"Is Cyttorak really that powerful that he can hold off the likes of Galactus, Death, Oblivion et, etc? "
no "
LOL, there is a plot hole to this, I see it! The team can win but it has to be through P.I.S. All of the people with the Infinity Gems have to give up their Gem to Collector who has the EGO GEM. When Collector merges the 6 Gems into the Ego Gem, it will form the Infinity Entity, Nemesis creator of the Omniverse.
I don't know if she can "kill" Cyttorak per se, but she should still have more than enough power to lock him up into the Crimson Cosmos again.
"Is Cyttorak really that powerful that he can hold off the likes of Galactus, Death, Oblivion et, etc? "
no "
LOL, there is a plot hole to this, I see it! The team can win but it has to be through P.I.S. All of the people with the Infinity Gems have to give up their Gem to Collector who has the EGO GEM. When Collector merges the 6 Gems into the Ego Gem, it will form the Infinity Entity, Nemesis creator of the Omniverse.
I don't know if she can "kill" Cyttorak per se, but she should still have more than enough power to lock him up into the Crimson Cosmos again.
"
if she is indeed the creator of the omniverse then she created him and can destroy him
Lance you disapoint me. You know that Cyttorak can't be killed or deleted from existance - based on the fact that Death and Oblivion can't do anything to his avatar.
For those who think that Elder God is > Cyttorak they are wrong. Cyttorak is more powerfull than any of 4 Elder Gods - that's based on the Fact that combined might of Vishanti is inferior to him and Vishanti(Osthur, Agammoto and Hogoth) are more powerfull than Osthur, Set, Gaea and Chthon alone. Also it was implicated that Vishanti are > Eternity (during the fight with Slorioth) so there it goes theory that comsic entites will do anything to Cyttorak. Also D'Spayer drained Crimson Magic from Juggy once and he was going to have total control of 616 space and time - but he was stopped.
Classic Juggy with several Crimson Cosmos spells defeated Nightmare in Dream Dimension (the nightmare imprisoned Eternity and all creation was having nightmares) also Classic dr. Strange was unable to defeat Nightmare so he called Juggy for help.
Cyttorak also empowered his avatar when Juggy was in Ultraforce universe (out of the multiverse) so he is able to operate on Megaversal scale and Crimson Cosmos is out of 616 and basicly out of the multiverse (I'll exmplain this if anyone wants).
And he has at least 2 apsect which appaear to be sentinent on their own;
- demon looking one whic empowers Juggy
- god looking one which gives spells to many powerfull magic entities (Umar, Dormammu, Zom, even LT used his Bands when fought Strange)
For incident with Nova (Cyttoak kidanped Nova, Galactus, Surfer and Strange from 616 and they were powerless)
Check the part on Crimson Bands. Furter info there are 7 extremly powerfull magic items of Cyttorak.
@TheFallenOne: I'm pretty sure he is testing some of us. Wasn't he the 1st person here to mention Nemesis. By the way, I notice a picture, but the link is broken.
" @TheFallenOne: I'm pretty sure he is testing some of us. Wasn't he the 1st person here to mention Nemesis. By the way, I notice a picture, but the link is broken. "
Well the fact is that those who are able to be killed are all subject of Death's power. Cyttorak is imune to death since his avatar is totaly immortal and judged by that Cyttorak can't be killed even by more powerfull character than himself. He can only be contained or bfr-ed but not killed. There for this thread is only to show to others that Cyttorak can't be killed.
Galactus solos without any form of pis or prep. Most of the other characters here can as well.
@TheFallenOne:
He is only virtually immortal according to his OWN bio. He's not completely immortal and never has been, bud. He WILL get killed here and there is nothing he can do about it. Also, his Crimson Bands aren't extremely powerful as you said before; they couldn't even last long against Nova's Power Cosmic blasts.
@TheFallenOne: Indeed. I've had my arguments with Lord Orcoculous before with Lance, Juggernaut Punch, Human Juggernaut, and Kenshiro. All made good points, but the Juggernaut and Cyttorak points make alot more sense. Most of the arguments debating against Cyttorak is usually biased as far as I can tell.
" Galactus solos without any form of pis or prep. Most of the other characters here can as well.
@TheFallenOne:
He is only virtually immortal according to his OWN bio. He's not completely immortal and never has been, bud. He WILL get killed here and there is nothing he can do about it. Also, his Crimson Bands aren't extremely powerful as you said before; they couldn't even last long against Nova's Power Cosmic blasts. "
Not to mention that the Crimson Bands were broken by Hulk, Doctor Strange and even Namor, if I'm not mistaken.
" Galactus solos without any form of pis or prep. Most of the other characters here can as well.
