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#1 Edited by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules

  • BFR is allowed
  • Each team has 2 hours of prep
  • Win by death, KO, or BFR
  • Morals are off
  • Fight takes place here on top of the floating island of Manhattan, and can go anywhere after that. One team starts on 1 side of Manhattan, and the other all the way on the other side. They reach here after there done using there prep time.
  • Also everyone make their own battles.

Backflip

  1. Leader - Reed Richards
  2. Powerhouse - Cyclops (Phoenix Force)
  3. Powerhouse - Morg
  4. Brain - Captain Britain (w/ Excalibur)
  5. Misc - Quasar
  6. Brute - Orion w/ Motherbox/Astro Harness
  7. Telepath - Shaman X-Man

Vs

Diredrill

  1. Leader - Veranke
  2. Powerhouse - Ethan Edwards
  3. Powerhouse - Kl'rt the Super Skrull
  4. Brain - Criti Noll
  5. Misc. - Crusader (Skrull)
  6. Brute -Titannus
  7. Magic/Telepathy - Skrulluminati (Has all the powers of the Illuminati) impersonating Black Bolt

#2 Posted by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Edited by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip said:

@thundergodswrath What does prep consist of? Like, do we get dossiers etc?

Yes. You already have basic knowledge on your enemies, and now you have 2 hours to arm yourself a little, and prepare for the fight.

#4 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Is the island populated?

Having read Beatboks' thread, TGW approved only generally known information about our foes. Veranke, Criti Noll, and Skulluminati are all impersonating other people so perfectly that no one was able to identify them including an Elder God Empowered Scarlet Witch with the aid of Professor X. Instead of knowing that my team is a bunch of Skrulls, your team thinks they are fighting Spider Woman, Hank Pym, and Black Bolt not Veranke, Criti Noll, and Skrulluminati. In addition, no one knew that Crusader was in possession of the Cosmic Ring so that is not something that would be included in a dossier. My team has access to all of Reed Richards' knowledge, Shield, and the Illuminati as they had infiltrated every major organization on Marvel Earth. Your team starts with very little information on what my team is capable of whereas I know nearly everything about your team. Only really Orion is a relative unknown. You may suggest that given that my team is populated by at least 3 known Skrulls and 3 people who were Skrull Imposters that Reed Richards will deduce that my team is all Skrulls but Titannus, Kl'rt, and Ethan Edwards were unaffiliated with the Skrulls during Secret Invasion and Crusader and Kl'rt even fought against them.

A cursory look at your team reveals that you have no real magic users on your team. Captain Britain has some magic in his powers but he is not a real caster having generally relied upon others to do his magic. I have access to all of Dr. Strange's magic to the point that Skrulluminati was able to completely counter Dr. Strange so I definitely have an advantage in the magic department especially since your team won't be expecting it. My team is also far more versatile with a wide range of abilities that allow for a variety of strategies not available to your team.

I won't get to prep or other things until after my initial question is answered.

#5 Edited by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

So let me start with a bit of background on my guys for the voters playing the game at home.

  • Queen Veranke - This former exiled princess came back from the brink and led the Skrulls on one of the most ambitious invasion plans in comics. She is master tactician backed up by the powers of Spider-Woman and her own deviousness. In addition to those powers, she also has some form of exotic energy manipulation from some unnamed superhuman.
  • Ethan Edwards - This genetically engineered Super Skrull landed on earth with amnesia and was meant to be a sleeper agent until he went native. His powers are essentially a lower level form of Superman's powers but he can also heal people.
  • Kl'rt the Super Skrull - This Skrull was the original Super Skrull made to fight the Fantastic Four. He has all of their powers with none of the morality that keeps him from using them to deadly effect.
  • Criti Noll - Not the first Skrull to take the job but she is the only one to finish it. Criti possesses all of Hank Pym's intellect and his powers. In addition to that, he also has Quicksilver's speed, Vision's density shifting, and Black Panther's senses.
  • Crusader - This Skrull was sent to Earth as a spy but much like most deep cover Skrulls eventually came to enjoy Earth. This enjoyment was what eventually led to him gaining the Cosmic Ring that allows him to warp reality in a 15 foot radius around him.
  • Titannus - This Skrull was sent to Earth to lure the Avengers into a trap. He has immense strength and healing allowing him to solo most of the Defenders that were assembled to fight him including both Hulk and She-Hulk.
  • Skrulluminati - This unnamed Skrull was sent to Earth to infiltrate the Illuminati and the Inhumans. He was gifted with the powers of all 6 members of the Illuminati that allowed him to counter each of them. I will either refer to him as Skulluminati or Skrullbolt.

Now as to my prep.

