

you do realize that we have the same weapons in considerably more competent hands?

and if Daredevil won't do it for you, he3 can copy the mechanisms of Stick

@diredrill said:

This fight takes place during the day, she is either stone or human. I'll let you pick which one you want.

pretty sure this fight takes place at night

@diredrill said:

How does John Matrix shoot him? The predator killed countless of John's men without John being able to so much as slow him down. John has a horrible track record against invisible people.

.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................John Matrix wasn't even in Predator

@diredrill said:

The Tiger magically seals itself back together when the two Jackies merged back into one. When the enforcers gain access to all of the Talismans, Hak Foo is seen using a fully intact Tiger Talisman i completely the wrong way. It doesn't break and he doesn't split into two.

I remember nothing of the sort happening

#26 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything we are doing here is entirely speculative.

How do you explain the time in which the Joker actually saves Batman? Or how about when he doesn't kill Batman during Batman RIP? All of this proves my point. The Joker wants to kill Batman not Bruce Wayne.

Ra's Al Ghul is easily Batman's equal in speed and not far behind him in skill. Being able to do that and get away is a feat. You realize the Joker punched the Parademon, disarmed him, and shot him before the Parademon could react. Anyone can do that? So Parademons are no threat at all to anyone. Wonder Woman is a speedster who can block bullets after they are fired, him even touching her is a feat of speed. Huntress still easily kills Human Demona, John Matrix, and does pretty well against Taskmaster.

I mentioned Zatanna because she knew Loxias and had a worked with him before and the Joker fooled her with problem. Would have killed her too had she not used her blood to write a spell out. When you have to continually use the word WIS to discredit an action, it means it is consistent.

Not all Joker Venom is designed for the same purposes. Sometimes it will kill, sometimes it will disable, and sometimes it will mind control. It depends on what he needs it to do at the time. At that time, they needed to disable as they needed him alive. It did its job in a single panel. He has 8 hours prep, so he can easily arm himself with every form of Joker Venom he deems fit.

The prison was being run by Shilo Norman, otherwise known as Mr. Miracle. Black Canary was also on hand. Are you really going to suggest that Mr. Miracle is incompetent? This guy can break out of any prison and any device. He was completely useless against the Joker.

The Joker is using Joker Venom in gaseous form. He kills them all simultaneously like I have previously said. Have you been reading my posts? They all die at the same time.

I have access to an incredible armory of weapons your team can't even imagine.

Stick uses his Chi to amp his senses like Iron Fist. Taskmaster has never displayed ANY Chi Manipulation abilities. When are you going to get that Taskmaster has displayed nothing that suggests he could sense an invisible foe hundreds of feet in the air slicing an impossibly long blade through his body.

Take a look at that picture, does it look like night to you? Nope, which means you have Human or Stone Demona.

I notice that you have completely dropped the Thorkell point. Thanks for the concession.

Hold on, you have the guy from Commando? Then you stand absolutely no chance. He doesn't even have the capability to understand the threat that is coming his way.

17:15 Hak Foo attempts to incorrectly use the Tiger Talisman note how he doesn't split into two.

You have posted nothing but baseless claims and have yet to post a strategy yourself. Your team dies in one fell swoop. I am actually okay with going to voting now because you have 0 counters to my invisibility.

#27 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything we are doing here is entirely speculative.

yeah, but we can at least try to base it off of the media (this is a messgae aimed at me?)

How do you explain the time in which the Joker actually saves Batman? Or how about when he doesn't kill Batman during Batman RIP? All of this proves my point. The Joker wants to kill Batman not Bruce Wayne.

what are you talking about at this point?

Ra's Al Ghul is easily Batman's equal in speed and not far behind him in skill. Being able to do that and get away is a feat. You realize the Joker punched the Parademon, disarmed him, and shot him before the Parademon could react. Anyone can do that? So Parademons are no threat at all to anyone. Wonder Woman is a speedster who can block bullets after they are fired, him even touching her is a feat of speed. Huntress still easily kills Human Demona, John Matrix, and does pretty well against Taskmaster.

the Ra's stuff didn't really ahve Joker do anything but be a dick and run away

Parademons aren't really that impressive in the modern era, normal people can usually stand up to them

WW has also been punked by people like Deathstroke, and Joker surprised her their, so it's not really a speed feat

and with Huntress, your using ABC logic, and not even giving a connection between B and C, that's not evenb really ana rgument

I mentioned Zatanna because she knew Loxias and had a worked with him before and the Joker fooled her with problem. Would have killed her too had she not used her blood to write a spell out. When you have to continually use the word WIS to discredit an action, it means it is consistent.

okay, so Zatanna can't recognize people very well, what's your point?

