Terran Dominion and Systems Alliance vs Covenant Empire and Scrin

team 1-@detrolord@tparks@deadmanwalkin@reikai@doom_phd@boringperson@diredrill@force_echo@mrunsmiley@animephantom@umbranox@citizensentry

team 2- @jwwprod@killerwasp@jmarshmallow@eisenfauste@dottiestmoon@cjdavis103@vortex14@thedailybagel

randoms/wildcards- @wolfrazer@okayalright_44@i_like_swords@penderor@imboredletsdebate@wut@monsterstomp@jestersmiles

@aressword: This is a cool battle :) Though I think I will go with team 1 for now.

Covenant and Scrin take this, they should easily have the numbers and damage output to contest with the Terran dominion. It should be a decent battle.

Dominion. Not sure how the numbers will add up as far as a head count on each side, but unit for unit, the dominioin is going to generally be able to take and deliver more punishment, and should be able to have a higher kill/death ratio then covenant/scrin.

No idea about Scrin man

While my only knowledge about ME is

Team 2 methinks.

Team 2 for a strong win, covenant with all teched up could possibly solo since u took the jobbing aura off.

Can the Scrin bomb their planets with tiberium seed and just wait it out until they all die from tiberium poisoning?

Ooooooooh this gonna be good.

EDIT: My knowledge in this battle is purely ME

I'll have to disagree on that (IMO) Team 1 has more has more numbers & more raw strength.

@detrolord said:

No idea about Scrin man

While my only knowledge about ME is

We don't really know enough about the Scrin to guess their power so this pretty much comes down to Terran Dominion and SA vs Covenant.

@tparks: So long as no one brings up the whole "Hyrdalisk spikes piercing Battlecruiser armor" in Liberty or that godawful scene in Shadows where the Siege Tank was blowing holes in the Battlecruiser.

Hay @wut what's your opinion on this thread?

@jwwprod: Ha! Beat you to it.

@wut said:

@tparks: Wait! My bad, the tank scene was in Uprising not Liberty. (Still, such an awful scene, that said, Uprising was fairly bad overall.)

@jwwprod:

@wut said:

Unlike the Human counterparts team 2 is use to fighting Terran is in an entire different league they are fully mechanize with powersuits. I.e those power suit each marine is place in is nuclear and the armor is ship grade. Their standard weapon is equivalent of turret mounted on a jeep.

Then you add in their special units who are high level psychics.

@aressword: Haven't a clue on teams.

Not so knowledgeable on the Scrin. Hope to learn about them here. However, as I see it currently team 1 wins. You have the "highest" teched races of humanity in multiple races of humanity (from different planets/species of humanity) going against some races of advanced aliens. As we all know, Humans are "special."

As I said, I need more knowledge on what the Scrin can do. However, at the moment all I see is the races of humanity that already beat or greatly challenged their alien enemies supported by other human races that already beat or greatly challenged their alien enemies teaming together to thouroghly wreck their combined alien enemy.

Covenant stands no chance against adaptive foes, especially a human team as you put forward that would learn and adapt together.

Someone tell me what the Scrin could add to the massively disadvantaged Covenant, before I have to teach myself.

@citizensentry: how do they have more fire power?

Have you ever played Mass effect?

On the ground, I think this is fairly even, with the Terran mechanized tech perhaps providing an advantage. However, in space, it seems to me the Covenant absolutely dominate, to the point of soloing all three other powers. I don't think the Terran or the Systems Alliance have any answer for Covenant space superiority or a planet-wide glassing. Judging by how Scrin tech operates in the CNC universe, they should be able to establish respectable air superiority, even if it's not absolute, while their ground game will get the most help out of liquid Tiberium weapons, which are extremely corrosive even to armor. Despite the Covenant ground forces extreme lethality, I think the ME powered weapons, and personal shielding, of the Alliance put them on at least equal footing, unlike the Humans of the Haloverse. When I started writing this I was thinking it would be a massive stomp in Team 2's favor, but now I'm not so sure. I just see the Covenant fleet as the dominant force in this fight.