First things first, Veranke kills Crusader and takes his ring. He is a traitor and is nowhere near capable enough to wield its power. This puts me down a member but I will rectify that soon enough. Veranke will use the ring to speed up time within the bubble and teleport to several locations. First is the Baxter Building, to keep your team from using it, they will send it to the Negative Zone like they did Secret Invasion. The Time bubble will give my team the advantage of getting their first. Second, they visit Attilan whereby they get it online and moving with a few words from Skrulluminati. Kl'rt then flies it to New York while my team moves on to the next objective. They go to the X-Mansion, Criti then shrinks down Cerebra and puts it in his pocket. They also steal the Danger Cave's Holographic Generator. They then head to Avenger's tower where they open up Iron Man's vault and Skrulluminati uses his Extremis to take over all of the Armors and teleport them to Attilan. Criti also steals any adamantium, vibranium, or anti-metal that Tony uses in the fabrication of his armors. While in the area, they also drop by Damage Control and pick up all the Adamantium they recovered after WWH. They then teleport to Atlantis and grab Neptune's Trident. Next they teleport to the Sanctum Sanctorum to pick up some of Strange's toys. They pick up the Jar of Zom, the Book of Vishanti, the Darkhold Tome, the scrolls of Watoomb, and the Orb of Agamotto and head on their way.

They then return to Attilan. Criti uses Pym Particles to enlarge Veranke and the Cosmic Ring enlarging the area of effect to about a 300 foot radius. Veranke creates duplicates of Criti Noll and they set about building multiple Ragnaroks using the materials recovered earlier. Meanwhile Titannus begins leveling the parts of Attilan that are not needed. Ethan Edwards is sent to fetch the Atmo-Gun from Attilan's Chamber of Devices. One of the Criti's activates it deploying a powerful shield around Attilan. Some of the Critis also retrofit the armors that my team will be wearing. The Hulkbuster is retrofitted for Titannus since he can't shapeshift to fit inside. The Stealth is given to Ethan Edwards. Veranke, Criti, and Kl'rt take whatever the most modern suits available are. Skrulluminati will be busy combining the Cerebra Technology with the Orb of Agamotto while he reads the book of Vishanti and the Scrolls of Watoomb. Skrulluminati is a sorcerer at least as proficient as Dr. Strange and has the combined intellect of Reed and Tony. Ethan will also deploy multiple Seals of Vishanti around Attilan to keep Excalibur from being problematic. Skrulluminati has Professor X level Telepathy so when he is in Cerebra he will be supremely powerful especially when enhanced with the various Artifacts. In addition to the Atmo-Gun Shield, Skrulluminati will deploy whatever magic spells of concealment and protection he can to protect Attilan and its agents. Kl'rt is then enlarged to giant size and uses his powers to cloak the entire city as it enters the New York Airspace. Titannus and Ethan are also enlarged and given their own "wings" of Ragnaroks that have also been enlarged. Criti outfits each of the Ragnaroks with Xerogen Mist rockets. Ethan is given the Jar of Zom. Multiple large scale energy cannons will be created that channel the destructive power of Skrulluminati and placed around the edges of Attilan. Iron Man armors will also patrol Attilan as well.

Attilan should just arrive in the New York airpsace as my prep ends.

Now as to my plan.

Ethan heads straight for Morg at high speed and uses the Jar of Zom to infect him with the Demon. One of the Ragnaroks will then engage him to force him into losing himself in Zom. One of the Ragnaroks will fly directly at Reed and Captain Britain and deploy their Xerogen Mist Rockets. Xerogen Mist makes you as dumb as an Alpha Primitive so they'll be reduced to less than useless. X-man and Cyclops' telepathy will not be able to overcome a Cerebra enhanced, magically empowered Skrulluminati's telepathy so he won't be mind raping anyone. Titannus then engages Orion while his wing of Ragnaroks take on Quasar. After Zom has fully engulfed Morg, my team retreats to the protection of Attilan. Zom is a powerful threat and he will demand what is left of your entire team to take on. My team need only watch since without your two big brains, your team loses your ability to react effectively.

All in all, my team's incredible subterfuge and sabotage skills are just too much for your team to deal with or predict. Also, you lack of a real magic user drastically hamstrings your teams ability to counter my team's immense magical power.

#7 Edited by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio
@diredrill said:

Is the island populated?

Having read Beatboks' thread, TGW approved only generally known information about our foes. Veranke, Criti Noll, and Skulluminati are all impersonating other people so perfectly that no one was able to identify them including an Elder God Empowered Scarlet Witch with the aid of Professor X. Instead of knowing that my team is a bunch of Skrulls, your team thinks they are fighting Spider Woman, Hank Pym, and Black Bolt not Veranke, Criti Noll, and Skrulluminati. In addition, no one knew that Crusader was in possession of the Cosmic Ring so that is not something that would be included in a dossier. My team has access to all of Reed Richards' knowledge, Shield, and the Illuminati as they had infiltrated every major organization on Marvel Earth. Your team starts with very little information on what my team is capable of whereas I know nearly everything about your team. Only really Orion is a relative unknown. You may suggest that given that my team is populated by at least 3 known Skrulls and 3 people who were Skrull Imposters that Reed Richards will deduce that my team is all Skrulls but Titannus, Kl'rt, and Ethan Edwards were unaffiliated with the Skrulls during Secret Invasion and Crusader and Kl'rt even fought against them.

