Team Zuko vs Team Azula

@arcus: That's because she wasn't sane but that's not what I meant, I meant she has the advantage over him because she knows him, knows his weakness and knows how to exploit it, I mean according to the creators,that's her special ability, finding an opponent's weakness. Unlaq vs Tenzin could go either way but Zaheer would beat Tonraq. Tonraq hasn't really had any decent showings

@redbird3rdboywonder: she was sane at Boiling Rock and Northern Air Temple (though it could be argued she was slipping slightly she hadn't lost it yet)

@arcus@thatguywithheadphones you do realize that azula and her crew were also sleep deprived as well in their fight? even then, it was a 6 v 1 that she still did pretty well against and was able to escape completely unharmed and managed to completely incapacitate iroh in 1 hit. as for his fight against azula on the airship, yea he did better than he did in the past, but im not wrong. he would have died while azula lived. She was clever enough to blast herself to the wall to hang on while zuko just kept falling. She was able to get herself out of a bad situation alone while he had to be saved. and before you say that he could have blasted himself to the cliff like azula, not only is there no evidence of him being able to do that, but there were several instances where he could have used that ability, like at the boiling rock. zuko had to jump to get to the gondola and he almost missed. seems like a good time to use that ability.

also, when zuko does his final fight against azula, he says that the only reason he can take her is because she is off her game. If it wasnt for that, he would have needed katara's help to take her down.

now, here is how this fight is going to go:

unallaq is fighting tonraq. and we know how that fight goes. unalaaq will win with little damage sustained. at this point, its a 3 v 4. the other 3 pairs are evenly matched enough that there wouldnt be a decisive victor (though i still suspect that mai and azula are winning their fights). unalaaq would help out zhaeer (who objectivly is doing doing the worst out of the group, but wouldnt be losing, seeing how he was able to constantly dodge and evade tenzin. Tenzin will go down with both of them harassing them.

azula and zuko continue fighting, but again, azula would still have the upper hand, with maybe some minor damage sustained. at this point its a 2 v 4 and the other team wouldnt be able to handle them

@knightofzero:

Azula wasn't sleep deprived. Azula only got away unscathed because she ran away, and she cheap-shotted Iroh.

Well considering there aren't any cliffs to be falling off of or jumps to make I'm not sure how relevent that is

@arcus cheap shot or not, it still worked. iroh got owned by azula in this instance. this isnt to say that iroh is weaker than azula (because he isnt). It just shows how strong azula is

as for the cliff thing, all i was trying to say is that azula is still more resourceful than zuko is, giving her an edge.

@knightofzero:

True, but I don't forsee any opportunities for cheap shots here. Downing Iroh in one move is nice, but imo nothing Zuko couldn't do with a cheap shot

Fair enough

Zuko vs. Azula

Tonraq vs. Unalaq

Tenzin vs. Zaheer

Sokka vs. Mai

Pretty much how I see it & I'm sure a lot do too.

So it pretty much comes down to a tired Tenzin having to take on a tired Azula, a semi-tired Unalaq and Mai (who'll soon become a non-factor after defeating Sokka due to the lack of bending powers).

I think Azula & Unalaq carries their team to victory for the majority unless Zaheer fails to stall Tenzin long enough (minority of possibilites).

Z'

@z___:

Why do you think Azula>Zuko and Sokka<Mai?

Bump

I'm completely sure the second team wins this. They all trump their counterparts in bending prowess, fighting skill and sheer brutality.

@silverrings: Sokka and Zuko are debatable imo (in some aspects at least), how exactly does Zaheer trump Tenzin in a fight?

@arcus I don't think it's a stomp at all, i just definitely think each member of team two has what it takes to beat their team one counterparts. They might not fight each other that methodically, of course, but it's easier to debate like that. I think Zaheer proved to be just as skilled at air bending as Tenzin with a lot of added ruthlessness, making him more dangerous. He's also more physically capable, i think, partly because of age perhaps, but he always seemed more agile and faster to me. He did beat Tenzin, albeit with help. Lots of help. Tenzin is by no means a push over, it'd be a hard fight, but i see Zaheer coming out on top.

@silverrings:

P'li beat Tenzin with a cheap shot, all Zaheer did was get beaten up and last until help arrived. He never even landed a hit on Tenzin in their one on one

Azuka and zoku will leave the winner useless, unalaq and tonraq I say unalaq, tenzin will school or put Zaheer on the defensive edge again, Mai will take a majority outta sokka

which team do you think wins overall?

@arcus: am going with team 2 seeing as it comes down to tenzin vs a very tired or otherwise useless azula, unalaq and mai and mai can be a good distraction

Team Azula wins!

I believe that Mike and Bryan tried to make Azula's superiority to Zuko quite evident. Zuko failing to master lightning was a major way they showed it. Then they also had his and Katara's conversation going into the "final battle," in which Zuko essentially claims that the only reason he could take her one on one was because there was something off about her.

Season 3 of Korra showed that Tenzin could take a non-flying Zaheer, but not without some difficulty.

