#1 Edited by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules-

Fight takes place ^^here^^ ( Minus Spider-Man obviously :P)

  • Unpopulated area
  • If you opponent doesn't show anytime, and you make at least 1 post than the win is yours.
  • You get 2 hours of prep to prep against the opposing team. You get basic knowledge on the other team. Like for example lets say Thor. You would know that Thor has weather manipulation, super strength, and can fly. That's your basic knowledge you get on him. You wouldn't know stuff like Thor being able to teleport, absorb energy, or control the earth. Don't make them bring anything to the battle if they wouldn't be able to get it in 2 hours. Like for example saying Hank Pym can make a next Ultron in 2 hours is incorrect.
  • Win by death, KO, or BFR

Teams

-BeatBoxs1

Vs

  • Leader - Prometheus (CFJ)
  • Powerhouse - Captain Atom
  • Powerhouse - Obsidian
  • Brian - Tony Stark (Bleeding edge)
  • Misc - Kyle Rayner
  • Brute - Doomsday
  • Telepath - Despero

@calebhara

When your ready

#2 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Looks good, i am probably going to ask you to start, i have been pressed for time as of late.

#3 Posted by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

OK here goes.

As I recall the set up for this round before the picture disappeared ( and @thundergodswrath can correct me if I'm wrong) the image of where it takes place was NYC.

prep

To start with basic knowledge my team is going to know that two of our enemies are tech dependent. So with that in mind Holt, Danny ( Blue Devil) and Dox will all work on enhancing Mr T's T masks so that my team has one for every member effectively making everyone on my team undetectable to both IM and Prometheus' various technology scanners. The T masks will be slightly reconfigured so that all my team will have protection form technological mind altering devices. Due to the fact that this is a trick Dox has used with his enhanced charisma program he will allow for both tech guys on the opposing team also doing this. Dox will also put together or source his TP shielding devices for each member of the team.

Since to do most of what i said in round 1 would have burnt out almost everything Arion has his energy reserves will be almost depleted. At that low level it's highly doubtful he would even have sufficient energy to get anything from sun dipping so he's going to have to find another source of energy. During the prep time I'll say he opens a portal to the darkworlds while he still has the energy to do so and seeks out some small remnant of his fathers citadel that wasn't destroyed in his battle with his brother. This won't be much but it will be enough to allow him to then do a solar charge. I'd say that due to the time needed to get that spark he won't have enough to "fill" his gem and would only be at moderate levels of light energy. As the battle begins his last act of prep is a simple spell of invisibility/ concealment for all my team members.

This will mean that I entire the battle with all my team undetectable by all of yours. You won't be able to see my team members, TP sense them due to shields or sense them with sensor devices.

#4 Posted by New_World_Order (12361 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Edited by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

I also considered having Fate travel the lines of tangent ( his mode of Teleporting) to Dox's lab to retrieve Dox's energy drain spike ( the one I sued last battle) as a potential means of dealing with Captain Atom. Honestly though I have my doubts it would be as effective as it was there and in scans I've shown since IMO Atom is above Pulsar Stargrave in energy manip but quitea bit. At the very least it might hinder him somewhat.

Battle.

In addition to entering battle completely undetectable Holt will have Brainwave create brain images of the team and also use his TP to project fake thought patterns from other areas diverting the attention of your team and preventing the perceived "need" for the likes of Kyle to scan with his ring to find my team. You may know we have the ability of invisibility ( or with basic knowledge only suspect at least) but if you can see my team and other perceptions like Despero's TP confirm their presence in that direction you wont be looking elsewhere.

This allows me to focus my opening attack on removing some of your team from the battle to focus more intently on others. Doomsday and Stark will be BFR'd from the battle field before you know what has happened. Fate will grab DD unseen and simply travel with him over the lines of tangent to some nether world and return, while Arion opens a vortex to the darkworlds and drops Stark through it. Stark may be able to work out a way of returning from another point in space but I doubt from another dimension.

While this is happening Brainwave will be telepathically planing the seeds of distrust with in the very different moral make up of your team. Telepathically he'd be prompting Obsidian, Atom and Rayner to suspect the morally ambiguous Promethius and Despero of a double cross. Trying to make them think that it was actually their team mates who have made the other team mates dissapear ( after all both are capable of it, and they can see the enemy is not near their team).