Not all Joker Venom is designed for the same purposes. Sometimes it will kill, sometimes it will disable, and sometimes it will mind control. It depends on what he needs it to do at the time. At that time, they needed to disable as they needed him alive. It did its job in a single panel. He has 8 hours prep, so he can easily arm himself with every form of Joker Venom he deems fit.

okay then, you still haven't shown me a feat for the killing venom

The prison was being run by Shilo Norman, otherwise known as Mr. Miracle. Black Canary was also on hand. Are you really going to suggest that Mr. Miracle is incompetent? This guy can break out of any prison and any device. He was completely useless against the Joker.

that wasn't Scott Free, that wasn't even someone with superpowers

and breaking out of traps is a lot different than running a prison

The Joker is using Joker Venom in gaseous form. He kills them all simultaneously like I have previously said. Have you been reading my posts? They all die at the same time.

but Jade would probably be able to sneak out, considering what she's done before

I have access to an incredible armory of weapons your team can't even imagine.

John Matrix and Taskmaster can imagine a lot

Demona can to for that matter

Stick uses his Chi to amp his senses like Iron Fist. Taskmaster has never displayed ANY Chi Manipulation abilities. When are you going to get that Taskmaster has displayed nothing that suggests he could sense an invisible foe hundreds of feet in the air slicing an impossibly long blade through his body.

t

but Chi is something everyone has, and there's no evidence that Taskmaster couldn't

Take a look at that picture, does it look like night to you? Nope, which means you have Human or Stone Demona.

@thatguywithheadphones can this battle take place at night?

if not, would it be OK to have one of my characters be in their night-mode?

Hold on, you have the guy from Commando? Then you stand absolutely no chance. He doesn't even have the capability to understand the threat that is coming his way.

what are you even talking about?

guy destroyed everything in his path, and he's no stranger to weird stuff, anyways, that was a pretty sloppy argument against him

17:15 Hak Foo attempts to incorrectly use the Tiger Talisman note how he doesn't split into two.

oh, OK then

You have posted nothing but baseless claims and have yet to post a strategy yourself. Your team dies in one fell swoop. I am actually okay with going to voting now because you have 0 counters to my invisibility.

counters to invisibility?

Taskmaster, demona, and Joihn all get heat vision goggles for the team, and then they shoot Joker

bam, your entire strategy ruined

#28 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

All of those showings for the Joker show that his speed and viciousness are enough to overcome people who are far superior to a good amount of your team. The fact that you had to go to Deathstroke, a guy who would singlehandedly kill your entire team, is telling. ABC Logic works when you are trying to determine reaction time and speed. For instance, if Train A is faster than Train B and Train C is faster than Train A is Train C faster than Train B? See, for determining speed it is completely acceptable which is the thing at issue here.

The whole point is that the Joker is a capable liar who will be able to easily complete the objectives as I have defined.

So you are suggesting that Shilo Norman is incompetent? Seems legit.

This shows a reporter fine in panel and dead in the next. Look at the very top and you see she has human colored skin and then by the next panel she is Joker White. She falls over dead. Jade is the first to die as she'll be letting him look over the talismans at the time.

John can't imagine anything like what the Joker can field. The Plasma Cutter alone is more advanced than anything that John has ever seen and it is a toy compared to Firefly's Fireflies. I can send a swarm of fireflies into your team that I can explode at will. Taskmaster has very limited imagination which is why he is a joke. Commando is a movie about a guy going against other humans with weapons more primitive than we have now at no point does he face off against magic, aliens, or technology so advanced that it makes all of his tech look like children's toys. He won't even understand what he is facing much less be of any value here.

