#1 Edited by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

Firstly I would like to apologize for my last thread which was a "Bane vs Venom". I didn't mean to make a mismatch thread. Logically Venom would beat Bane under normal circumstances, I just tried to find the right balance between the two in order to make it an actual fight by giving Bane his upgraded toxin with his pre 52 skill as well as knowledge on Venom. Unfortunately it still turned into a spite thread.

So to make an even battle (and to make up for the last) this will be a Team vs Venom.

VS

Location:

Rules

No BFR

They start 50 feet apart

Morals off for team

Bane has upgraded toxin

Team gets 2hrs prep

Venom has the strength of Flash, viciousness of Gargan, and skill/experience of Eddie

Venom is completely aware of what each member is capable of.

Victory by KO, incapacitation or Death

#2 Edited by ShadowPro (1489 posts) - - Show Bio

you kidding? venom stomps

#3 Edited by antiwhipped (202 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Dark beast needs a little more prep to mess with the symbiote effectively enough.

#4 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Posted by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

Prep makes things a bit one sided against venom....Wolverine is likely aware of venoms weakness so I would assume that even with 2 hours of prep dark beast could whip some sonic weapon.

All though to be honest if they were limited to standard gear (basically in a scenario where the team can't make a plot device)....I would go with venom. Bane still gets stomped and I don't think him or dark beast can hurt venom (beast being roughly equal to spider-man in strength and considering spider-man had some serious problems hurting eddie.... Even if dark beast can damage him I don't think it would be significant). Fireflies fire could be an annoyance (it might not to be honest) but he isn't capable enough to beat venom IMHO. And I don't wolverine can't deal with his healing factor, speed and tendrils.

#6 Posted by laflux (14317 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Prep makes things a bit one sided against venom....Wolverine is likely aware of venoms weakness so I would assume that even with 2 hours of prep dark beast could whip some sonic weapon.

All though to be honest if they were limited to standard gear (basically in a scenario where the team can't make a plot device)....I would go with venom. Bane still gets stomped and I don't think him or dark beast can hurt venom (beast being roughly equal to spider-man in strength and considering spider-man had some serious problems hurting eddie.... Even if dark beast can damage him I don't think it would be significant). Fireflies fire could be an annoyance (it might not to be honest) but he isn't capable enough to beat venom IMHO. And I don't wolverine can't deal with his healing factor, speed and tendrils.

I would have to respectively disagree, which I know will bring under the wrath of @god_spawn. But Wolverine has fought Venom before, though he was beaten rather convincingly. However, he would know not to take Venom lightly a second time. I think its logical for Dark Beast, Bane and Firefly to distract Venom long enough for Logan to get some telling shots to the head, which would prove more effective than the body shots he was popping at Venom the first time they fought. With Venom being distracted by the three, I Logan has a shout, considering his combat speed is going by feats, roughly on par with Peter's,

#7 Posted by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Thing is I don't think Bane really can do anything here if he didn't have prep. He can't hurt Eddie so Eddie has no reason to really acknowledge bane. Even Firefly isn't a big deal. Eddie has tanked fire in the past and has some very impressive pain tolerance against sonics so even he probably wouldn't do much in terms of a distraction either. That would leave dark beast but he isn't going to last long either. As I said I doubt he could hurt someone spider-man himself couldn't so I don't see him lasting long. Wolverine is going to have a hard time getting through venoms reach if he uses his tendrils which I think he would. Wolverine might have comparable reflexes/reactions to spider-man but he isn't as agile so his odds of avoiding tendrils aren't the best IMO. He might cut a few but he is getting pinned eventually.

Thats also not getting into the fact that the OP also gave him Flashes strength. IIRC during minimum carnage when flash and carnage got into a grapple Flash over powered carnage when he vulked out.

#8 Posted by laflux (14317 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Oh I just saw that lol. In that case I recall my answer. Though I'm not sure having the viciousness of Gargan would help........

Why not go the whole hog and say he has the jobber qualities of Angelo Venom :P

#9 Posted by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@jashro44: Oh I just saw that lol. In that case I recall my answer. Though I'm not sure having the viciousness of Gargan would help........

Why not go the whole hog and say he has the jobber qualities of Angelo Venom :P

.....Angelo never happened. That was just a illusion >.>

#10 Posted by antiwhipped (202 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to go with the team. I think with two hours of prep and his typical resources, Dark Beast comes up with something that will stun Venom just long enough for team to possibly kill the human host. If they have to kill the symbiote I don't think they win.

#11 Edited by Joygirl (18797 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom takes this pretty easily.

