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#1 Edited by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules:

  • No morals
  • Bloodlust on
  • No BFR
  • pre 52
  • The Setting is the Rock of Eternity

Team Odin:

  • Odin
  • Thor (Odin force)
  • Doomsday
  • Silver Surfer
  • Arkillo
  • Thanos
  • Destroyer

Vs.

Team Zeus:

  • Zeus
  • Kuurth (Juggernaut)
  • Orion
  • Monarch
  • Killowog
  • Darkseid
  • Morg

Odin's Team from left to right: Thor w/ odinforce, Doomsday, Silver Surfer, Arkillo, Thanos, and Destroyer

Zeus' Team Starts at Kuurth and ends at Morg

Odin (Team Captain)
Zeus (Team Captain)
#2 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Odin.

#3 Posted by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

is it close

#4 Posted by D3athstroke (4155 posts) - - Show Bio

Whats up with with random people in teams ?

Ill take Team Zeus because of Kuurth and Darkseid

#5 Edited by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

If SS is willing, he could amp himself by absorbing the Sun. That should take out most of team 2 except Monarch, Kuurth, and maybe Darkseid. Morals are off, so this is a possibility.

Kuurth(amped by Cyttorak and Cul) and Destroyer can go at it for eternity.They ain't gonna harm each other.

Monarch and Thanos can duke it out. Darkseid would prob lost to OF Thor especially after taking a hit from SS. Odin would win against Zeus but I dont know if it will take too long to be a factor.

Since, SS took out most of team2 with the blast, Doomsday and Arkillo can finish the job of taking out stragglers

#6 Posted by BigCimmerian (8833 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Odin wins. His team has 2 skyfathers, Destroyer armor and bloodlusted Silver Surfer.

#7 Edited by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Team Odin wins. His team has 2 skyfathers, Destroyer armor and bloodlusted Silver Surfer.

nice point but u have to take into consideration tht for most people Darkseid is equal to Thanos

And i tried to counter SS with Monarch - I think thts pretty fair especially since morals are off they can just go blow for blow

Doomsday killed superman and orion and supes had a good fight so they would be pretty even imo

Arkillo and kilowog can always go either way

Then i countered destroyer with Morg who is supposedly on surfer level

not to mention the comment above u would be correct kuurth is amped by cyttorak and cul and tht should be a good fight against of thor

an lastly odin and zeus it depends who the person is some say odin others say zeus so for me i think i balanced out both teams pretty evenly

#8 Posted by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

@whydama said:

If SS is willing, he could amp himself by absorbing the Sun. That should take out most of team 2 except Monarch, Kuurth, and maybe Darkseid. Morals are off, so this is a possibility.

Kuurth(amped by Cyttorak and Cul) and Destroyer can go at it for eternity.They ain't gonna harm each other.

Monarch and Thanos can duke it out. Darkseid would prob lost to OF Thor especially after taking a hit from SS. Odin would win against Zeus but I dont know if it will take too long to be a factor.

Since, SS took out most of team2 with the blast, Doomsday and Arkillo can finish the job of taking out stragglers

i like your logic but u gotta remember no one on team Zeus is going to stand idly by and take a blast from surfer Sure if it hit one of them which would inevitably happen but dont u think ds omega beam could do some damge and i didnt put this in the op but its final crisis ds with the really sick ob bcuz people complain about his ob a lot bcuz its supposed to kill every thing it touches but it rarely does

#9 Posted by Asagod (292 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1 wins here...

#10 Posted by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

why

#11 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

...I dunno...is it DoS Doomsday or H/P Doomsday?

#12 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

1.OF Thor and Odin can de-power Kuurth from both: Cyttorak's and Serpent's power source.
2.No one beside Monarch and Zeus has a real chance against Destroyer. Darkseid has a chance to hold him for some time. 
3.Odin and Zeus will take each other. OF Thor has to go after Kuurth.
4.Bloodlusted Surfer without morals speedblitzes Orion, Darkseid, Killowog and Morg. None of them can react at nanosecond level. 
5.Now, it still don't finish the job, since Monarch has enough level of energy to kill all living beings in universe. It all depends on him. I am not personlly sure on which level Monarch really is. And using this move is admitting that he can't win, because all people will die. So I don't see why it should be used. Still, Monarch isn't as fast as Surfer and he probably isn't as fast as no-morals Thor. Surfer has telepathy and Cosmic Awareness, while Thor can feel Monarch level of energy. Mjolnir by Infinity Vortex already covered explosion that was powerfull enough to destroy 1/5 of universe. Universe including planets, stars, black holes, etc. We don't know what kind of radiation Monarch used, since it didn't destroy solid objects, but only killed living beings. 
Since Destroyer isn't a real living being, I see him surviving that kind of explosion. 
 