I won't get to prep or other things until after my initial question is answered.

Actually, I'd say basic knowledge would include a general fact file stating that they are in fact, Skrulls. Secondly, you're wrong about a number of things.

1) Reed Richards knew a lot about the Cosmic Ring. He was the one that processed Crusader through the Initiative

2) Reed is aware that you have a team of Skrulls, he's not going to just let you access his technology, he's learnt since Secret Invasion.

3) Reed knows that Ethan Edwards was a Skrull sympathizer as he was outed during his tenor with the Revengers. However in addition, Reed already has a device that will reveal the fact that your team is made up of Skrulls, he used it in Secret Invasion.

@diredrill said:

A cursory look at your team reveals that you have no real magic users on your team. Captain Britain has some magic in his powers but he is not a real caster having generally relied upon others to do his magic. I have access to all of Dr. Strange's magic to the point that Skrulluminati was able to completely counter Dr. Strange so I definitely have an advantage in the magic department especially since your team won't be expecting it. My team is also far more versatile with a wide range of abilities that allow for a variety of strategies not available to your team.

Yes you're right I don't have a Caster. But Captain Britain is pretty much the perfect foil to Magic. ESPECIALLY when armed with Excalibur. Hell, he defeated the WarMage. The Skrull equivalent to the Sorcerer Supreme who possessed all of the Magic of the Otherworld, the Magical Nexus of All realities. Brian has also demonstrated an abilities to interact with Magic directly, grabbing and handling it to negate it's powers.

@diredrill said:

Now as to my prep.

First things first, Veranke kills Crusader and takes his ring. He is a traitor and is nowhere near capable enough to wield its power. This puts me down a member but I will rectify that soon enough. Veranke will use the ring to speed up time within the bubble and teleport to several locations. First is the Baxter Building, to keep your team from using it, they will send it to the Negative Zone like they did Secret Invasion. The Time bubble will give my team the advantage of getting their first. Second, they visit Attilan whereby they get it online and moving with a few words from Skrulluminati. Kl'rt then flies it to New York while my team moves on to the next objective. They go to the X-Mansion, Criti then shrinks down Cerebra and puts it in his pocket. They also steal the Danger Cave's Holographic Generator. They then head to Avenger's tower where they open up Iron Man's vault and Skrulluminati uses his Extremis to take over all of the Armors and teleport them to Attilan. Criti also steals any adamantium, vibranium, or anti-metal that Tony uses in the fabrication of his armors. While in the area, they also drop by Damage Control and pick up all the Adamantium they recovered after WWH. They then teleport to Atlantis and grab Neptune's Trident. Next they teleport to the Sanctum Sanctorum to pick up some of Strange's toys. They pick up the Jar of Zom, the Book of Vishanti, the Darkhold Tome, the scrolls of Watoomb, and the Orb of Agamotto and head on their way.

They then return to Attilan. Criti uses Pym Particles to enlarge Veranke and the Cosmic Ring enlarging the area of effect to about a 300 foot radius. Veranke creates duplicates of Criti Noll and they set about building multiple Ragnaroks using the materials recovered earlier. Meanwhile Titannus begins leveling the parts of Attilan that are not needed. Ethan Edwards is sent to fetch the Atmo-Gun from Attilan's Chamber of Devices. One of the Criti's activates it deploying a powerful shield around Attilan. Some of the Critis also retrofit the armors that my team will be wearing. The Hulkbuster is retrofitted for Titannus since he can't shapeshift to fit inside. The Stealth is given to Ethan Edwards. Veranke, Criti, and Kl'rt take whatever the most modern suits available are. Skrulluminati will be busy combining the Cerebra Technology with the Orb of Agamotto while he reads the book of Vishanti and the Scrolls of Watoomb. Skrulluminati is a sorcerer at least as proficient as Dr. Strange and has the combined intellect of Reed and Tony. Ethan will also deploy multiple Seals of Vishanti around Attilan to keep Excalibur from being problematic. Skrulluminati has Professor X level Telepathy so when he is in Cerebra he will be supremely powerful especially when enhanced with the various Artifacts. In addition to the Atmo-Gun Shield, Skrulluminati will deploy whatever magic spells of concealment and protection he can to protect Attilan and its agents. Kl'rt is then enlarged to giant size and uses his powers to cloak the entire city as it enters the New York Airspace. Titannus and Ethan are also enlarged and given their own "wings" of Ragnaroks that have also been enlarged. Criti outfits each of the Ragnaroks with Xerogen Mist rockets. Ethan is given the Jar of Zom. Multiple large scale energy cannons will be created that channel the destructive power of Skrulluminati and placed around the edges of Attilan. Iron Man armors will also patrol Attilan as well.

Attilan should just arrive in the New York airpsace as my prep ends.