#12 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Though I do agree that Spiderman himself cant do much to Venom, he has damaged him before. With his new Toxin, Bane is pegged around being on a 10 ton range. Dark Beast as well. The Scarlet Spider (Kaine) has also fought Venom and damaged him. After the events in Spider Island he has powers very much like Spiderman.

Now Venom very clearly held an advantage over them in these fights but they did hurt him. Alone Bane and Dark Beast cant do much but together they have better chances. Not saying they could beat him, just they could fight him.

#13 Edited by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal: The first scan has a bit of context to it. I believe it was either in the same issue or the next issue but Flash was still recovering from his fight with Kraven. He references his fight with Kraven when Jack is attacking him afterwards and says that because of both his fights with spider-man and Kraven he isn't 100% when Jack is attacking him. The fight with Kaine, Kaine actually punched Flash multiple times and Flash ended up tanking his attacks (he was punching flash at rapid speeds when he had knocked flash off balance and flash ended up grabbing his punch). Only the stinger really did damage and Flash healed from that. Not to mention Kaine has spider-mans other powers so in theory he is more then twice as strong as spider-man.

The team wins under the conditions provided (due to prep assuming they can create a sonic weapon) but without prep I don't think they can take venom.

#14 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I know Spiderman himself under normal circumstances in a straight up fight can't beat Venom. But he can fight him. That was my point. Dark Beast Is basically an evil version of Beast. He has all the strength and fighting skill. Bane is is very intelligent and an extraordinary fighter. The only down side is that the Toxin makes him irrational. Obviously with the normal toxin he cant do anything to Venom but with the upgraded version he can fight him. Also he could jump great distances (like in the op pic) not like the hulk obviously but still pretty good for a Batman villain. I'll post the scan if I can find it but he basically jumped onto a building that looked about 30-40 feet high.This all kind of falls in line with what laflux said: They could distract him. Firefly could cause plenty of mayhem with the surrounding buildings and Logan has the most experience with Venom out of the group.

#15 Edited by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal:

I know Spiderman himself under normal circumstances in a straight up fight can't beat Venom. But he can fight him. That was my point.

There have also been times when Venom has laughed at Peters best blows.

First 2 he takes punches from spider-man next he takes bens best blow and mocks him

Spider-man can't do physical damage to venom on average IMHO. The scan you posted flash was recovering from another fight. He spent more then a day fighting kraven in the savage land so he isn't at his peak there.

Dark Beast Is basically an evil version of Beast. He has all the strength and fighting skill.

His strength isn't going to help him anymore then spider-mans strength helps him. And beast isn't a skilled fighter so I don't see that making a difference.

Bane is is very intelligent and an extraordinary fighter. The only down side is that the Toxin makes him irrational. Obviously with the normal toxin he cant do anything to Venom but with the upgraded version he can fight him. Also he could jump great distances (like in the op pic) not like the hulk obviously but still pretty good for a Batman villain. I'll post the scan if I can find it but he basically jumped onto a building that looked about 30-40 feet high.

I have seen full the full fight between batman and bane. He is about a 5 tonner in the new 52 I would say, he isn't nearly as strong as spider-man that much I know. He lept to the top of a light house but that was pretty much it. I think venom could do that feat as well. Bane isn't hurting venom.

.This all kind of falls in line with what laflux said: They could distract him. Firefly could cause plenty of mayhem with the surrounding buildings and Logan has the most experience with Venom out of the group.

Bane isn't doing anything to venom if he doesn't show up with a extra weapon.

Pretty much every version of venom can tank fire so I doubt fireflies fire will do anything

Logan would get incapacitated with tendrils. Venom is spider-mans equal in speed and his own healing factor will make him extremely hard to put down.

Team wins if they show up with a sonic weapon. If they don't use there prep to get additional gear Venom will win. I have to stress this as I am not sure if you want the team to show up with a plot device or just want them using standard gear?

#16 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Very nice scans. I've seen Beast in action before though, he looks like a decent fighter. If firefly causes enough damage to the area he could maybe bring buildings down on top of Venom. People have told me Bane's upgraded toxin made him a 10 tonner...I was lied too...

Anyway, what the team does with their prep is entirely up to you guys. Do you think they could bring items and weapons that could aid them in this fight.

#17 Posted by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal:

Very nice scans. I've seen Beast in action before though, he looks like a decent fighter. If firefly causes enough damage to the area he could maybe bring buildings down on top of Venom. People have told me Bane's upgraded toxin made him a 10 tonner...I was lied too...