Again, you chose poorly when it comes to Demona and you should not be rewarded for that. Had I chosen a Mermaid and we were in a desert should my Mermaid be hydrated magically? Nope, you made the decision, you suffer the consequences.

The Goggles are not part of your standard gear nor do you know what you will be up against while they are gathering gear so since you did not think to add it initially, they don't get it now. Also as this is during the day, the Joker can keep the sun behind him and blind your devices. Thanks for conceding the point though it makes my job all the easier.

My team is too well thought out and too well equipped to be even slowed down by your team. He kills them all in the first minute of battle.

#29 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: would it kill you to mention me when you respond?

or do you really just not want me to argue back that badly?

#30 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill said:

All of those showings for the Joker show that his speed and viciousness are enough to overcome people who are far superior to a good amount of your team. The fact that you had to go to Deathstroke, a guy who would singlehandedly kill your entire team, is telling. ABC Logic works when you are trying to determine reaction time and speed. For instance, if Train A is faster than Train B and Train C is faster than Train A is Train C faster than Train B? See, for determining speed it is completely acceptable which is the thing at issue here.

no, its not

and again, you fail to prove Deathstroke would kill my entire team

your being pretty unreasonable

@diredrill said:

The whole point is that the Joker is a capable liar who will be able to easily complete the objectives as I have defined.

not if he had to go up against people who had their own miinds and were not merely thralls of the Joker-stroking plot

@diredrill said:

So you are suggesting that Shilo Norman is incompetent? Seems legit.

if he would allow his prisoner explosives, than he obviously is

@diredrill said:

This shows a reporter fine in panel and dead in the next. Look at the very top and you see she has human colored skin and then by the next panel she is Joker White. She falls over dead. Jade is the first to die as she'll be letting him look over the talismans at the time.

this never shows the female reporter as anything other than a Joker, now your just lying

@diredrill said:

John can't imagine anything like what the Joker can field. The Plasma Cutter alone is more advanced than anything that John has ever seen and it is a toy compared to Firefly's Fireflies. I can send a swarm of fireflies into your team that I can explode at will. Taskmaster has very limited imagination which is why he is a joke. Commando is a movie about a guy going against other humans with weapons more primitive than we have now at no point does he face off against magic, aliens, or technology so advanced that it makes all of his tech look like children's toys. He won't even understand what he is facing much less be of any value here.

what? exploding firefly swarms? just use a flamethrower

@diredrill said:

Again, you chose poorly when it comes to Demona and you should not be rewarded for that. Had I chosen a Mermaid and we were in a desert should my Mermaid be hydrated magically? Nope, you made the decision, you suffer the consequences.

You chose the Joker, who's entire power set comes from DC having to advance the plot, and you don't seem to mind jacking his institutional powers

@diredrill said:

The Goggles are not part of your standard gear nor do you know what you will be up against while they are gathering gear so since you did not think to add it initially, they don't get it now. Also as this is during the day, the Joker can keep the sun behind him and blind your devices. Thanks for conceding the point though it makes my job all the easier.

I conceeded no points to get to this, but you were arguing them anyways, and a human has a very different heat signature than the sun

also, first of all, those things are all clearly in my gear, second of all, prep works in character, so I can think "this is how the character would react" and even if its retroactive, it still works for prep, because these people are acting on their own

@diredrill said:

My team is too well thought out and too well equipped to be even slowed down by your team. He kills them all in the first minute of battle.

your sounding really reasonable right now

#31 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1:

You are suggesting that Deathstroke wouldn't absolutely slaughter your team? Good luck with that. No wonder you think that your weak team was a good choice.

The rules for PIS are essentially, if something happens once for the sake of plot it is PIS. If it happens twice it is not likely PIS. If it happens thrice, then it is not PIS. The Joker has fooled Zatanna and Batman, all of the Robins, and of course every person he has ever talked into doing something for him. He has even fooled you into thinking he is a joke. He is that talented, a fictional character just made a chump of you.

Shilo did not allow the Joker any equipment to use. He had nothing on him. The Joker had set his plan to escape in motion months before being incarcerated and simply put it in motion.

See where it says "Cough Cough Ahem" just above and to the left of that speech bubble you see part of the reporter holding the microphone. I am sorry that you have poor observation skills because that was exactly what I pointed to. I can do a Microsoft Paint Mockup if you still can't find it.