For now I am with Team 1, but I would like to hear arguments about Monarch.

#13 Posted by Asagod (292 posts) - - Show Bio

@MFrenzy11: As far as I remember, they have more fire power and more physical strength.

#14 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, I forgot - OF Thor stops time. How Monarch can deal with that?

#15 Edited by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Oh, I forgot - OF Thor stops time. How Monarch can deal with that?

Ok DS should be able to put up with ss if he had to Of thor could deal withe Zeus but then that leaves Odin empty and Monarch could fill on there also thanos and orion i beleive could go blow for blow since he's beaten his dad b4

#16 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@MFrenzy11 said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Oh, I forgot - OF Thor stops time. How Monarch can deal with that?

Ok DS should be able to put up with ss if he had to Of thor could deal withe Zeus but then that leaves Odin empty and Monarch could fill on there also thanos and orion i beleive could go blow for blow since he's beaten his dad b4

Not with bloodlusted-no-morals Surfer. This one will speedblitz DS.
#17 Posted by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

true true but would DS final Crisis OB do nothing to sufer

#18 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@MFrenzy11 said:

true true but would DS final Crisis OB do nothing to sufer

He wouldn't have time to use it. Surfer has nanosecond reaction speed, so DS would be done before he would even realize this.
#19 Edited by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@MFrenzy11 said:

true true but would DS final Crisis OB do nothing to sufer

He wouldn't have time to use it. Surfer has nanosecond reaction speed, so DS would be done before he would even realize this.

i think he would nanaosecond reaction is absurd and in new 52 flash did out run it but that is new 52 and that is flash are u inferring ss is as fast as the flash not far fetched just asking

#20 Posted by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

also remember when odin just manhandled ss if zeus is on the same level couldn't he do the same

#21 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@MFrenzy11
1.Surfer has shown nanosecond reaction speed in the past.
2.Since it is team vs. team, it matter what would be done from the start.
Surfer is fastest, so he will speedblitz anyone who can speedblitzed. Darkseid, Orion, Kilowog and Morg can be blitzed by him. Zeus and Kuurth, possibly Monarch won't be speedblitzed for sure. 
I am not sure what messages will Surfer send to his teammates, but thanks to Cosmic Awareness he will know everything about them.  
King Thor can stop time and current Thor has his memories and only his own morals stopped him from be second Odin. So here, he will be as good as Odin. 
Now, Zeus shouldn't be stopped, since their power are based on magic and is in the same level. But I don't see why Monarch should be able to not be stopped. Kuurth can slow down by Destroyer. So, Thor + Odin crush Zeus, then take out Kuurth and whole team is going against stopped Monarch.
#22 Posted by MFrenzy11 (497 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@MFrenzy11: 1.Surfer has shown nanosecond reaction speed in the past. 2.Since it is team vs. team, it matter what would be done from the start. Surfer is fastest, so he will speedblitz anyone who can speedblitzed. Darkseid, Orion, Kilowog and Morg can be blitzed by him. Zeus and Kuurth, possibly Monarch won't be speedblitzed for sure. I am not sure what messages will Surfer send to his teammates, but thanks to Cosmic Awareness he will know everything about them. King Thor can stop time and current Thor has his memories and only his own morals stopped him from be second Odin. So here, he will be as good as Odin. Now, Zeus shouldn't be stopped, since their power are based on magic and is in the same level. But I don't see why Monarch should be able to not be stopped. Kuurth can slow down by Destroyer. So, Thor + Odin crush Zeus, then take out Kuurth and whole team is going against stopped Monarch.

nice arguament i hv conceded and refuted too long u make sense and so does ur arguement Team Odin wins

#23 Posted by bornstar (1319 posts) - - Show Bio
@jeanroygrant said:

Team Odin.