Unaloq typically beats Tonraq, and Sokka and Mai is kind of a wash in my book.

The major advantage to Azula's team is that the enemies have always fought in more unique style when compared to the straight forward tactics of Tarloq and Tenzin.

The only reason that team Zuko wins is because by protecting the avatar, the avatar clearly gets involved in the fight, pushing he odds way in team Zuko's favor. You think Aang or Korra are gonna miss this fight?!

The only reason Zuko felt confident he could beat her was because she was off, but that doesn't mean he thought he would for sure lose if she was sane. It just means he wasn't sure of a victory. From their fights at Boiling Rock and Northern Air Temple they were even, meaning neither one of them could be sure of a victory over the other.

@solidwall211: why do you think team Azula wins?

@arcus: Azula, and Zuko will be stalemate, prolong out battle.

Tonraq willl have a disadvantage vs Unalaq, so he'll be the first guy to loose.

Unalaq will notice Zaheer having a slight disadvantage against Tenzin, so he'll double team Tenzin. Tenzin will then loose this fight.

Mai vs Sokka. This will be a long fight, but Mai will win eventually.

Unalaq, and Zaheer will then crowd Zuko to help Azula. This is when Zuko gets demolished.

Team Azula wins.

@solidwall211:

Tenzin is pretty adept at taking on multiple opponents. He can pretty easily send out air bursts at other fighters as he's beating Zaheer, as shown when he was briefly engaging the Red Lotus team and still managed to get a hit in.

An unexpected air burst could be enough to give Zuko, Sokka, or Tonraq an opening to end their fight early.

Plus Tonraq isn't so far behind his brother that he'll get stomped. He came very, very close to getting his hands on Unalaq, and judging by his brother's expression at that moment we can assume that wouldn't have ended well for the former Red Lotus member.

Team 2 FTW. If going by the most common match-ups here, Azula vs. Zuko might end up stalemating, with a slight edge to Azula. Both were even in the finale but with sane Azula, she would be calm and collected but Zuko can hold his own for a time.

Tonraq vs. Unalaq, Unalaq wins it as he is an Avatar(unless I read it wrong again). It took an Avatar to keep up with Unalaq and no one on Team Zuko is an Avatar.

Tenzin vs. Zaheer, could also go either way. Tenzin did beat Zaheer but that was before Zaheer could fly. While Tenzin is the better airbender, Zaheer can outmaneuver him.

Sokka vs. Mai, officially Mai but I don't think it will matter once this battle ends as they're outclassed once they interfere with the other battles.

If any matchup is allowed, then Unalaq would be able to take on anyone on Team Zuko while the other members can either stall until Unalaq finishes or win on their own. The only real threat on Team Zuko is Tenzin but it will eventually end up being him vs. 3 other powerful benders.

@sokusonic4:

No Dark Avatar, no flight

@arcus: I don't know what is with me and not reading correctly. Again, my apologies. But when you said no Dark Avatar State I thought you meant he could still use 4 elements. Any way, Team Zuko takes it. It all depends on how fast Tenzin can take down Zaheer. Then he helps out Zuko as I see Tonraq and Unalaq evenly matched.

@sokusonic4: he was never able to use 4 elements

@arcus: Unalaq?

@sokusonic4: yeah, he's only got water. No one here has multiple elements

@arcus: When you said no Dark Avatar state, I thought you meant he just can't go into the state but can still use 4 elements like when some threads restrict Avatar state but still have like Aang or Korra using 4 elements.

@sokusonic4: he never had 4 elements in the first place

@sokusonic4:

Unalaq never gained the ability to control all four elements as that isn't tied to Vaatu or Raava. The avatar has all four elements because the ancient lion turtles gave Raava the elements to hold for Wan, and when they fused it became a part of the avatar's spirit. Vaatu was never given all four elements to hold, and so when he fused with Unalaq the new dark avatar only had the element Unalaq already had, which was water.

@metaljimmor: @arcus: Excuse me while I bang my head against a wall repeatedly for my stupidity.

@sokusonic4: haha it's ok

Bump

Agreed

It's worth remembering that Tenzin's been shown to engage multiple opponents at once, nothing's stopping him from attacking Azula or Unalaq or Mai while fighting Zaheer

You're going off of a "feat" where Tenzin engaged multiple benders and ended up losing seconds later. You can't really use that fight to his advantage, especially when Unalaq is arguably more powerful than Ming-Hua, and Azula is at least on the same tier as Ghazan.

Azula isn't carrying squat.

Zuko stalemates her and Tenzin would probably beat her.

@mrunsmiley: I'm not saying he could beat multiple people here, just that he could send some attacks at other people while fighting Zaheer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNVMQNDOCMc

The Tonraq vs Unalaq fight is also more close than what's being suggested. Not an all out stomp by Unalaq.