You of course realize that the swarm doesn't fly like a swarm, it envelops. They fly all around and come from literally every angle possible and they are smart. Given that in a world that saw the Eiffel Tower eaten by Nanomites, the guards of this top secret prison were completely baffled by the Fireflies until they exploded.

I chose the Joker, one of the most dangerous people on DC Earth. He is so terrifying that the SUPERvillains in DC tell Joker Stories instead of Scary Stories. He is so much a problem that when Alexander Luthor was building his Secret Society, he purposely avoided the Joker because he knew he would cause problems. The Joker is the only man to have a formal declaration of war filed against him. The Joker is the only villain that Batman sees fit to warn his people about after going through training. You know Cassandra Cain, the girl who is so fast that people think she is metahuman? Batman told her to runaway from the Joker and tell him about it. The Joker is the only man who warrants the full attention of the ever watchful eye of the Oracle. The Joker is the best choice for the plan I had in mind. Again, PIS only occurs if it happens one or two times. If it happens multiple times over multiple books, then it ceases being PIS and is a consistent feat. But feel free to keep thinking he is a joke, because that is exactly what the Fictional Character wants you to think. You don't get to change the time of day because you chose poorly.

You still did not state that in your initial prep nor is it something that any of them use on a normal basis. Gear is set before the match for a reason, standard gear is standard gear. Show me instances of these people using this gear standardly. I want to see no less than 3 instances of them using this. They have no idea what they are facing until after their gear gathering prep so there is no reason for them to gather such materials.

I say we go to voting now because you are clearly not going to present any valid points.

#32 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1:

You are suggesting that Deathstroke wouldn't absolutely slaughter your team? Good luck with that. No wonder you think that your weak team was a good choice.

dude, do you even know who any of those people are?

@betatesthighlander1:

The rules for PIS are essentially, if something happens once for the sake of plot it is PIS. If it happens twice it is not likely PIS. If it happens thrice, then it is not PIS. The Joker has fooled Zatanna and Batman, all of the Robins, and of course every person he has ever talked into doing something for him. He has even fooled you into thinking he is a joke. He is that talented, a fictional character just made a chump of you

..,.now yopur just throwing out insults

your not even arguing anymore, your just saying things with absolutely no evidence

no, the Joker is a fictional character with very limited talents, and you are the one he has fooled

@betatesthighlander1:

See where it says "Cough Cough Ahem" just above and to the left of that speech bubble you see part of the reporter holding the microphone. I am sorry that you have poor observation skills because that was exactly what I pointed to. I can do a Microsoft Paint Mockup if you still can't find it.

\

yeah, there's no evidence she wasn't already turning, your not using scans very well at all

You of course realize that the swarm doesn't fly like a swarm, it envelops. They fly all around and come from literally every angle possible and they are smart. Given that in a world that saw the Eiffel Tower eaten by Nanomites, the guards of this top secret prison were completely baffled by the Fireflies until they exploded.

that seems above limitations is they can destroy the eifeel tower (they would have to move over twenty tons)

I chose the Joker, one of the most dangerous people on DC Earth. He is so terrifying that the SUPERvillains in DC tell Joker Stories instead of Scary Stories. He is so much a problem that when Alexander Luthor was building his Secret Society, he purposely avoided the Joker because he knew he would cause problems. The Joker is the only man to have a formal declaration of war filed against him. The Joker is the only villain that Batman sees fit to warn his people about after going through training. You know Cassandra Cain, the girl who is so fast that people think she is metahuman? Batman told her to runaway from the Joker and tell him about it. The Joker is the only man who warrants the full attention of the ever watchful eye of the Oracle. The Joker is the best choice for the plan I had in mind. Again, PIS only occurs if it happens one or two times. If it happens multiple times over multiple books, then it ceases being PIS and is a consistent feat. But feel free to keep thinking he is a joke, because that is exactly what the Fictional Character wants you to think. You don't get to change the time of day because you chose poorly.

this means people are scared of him, but none of those are actually feats

You still did not state that in your initial prep nor is it something that any of them use on a normal basis. Gear is set before the match for a reason, standard gear is standard gear. Show me instances of these people using this gear standardly. I want to see no less than 3 instances of them using this. They have no idea what they are facing until after their gear gathering prep so there is no reason for them to gather such materials.