@TheFallenOne:
He is only virtually immortal according to his OWN bio. He's not completely immortal and never has been, bud. He WILL get killed here and there is nothing he can do about it. Also, his Crimson Bands aren't extremely powerful as you said before; they couldn't even last long against Nova's Power Cosmic blasts. "
Not to mention that the Crimson Bands were broken by Hulk, Doctor Strange and even Namor, if I'm not mistaken. "
Actually the Crimson Bands is a spell and only as powerful as the user focuses on the spell. That is how Dr. Strange broke out of Living Tribunal's Bands, and also the reason why Doctor Strange bested Doctor Doom with the Crimson Bands.
As Strange says, the Bands can hold the mightiest. Even the Living Tribunal had to defend himself from the bands, but Strange bested Living Tribunal because Tribunal lost his focus.
The reason why Hulk broke out of it was due to the same reason. Hulk would of been trapped indefinitely if not for him using the sphered band to cause an earthquake which led to Strange to drop the Crimson Bands to cast another spell (Shield of the Seraphim) to protect the locals around the area.
Since he couldn't break free, Hulk used his renowned leaping ability to propel himself upward—inside the Crimson Bands—and then plummet back down with impressive force.
Dr. Strange then cast the Shield of the Seraphim to keep everyone safe. But with the magician's concentration divided, the Crimson Bands vanished, and the Hulk escaped.
As for Nova breaking free. Cyttorak allowed her freedom, just by negotiating with Strange. If Nova truly could have broke free under her own free will, then she wouldn't of had gotten caught. Not to mention, that Nova had been there for quite some time waiting for Strange to rescue her. How many chances had she tried to go full power and break loose of the Crimson Band after those whole hours, she's been hanging there? And for some strange reason she gets out of her own when Dr. Strange and Juggernaut show up? That's quite a contradiction isn't it?
@Gremlin From Kremlin: Well since Marvel has strayed away from the original concepts of the characters, future writers are watering them down. That's why Dr. Strange is categorized mainly by Classic Strange and Current Strange. Classic Strange was the peak Sorcerer Supreme. This is the character that Living Tribunal wanted to ban but could not. Current Strange is just a glimpse of a shadow that used to be. He is the weakest incarnation of Dr. Strange
@Cypher's Gambit: Marvel didn't really stay away from the original concepts. Stan Lee is still alive. Juggy was still Classic those days. The Living Tribunal did not want to ban Strange, please do not exaggerate. The Living Tribunal was only testing Strange's power, other than that, Stephen is nowhere near close to that powerlevel. He is not even half as powerful as Galactus.
" @Cypher's Gambit: Marvel didn't really stay away from the original concepts. Stan Lee is still alive. Juggy was still Classic those days. The Living Tribunal did not want to ban Strange, please do not exaggerate. The Living Tribunal was only testing Strange's power, other than that, Stephen is nowhere near close to that powerlevel. He is not even half as powerful as Galactus. "
Actually, I'm not exaggerating. During the Zom saga, Living Tribunal did test Strange, but AFTER the Zom Saga, Living Tribunal declared Strange as a threat to all creation, and summon's In-Betweener to hunt down Strange to dispose of him. So with the power of Lord Chaos, Master Order AND Living Tribunal; In-Betweener was amped to the max, but he still lost against Dr. Strange and a few years after that, Dr. Strange lost all his powers after the War of the Seven Spheres due to a dispute of Principalities wanting to make Strange their sole servant.
For incident with Nova (Cyttoak kidanped Nova, Galactus, Surfer and Strange from 616 and they were powerless)
Cyttorak didn't kidnap anybody bro; he merely delayed Galactus and his crew by sending his Crimson Bands to block the path of their ship. Galactus of course, not really giving a crap about Cyttorak or his intentions, only sent his weaker herald and Strange to go inspect rather than go for himself.
@Cypher's Gambit said:
" @Gremlin From Kremlin said:
" @RiseofApocalypse said:
" Galactus solos without any form of pis or prep. Most of the other characters here can as well.
@TheFallenOne:
He is only virtually immortal according to his OWN bio. He's not completely immortal and never has been, bud. He WILL get killed here and there is nothing he can do about it. Also, his Crimson Bands aren't extremely powerful as you said before; they couldn't even last long against Nova's Power Cosmic blasts. "
Not to mention that the Crimson Bands were broken by Hulk, Doctor Strange and even Namor, if I'm not mistaken. "
Actually the Crimson Bands is a spell and only as powerful as the user focuses on the spell. That is how Dr. Strange broke out of Living Tribunal's Bands, and also the reason why Doctor Strange bested Doctor Doom with the Crimson Bands.
As Strange says, the Bands can hold the mightiest. Even the Living Tribunal had to defend himself from the bands, but Strange bested Living Tribunal because Tribunal lost his focus.
What actually happened in Strange Tales 158:
That's not the only part of your post that I found to be incorrect, but I'm too lazy to post anymore scans to disprove your claims.
That's not the only part of your post that I found to be incorrect, but I'm too lazy to post anymore scans to disprove your claims.