This means the odds are now 7 to 5 and three of your five may be thinking of fighting the remaining two. Your team dynamic is going to work against you and I have the perfect means to play that. First I have Brainwave who while his TP defense isn't as good as Despero his TP assault is definitely as good if not greater. He is after all above Martian Manhunter in TP assault though no where up to him in shielding ( proven in my last battle by the fact that his TP assault has achieved things that MM has failed at like scanning Black Adam etc, but he literally has 1000's of minds in his at a time because he can't block out the vast amount of mental energy he can perceive - the reason he went temporarily insane). Second I have Dox who is the ultimate spin doctor, who's entire history is about plating character strengths and weaknesses against each other to make beings act in the way he wants them to and to fall into the line he has set out for them. He's made who universes toe a line he's created and made entire enemy civilizations and organizations ( like the GLC) act in the manner he wanted them to to achieve an end. Him manipulating five guy's who have a natural reason for mistrust wont even be a struggle.

The rest of my team at this point hold back for a few seconds waiting to see if a struggle does in fact break out between your team members. If this doesn't they help things a long by making it look like your two bad guy's are actually attacking them. Being invisible this shouldn't be hard simply making an attack on one of your hero team members from the direction of one of your villains that looks like one of their attacks all with the seeds of discord already planted.

This makes the odds 9 to 3 in my favor. We help your two bad guy's finish off the three good guys and then it's 7 to 2.

#6 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

In addition to entering battle completely undetectable Holt will have Brainwave create brain images of the team and also use his TP to project fake thought patterns from other areas diverting the attention of your team and preventing the perceived "need" for the likes of Kyle to scan with his ring to find my team. You may know we have the ability of invisibility ( or with basic knowledge only suspect at least) but if you can see my team and other perceptions like Despero's TP confirm their presence in that direction you wont be looking elsewhere.

I see this entire situation as being highly unlikely. This is based off of the simple fact that Despero's TP easily matches that of Brainwave Jr. He can telepathically shield my entire team, it is very unlikely that Brainwave would be able to over come Despero's own TP as he is immesley powerful.

This allows me to focus my opening attack on removing some of your team from the battle to focus more intently on others. Doomsday and Stark will be BFR'd from the battle field before you know what has happened. Fate will grab DD unseen and simply travel with him over the lines of tangent to some nether world and return, while Arion opens a vortex to the darkworlds and drops Stark through it. Stark may be able to work out a way of returning from another point in space but I doubt from another dimension.

I have an answer for that. While Fate begins his travel towards my team in order to BFR two of my non-powerhouses. Obsidian BFR's your entire team to the ShadowLands.

He can easily BFR your entire team by pulling them through portals straight to the Shadow lands. Instant BFR. That leaves all of my team, against... Fate.

While this is happening Brainwave will be telepathically planing the seeds of distrust with in the very different moral make up of your team. Telepathically he'd be prompting Obsidian, Atom and Rayner to suspect the morally ambiguous Promethius and Despero of a double cross. Trying to make them think that it was actually their team mates who have made the other team mates dissapear ( after all both are capable of it, and they can see the enemy is not near their team).

Once again, Despero is too powerful telepathically to fall against Brainwave. He can protect my entire team. This is an interesting stratedgy, evry creative, but the fact remains that Despero is too powerful for anyone to really be heavily affected by Brainwave Jr.

This means the odds are now 7 to 5 and three of your five may be thinking of fighting the remaining two. Your team dynamic is going to work against you and I have the perfect means to play that. First I have Brainwave who while his TP defense isn't as good as Despero his TP assault is definitely as good if not greater. He is after all above Martian Manhunter in TP assault though no where up to him in shielding ( proven in my last battle by the fact that his TP assault has achieved things that MM has failed at like scanning Black Adam etc, but he literally has 1000's of minds in his at a time because he can't block out the vast amount of mental energy he can perceive - the reason he went temporarily insane).

You can claim that Brainwave Jr. is more powerful than Martian Manhunter all you want. You will, have to use facts, feats and speculations. I have never seen Brainwave Jr. show power capable of probing the Spectre's mind. Or mind raping entire planets. Where as with Despero, i have on-panel confirmation that his power surpasses that of MMH.

THe combined telepathic power of Aquaman, and the Martian Manhunter were needed to simply match Despero's power. When has Brainwave Jr. ever shown power on this level?