I think they have initial knowledge in their universe

and I did mention this in my initial prep

anyways, John Matrix is a Commando, so I think he uses Heat-vision goggles

I say we go to voting now because you are clearly not going to present any valid points.

if your really that scared of me out-arguing you that you need to have everyone else see your argument before I even post any feats, that's your prerogative,

I'm just warning you, you've been really unreasonable this whole time, so people probably won't agree with your side

seriously, message @thatguywithheadphones and tell him you want to start voting early if your really that scared of this debate

#33 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

Your team is barely street level. Deathstroke eats street levelers for breakfast. He has fought Batman, Robin, and Nightwing simultaneously and won. He has defeated the Justice League with prep. Deathstroke kills your entire team in a couple moments and goes about his day. Your team is fairly weak.

The Joker has been fooling people for years. You probably think he is crazy, right? Guess what, he isn't. He is super sane.

You won't believe any evidence I post will you. Good to know that you are just being obstinate.

The Nanomites could destroy the Eiffel Tower not the Fireflies. They are two different things but they both exist in the same world. These guards are guarding the people who are responsible for the Nanomite attack and they are completely baffled by these Fireflies. Have you not seen the GI Joe Movies?

This is how prep works according to OP: Your characters will have 8 hour in their own universes to gather or build objects they would normally use in a battle situation.Then they all will be teleportated to the Gantz room where they will come together, receive the basic knowledge of their opponents,and come up with a plan for 4 hours.Then The will be teleported to the designated battle arena.

They don't receive knowledge on the enemy team until after they meet up in the Gantz Room. Are you even trying anymore?

If John Matrix uses heat vision goggles then by all means you have a showing of him doing this? Heck, in the entire Commando movie he doesn't use a single detection device. Good try though.

You know that when you edit your posts, it says that the post has been edited, right? Are you trying to be sneaky here and suggest things that did not happen. Wow that is low. You can't win on your own merits so you try and pull a fast one? You should be DQed for being so disingenuous.

It is not fear the makes me want to go to voting, it is frustration. I have asked for your post a single point and you have not done so in 2 days. I grow weary of fools errands.

@thatguywithheadphones, we are ready for voting.

#34 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: again, why aren't you even messaging me, are you really that afraid of me responding?

@diredrill said:

Your team is barely street level. Deathstroke eats street levelers for breakfast. He has fought Batman, Robin, and Nightwing simultaneously and won. He has defeated the Justice League with prep. Deathstroke kills your entire team in a couple moments and goes about his day. Your team is fairly weak.

yeah, we really don't need to debate this right now

but as good a time as any for feats

to specify for that last one, he threw a spear across a hill with enough strength and accuracy that it cut a guy's head off and impaled the three guys behind him

above that he can be seen chopping threw at least 15 Guy like they were nothing, punching out a horse, and lifting a boulder larger than his own body

please. tell me how Taskmaster is a joke

@diredrill said:

The Joker has been fooling people for years. You probably think he is crazy, right? Guess what, he isn't. He is super sane.

OK, it's good to know that your entire argument depends on Joker being sane

good to know

@diredrill said:

This is how prep works according to OP: Your characters will have 8 hour in their own universes to gather or build objects they would normally use in a battle situation.Then they all will be teleportated to the Gantz room where they will come together, receive the basic knowledge of their opponents,and come up with a plan for 4 hours.Then The will be teleported to the designated battle arena.

dud, Matrix is a commando and Demona and Taskmaster both have huge arsenals, they have no idea where their going, or if their fighting at night, so I think they'd know to bring night-vision goggles

also

notice ho Taskmaster doesn't need to see an attack to block it?

this guy shouldn't have trouble just because the enemy is invisible, he doesn't even need night vision goggles

don't think that counts?

he fought Elektra with his eyes closed

@diredrill said:

They don't receive knowledge on the enemy team until after they meet up in the Gantz Room. Are you even trying anymore?

yeah, and at that point they'll be able to strategize, using the various things that they brought in

@diredrill said:

If John Matrix uses heat vision goggles then by all means you have a showing of him doing this? Heck, in the entire Commando movie he doesn't use a single detection device. Good try though.

so your argument is that people who are considered the very best soldier in the united states have absolutely no idea how to use heat vision goggles?

bravo my friend

@diredrill said:

You know that when you edit your posts, it says that the post has been edited, right? Are you trying to be sneaky here and suggest things that did not happen. Wow that is low. You can't win on your own merits so you try and pull a fast one? You should be DQed for being so disingenuous.