"
That's exactly what I've said.
Actually the Crimson Bands is a spell and only as powerful as the user focuses on the spell. That is how Dr. Strange broke out of Living Tribunal's Bands, and also the reason why Doctor Strange bested Doctor Doom with the Crimson Bands.
As Strange says, the Bands can hold the mightiest. Even the Living Tribunal had to defend himself from the bands, but Strange bested Living Tribunal because Tribunal lost his focus.
He is only virtually immortal according to his OWN bio. He's not completely immortal and never has been, bud. He WILL get killed here and there is nothing he can do about it. Also, his Crimson Bands aren't extremely powerful as you said before; they couldn't even last long against Nova's Power Cosmic blasts. "
Let us see if he isn't truly immortal or not. Classic Cain doesn't need to eat, drink nor he needs oxygen to survive. Well that makes him quazi-immortal but hey can he be killed ?
Well the answer is no. Even stripped from all power and almost all emotions, without any organ and with totaly burned skeleton he is still alive. So no Classic Juggy can't be killed, nor he can be hurt (event with Shaterstar's sword isn't canon any more and writer apologized, anuway that's to bad since it shows that he has perfect regeneration and even furthere confirms that he can't be killed since he was stabed in the eye with magic sword so deep that it surely stabed his brain also). and Oblivion couldn't effect Classic Cain.
Cyttorak is that only on infinite levels. And tell me how will Galactus defeat Cyttorak when Galactus can only arguable stealmate Agamotto <<<<<<<<<<<< the combined might of Vishanti <= Cyttorak (proved on panel several times).
Fact is that he has kidnaped Galactus, Nova, Surfer and STrange from 616 and put them in Crimson Cosmos. On Crimson Bands i already posted the part of Hanbook which explains how it happened.
" @Cypher's Gambit: Those scans are old, bro. I don't have the scans where Strange breaks free of the Crimson Bands. As soon as I find it, I'll post it.
As for the Hulk's:
"
The second scan is from Hulk 450 and that didn't happen in the real world, some sort of fantasy world, so I doubt it counts. Now the first scan is quite interesting, can you tell me the number of issue ?
Lance you disapoint me. You know that Cyttorak can't be killed or deleted from existance - based on the fact that Death and Oblivion can't do anything to his avatar.
For those who think that Elder God is > Cyttorak they are wrong. Cyttorak is more powerfull than any of 4 Elder Gods - that's based on the Fact that combined might of Vishanti is inferior to him and Vishanti(Osthur, Agammoto and Hogoth) are more powerfull than Osthur, Set, Gaea and Chthon alone. Also it was implicated that Vishanti are > Eternity (during the fight with Slorioth) so there it goes theory that comsic entites will do anything to Cyttorak. Also D'Spayer drained Crimson Magic from Juggy once and he was going to have total control of 616 space and time - but he was stopped.
Classic Juggy with several Crimson Cosmos spells defeated Nightmare in Dream Dimension (the nightmare imprisoned Eternity and all creation was having nightmares) also Classic dr. Strange was unable to defeat Nightmare so he called Juggy for help.
Cyttorak also empowered his avatar when Juggy was in Ultraforce universe (out of the multiverse) so he is able to operate on Megaversal scale and Crimson Cosmos is out of 616 and basicly out of the multiverse (I'll exmplain this if anyone wants).
And he has at least 2 apsect which appaear to be sentinent on their own;
- demon looking one whic empowers Juggy
- god looking one which gives spells to many powerfull magic entities (Umar, Dormammu, Zom, even LT used his Bands when fought Strange)
For incident with Nova (Cyttoak kidanped Nova, Galactus, Surfer and Strange from 616 and they were powerless)
Check the part on Crimson Bands. Furter info there are 7 extremly powerfull magic items of Cyttorak.
it is a test of knowledge for the viners, thefallenone. thanks for your input. it was really nice deducing and quite knowledgeable reading.
@kenshiroo said:
None of these characters individually or acting as a team can kill someone abstract who is infinite magic itself.
thanks for your input kenshiroo. you've made your points across before and they were enjoyable to read.
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: He has "so many representations of himself" cough.. really?? Kinda hard to have "so many" in like a total of 10 comic appearances. Go back to sleep Tronn_Bonne, its not 7am yet. @CosmosTyrant: Thanks.
Look what Juggernaut can do with 1/8 of the Crimson Gem which that 1/8 is just another fraction of just one of the aspects of Cyttorak. That's just like saying 000.1% of Silver Surfer can beat Mikaboshi using 0.0000001% of Oblivion.
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: So you think that Mikaboshi being an "aspect of infinite" of Oblivion equals Juggernaut being an aspect of infinite of Cyttorak? Albeit, Juggernaut using portions of Cyttoraks power, but since it's not consistent power, Juggernaut depowers when his masters mood is sad so nice try Tron_Bonne.
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