Second I have Dox who is the ultimate spin doctor, who's entire history is about plating character strengths and weaknesses against each other to make beings act in the way he wants them to and to fall into the line he has set out for them. He's made who universes toe a line he's created and made entire enemy civilizations and organizations ( like the GLC) act in the manner he wanted them to to achieve an end. Him manipulating five guy's who have a natural reason for mistrust wont even be a struggle.

It will be, considering the fact that these are some of the most powerful minds in the universe. I can't remember Obsidian ever being mentally manipulated, Prometheus has never been tricked. Despero is arguably DC's most powerful telepath, Atom has a highly resistance to manipulation. Even Stark has shown that is takes extreme amounts of manipulation to break him. He is simply too smart.

Here is my strategy. Obsidian BFR's your entire team the moment the the battle begins.

If that somehow does't work. Atom can massacre your team with AOE attacks, which cannot be avoided using simple invisibility. Finally, Obsidian possesses, one of your heaviest hitters, Brainwave Jr. rendering him useless to do anything at all. He can turn his own mental attacks back on your team, or just leave him in the middle of the battle field like a vegetable.

Now your team is vulnerable to telepathic attacks, and they will be dominated mentally by Despero.

Or, Obsidian possesses your heavy hitter, Fate. Now your team has to fight the rest of my team, Obsidian, and your heaviest hitter, Fate.

All of my strategy's revolve on one or two people taking out the majority of your team. If they do not work, my entire team is seemingly more versatile and powerful than your team.

Your move @beatboks1

#7 Posted by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

I see this entire situation as being highly unlikely. This is based off of the simple fact that Despero's TP easily matches that of Brainwave Jr. He can telepathically shield my entire team, it is very unlikely that Brainwave would be able to over come Despero's own TP as he is immesley powerful.

Here in lies your first problem.

1. BW is in offensive TP more powerful than Despero. He has achieved things that MM cannot and has dominated Maxima in the astral plane ( where she is supposed to be dominant) with only an aspect of his persona.

2. His though images actually aren't TP illusions but three dimensional constructs of his mind that are completely realistic in every way. So much so that even Spectre and Dr fate have been fooled by them. Unless your saying that Despero has a greater sense than these two than I'm afraid not a hope in hell of perceiving them any way other than what BW wants you too.

I have an answer for that. While Fate begins his travel towards my team in order to BFR two of my non-powerhouses. Obsidian BFR's your entire team to the ShadowLands.

and how exactly does he make that stick?? only two of my team members aren't capable of dimensional travel under their own power ( Nuklon and Vril). Everyone BFR'd simply returns and picks up Vril and Nuklon on the way.

You can claim that Brainwave Jr. is more powerful than Martian Manhunter all you want. You will, have to use facts, feats and speculations. I have never seen Brainwave Jr. show power capable of probing the Spectre's mind. Or mind raping entire planets. Where as with Despero, i have on-panel confirmation that his power surpasses that of MMH.

Facts and feats not a problem.

In Infinity Inc when his father was dying he gifted his power to Hank Jr. After which Hank TP defeated Ultra Humanite. Utra was amazed and stated he was ALWAYS at least his fathers equal but that his power was now greater. In All Star Squadron ( 19 iiirc) BW Snr easily CONTROLLED the Spectre telepathically and made him leave at the same time as giving the rest of teh JSA TP commands.

In Infiity inc #2 BW JR TP and TK handles the entire JSA including Kent Nelson Fate.

In WW III MM can't breach Black Adam's TP defense courtesy of the protection granted by Mehen. In 52 BW Jnr easily achieves this.

In Extreme Justice Hank easily dominates Maxima while fighting the rest of the team with TP and image projections. this was with only a small aspect of his persona. The only thing that saved them was Maxima psycho analyzing BW and making him defeat himself. Scans can be provided easily when I get home from work.

He can easily BFR your entire team by pulling them through portals straight to the Shadow lands. Instant BFR.

Already dealt with

Once again, Despero is too powerful telepathically to fall against Brainwave. He can protect my entire team. This is an interesting stratedgy, evry creative, but the fact remains that Despero is too powerful for anyone to really be heavily affected by Brainwave Jr.

UNless you can prove he is stronger than Spectre and Dr Fate just incorrect.