I was editing things as they came up, so there would be no question from the beginning

@diredrill said:

It is not fear the makes me want to go to voting, it is frustration. I have asked for your post a single point and you have not done so in 2 days. I grow weary of fools errands.

your posting none of your stuiff either, just mrandom images and pretending they justify what you say

#35 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill:

as for The Joker, he does get his bottom handed to him by various street levelers, like Two-Face

other stuff...

Isaac would kick jokers ass, especially with a plasma cutter and contact beam

your whole whole plan revolves around joker killing everyone else off by surprise and that joker is not insane. JOKER IS INSANE and he would not be able to kill anyone else in the groups after killing the first off, epsecially considering who all of thse people are

as for the talisman,

Ox is useful here, but Taskmaster has taken on tougher

Rooster will allow Joker to fly slowly, making him an easy target

Snake is useless, these guys will have defenses against that kind of thing, Commandos use heat-vision goggles, this is well-known fact; even excluding that, I have already shown that Taskmaster is fine fighting blind, it's not gonna help

Pig will be a bit of an advantage, but will still offer little practical use (Taskmaster could block that kind of things, the beams would give away his location, and the fact that they come from eyes makes them impossible to aim)

Horse will help him heal, but that's kind of moot when you get hit by an M202A1

Dragon isn't all that impressive, it's really no better than a gun

Tiger is useless

Sheep will put his physical body to sleep, causing him to be completely ineffective in combat, all my team has to do is find the body and they will easily win

#36 Edited by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't use the reply button often because I don't care.

That is all well and good but Norman Osborne considers him to be a joke and Norman Osborne was running Marvel Earth at one point. He himself is too scared to even get into the big leagues which is why he has been training people. Most of Marvel Earth considers him to be a joke.

The Joker is Super Sane. Damien Wayne also seems to believe he isn't crazy. Same things with pre-crazy Harley. You really know nothing about him do you? Don't get me wrong the Joker Venom in his veins certainly makes him seem crazy but he is Super Sane. My argument does not rely on his mental state at all, just the Joker being the Joker. He backstabs all of his people.

How many times do I have to explain that Blind Fighting =/= Giant Invisible Sword that cuts through anything heading at you with superhuman strength? Blind Fighting only helps in close range fights not long range fights. Show me him blocking a sniper rifle and we'll talk.

Commando came out in 1985, the first goggle mounted system for thermal imaging came out in 1992. He can't use heat vision goggles because they do not exist in his universe. One down.

If Demona and Taskmaster have them then you should be able to show them to me. Show me the heat vision goggles you are suggesting.

You gave them all flamethrowers too despite none of them having ever used a flamethrower. I would like to see something showing Taskmaster or Demona using a flamethrower. Since we are adding things that our characters have never used, then I may as well get out Captain Cold's cold gun and simply one shot your entire team while protected by my impenetrable cold field. Thanks for providing me the open door.

You have dishonestly used editing to make it appear as though you started the match with more resources than was agreed upon.

Isaac isn't kicking anyone's ass. He is a laughably slow combatant. At the beginning of Dead Space 2, he sees a guy getting turned into a necromorph right in front of him and waits until the guy fully transforms to try and run away and you think this guy is going to beat the Joker? My plan relies on the Joker being the Joker.

Firefly, Isaac, and Jade will be distracted just like Batman and Robin and Nightwing and Red Robin and Zatanna and you. Are you saying that all of those people are better detectives than Batman? I don't think so.

You think a rocket launcher is a good idea? You know that he can grab it out of the air with the Rooster, right? He also gets a durability boost with the Ox which when combined with Isaac's Armor and the Horse should provide him more that enough protection against any bullets or explosives or spears thrown at him.