I'd argue that you only have 2 hours and therefore your generic prep that you've created to pretty much waltz your through any encounter is unlikely to happen due to such time restraints. In addition, let's clarify some things

1) Would Real Black Bolt just let Skrullbolt waltz his city into Manhatten?

2) Nice idea with the Baxter Building, but it's ultimately useless as Quasar can just teleport it straight back out again.

3) Any proof that enlarging the cosmic ring increases it's distance?

4) Any proof that you can create Duplicates with the Ring? Last time I checked it was only very minor reality warping

5) Also, you intend to get to the Baxter Building first? It's Reed's home. He kinda lives there... so surely he'll be there as soon as you arrive?

6) How many Ragnorak's do you want to build again? Because again, this is just stupid. You're NEVER. EVER. going to break into 8 of the most secure bases on the PLANET and then transport Attilan to Earth, AND THEN set up all the defenses + Build an Army of Robot Thor clones that took Reed and Tony months to perfect. IT just isn't happening. I don't care if you have Quicksilver speed, you're not fast enough.

@thundergodswrath Please come and weigh in on this prep... it's borderline ridiculous. Actually know, it's fully ridiculous.

#8 Posted by dondave (36582 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

#9 Edited by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip: You get 2 hours of prep to prep against the opposing team. You get basic knowledge on the other team. Like for example lets say Thor. You would know that Thor has weather manipulation, super strength, and can fly. That's your basic knowledge you get on him. You wouldn't know stuff like Thor being able to teleport, absorb energy, or control the earth. Don't make them bring anything to the battle if they wouldn't be able to get it in 2 hours. Like for example saying Hank Pym can make a next Ultron in 2 hours is incorrect.You get it?

#10 Posted by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: Right, so I'm right in thinking that the majority of Diredrill's prep/plan is therefore null and void? :P

#11 Edited by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

The main reason I asked if there was a population because I wanted to know if anyone was going to get in my way as I build my floating platform of death. There would be no Black Bolt or Inhumans to stop my team from stealing Attilan. There is no one inside to stop me from taking anything. Hank Pym should easily get me past any security in all of the locations.

Part of my prep is using the Cosmic Ring to create a time bubble. The Cosmic Ring is a fragment of the Cosmic Cube. The Cosmic Cube is a source of infinite power, a fragment of infinity is still infinity. The only reason why the Cosmic Cube appears to be able to warp reality on a large scale is because of its size because again part of infinity is infinity. There is no doubt that the Cosmic Ring can create a 30 by 30 time bubble.The first thing that Crusader does after getting the Ring is use it to create multiple Skrull Females who fawn all over him. So long as they can dream it, the Cosmic Ring can do it. So long as it is within the radius, I can create anything I need including the fabrication tech needed to build my Ragnaroks. I already explained that I am using real world resources and not those created by the Ring so they will still exist. My team only really takes 2 hours of real time to complete all of my objectives. There is no rule against using time manipulation to circumvent the 2 hour prep. My team has the capability to do this without issue.

In Battle Threads, your team is gathered in a neutral space that is not their home. What you intend on explaining how you are pulling Orion in from Apokolips? My team has a teleporter, a speedster genius, and a time bubble. My team easily beats your team to the Baxter Building. I have never seen Quasar make a jump into the Negative Zone much less be able to teleport an entire building out of the Negative Zone. Your team loses access to Baxter Building and all its goodies.

I am breaking into 8 facilities that I have intimate knowledge on how to break into them because my team will pretty much be detected as the leader of all of them. Skrulluminati is Professor X, Black Bolt, Namor, Dr. Strange, Iron Man, and Reed Richards combined. I can access every one of these and none of the security systems will have any reason to not give me everything I want. Also, these facilities are broken into about once a week without issue so my team should have no problem doing it. Criti Noll was integral to building Ragnarok, he knows that thing inside and out. With multiple Criti's they should be able to fabricate as many as they need to get the job done.

@thundergodswrath said it was unreasonable for Hank Pym to be able to build Ultron in under 2 hours but he did not say that he couldn't do it with the help of a reality warping fragment of the Cosmic Cube. My team's powers and skills and abilities are designed to work in tandem to achieve more than the sum of its parts. I build all of my teams to function like this.

Let's say that I can't fly in Attilan or get my Ragnaroks. I still can easily obtain the Xerogen, magic crap, and Iron Man Armors. The Ring can be used to create a Cerebra and do all of the work needed to combine it with the magic. Instead of using the Ragnaroks to as my delivery agent Criti will do the job. He can become intangible and move at superhuman speeds so he'll be able to hit both of your brains before they even know whats going on. I can still make good on most of my attack plan without time manipulation but as there was no rules preventing it, I see no reason why I can't use it to accomplish my plan.