THe combined telepathic power of Aquaman, and the Martian Manhunter were needed to simply match Despero's power. When has Brainwave Jr. ever shown power on this level?

oh how about when he mind wiped the ENTIRE JSA which includes several who could take these two alone, probed every life on the planet in millenium ( which att MM could not do)

It will be, considering the fact that these are some of the most powerful minds in the universe. I can't remember Obsidian ever being mentally manipulated

He was mentally manipulated by the starheart and BW has controlled Alan with it. Also Vril has already done this to Despero, Brainiac, Starro and several others above your so called strongest minds. Failed attempt.

If that somehow does't work. Atom can massacre your team with AOE attacks, which cannot be avoided using simple invisibility.

How about intangability Arion can make my entire team intangable, or time manipulation so you just plain miss, Blue Devil can play that card.

Now your team is vulnerable to telepathic attacks, and they will be dominated mentally by Despero.

No TP protection came from Vril's devices that have already worked against Despero, Captain Comet, Telepath and may more.

All of my strategy's revolve on one or two people taking out the majority of your team. If they do not work, my entire team is seemingly more versatile and powerful than your team.

Apparently not

Your move

@calebhara: Apparently not because nothing here worked. Back to the drawing board.

#8 Posted by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

oh and while you talk about all your strategies revolvin around 1 team member consider this. One member of my team has soloed a team almost identicle to yours. Brainwave Jr single handedly had Extreme Justice on the ropes. that team includes Captain Atom ( one of yours), Booster gold ( reasonable swap in power at least for IM), Maxima ( fair swap for despero has every like power), Blue Beetle ( could step in for promethius though little short of the mark), Amazingman ( considering he single handedly defeated over master not bad alone), as well as firestorm, Plastique and Wonder Twins.

I could ( if he went mad again) have him fight your whole team with 6 to spare.

Also consider you have no way to take down Fate. with only basic knowledge you wont know jow to KO him which is his only real means of being taken out.

#9 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

1. BW is in offensive TP more powerful than Despero. He has achieved things that MM cannot and has dominated Maxima in the astral plane ( where she is supposed to be dominant) with only an aspect of his persona.

Martian Manhunter has achieved things similar to this. He has probed the mind's of nigh-omnipotent beings. Here he puts a telepathic hallucination in the mind of Joseph Stinton. He was nigh-omnipotent and could create reality with a thought.

2. His though images actually aren't TP illusions but three dimensional constructs of his mind that are completely realistic in every way. So much so that even Spectre and Dr fate have been fooled by them. Unless your saying that Despero has a greater sense than these two than I'm afraid not a hope in hell of perceiving them any way other than what BW wants you too.

You think that BW is the only person to achieve feats like this? The Martian Manhunter (someone you claim BW is more powerful than) Has entered the mind of the Spectre and forced him onto the Astral plane. I have on-panel confirmation that Despero is significantly more powerful than MMH. So i still don't see why Despero can't shield my entire team.

and how exactly does he make that stick?? only two of my team members aren't capable of dimensional travel under their own power ( Nuklon and Vril). Everyone BFR'd simply returns and picks up Vril and Nuklon on the way.

You don't understand the concept of the Shadowlands. Once you are inside, you are trapped within your own mind. You are being mentally tortured, because every single nightmare that you have turns into a reality. Besides Fate and Brainwave, who has the mental power capable of resisting this? these are the only two i could see getting out.

In Infinity Inc when his father was dying he gifted his power to Hank Jr. After which Hank TP defeated Ultra Humanite. Utra was amazed and stated he was ALWAYS at least his fathers equal but that his power was now greater. In All Star Squadron ( 19 iiirc) BW Snr easily CONTROLLED the Spectre telepathically and made him leave at the same time as giving the rest of teh JSA TP commands.

Cool, Martian Manhunter, broke through Mageddon's telepathic defences. What could Maggedon do telepathically? He forced an entire planet of old gods to kill each other. One old god could reality warp everyone on earth giving them superpowers. He did this while light years away, and yet, MMH broke his defences.

Keep in mind that the Spectre isn't as uber-powerful as most people tend to make him out to be. In the scans above, Joseph Stinton was given nigh-omnipotent power by 6th dimensional beings. A single 5th dimensional Imp was able to reality warp the Spectre.

In WW III MM can't breach Black Adam's TP defense courtesy of the protection granted by Mehen. In 52 BW Jnr easily achieves this.