#24 Posted by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@MFrenzy11 said:

@whydama said:

If SS is willing, he could amp himself by absorbing the Sun. That should take out most of team 2 except Monarch, Kuurth, and maybe Darkseid. Morals are off, so this is a possibility.

Kuurth(amped by Cyttorak and Cul) and Destroyer can go at it for eternity.They ain't gonna harm each other.

Monarch and Thanos can duke it out. Darkseid would prob lost to OF Thor especially after taking a hit from SS. Odin would win against Zeus but I dont know if it will take too long to be a factor.

Since, SS took out most of team2 with the blast, Doomsday and Arkillo can finish the job of taking out stragglers

i like your logic but u gotta remember no one on team Zeus is going to stand idly by and take a blast from surfer Sure if it hit one of them which would inevitably happen but dont u think ds omega beam could do some damge and i didnt put this in the op but its final crisis ds with the really sick ob bcuz people complain about his ob a lot bcuz its supposed to kill every thing it touches but it rarely does

SS may not get hurt by Omega Effect while being amped. Even a clear hit from Mjollnir was just for deflecting him. I am quite sure that a bloodlusted SS can tag Morg, Kilowog, Darkseid and Orion

#25 Posted by Bo88gdan (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian said:

Team Odin wins. His team has 2 skyfathers, Destroyer armor and bloodlusted Silver Surfer.

This.ODin Team Ftw

#26 Posted by Mattersuit (4274 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bo88gdan said:

@BigCimmerian said:

Team Odin wins. His team has 2 skyfathers, Destroyer armor and bloodlusted Silver Surfer.

This.ODin Team Ftw

Agreed

#27 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

No Morals and Bloodlusted: Monarch solos!

#28 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Funcake said:

No Morals and Bloodlusted: Monarch solos!

I was waiting for some Monarch-defender :-D
Try to answer on this:
@czarny_samael666 said:
1.OF Thor and Odin can de-power Kuurth from both: Cyttorak's and Serpent's power source. 
2.No one beside Monarch and Zeus has a real chance against Destroyer. Darkseid has a chance to hold him for some time.  
3.Odin and Zeus will take each other. OF Thor has to go after Kuurth. 
4.Bloodlusted Surfer without morals speedblitzes Orion, Darkseid, Killowog and Morg. None of them can react at nanosecond level.  
5.Now, it still don't finish the job, since Monarch has enough level of energy to kill all living beings in universe. It all depends on him. I am not personlly sure on which level Monarch really is. And using this move is admitting that he can't win, because all people will die. So I don't see why it should be used. Still, Monarch isn't as fast as Surfer and he probably isn't as fast as no-morals Thor. Surfer has telepathy and Cosmic Awareness, while Thor can feel Monarch level of energy. Mjolnir by Infinity Vortex already covered explosion that was powerfull enough to destroy 1/5 of universe. Universe including planets, stars, black holes, etc. We don't know what kind of radiation Monarch used, since it didn't destroy solid objects, but only killed living beings.  Since Destroyer isn't a real living being, I see him surviving that kind of explosion.   
 
For now I am with Team 1, but I would like to hear arguments about Monarch.
@czarny_samael666 said:
@MFrenzy11:  
1.Surfer has shown nanosecond reaction speed in the past. 
2.Since it is team vs. team, it matter what would be done from the start. Surfer is fastest, so he will speedblitz anyone who can speedblitzed. Darkseid, Orion, Kilowog and Morg can be blitzed by him. Zeus and Kuurth, possibly Monarch won't be speedblitzed for sure.  I am not sure what messages will Surfer send to his teammates, but thanks to Cosmic Awareness he will know everything about them.   King Thor can stop time and current Thor has his memories and only his own morals stopped him from be second Odin. So here, he will be as good as Odin.  Now, Zeus shouldn't be stopped, since their power are based on magic and is in the same level. But I don't see why Monarch should be able to not be stopped. Kuurth can slow down by Destroyer. 
So, Thor + Odin crush Zeus, then take out Kuurth and whole team is going against stopped Monarch.
#29 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Monarch is beyond Skyfather level. Wich member again of the Team Odin would still exist after "all life in the universe erasing" aka universe busting attack? I see no one. Your strategy can work, but I doubt that the Team Odin would still exist after hitting by Darkseids OB because nowbody of them are important to the universe and yes they would be hitted Surfer at least. When you make a strategy so try to keap this balanced. How often did Surfer use his speedblitz? Bloodlusted etc is preety fine, but SS still a horrible fighter. It does not matter how fast he can be.