#12 Edited by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio
@diredrill said:

The main reason I asked if there was a population because I wanted to know if anyone was going to get in my way as I build my floating platform of death. There would be no Black Bolt or Inhumans to stop my team from stealing Attilan. There is no one inside to stop me from taking anything. Hank Pym should easily get me past any security in all of the locations.

@thundergodswrath can correct me if I'm wrong, but I presumed he meant the battlefield, as in the Floating Manhatten.

@diredrill said:

Part of my prep is using the Cosmic Ring to create a time bubble. The Cosmic Ring is a fragment of the Cosmic Cube. The Cosmic Cube is a source of infinite power, a fragment of infinity is still infinity. The only reason why the Cosmic Cube appears to be able to warp reality on a large scale is because of its size because again part of infinity is infinity. There is no doubt that the Cosmic Ring can create a 30 by 30 time bubble.The first thing that Crusader does after getting the Ring is use it to create multiple Skrull Females who fawn all over him. So long as they can dream it, the Cosmic Ring can do it. So long as it is within the radius, I can create anything I need including the fabrication tech needed to build my Ragnaroks. I already explained that I am using real world resources and not those created by the Ring so they will still exist. My team only really takes 2 hours of real time to complete all of my objectives. There is no rule against using time manipulation to circumvent the 2 hour prep. My team has the capability to do this without issue.

You're getting yourself into very sticky territory here. But regardless

1) Almost the entirety of this post is made on assumptions, rather than actual facts.

2) The issue with the Cosmic Ring is that it is very reliant on space. Until I see proof that size =/= power in the case of the Cosmic Cube, I see know reason why a fragment would equal the sheer might of a Cube. Because for example, the Cosmic Egg was not as large as the 30 Cubes it was compiled from and yet, functioned at a much higher level.

3) Cubes don't have infinite power, that's hyperbole

4) I know I'm a pain, but I'd like to see some display of time manipulation from the Cosmic Ring....

@diredrill said:

What you intend on explaining how you are pulling Orion in from Apokolips? My team has a teleporter, a speedster genius, and a time bubble. My team easily beats your team to the Baxter Building. I have never seen Quasar make a jump into the Negative Zone much less be able to teleport an entire building out of the Negative Zone. Your team loses access to Baxter Building and all its goodies.

The Motherbox? Just for starters. Alternatively X-Man, another Teleporter who can operate between Planck Lengths? Or how about Quasar who can move at Lightspeed? Or again Captain Britain who is faster than Criti Noll (He can move at a minimum, Escape Velocity or Mach 32ish. Quicksilver is like mach 10, max). My team is beating yours to the Baxter Building.

Also, I mixed up Quantum Zone with Negative Zone, my bad. But regardless, even if your team does get there first, X-Man can just teleport to the Negative Zone as he's demonstrated that he can easily shifted between dimensions, and bring Reed with him.

I accept the 'Xerogen, Magic Crap and Iron Man Armors'. That's fair enough. However, you're foolish if you think that Criti is going to be able to tag near enough anyone on my team. We're far to fast and Captain Britain alone could outrace Criti. Take into account Orion/Quasar/X-Man and yeah, your plan shatters around your ears.

Anyway, my turn.

Prep

Right, so I really couldn't have drawn a luckier draw. I'm going up against a Skrull team, and I've got Reed Richards? Damn fortune favours me.

Anyway, so not a lot really happens in my prep. The only noticeable things are Reed Richard's allows the team to access his store cupboards in the Baxter Building collecting whatever resources they'd like. For example, once they're teleported into it by either X-Man/Orion, they take advantage of the Skrull Detectors that were employed in Secret Invasion along with The Stun Ray Gun, the Ultimate Nullifier, a Class 4 Disintergration Ray that he once threatened the Super Skrull with, and also considering he knows that Crusader is on the opposing team, he'll grab that Cosmic Cube Disruptor that he used against Goddess and her Cosmic Cube (Note: Cube is a LOT stronger than the Ring, so yeah).

Reed's Tech ;)

Let's kick it up! (Shameless Digimon reference ;) )

Once the match starts, @diredrill has made his intentions very clear. Luckily for me, they're not too hard to counter. The Xerogen rockets + the Iron Man armours will be taken out almost instantaneously by a combination of Quasar and X-Man. Firstly, X-Man will utilize an EMP to knock them all out of the sky, depowering their boosters/fuses and what not. Secondly, Quasar will then use his large scale energy manipulation to completely drain both them, and in fact actually, everything around them (Including Attilan, the Shields, The Energy Cannons, all with ease. The man has Drained a star from half way across the galaxy, so really, this is no biggie for him.

X-Man EMP. NOTE: This is Pre Shaman X-Man, so much weaker
Quasar absorbing a Star

As Quasar operates at Nano-second reaction levels and X-Man can walk between planck lengths (Effectively time manipulation) this will be over before the match has barely begun.

Speed feats for both X-Man and Quasar

This unhinges key parts of your fight within less than a second.