Despero is significantly more powerful than the Martian Manhunter.

oh how about when he mind wiped the ENTIRE JSA which includes several who could take these two alone, probed every life on the planet in millenium ( which att MM could not do)

Says who? He was able to keep the minds of an entire martian race stranded on a living plane. Not only that, but he did it subconsciously. A single Martian could break into the minds of the entire JLA (except martian manhunter of course)

I still don't see a significant difference between Despero and Brainwave's telepathic abilities.

So, i have two planet busters, a telepath that seemingly rivals yours, two prep masters and Doomsday, someone that is nearly impossible to kill.

But still, Obsidian Can posses your entire team and force them to kill each other. My team can sit back and watch. Or, he can take control of Brainwave and Vril, and Despero dominates your team. Or he can posses your heaviest hitters, and force your own teams powers back on yourselves.

You can't run and hide from Obsidian, he can engulf the entire planet. Does your team have an answer to being possessed?

#11 Posted by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

Martian Manhunter has achieved things similar to this. He has probed the mind's of nigh-omnipotent beings. Here he puts a telepathic hallucination in the mind of Joseph Stinton. He was nigh-omnipotent and could create reality with a thought.

And Yet MM can't TP scan Black Adam shown in canon and Brainwave can- also shown in canon. Under normal Circumstances in a TP battle they would be evenly matched and MM would likely take a slight majority. This is because BW doesn't have the TP resistance that MM has. he literally cannot block minds out. BW always has the minds of everyone for a few hundred mile around him running through his. It's why he went mad and turned evil for a while. Fortunately i brought Vril Dox to the party as well who has TP shields that he has made that have protected him from every telepath he has ever met including Despero who he used against Starro.

You think that BW is the only person to achieve feats like this? The Martian Manhunter (someone you claim BW is more powerful than) Has entered the mind of the Spectre and forced him onto the Astral plane. I have on-panel confirmation that Despero is significantly more powerful than MMH. So i still don't see why Despero can't shield my entire team.

Actually yes because he is. No other character I'm aware of from either DC or Marvel can create solid three dimensional constructs from just their thoughts. The feats you made this comment to aren't telepathic in nature, they are his ability to manifest his thoughts as solid actual things. The exact same thing that Green Lanterns achieve with a power ring and an energy source. Using these constructs he fought Extreme Justice and had them on the ropes. Neither MM nor Despero can or have made their thoughts solid

You don't understand the concept of the Shadowlands. Once you are inside, you are trapped within your own mind. You are being mentally tortured, because every single nightmare that you have turns into a reality. Besides Fate and Brainwave, who has the mental power capable of resisting this? these are the only two i could see getting out.

Ha ha, I don't understand the concept of the shadow lands. Dude, I'm a JSA, Inf Inc Alan Scot and YES Obsidian FANBOY. I'm often referred to on this forum as the most knowledgeable member about the JSA. He's only in my top 10 favorite comic characters. Not only do i know him i can list his every weakness and every example of it because I have all his appearances. In his Debut in All Star Squadron he and five other Infinitors were TP possessed and completely controlled by Ultra Humanite ( you know theone I said BW Jr has defeated). This mind you is the same Ultra who has telepathically subjegated and controlled at the same time Martian manhunter, Gorilla Grodd, Hector Hammond and a few others. I think this lays to sleep the whole WHo's teh powerful TPer once and for all. Also in the pages of JSA BW has telepathically controlled 5 god's at once in south America ( once he regained his sanity)

In addition to being controlled by Ultra Todd was also controlled by BW himslef in about issue 21 or so of Inf Inc. He was controlled by the starheart in the last JLA/JSA cross over and BW has controlled Alan with the starheart. Also Todd has been badly hurt by Light under the right circumstances. Atom ( Al Pratt) used a lamp to depower him early on, and a rainbow character in Inf Inc also harmed him.

Finally on the shadow lands. I have Arion on my team. Arion at peak is a mystic who is the match of Dr Fate. At his peak he has soloed Phantom Stranger with the Help of Etrigan and Wonder Woman. He has also defeated Celestial beings. Arion also BTW is a powerful TPer ( well above Aquaman I can assure you) also has TK as well. Now the thing is He is the son of two Atlantean God's. His Mother is Dark Majestra. She was before Arion killed her the master of the Dark worlds of which the shadow lands are but one. Arion defeated her in her own dimension with her own power because by birthright it is also his. So you see if Obsidian did take Arion to the Shadowlands it would be Arion who would be in charge of what's happening not Obsidian.