When you say decent fighter are you talking about martial arts? I didn't even know beast was a martial artist. And I do doubt firefly can bring a building down before venom takes him out. He should be tagged with Venoms webbing and venoms wall climbing ability should help as well.

Anyway, what the team does with their prep is entirely up to you guys. Do you think they could bring items and weapons that could aid them in this fight.

I guess if dark beast is capable of creating a sonic gun or something the team will win.

#18 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44 said:

When you say decent fighter are you talking about martial arts? I didn't even know beast was a martial artist.

Beast is a very skilled at acrobatics and has Incorporated it into his fighting.

And I do doubt firefly can bring a building down before venom takes him out. He should be tagged with Venoms webbing and venoms wall climbing ability should help as well.

You bet your candy ass Venom can take him down with webbing (please excuse the candy ass. Ive been watching a lot of Attitude era wrestling) but that's where Firefly's team mates come into play. They could attempt to hold him off while Firefly gets to work. Keep in mind that the fight isn't limited to a particular street and with prep they could bring explosives.

I guess if dark beast is capable of creating a sonic gun or something the team will win.

Possibly, but it also depends on how powerful it is.

#19 Edited by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal:

Beast is a very skilled at acrobatics and has Incorporated it into his fighting.

Well beast has super human agility so I wouldn't consider it skill that allows him incorporate acrobatics in his style. And Venom is as fast and agile as spider-man so he can match dark beast in agility but he is stronger, a lot more durable, and more versatile.

You bet your candy ass Venom can take him down with webbing (please excuse the candy ass. Ive been watching a lot of Attitude era wrestling) but that's where Firefly's team mates come into play. They could attempt to hold him off while Firefly gets to work.

The only other person that can climb walls like venom is dark beast and venom can over power him. He can rag doll dark beast in a similar manner to what he does to spider-man.

Keep in mind that the fight isn't limited to a particular street and with prep they could bring explosives.

Well again my original comment was mainly talking about if they decided not to bring additional gear. I did state in my original post if they bring additional gear and are smart about what gear they bring they will win.

That said I have scans in this thread of venom tanking extremely powerful explosives so the explosives they bring better be powerful.

Possibly, but it also depends on how powerful it is.

I agree but a sonic gun would peel back the symbiote which would leave the host vulnerable. They can shoot him with a range weapon or something.

#20 Posted by antiwhipped (202 posts) - - Show Bio

Btw that is a really interesting if kind of gross venom image.

#21 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44 said:
Well beast has super human agility so I wouldn't consider it skill that allows him incorporate acrobatics in his style. And Venom is as fast and agile as spider-man so he can match dark beast in agility but he is stronger, a lot more durable, and more versatile.

No argument there.

The only other person that can climb walls like venom is dark beast and venom can over power him. He can rag doll dark beast in a similar manner to what he does to spider-man.

Judging by the scans, that is highly a possibility but Dark Beast is smart and might not engage without backup. I know you said the others may be non factors but even if the toxin is not as powerful as I have been lead to believe, it still makes him strong enough to hurl cars and rubble at him.

Well again my original comment was mainly talking about if they decided not to bring additional gear. I did state in my original post if they bring additional gear and are smart about what gear they bring they will win.

That said I have scans in this thread of venom tanking extremely powerful explosives so the explosives they bring better be powerful.

Well I meant explosives for the buildings, but I'll take your word for it that they would have to bring powerful explosives if they used it on him.

I agree but a sonic gun would peel back the symbiote which would leave the host vulnerable. They can shoot him with a range weapon or something.

True.

#22 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

@antiwhipped: Thanks. There's a much larger version of it on deviant art. The guy that drew it is a huge fan of Venom and has more pictures.

#23 Edited by Inconvenient_Truth (2362 posts) - - Show Bio

that picture of venom in the OP is AMAZING

#24 Posted by antiwhipped (202 posts) - - Show Bio

Browsed Deviant Art and they do have some nice venom art there.

I sort of like this one too..

#25 Posted by New_World_Order (12604 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#26 Edited by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Edited by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal:

Judging by the scans, that is highly a possibility but Dark Beast is smart and might not engage without backup. I know you said the others may be non factors but even if the toxin is not as powerful as I have been lead to believe, it still makes him strong enough to hurl cars and rubble at him.

The issue here is wolverine and bane have no way of climbing walls. If venom is climbing a building to get to firefly the only other person who can back firefly up is dark beast. Wolverine and bane are stuck on the ground.

Well I meant explosives for the buildings, but I'll take your word for it that they would have to bring powerful explosives if they used it on him.