Next, X-Man/Cyclops/Quasar erect a shield again pretty much instantly to stop Ethan Edwards from getting in. But even if he does manage to get in and strike Morg with the Jar of Zom, Orion will not listen to mercy and just Boom Tube him out of the match.

Cyclops engages SkrullBolt on the Astral Plane, getting back up from X-Man to absolutely telepathically rape the imposter as even with Cerebra, both of them are far beyond the capabilities of Xavier.

Xavier gets mind raped by Cyclops. Cerebra ain't going to change this. (Also actually, Cerebra will have been taken out by the EMP)

Anyway, now safe behind my impregnable dome, and with Ethan Edwards boom tubed out of the match. Reed Richards takes a moment to contemplate the situation. Laughing, he activate the Cosmic Cube disruptor and watches Veranke loses much of her power and as the Reality construct fade away.

Goodbye DireDrill.

Reed is bloodlusted remember?

He affirms that Quasar/Cyclops/X-Man should drop their shields. Brings out the Ultimate Nullifier and well... the rest is history.

#13 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

I presumed that he meant the entire universe we are fighting in.

Both of our posts are made of assumptions, assumptions and speculation are what all tourney battles are based upon. The idea here is to suggest your assumptions are better than the other person's assumptions.

The Cosmic Egg is a different thing entirely from a Cosmic Cube and can be a variety of sizes. For instance when Galactus travels through the end of the universe and into the beginning of the next, he uses a Cosmic Egg of a much large size to do so. Cosmic Egg =/= Cosmic Cube as they serve different purposes. Now as to proof as why a Fragment can equal a full on Cosmic Cube I point you to the Super Adaptoid versus Kubik. The Super Adaptoid at that point had only a Fragment of the Cosmic Cube in his system while Kubik was a sentient Cosmic Cube. Using the Cosmic Cube Fragment, the Super Adaptoid mimics Kubik's power and actually banishes Kubik. This should not be possible if a Fragment was not just as capable as a full on Cube. Why does Power =/= Size have to be proven? I am not changing the power level of the Cosmic Ring, just its area of effect there is also nothing that is keeping me from just using the Cosmic Ring to create a Cosmic Cube in and of itself just like the Super Adaptoid did. Cosmic Ring manipulates reality, time is part of reality so thus it can be manipulated. I have already shown that a Cosmic Cube Fragment is equal to a Cosmic Cube.

If you read that scan, it still requires that you get the Harmonic Disruptor into range before it can be used and your team will never be able to detect Attilan since it is being obscured both by magic, technology, and superhuman powers. You also won't get through the Atmo-Gun field because it generates an exotic energy "negative zone" field that none of your people have experience in manipulating. Negative zone is in quotes because it is not the same negative zone as the one Reed found. If you are to be so fact hungry, show me Quasar or X-man manipulating "Negative Zone" energy. You won't find it because it does not exist which means you'll have to speculate that it will do so based upon other unrelated information. See how ridiculous things get when you require on panel proof of something happening that can't possibly exist because those two things never came into contact with one another.

Again, your team would need to know that there is race to get to the Baxter Building and they won't expect my team to take it out of play. You really think that Reed is going to be able to convince your team that they need to go to the Baxter Building in moments? I don't think so, he is horribly long winded and has poor social skills he'll take at least 5 minutes to tell them he needs to go to his lab to pick up some stuff. My team will be in a time bubble, they can discuss their strategy for days before deploying. Skrulluminati can teleport them right to the Negative Zone portal room and Criti can superspeed activate it and then teleport out. Should your team manage to reach the Baxter Building first it does not matter as they will still send it into the Negative Zone. Reed will have to spend time finding the damaged negative zone portal room in his building. In the meantime, Criti will have smelled Reed and they will have then deployed Titannus to destroy the remaining foundations of the Baxter Building so that when Reed does get it back it falls several stories and his lab is ruined. X-man cannot teleport to the Negative Zone, Reed Richards is the only person to be able to open a portal there. You pretty much have to be using his tech to do it. It actually exists outside of every dimension so X-man will be unable to teleport to it. At best, Reed is left with a shattered building to try and salvage and even his intellect is not enough to make much use out of it.

Mother Box's boom tubes do not have suction to them so Ethan would have to fly into it. Also, no Boom Tube has ever generated enough size to move a roughly skyscraper sized Ethan Edwards. Ethan Edwards will sidestep your forcefield via magical teleportation which you have no real defense. Zom won't be Boom Tubed away since he has Morg's body. If anything all you'll do is piss him off. There is also nothing stopping him from possessing another of your guys before he can be pushed through the Boom Tube. Criti will be both intangible and tiny, none of your guys have the senses to stop him from deploying the Xerogen especially since you created a nice shielded dome trapping your team and the gas. I can just deploy it and let the armors filter out the gas. Thanks for helping me dumb down your entire team, I was just targeting your brains but I'll take everyone else too.