Your appraisal of the talismans is also pretty funny. He doesn't have to use the ones that aren't useful like Sheep or Tiger.

Also, let's say you get these goggles that you can't get. Your team doesn't know that. They are expecting a team of people to come at them not one guy. None of your guys have much in the way knowledge about the Joker as he is disguised as Oberon Sexton. In your own OP, you used Oberon Sexton's page which leads you the dead author that the Joker replaced. Only one member of my team is capable of earth bound flight so why would all of your people be looking up with goggles on? Also, remember that the city is filled with people so they will be of no use if my team approaches from the ground.

You already agreed to go to voting so all of this is academic at this point.

#37 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: again, why do you not reply to me? it makes it difficult to know when you have responded

@diredrill said:

I don't use the reply button often because I don't care.

oh, you don't care....that would explain why your bothering to argue.....

@diredrill said:

That is all well and good but Norman Osborne considers him to be a joke and Norman Osborne was running Marvel Earth at one point. He himself is too scared to even get into the big leagues which is why he has been training people. Most of Marvel Earth considers him to be a joke.

...what?

that is about the fartrhest thing froma feat I have ever heard

you haven't even provided evidence of what other people think, and, even if you did, that still wouldn't be a valid argument

you impress me @diredrill

@diredrill said:

The Joker is Super Sane. Damien Wayne also seems to believe he isn't crazy. Same things with pre-crazy Harley. You really know nothing about him do you? Don't get me wrong the Joker Venom in his veins certainly makes him seem crazy but he is Super Sane. My argument does not rely on his mental state at all, just the Joker being the Joker. He backstabs all of his people.

the scan you gave me was the opinion of one person, and a person who wasn't even sure

I showed a scan of someone entering Joker's mind and commenting on how crazy it was, and than driving him sane, and the sane version was clearly a different guy

and yeah, he might try to backstab, but it's not going to help him

@diredrill said:

How many times do I have to explain that Blind Fighting =/= Giant Invisible Sword that cuts through anything heading at you with superhuman strength? Blind Fighting only helps in close range fights not long range fights. Show me him blocking a sniper rifle and we'll talk.

even once would be good (you've said nothing of the like this entire time)

...uhh, let me check for a little while (this really doesn't make any sense considering that Joker will be asleep) actually, no; you were the one who decided it was a problem, your perogitive to find range-limits for his blind fighting

anyways, I've given you proof of concept and you automatically changed what your argument was, show me that his blind fighting wasn't long-range

@diredrill said:

Commando came out in 1985, the first goggle mounted system for thermal imaging came out in 1992. He can't use heat vision goggles because they do not exist in his universe. One down.

source?

@diredrill said:

If Demona and Taskmaster have them then you should be able to show them to me. Show me the heat vision goggles you are suggesting.

are you gonna say that their entire huge arsenals don't include heat vision goggles?

or they couldn't just go to a military surplus-store an buy heat vision goggles?

@diredrill said:

You gave them all flamethrowers too despite none of them having ever used a flamethrower. I would like to see something showing Taskmaster or Demona using a flamethrower. Since we are adding things that our characters have never used, then I may as well get out Captain Cold's cold gun and simply one shot your entire team while protected by my impenetrable cold field. Thanks for providing me the open door.

you can buy a flamethrower at a military surplus tore

you can't buy one of KC's guns there

plus, how would Joker no how to use those effectively?

seems just as likely he'd blow himself up

also, how are they gonna find my team in a crowded city?

realistically, the local law would destroy the bugs with Firebending to stop them from wrecking the city

@diredrill said:

You have dishonestly used editing to make it appear as though you started the match with more resources than was agreed upon.