Problem with setting explosives and dropping a building on venom is that

  1. They would have to lure venom to a specific spot
  2. They would have to clear the blast radius
  3. Wolverine might not allow them to do that if morals are on

#28 Posted by Chibi_cute (4488 posts) - - Show Bio

Venom might win this the only threat for him in this fight is the wolverine.

#29 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44 said:

The issue here is wolverine and bane have no way of climbing walls. If venom is climbing a building to get to firefly the only other person who can back firefly up is dark beast. Wolverine and bane are stuck on the ground.

Bane can still jump about 40 feet high. At that height he could grab a hold of edges and potentially wall bounce. Wolverine can still climb with his claws, its just he would be slow as hell or he could go inside the building and take the elevator up. ;)

Problem with setting explosives and dropping a building on venom is that

  1. They would have to lure venom to a specific spot
  2. They would have to clear the blast radius
  3. Wolverine might not allow them to do that if morals are on

  1. Or put the bombs up around the area he's in, but you do have a point. He's not going to just sit still.
  2. True. I would imagine that as soon as Firefly is done He would contact his team and tell them to haul ass; however, the problem is getting Venom to sit still. Really the only person that could take the explosives and not die is Wolverine so he could stay behind to try and keep him there.
  3. Wow I thought I was forgetting something. Yeah, morals are off for the team. I'll go put that up top.
#30 Posted by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal:

Bane can still jump about 40 feet high. At that height he could grab a hold of edges and potentially wall bounce.

Bane hasn't shown he can wall bounce. And he is honestly a non factor if he comes unarmed.

Wolverine can still climb with his claws, its just he would be slow as hell or he could go inside the building and take the elevator up. ;)

Well as you said that would take to long and venom can swing to another building.

  1. Or put the bombs up around the area he's in, but you do have a point. He's not going to just sit still.
      1. Venom will notice the bomb and then can deactivate it using the symbiote. IIRC Flash deactivated a bomb in issue four or five using the symbiote. I believe Brock has also used the symbiote to deactivate a bomb before as well.

  2. True. I would imagine that as soon as Firefly is done He would contact his team and tell them to haul ass; however, the problem is getting Venom to sit still. Really the only person that could take the explosives and not die is Wolverine so he could stay behind to try and keep him there.
    1. Wolverine is unlikely to stall him long enough. Venom is faster, stronger, and he has a very impressive healing factor. If wolverine hasn't come with additional weapons venom is going to incapacitate him. Explosives just don't seem like a good method. Sonics would be more effective.
#31 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44 said:

Bane hasn't shown he can wall bounce. And he is honestly a non factor if he comes unarmed.

Why wouldn't he be able to wall bounce? It would be quite simple for him as he can jump pretty high. He could then grab a hold of edges and make his way across to another building. Though I am going to agree that in combat he cant do much against Venom at all unless he has a weapon.

Well as you said that would take to long and venom can swing to another building.

I could just Imagine him trying to catch up to him. Like the first time he uses his claws but is to slow and says "Screw this!" He then breaks in through a window and runs down a hall to an elevator and takes it up a few floors past were he saw Venom last, but when he gets out and runs to a window he sees that Venom has already taken his fight with Dark Beast to the building across the street and yells "Mother$#@%!"

Venom will notice the bomb and then can deactivate it using the symbiote. IIRC Flash deactivated a bomb in issue four or five using the symbiote. I believe Brock has also used the symbiote to deactivate a bomb before as well.

Interesting.

Wolverine is unlikely to stall him long enough. Venom is faster, stronger, and he has a very impressive healing factor. If wolverine hasn't come with additional weapons venom is going to incapacitate him.

Granted I definitely think Venom would beat Logan, but the thing is Venom likes to "play with his food". He has done it many times with Spider man and has done it with Wolverine.

If he doesn't beat Logan quickly then the bombs will have gone off.

Explosives just don't seem like a good method. Sonics would be more effective.

Sonics would definitely be more effective. Just trying to think of other ways.

#32 Edited by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal:

Why wouldn't he be able to wall bounce? It would be quite simple for him as he can jump pretty high. He could then grab a hold of edges and make his way across to another building. Though I am going to agree that in combat he cant do much against Venom at all unless he has a weapon.

I don't think Bane has shown the balance to do that. He is on the wall for a second. Wall bouncing isn't exactly easy otherwise I imagine pretty every character with super strength would be fighting like that.

I could just Imagine him trying to catch up to him. Like the first time he uses his claws but is to slow and says "Screw this!" He then breaks in through a window and runs down a hall to an elevator and takes it up a few floors past were he saw Venom last, but when he gets out and runs to a window he sees that Venom has already taken his fight with Dark Beast to the building across the street and yells "Mother$#@%!"