Iron Man gets taken out by EMPs so often right? Like when he is fighting Magneto, I know he just gets downed so easily. Oh wait, he doesn't, his armors are all hardened against EMP since that is something that we do now in the real world so I see no reason why Iron Man would not do so. In addition, Cerebra is currently running on Magic so EMP will be useless. It should also be noted that Cerebra was made to cut through the Magnetic interference that Magneto generates so I doubt an EMP would have much effect. So X-man can deploy his EMP all he wants it will do nothing but shut down Reed's toys. X-man doesn't have super speed, he is using weak time manipulation and since all my guys are being enhanced by Magic, they will easily see right through it like Ares did. Quasar's speed seems to have been amped during that time by drawing on his allies power, power he won't have here. Quasar's energy manipulation is limited to Silver Surfer level so your high end feat is out.

Remember, you aren't just fighting a Cerebra Enhanced Skrulluminati, you are fighting a Cosmic Ring enhanced, magically empowered telepath who is using Cerebra to boost him. Also keep in mind that Criti, Veranke, and Skrulluminati are immune to telepathy to begin with thanks to the specialized form of infiltration so only Ethan, Titannus, and Kl'rt need be protected. Kl'rt is already in the Realty Warping field so he won't be within either of your guys reach so that only really leaves Titannus and Ethan. Skrulluminati is being amped to ridiculous levels by magic, technology and reality warping so he should be able to shield 2 people without much problem especially since they already have enchantments that protect them anyways. You don't want to go to the Astral Plane. Skrulluminati becomes even more powerful in the Astral plane because then his Magic becomes even more potent. He'll be using the Images of Ikonn, the Rings of Raggador, the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, the Winds of Watoomb and any number of magical attacks to subdue your guys.

I need to see proof that the Ultimate Nullifier being used by Reed is the actual Ultimate Nullifier. That seems like little more than a bluff.

#14 Edited by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip said:

@thundergodswrath: Right, so I'm right in thinking that the majority of Diredrill's prep/plan is therefore null and void? :P

I guess, lol.

#15 Edited by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Having conferred with @thundergodswrath I have confirmed that I can use the Cosmic Ring's time bubble to grab everything I listed. So it is up to @backflip to prove that a fragment of the Cosmic Cube cannot alter time despite a Cosmic Fragment being equal to a Cosmic Cube as I have shown in the Super Adaptoid/Kubik confrontation. If the Cosmic Cube can do it, the Cosmic Ring can do it just within a specific radius.

Now let's say that enlarging the ring does not enlarge its radius. That doesn't change anything because instead of changing the area of effect, I just miniaturize my construction. Now my Criti's will be 2 inches tall and be working on proportionally-sized Ragnaroks. After finishing them, Criti will just grow them to full size via Pym Particles so I can make as many as I need to within the standard 30x30 sphere of influence without any issue. So my team of about a couple dozen giant Ragnaroks will certainly keep your team busy. Don't even think about trying to BFR them because they will be protected by various enchantments like all of my other team members.

I noticed that during my prep I picked up 2 items that I neglected to use namely the Danger Caves's Holographic Generator and Neptune's Trident. The Holographic Generator will be enlarged to giant size so that it can project holograms at quite a distance and it will also be enhanced with the Images of Ikonn which will serve to create magically empowered holograms making determining whether or not they are real that much more difficult. The Holograms will be placed both in random places and over my team so as to make them appear to be different people, namely those on your team. The Trident will be used to enhance the forcefield around Attilan and grab any of your guys who get to close in a fist of angry water.

#16 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill @backflip

Voting begins now.

Wait what?

Can you possibly stall this for a few hours, I need to get a rebuttal together but it's really late here in the UK so I need to sleep.

#18 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

@backflip said:

@thundergodswrath said:

@diredrill @backflip

Voting begins now.

Wait what?

Can you possibly stall this for a few hours, I need to get a rebuttal together but it's really late here in the UK so I need to sleep.

okay.

#19 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio
#21 Edited by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (9914 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Backflip~

Edit: I meant to go with Diredrill lol, got the names on the posts mixed up x. x

#22 Posted by oceanmaster21 (7894 posts) - - Show Bio

good match ups but my vote going to Diredrill

#23 Posted by dondave (36582 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote Backflip

#24 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

This was a very interesting match. I think Backflip might have been able to pull it out if he'd made another post or two, but Diredrill is the winner as things stand now.

#25 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP, MORE VOTES !

#26 Posted by beatboks1 (7162 posts) - - Show Bio

Backflip for me, though Diredrill did a great job.

Online
#27 Edited by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

3:2 in favour of Diredrill atm.

#28 Edited by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio
#29 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: would have my vote if he could get some scans or links to debate with.

@backflip: Has my vote for better supporting his points.

#30 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

3 all.

#31 Posted by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: would have my vote if he could get some scans or links to debate with.

@backflip: Has my vote for better supporting his points.

Seconded. My exact thoughts on the debate.

#32 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

4-BackFlip, 3-DireDrill

#33 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Back flip, dire drill made a good case of his team, but had almost no scans to back up his points.