#30 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Funcake said:

@czarny_samael666: Monarch is beyond Skyfather level. Wich member again of the Team Odin would still exist after "all life in the universe erasing" aka universe busting attack? I see no one. Your strategy can work, but I doubt that the Team Odin would still exist after hitting by Darkseids OB because nowbody of them are important to the universe and yes they would be hitted Surfer at least. When you make a strategy so try to keap this balanced. How often did Surfer use his speedblitz? Bloodlusted etc is preety fine, but SS still a horrible fighter. It does not matter how fast he can be.

1.You've didn't answer on my points, like speed or time stopping.
2.There is not only bloodlusted, but also "no morals", ergo Surfer will use his speed.
3.Darkseid's OB are as good as the best taken enemy. And it actually is Superman. Superman who also isn't specially resistant to matter manipulation or magic. No one beside Arkillo will be taken out by OB. but Darkseid won't even have a chance to shoot them, since he will got speedblitzed by Surfer. He also will be stopped by OF Thor. or Odin.
4.Monarch can make similar explosion by suicide move, which shouldn't be in his hand until whole team will be finished. Now: I would have to ask You for scans about his immunity/high resistance to these attacks:
-Surfer FTL speedblitz
-OF Thor stopping time
-Thanos and Odin's telepathy
-Mjolnir's BFR 
 
Now, even if Monarch will manage to use his all power - it never destroyed a universe. It killed all living beings in it. It didn't destroy stars or black holes, just killed all people. It means that is had to be some kind of specific radiation, not just high level of energy projection (if it would be, then everything would be destroyed, like when Inhumans' Terrigen Bomb was activated or when Galactus destroyed whole 3 solar systems).
Thor can hold explosion of bomb that can destroy 1/5 of universe with Mjolnir without OF. And Destroyer isn't living thing, so he won't die after this. Similar with Thanos, but from different reasons.
#31 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: No enough reflex-combatspeed feats for time stopping, or does he?! No speedblitz because Surfer is not over Superman who not holding back if he fights DS and DS (can stop) stops Supes from speedblitzing with relative easy even when I don think Surfer is stronger than Supes and can oneshot DS. Even if time stopping work, they will only see a "Big Bang Attack" from Monarch at slow motion.

#32 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5301 posts) - - Show Bio

SS would destroy Supes so I don't see what you are getting at. Not to mention also that SS is faster than Supes. Team 1 for the win.

#33 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Funcake said:

@czarny_samael666: No enough reflex-combatspeed feats for time stopping, or does he?! No speedblitz because Surfer is not over Superman who not holding back if he fights DS and DS (can stop) stops Supes from speedblitzing with relative easy even when I don think Surfer is stronger than Supes and can oneshot DS. Even if time stopping work, they will only see a "Big Bang Attack" from Monarch at slow motion.

1.King Thor simply stopped time. What about it?
2.Until it was said that Supeman used nanosecond reaction speed against DS - DS didn't defend himself from attack like this. 
3.Monarch doesn't have enough energy to make big bang, he just killed all living beings in universe. Destroyer isn't alive. Using it from start isn't a way to win a battle. If he will - he also will covered by Mjolnir or they will open portals around him to let his energy go to other dimension. I mean stopping time, not slowing it down. What about Thanos telepathy?
#34 Edited by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Any combat speed feats from King Thor? Is does not matter because he can if he doesn´t hold back. It is enough said at scans full of WIS, PIS and Hyperbole like your favorite Silverage scan of Surfers nanoreaction speedfeats wich claims above omnipotence of Galanctus for example. So finally it is not a prove for a feat for me only if some writer trys to sounds cool and writes about things he doesn´t has a clue. So the Destroyer is not alive, he would survive, but how is he on taking some one on universal scale (at least Monarch was universal scale with multiversal Threat). You cant stopping time if the reality where you are blows down I think, or you are a multiversal beeing. Could Thanos telepathy effect someone on Monarch level or some energy beeing?