Cool, Martian Manhunter, broke through Mageddon's telepathic defences. What could Maggedon do telepathically? He forced an entire planet of old gods to kill each other. One old god could reality warp everyone on earth giving them superpowers. He did this while light years away, and yet, MMH broke his defences.

And Ultra has telepathically controlled beings from another dimension, across time, and has Defeated MM and several others on his league at once and BW beat him- so what?? Feat for Feat I can match or better everything you can for MM and Despero actually has no feats above MM.

Says who? He was able to keep the minds of an entire martian race stranded on a living plane. Not only that, but he did it subconsciously. A single Martian could break into the minds of the entire JLA (except martian manhunter of course)

UMMM MM did in the issue. ATT in the post your were replying to stood for At The Time. ATT MM couldn't do it.

I still don't see a significant difference between Despero and Brainwave's telepathic abilities.

For one thing BW's mental abilities don't stop at TP and TK. He can create solid three dimensional things from his thoughts with nothing more than will power. Plus unfortunately you only brought one TPer to the party and I brought two.

So, i have two planet busters, a telepath that seemingly rivals yours, two prep masters and Doomsday, someone that is nearly impossible to kill.

Arion has destroyed star busters so planet wont even be a challenge. Your telepath doesn't really rival mine but even if he did I have two and he wont match both. Plus his TP for offense is useless because Dox's devices have already shielded him from Despero's TP. I also have two prep masters and one of them has outsmarted better prep masters than yours. Vrill while only being a 10th level Genius ( which BTW is higher than any human has ever been) has defeated not one, not two but Three 12 level genius's at their own game. As For Doomsday Fate can do all he can and more. Fate is immortal, he can regenerate from anything. he doesn't need to eat, sleep or Drink and can literally fight forever. He is immune to all magic and can see through illusion. His knife and his darts can cut through anything and obey his mental command plus never miss anything he intends them to hit. Plus his arm is living chaos that when unleashed can fight hundreds of things at once. He used it to fight all the denizens of a netherworld at once. Add in Blue Devil with a trident that gives him all the powers of hell, time manipulation, dimensional travel and much more, Nuklon who has been able to get the batter in physical battles with Black Adam and Martian manhunter because of his combined Super Strength, size changing, molecular density control and mass control.

But still, Obsidian Can posses your entire team and force them to kill each other. My team can sit back and watch. Or, he can take control of Brainwave and Vril, and Despero dominates your team. Or he can posses your heaviest hitters, and force your own teams powers back on yourselves.

Ahh NO he can't the reasons are several.

  1. Vrill has defences against mental domination. These defenses as well as working agianst Despero etc have also prevented Eclipso ( who is a far better shadow soul possessor than Todd) from doing that too him in Eclipso the Darkness within.
  2. Arion is as i said the son of two god's. One of them is the mistress of higher realms of Shadow. The other is a god of light ( Obsidian's weakness)
  3. Blue devil is a full demon his soul isn't open for possession because it's always partly in hell.
  4. Holt has worked through and faced his demons after Todd last did that. the result was the last time it was tried it failed.

You can't run and hide from Obsidian, he can engulf the entire planet. Does your team have an answer to being possessed?

Why would I need to run.

This is what Light can do to Obsidian ( I could have used a dozen others as well). Arion = powerful light manipulator.

#12 Posted by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara:

Examples of the power of BW Jnr

Here Brainwave Snr telepathically commands Spectre to leave at the same time as telepathically placing a command in all the JSA present including Dr fate and even Thunder bolt doesn't protect Johnny Thunder.
Here Ultra shows that he and BW Snr are TP equals. He defeats BW Snr only because he threatened his son and distracted him.
Here the Dieing BW Snr gifts his power to his son. After which we clearly see that Jnr is now Well above Ultra.
Here we have several of DC's most powerful TPers complely subjugated by Ultra Humanite in JSA. The guy who beat all these TPers was defeated in TO battle by BW Jnr

Here we have Arion

Moments after being BFR'd returns with a being from a dimension that his opponent controlled to use it against him.
Calls on the light from every star in the heavens. This is a feat he WONT be able to do here because he could only do this because his father moved a star closer to earth to amp his power. He will however be able to manipulate light around him as long as he doesn't expend TOO much power ( his ability to do so is dependent on his power level whihc due to what I had him do during round one wont be at an all time high. He will still be able to harm Obsdian who's weakness is light. A lot more than Silver Scarab could or a lamp grabbed by Atom.