@citizensentry: have u ever realized how low damage their space is?

Covenant too strong , I will say team two.

@wut: I'm not really sure why a Siege tank shouldn't be able to damage a Battle Cruiser. It is called a SIEGE tank. It's used for siege. If one of the most powerful weapons in the terran army can't damage a battle cruiser's armor, then they would be invincible and only able to be damaged by another battle cruiser. I understand the battle cruisers armor is ridiculous, but the tanks fire 120mm armor piercing shells while in siege mode, made to penetrate neo steel. Siege tanks have huge areas of effect when firing long range to the amount that they are legitimate mountain busters.

Gallery

Assuming that was a Crucio Model Siege Tank in the novel (can't recall offhand), then it would have an even stronger damage payload. (click the pic below in a new window, CV shrinks this one for some reason)

The upgrades it's talking about include enhancements in it's ordinance. (click this one in a new window too)

To keep friendlies in range alive with mountain busting payloads, each shell has been upgraded to smart ammunition that actually can tell what is a friendly, and deliver it's payload accordingly.

Without any friendlies in the line of fire, it can deliver it's entirety of power on a single target like the battle cruiser's hull.

On top of this, while in siege mode it switches from it's plasma cannon, to it's 120mm shock cannon which fires armor piercing Maelstrom rounds.

The primary target (the hull of the battle cruiser), would be receiving a more powerful blast, along with the normal splash damage contained to a smaller area because it's firing at a short distance where the twin cannons would not spread as much. In the gif above, it takes out a colossus in two shots from long range. Colossus are pretty beefy, so it's understandable that a siege tank firing from closer range should do some decent damage to a battle cruiser, specially when it's shields are taken down.

This type of damage is common between two battle cruisers, what made this significant is that the battle cruiser's primary weapons, like the Yamoto canon are positioned in the front, and this damage was coming while the battle cruisers were side by side to each other, like ships would fight in the open sea. It was made a big deal in the novel, because this kind of tactic of a side by side attack in space was unheard of before this time.

@tparks: Because the fact a 120mm cannon can punch through the hull of your large star ships is not good. Like... not good at all. 120 mm cannon is the same as modern tanks. A 120 mm cannon should not be able to breech a warships hulls in a few hits, that is a terrible showing.

It was never stated to be anything other then a normal siege tank. The wink was because I find it to be a hilariously low showing that shouldn't be used in a serious debate unless you want to mess with people.

You're assuming that the 120 mm shell is the exact same shell used today. That number 120mm is just referring to the diameter of the barrel the ammunition is being fired out of, and does not refer to what the ammunition actually is. They are obviously not the same as today's 120mm mortar rounds, if they are able to bring a mountain down.

Even today's 120 mm mortar rounds have been improved since what was used back in the World Wars. Today, they can choose between several different cartridges that have different explosive patterns, shrapnel, flammable, armor piercing, what shape the area of effect is upon explosion, the damage radius, and any combination of all of these. It's crazy not to assume that the Star Craft universe has not come leaps and bounds from what is being used in real life today. Every other weapon and armor system seen in SC that is similar to today's weapons has a huge increase in it's lethality, the same would be true for the siege tank's ammunition.

I don't see this as a low showing at all for a Battle Cruiser, but instead a nice showing of what a Siege Tank is capable of. Siege tanks in Star Craft have one of the most powerful damage outputs out of all the weapons in the entire series. Battlecruisers have some serious armor, but they can be damaged by more then just Yamato cannons, and a Siege Tank should have more then enough power output to do damage to even the most armored units including Battle Cruisers.

@wut: im shocked u haven't done a run down on this lol.

@timanosaurusrex: Technically the dominion is very small, even though they got some better well a lot of better ground stuff than the UNSC they are still very small, and since he said no jobbing covenant are just going to glass, nothing imo in the ME universe can hurt the bigger covenant ships and prolly the ship of the line ships for the covenant. Only the smaller spacecraft would die, but as I've said thats my view. Ground is basically useless, no matter what artillery you got.