I don't think I really lied about anything

@diredrill said:

Isaac isn't kicking anyone's ass. He is a laughably slow combatant. At the beginning of Dead Space 2, he sees a guy getting turned into a necromorph right in front of him and waits until the guy fully transforms to try and run away and you think this guy is going to beat the Joker? My plan relies on the Joker being the Joker.

your just trying to cover your previous mistakes at this point, show me a video fo how slow he was

@diredrill said:

Firefly, Isaac, and Jade will be distracted just like Batman and Robin and Nightwing and Red Robin and Zatanna and you. Are you saying that all of those people are better detectives than Batman? I don't think so.

if Batman canl;t figure out who Joker is, but you still haven;n't provided any evidence of that ever happening

anyways, the Joker isn't that tough in a fight most of the time, your depending on The Joker being your preferred Joker

@diredrill said:

You think a rocket launcher is a good idea? You know that he can grab it out of the air with the Rooster, right? He also gets a durability boost with the Ox which when combined with Isaac's Armor and the Horse should provide him more that enough protection against any bullets or explosives or spears thrown at him.

grabbing it would require super-speed, which he doesn't have (really Taskmaster could just headshot him)

Ox doesn't provide any visible durability boost

and I think that my team could figure a way around the armor

@diredrill said:

Your appraisal of the talismans is also pretty funny. He doesn't have to use the ones that aren't useful like Sheep or Tiger.

yeah, but he's still going to pick it up, and since he'll fall asleep when he does that, and he's already killed eevryone, he's gonna be pretty screwed

again, your ignoring a lot of stuff

@diredrill said:

Also, let's say you get these goggles that you can't get. Your team doesn't know that. They are expecting a team of people to come at them not one guy. None of your guys have much in the way knowledge about the Joker as he is disguised as Oberon Sexton. In your own OP, you used Oberon Sexton's page which leads you the dead author that the Joker replaced. Only one member of my team is capable of earth bound flight so why would all of your people be looking up with goggles on? Also, remember that the city is filled with people so they will be of no use if my team approaches from the ground.

basic information on the other team, meaning that my team is going to get information on the Joker, not his alternate identity (as in, they will say a psychopath is disguised as an author)

and they will know that at least one can fly and turn invisible, so they'll make sure to looma t the heavens

as for the crowded city, I decided my team is going to disguise as Fire Nation citizens, so Joker is going to be unable to ind them...actually, no, he's going to be asleep because he picked up the Sheep talisman

@diredrill said:

You already agreed to go to voting so all of this is academic at this point.

the Op hasn't responded to that

and no one has voted yet....

#38 Posted by DireDrill (2429 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't matter once you agreed to go to voting, voting begins.

#39 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

I am so ready

#41 Posted by mightyrearranger (1410 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker's such a touchy character to debate about. I'm thinking it's best for this battle to only analyze feats from his time as O.S., if you specified that iteration of him. The Salvation Run feats, in particular, should probably be voided. No character was written well during that arc (Cold, Mirror Master, Psimon, Ragdoll, etc...). That being said, points for creativity at least, and he may be able to pull it off. I'll vote when I switch off this tablet to a pc.

#42 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6838 posts) - - Show Bio

This seems more like a bashing game then an actual debate. Courtesy should always be given to others...

That being said I'm going to give my vote to @betatesthighlander1

#43 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#44 Edited by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6838 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: My comment was not necessarily targeted at you. I don't like calling people out. But from what I read, there were obvious signs of ill temperament.

#45 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#46 Posted by mightyrearranger (1410 posts) - - Show Bio

I've looked through the scans in this thread and I haven't found any evidence that points to Joker Gas killing it's target in specifically 3 seconds or less.

Based on that and all the Salvation Run scans (nothing personal, the poor character-writing in that series just irks me to no end, haha), I'm voting for @betatesthighlander1

2 creative teams and a great debate though! Loved the O.S. Joker idea in theory.

#47 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#48 Posted by mightyrearranger (1410 posts) - - Show Bio

@mightyrearranger: where were the Salvation Run scans?

and...

...linked by @diredrill a ways up the page. Those are awesome feats for the Joker if one also chooses to believe that Psimon would lose to a rock-wielding Joker, The Rogues would be left on a distant planet with all their tech and not be able to simply teleport into the Mirror Realm, or Ragdoll would ever use the word "dude" in a sentence, haha.

It's a cool series and worth reading for any fan of the DC villains, but the writing is all over the place imo.

#49 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio
#50 Posted by mightyrearranger (1410 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: Haha, yeah, I voted for your team. I still think Isaac can get his helmet up or someone on DireDrill's team can mortally wound the Joker when he tries gassing them all. I don't believe a mass-effect release of the venom will work as quickly as a concentrated hit from his spray-flower does, iirc.