LOL pretty much.

Granted I definitely think Venom would beat Logan, but the thing is Venom likes to "play with his food". He has done it many times with Spider man and has done it with Wolverine. If he doesn't beat Logan quickly then the bombs will have gone off.

Well yes but Gargan and angelo aside Venom isn't an idiot. I'm assuming when you grant venom the experience of eddie you have given him his personality. He is likely going to do what it takes to make sure the bomb wont explode. Eddie does mess around but he isn't stupid. If he knows theres a bomb he will actually start trying.

Sonics would definitely be more effective. Just trying to think of other ways.

Understandable. I just think there are a lot of factors which would make explosives ineffective.

#33 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think Bane has shown the balance to do that. He is on the wall for a second. Wall bouncing isn't exactly easy otherwise I imagine pretty every character with super strength would be fighting like that.

Bane has shown martial arts skill nearly on par with Batman. Wouldn't that mean he has really good balance.

LOL pretty much.

I just happened to think that Bane could toss Wolverine, but I would question the accuracy. It would also be funny if he missed.

Well yes but Gargan and angelo aside Venom isn't an idiot. I'm assuming when you grant venom the experience of eddie you have given him his personality. He is likely going to do what it takes to make sure the bomb wont explode. Eddie does mess around but he isn't stupid. If he knows theres a bomb he will actually start trying.

Yeah.

Understandable. I just think there are a lot of factors which would make explosives ineffective.

I had just happened upon these scans and noticed a few things...

In the first scan its noted that bullets and shrapnel hardly do a thing to Venom but if you look close the actual blast of the explosion has made Venom groggy. In the second scan venom states that if the megaphone was fully charged, it might have worked.

What are your thoughts on this.

#34 Edited by jashro44 (19873 posts) - - Show Bio

@warlordeternal:

Bane has shown martial arts skill nearly on par with Batman. Wouldn't that mean he has really good balance.

Well agility and skill aren't quite the same thing. Bane is very skilled and he is more agile then he looks but he isn't on par with batman in terms of agility/acrobatics.

I just happened to think that Bane could toss Wolverine, but I would question the accuracy. It would also be funny if he missed.

LOL I guess that could help. All though venom will be pretty high up, pretty quickly so I don't know if that would be fast enough.

I had just happened upon these scans and noticed a few things...

In the first scan its noted that bullets and shrapnel hardly do a thing to Venom but if you look close the actual blast of the explosion has made Venom groggy. In the second scan venom states that if the megaphone was fully charged, it might have worked.

What are your thoughts on this.

I think in the first scan Venom was only knocked off of his feet. I don't think he was actually damaged. Venom only weighs a couple hundred pounds (roughly) so if he is surprised by a blast it stands to reason it will knock him back. I am not sure if he was really damaged.

The next scan Venom says that may have worked. He also says it takes a lot of noise to stop him because he has built up resistance to sonics.

Here is a good pain tolerance feat for eddie brock:

Here Venom tanks a sonic blast. The gun was designed by Reed and its what was used to remove the symbiote from spider-man originally.

So it should take a fairly powerful sonic attack IMO.

#35 Posted by WarlordEternal (2111 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44 said:

Well agility and skill aren't quite the same thing. Bane is very skilled and he is more agile then he looks but he isn't on par with batman in terms of agility/acrobatics.

True.

LOL I guess that could help. All though venom will be pretty high up, pretty quickly so I don't know if that would be fast enough.

Also depends on how high the building.

I think in the first scan Venom was only knocked off of his feet. I don't think he was actually damaged. Venom only weighs a couple hundred pounds (roughly) so if he is surprised by a blast it stands to reason it will knock him back. I am not sure if he was really damaged.

The next scan Venom says that may have worked. He also says it takes a lot of noise to stop him because he has built up resistance to sonics.

Here is a good pain tolerance feat for eddie brock:

Here Venom tanks a sonic blast. The gun was designed by Reed and its what was used to remove the symbiote from spider-man originally.

So it should take a fairly powerful sonic attack IMO.

I noticed in the first scan he has birds or whatever the hell that is orbiting around his head. They are not colored in so it's hard to tell.

And I would think that it would take a Powerful Sonic blast to hurt him. I was just taken back by the comment he made on the megaphone.

I happen to have a scan of Spider man attacking Venom with a rudimentary sonic weapon.

Granted it's the Mac Gargan Venom, but still

What are your thoughts on this?