Covenant solo

@tparks: That is not the point. If a 120 mm cannon is all that it takes to pierce a hull then that means the amount of energy necessary to do so is also extraordinarily low. There is a limit to how 'awesome' you can make a shell, we know that Siege Tanks aren't throwing out black holes or other weaponry that would truly be impressive or outlandish. If a 120 mm cannon is something you consider to be reasonable then the Terran Battlecruisers are going to get rolfstomped by just about everything here.

Even the Systems Alliance would massacre them as they use kiloton weaponry which far exceeds a 120 mm cannon making it a far a larger threat. A much, much larger threat. If a 120 mm cannon (And we have no reason to believe the shells are packed full of space magic) is punching through your warships hulls, you are doing something wrong. A mortar shell would be worse at punching through armor then a conventional round.

Shepard and his sex appeal solos.

I really think that team 1 can take this.

And also you need to remember that the SA have The Crucible, a weapon that was designed to kill reapers.

@citizensentry: okay, thats 1 ship, but what u also need to realize is that the Covenant have these.

Team 1 might take it, but Covenant outnumber them by a lot. idk about how good the scrin are. But if the SA get the Geth then Legion solos cause no one is cooler than legion

@savageslayer: no one is more cooler? not even... a grunt? XD

@killerwasp forgot about them. Team 2 might as well forfeit. Non can withstand their headbutts.

@savageslayer: XD lol!

@citizensentry: The Crucible will do almost nothing to the Covenant and Scrin. It is specifically targeted against Reapers and Artificial Intelligence. The only thing it could potential hurt is that it would damage the Covenant AIs (They can make more), and potentially hurt the Scrin, but it would also destroy the SA's AIs as well as destroy their Mass Relays.

The fleet you posted was for all of Mass Effect, this is not all of Mass Effect, this is just the SA. The SA doesn't have as many dreadnoughts as the Turians nor the large ship of the Asari.

Asari Dreadnought: (Destiny Ascension)

It is 900 meters long and 3.2kilometers high, and that big hole you see is the main gun, It runs 90% of the ships length.

Geth Dreadnought:

It is 1.25 Kilometres long and is essentially as powerful as the Destiny Ascension, however apart from it's main gun it's secondary priority is to destroy fighters.

Alliance Dreadnought:

The Alliance has two dreadnought classes currently in service, the older Everest class and the newer Kilimanjaro class. The Everest class is an 888-meter dreadnought with a main gun capable of accelerating a 20 kilogram slug to 1.3% the speed of light (4025 km/s) for a kinetic energy yield equivalent to 38 kilotons of TNT. The Kilimanjaro class is armed with 156 broadside mass accelerator cannons, 78 on each side. The broadside guns are each as long as 40% of the ship's width.

Wasn't in use in the final battle so I don't anything about it......(Looks badass though)

Quarian Dreadnought:

Widely known as the weakest looking ship due to it's slim build and petite frame design it packs a BIG punch, it uses Element Zero to fire it's weapons which make miniature singularities which the proceed to tear apart whatever it hits.

Hmmmm.

@citizensentry: it's inly the sa so why woks those other ships matter? Even so what is the damage of them??

Yeah I just re-read the OP. Read the description I put underneath the Alliance Dreadnought.

@citizensentry:

"20 kilogram slug to 1.3% the speed of light (4025 km/s) for a kinetic energy yield equivalent to 38 kilotons of TNT"<-- so thats what the alliance has to offer?!? That is my whole point they don't got the damage to even really hurt the covenant, as I've said prolly only its weaker vassals. One of the Covenant's smallest ships if not THEE smallest ship is this ship right below.

CRS-class light cruiser

300 meters (984.25 feet) 145 meters (475.72 feet)

and it takes more of a beating than that of ur SA capital ship lol. The Macs do waay more damage than that, and those aren't even the bigger guns/bombs the UNSC has used.