@soduh2: I think some people might be underestimating Tonraq

@mrunsmiley:

The point of the feat isn't to say he can fight multiple opponents at once here, only that he can tag other fighters while fighting Zaheer without much difficulty. If he can avoid the Red Lotus' combined attacks and still manage to tag some of them then there's no reason to suspect he couldn't take on Zaheer, who he was quite easily overwhelming, and still have time to send out air blasts at someone else to give whoever they are fighting an edge.

Too often people separate these fights and assume all the fighters are paired off and very far a part. It's easier to think about. However you have to consider that some characters have really strong, sweeping attacks and are capable at quickly shifting from one target to another. Tenzin is an airbender, which means he excels at large, sweeping attacks and seamlessly switching from one target to another and back before the first character recovers.

Of course he could tag other people, anyone who can manipulate the flow of a fight can tag other people. Whether or not it's their style is something else entirely. Tenzin might try to come to someone's aid if they're getting overwhelmed, but he's not the sort to try to land a hit and keep moving. Azula might do that, or even maybe Unalaq, but Tenzin? I can see him trying to immobilize Zaheer entirely before going to back up whoever's losing, not what you're suggesting.

Tenzin's ability is in evasion and speed. We see how well he doesn't cope with multiple high-level opponents when he faces the Red Lotus by himself. Tonraq is essentially a nonfactor here, and Sokka might as well stay at home for all the good he'll do. Essentially it'll be Zuko and Tenzin vs Azula, Unalaq, and Zaheer. Zuko isn't powerful enough to pull out a guaranteed victory against any of the three, and Tenzin wouldn't be able to cope with multiple benders of that skill-level.

Team Azula is leagues ahead in intelligence, speed, combat skill, and bending abilities. They would win in a fight, a chess match, a cooking competition, a spelling bee, and an arm wrestling match.

Zuko vs Azula

Like I said, Zuko was able to hold his own against a sane Azula before his dragon training (season 2 opening). The only reason why I'd give Azula the edge is because of her ability to play mind games with her brother. Zuko's swords make things interesting, as he can effectively combine firebending with their use. But Azula carries projectiles herself (see "day of the black sun"/"the eclipse"). Azula's cunning strategy gives her the edge. However, Zuzu isn't alone here.

Tonraq vs Unalaq

Unalaq is the better bender, Tonraq relies on his brute strength and athleticism more (like Father like Daughter). His feats ARE impressive, just not effective. Important to note that we never see Unalaq and Tonlaq fight each other unscathed and at 100%. Tonraq was taking out soldiers and took a hit from his niece and nephew before fighting Unalaq.

Tenzin vs Zaheer

Tenzin destroys Zaheer if fighting one on one. "Destroys" being relative considering airbending is primarily a dodge and evade type element. However, give Tenzin credit where it's due. Not only was he able to take on three benders on his own (until pli sniped him) but he did the best at drawing back the dark spirits in the LOK season 2 finale. Zaheer may be more cunning, but he has yet to demonstrate his skill outside of airbending (show don't tell).

Sokka vs Mai

If fighting one on one, Mai wins. Sokka is better behind the scenes. Mai can get a few hits in if she acts like a sniper, but she typically fights out in the open. Sokka is aware of his shortcomings and thinks outside the box to turn a match in his favor. (Beating combustion man, air ship slice, etc.)

Azula team strategy (more likely to fight their counter-parts due to justified overconfidence):

Azula would likely focus on Zuko and Mai would primarily protect Azula.

Zaheer is the "bait", jumping around to keep everyone unfocused and busy (mostly Tenzin).

Unalaq would focus on Tonraq.

Strategy for team Zuko (arguably more likely to think outside the box):

Tonraq focuses on Azula and Zuko focuses on Unalaq (at Sokka's suggestion), switching off every so often.

Tenzin provides support and contains Zaheer

Sokka stays behind the scenes and finds an opening to use his boomerang.

Sokka is far more skilled in combat near the end of the series. He is probably far better than the likes of jet.

On topic. Team 1 takes it. I personally believe Tenzin would destroy azula. He has shown skill that aang as a kid wished he had in terms of air bending.

Sokka after his sword training is more than skilled enough to take down mai with little issues.

Zuko would probably lose to zaheer but if he fights azula like normal he can hold his own until help arrives.

Unalaq wrecked Tonraq so i don't know what to say there.

Lets switch it around. Basic Match ups

Azula vs Zuko

Zaheer vs Tenzin

Unalaq vs Tonraq.

Mai vs Sokka.

This mainly goes in Team Zuko's favor. Two out of four combatants can easily be beat by their match ups.(mai and zaheer) Heck. Tenzin could knock out Mai quickly then go straight for zaheer while Sokka supports Tonraq in fighting Unalaq. Unalaq is huge threat tho.

@deathhero61:

What makes Sokka more skilled than Zuko or Jet?

@arcus:

His training and the results of said training during the war, proves it within itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYvOnwitIYs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8d1hjg8_fs

I never said sokka was superior to zuko in terms of swordplay. Thats arguable. Zuko is more skilled in terms of swordsplay Sokka is smarter.