Here he destroys his Mother Dark Majestra who is mistress of the darkworlds ( of which the Shadow lands are but a low level of ). The idea that Obsidian who is weak to light will stop Arion who is the son of a god of light and a god of Darkness in the shadow lands is just not going to happen. Arion has defeated far greater shadow beings than Obsidian ( as much as I love the character), he is purely out classed.
In an issue of WW Arion cassually deals with Phantom Stranger, Wonder Woman and Etrigan when not fully in control due to spells of enchantment and artifacts that Morgane Le Fey had under her control.

For the record. I AM NOT claiming any of these high end feats. In this battles as much as it might be against his character Arion has been instructed to by Holt and Dox ONLY use as much energy as he requires to achieve what he is ordered to do. Only enough energy to harm Obsidian etc.

Arion does have a tendency to go all out and expend every bit of energy he has to achieve a goal. He is usually however the only one that people can rely on to save the day and he has a team of powerhouses here to back him up. I can't afford to expend all his energy in this battle need something left for the next rounds ( only a few of his energy sources left)

Nuklon

The fact that he has knocked Black Adam around more than once, beaten Martian Manhunter with his molecular manipulation etc makes him no joke. What he lacks in his meager 70 Tonne strength he makes up for in his ability to increase of decrease his mass ( make himself lighter to throw a punch and a lot heavier when it hits - in one of the scans it showed BA sensed him altering his mass to prepare to strike) and to alter his density making him intangible or super dense and invulnerable.

Blue Devil

The first few scans are of him beating John Stewart courtesy of the Trident's time manipulation ability. He was possessed at the time by a demon, but this was before his deal with Neron making him a part demon rather than merely demon cursed and he has become a full blood since then, so possession won't be an avenue to pursue again. Other scans show Etrigan Stating that his trident ( the one that he mentally commands and can summon from anywhere to appear in his hand) is so powerful that with it he ( Etrigan) could usurp the rule of Hell. BD himself states in another that it's so powerful he hasn't fully mastered it out of fear for what it can do. Another is when he defeated Nebrios a demon / hell lord who is master of his own realm. That of course was because Nebrios' presence on Earth meant that a gateway to the netherworlds ( his realm) was open and that is the source of the Trident's power. Others are just of him taking on the likes of Shockwave and Metallo ( who at the time were enemies of Superman). That was only with the strength, Durability, agility and speed he had back then. Around 30 to 40 tonne IIRC and durability of a sherman tank and around 60MPH speed. All this was amped with his deal with Neron and again when his court case in hell made him full blood demon. prior to Flashpoint he was around 80 tonne mark ( enough to go toe to toe and at least handle Etrigan). Also when I picked this I wasn't aware there was a Nu52 version so it was pre 52 that I picked.

Add to that Two genius' one of Whom Dox has beaten some of the best minds in the universe, and defeated Galactic Empires and made them cower to him. His devices have defeated energy manipulators on a stellar level, Shielded him from TPers on the level ( and in fact including) the one on your team, stopped beings with the power of Phasing from doing so, stopped shape shifters from changing shape. Plus he even dicked around with Lobo's DNA and removed his best power ( his duplication form any drop of blood- every drop of blood Lobo used to spill made a complete extra Lobo). Plus he's developed and used Subliminal programming to control and subdue entire galaxies and races.

Your " two planet busters, a telepath that seemingly rivals yours, two prep masters and Doomsday" Quite frankly just don't impress me that much

#13 Edited by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: You take this man. I normally don't like debating cosmic battles, I entered this tourney to see if i could do it. Apparently i can't. I'll stick to street level characters lmfao.

So yeah, i forfeit, thanks for the good debate. Your knowledge on DC powerhouses amazes me tbh.

#14 Edited by beatboks1 (6960 posts) - - Show Bio

@calebhara: That's a shame, I thought you debated fairly well. But I know what you mean. I'm the opposite and struggle immensely in Street level debates because there are only four to six really good ones i can debate for.

@thundergodswrath Apparently I win this one.

#15 Posted by New_World_Order (12361 posts) - - Show Bio