There are 78 guns on eachside 156 in total. 38 kilotons x 156 is about 5928 kilotons (almost 6 megatons) so you have 156 guns shooting out 6 megatons worth of nuclear warheads every minute (355680 kilotons) every hour. 335 megatons (the largest bomb we have ever detonated was the tsar bomb that was 50 megatons = 50million tons of TNT)

So that's 335million tonnes of TNT being dropped on the Covenant every hour.

So every hour we would the SA would be dropping 7 Tsar bombs on covenant.

Times that ^ by 7.

EDIT: Then x it by 2 since the SA have 2 Dreadnoughts.

So that's 670million tonnes of TNT being dropped every hour.

Alright lets start off with the Mac cannons first off most UNSC ships have them. They weigh 600tons, are 9.1 meters long, and 65tons of tnt, and can be fired every 2 to 3 seconds, on top of that they also have different mac cannons with this being the smallest for ships. With that in mind Covenant still tank these rounds and if there wasn't a special move involved with this the covenant wouldn't really lose a whole ship due to its shields regening the whole time. On top of that the covenant's pulse lasers are enough to destroy UNSC ships without any problems and u know how many there are?

tons, there are tons of these and you know what makes them great? Is they are so accurate they can even destroy missiles before they even land on their ship. On top of that all covenant ships have these. What also makes this even more of a threat that was again one of the smaller ships of the covenant using that. Can you imagine now their larger cruisers and battleships and how well armed they are? This isn't also counting the more deadlier plasma torps which almost never miss it is due by calcs run by AIs who are way smarter than anyone in the SA dodging them for the UNSC captains at last second movements, and i do mean last second for they are guided by the Covenant in order to hit their target and theres still a chance it just comes back around and hits them, and as I've said these get fired from quite a far distance before the Mass effect or Sc has even a chance to fire their guns. As I've explained before the Covenant start firing from very far range at least from the earth to the moon distance. On top of that you got the Covenant

Energy projector on a large amount of Covenant ships. On top of having special ships that are cloaked who can disarrange any guided missiles or weapons within the battlefield and not affect their own. With that in mind Covenant according to even captain keyes ONLY loses battles when they are vastly out numbered. With that in mind you also assume all these weapons are going to land when the Covenant is known for traps and ambushes even in space and has displayed very good formations, especially elite commanders whom themselves have been ambushed before and still handled the situation decently, not counting they got one of the most decorated commanders leading the fleet Thel and another sharp commander Rtas. With that said the covenant fleet ranges at least in the thousands and only needs 30 ships of all different sizes meaning small ones and big ones alike not just straight up big ones, but can use small ones as well to

Also we forgot the Covenant ships themselves that Seraph-class Starfighter

To which can even hurt UNSC frigates like the pillar of autumn whom was designed to stand up to more of the covenant ships, and that almost all ships carry at least 300+ of these for the smaller ones and tons more for the other fleet. Not counting the countless boarding craft, space banshees, and transports alike. ( u will see some of them look the same, but they serve different purposes. )

Yeah, with that aside We haven't even brought in the scrin whom are suppose to be very good technology like race that is hanging with the rest of these, i mean i know my basic knowledge on them, and that their pretty powerful shown down below is cut scenes for them

but you'd have to ask an expert if they couldn't possibly solo if they didn't have a jobbing aura, which is taken off so stupid stuff found in the books that literally straight up job the Covenant wont be applying here, on top of anything else that happened. Anyway covenant was winning the war and in fact never lost, they both agreed a peace treaty and that is what ended the war. @eisenfauste@wut did i miss anything?

@killerwasp:

IIRC the only reason the Russians didn't give the Tsar Bomb a bigger payload was because they we're afraid of setting the Earth's atmosphere on fire, can you imagine what 335 megatons would do?

@citizensentry: The main gun of the Dreadnought fires that. Not the small guns. The main gun. The Reapers are only in the 140 kt range. By your logic, a single SA dreadnought would pwn a Reaper due to far more guns.