#34 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Abandons a debate and still wins, seems legit.

@cadencev2, @lvenger: Are you saying that my points are completely invalid without scans???? That is ridiculous on the face of it and if you have been voting using that as a criteria at all then your votes really are quite irrelevant. This also highly informs the ridiculous imbalances you had in your Debate Tourney's Store.

#35 Posted by Tatsu666 (159 posts) - - Show Bio

I am voting for Backflip

#36 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: Your knowledge is very good on these matters since I know you. However if I did not know you and simply read the claims without the proof seeing it in some way for myself, I would vote the same.

It comes down to debating on here for me is like a court case. I need to see the evidence, otherwise their is no case.

#37 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

The winner is BackFlip.

#38 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Debate is not like a court case at all. Go read any of the Lincoln-Douglas debates and you will see nothing beyond their words being used. Sure they point to some facts but they bring no documentation, no proof, no evidence of any of their claims and these are the debates by which ALL other forms of debate are judged. If you are using Court Room Justification as reasoning then you are doing it WRONG. Points are what debates are all about, evidence is usually a secondary concern and even then it isn't something that either side needs but serve as something to REINFORCE a point not backup the point. Scans like I said, are USELESS in determining a winner. Anyone using that as a means of determining who is the winner is voting incorrectly. Realistically, if scans are your justification then your vote should not count.

@thundergodswrath Abandons your tourney for 10 days and still wins, seems legit.

#39 Posted by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath:You gave Esquire the win after his opponent abandoned the tournament and had the majority of votes.

#41 Edited by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath:You gave Esquire the win after his opponent abandoned the tournament and had the majority of votes.

You pretty much just answered you're own question.

#42 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: As I said, I determin a winner on more than just the words. I expect productive argument, counter points, easy to read (Iphone post kill my eyes), and scans to back it up or show me the context.

You had 3-4. I feel debate wise all round Backflip did better. That is just how I vote.

#43 Edited by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: My opponent also abandoned the tournament. cfherse did post 1 post and then never posted again 9 days ago. Backflip made his last tourney post 13 days ago. He asked for an extension 10 days ago which he did not use.

@cadencev2: Words are the only thing that matters in a debate everything else is gravy. My arguments weren't productive? What counterpoints did he bring up? He didn't even rebut my last post so he left several of my points with NO counterpoint. Maybe you take the time to read debates on a computer, just because his post has more pretty pictures and less text doesn't mean he should win. Scans are just there to reinforce, they have no bearing on the points presented nor the rebuttals supplied. You are saying that Lincoln and Douglas and all of Academia is wrong about how debates work? It seems to me like you put no effort into picking who wins which is a slap in the face to all debaters.

#44 Posted by jashro44 (20843 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't read the debate but I would say scans aren't required if you provide issue references. That said scans do look better and sometimes visual aids help get your point across better IMO.

#45 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Visual aids are often used debates. I remember in the last presidential debate that Mitt Romney brought out so many visual aids. Oh wait that didn't happen and it never happens in any real debate anywhere. Visual aids are for high school presentations not debate. What are we back in high school now? If this is what we are doing here then everyone is being highly disingenuous calling this a "Debate" Tourney.

Any evidence (this includes scans, issues numbers, and anecdotal evidence) in a debate only serves to reinforce your point against attack but are just added fluff. Fluff should not decide a match, points should.

Let me ask are any of my points false? Are they exaggerations? Are they lies? Did Backflip call me out on any of these falsehoods, exaggerations, or lies?

#46 Edited by Backflip (2265 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: Cheers for the good debate.

I'd also argue I didn't abandon the debate. Furthermore, scans are more than fluff, they're proof. We've discussed this before, but the message hasn't seemed to sink in. Anyway, again, you did fantastically and hopefully we can go up against one another again in the future.

#47 Posted by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: No but your reply would have been strengthened by scans, links or references. You had a lot of good points but you needed to reference some specific feats to land some killer blows against backflip.

#48 Edited by New_World_Order (13050 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: So Abraham Lincoln and all of Academia is wrong about how debates are supposed to be held? Seems legit.

@thundergodswrath: Good to know that you are unbiased.

@backflip: Do you know what Good Faith is? It is a part of all forms of public discourse and is the basis for "Innocent Until Proven Guilty." All points are assumed to true until the opposing side suggests otherwise unless they are so ridiculous that they can't be true. Disproof is a form of counterpoint not a form of point and using it as such goes against the spirit of debating. Again, are you saying that Lincoln is wrong? Because saying scans are anything but what I have suggested is slapping him in the face.

#50 Edited by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill: Will you please stop taking this so seriously? Backflip countered your points, picked apart your prep and provided scans to support his points. I fail to see what your reference has in relation to this debate. Visual aids are quite important in reinforcing the point and if they can't be provided, specific issue references. You need to chill about the outcome mate, this is also a vote based decision and the votes have spoken about the outcome.