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

SS would destroy Supes so I don't see what you are getting at. Not to mention also that SS is faster than Supes. Team 1 for the win.

So bloodlusted and without Morals Surfer defeats Supes, ergo Surfer is able to oneshot DS and solo the hole DCU by spamming multiple blackholes , engergydraining, mattermanipulating, mindraping and mimic all powers at the same time while taking all charackters at once. Bravo logic applause!

#35 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Funcake said:

@czarny_samael666: Any combat speed feats from King Thor? Is does not matter because he can if he doesn´t hold back. It is enough said at scans full of WIS, PIS and Hyperbole like your favorite Silverage scan of Surfers nanoreaction speedfeats wich claims above omnipotence of Galanctus for example. So finally it is not a prove for a feat for me only if some writer trys to sounds cool and writes about things he doesn´t has a clue. So the Destroyer is not alive, he would survive, but how is he on taking some one on universal scale (at least Monarch was universal scale with multiversal Threat). You cant stopping time if the reality where you are blows down I think, or you are a multiversal beeing. Could Thanos telepathy effect someone on Monarch level or some energy beeing?


King Thor is Thor with all powers and abilities and OF.  Ergo, this Thor has all Thor's speed feats. 
Something is hyperbole, when You prove it. Galactus isn't omnipotent,because it was proven. If it wouldn't be proved, he would be omnipotent. 
Surfer has nanosecond reaction speed, until You can PROVE that he isn't and that something was rectonned, etc.
It would be a feat for You, if You will use the same logic for all characters.  
When people were claiming that DS has microsecond reaction speed, I had to agree, until I found that he was boosted at the moment. Try to do the same thing, but be open for situation in which Surfer really has nanosecond reaction speed.
Ergo: Surfer would solo all of them in nanosecond. OF Thor will stop time. 
Thanos can stop Monarch from doing it. Besides, when Monarch will do it - he will end himself. Plus I would like to know how can he open his armor (I mean how he will do it, since time matters here).
#36 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5301 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funcake not sure where your getting SS solos from what I said? You brought up Supes being superior to SS an Supes holding back against Darkseid as a feat. The only reason Supes ever lasts against Darkseid is PIS. Darkseid would stomp Supes. Now getting back to SS and Supes, a bloodlusted morals off SS would utterly destroy Supes also. He's on another level. Not saying he can definitely beat Darkseid, but I think he has a shot where Supes has none.

#37 Edited by NyghtMare (403 posts) - - Show Bio

For now I say Team Odin, but I could be swayed. I'm not completely sure how some of this stuff would affect Monarch. But bloodlusted Surfer destroys Orion, Darkseid, Killowog and Morg right off the bat.

#38 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Funcake said:
King Thor is Thor with all powers and abilities and OF. Ergo, this Thor has all Thor's speed feats.

No, because for all version of Thor must be the same right valid like for Golden Superman Prime from DC one million. Otherwise its nothing more than doublestandart for me. Also when did Thor displays high speed reaction last time?!

@czarny_samael666 said:

Something is hyperbole, when You prove it.

Doesn´t need to because you did it for me by posting that BS back then. So the scan is still not valid for me to claim Surfer had nanosec reaction/reflexes and Monarch either DS gets oneshotted by Surfer. Bloodlusted and without Morals does not makes a horrible fighters to pro´s. Please think about it.

Monarch still higher level than Odin or Galactus (wich fed stat is irrelevant atm because Galan would perhaps also own the group).

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

@Funcake not sure where your getting SS solos from what I said? You brought up Supes being superior to SS an Supes holding back against Darkseid as a feat. The only reason Supes ever lasts against Darkseid is PIS. Darkseid would stomp Supes. Now getting back to SS and Supes, a bloodlusted morals off SS would utterly destroy Supes also. He's on another level. Not saying he can definitely beat Darkseid, but I think he has a shot where Supes has none.

No holding back Supes has more rawpower, fightingskill, fighting speed and smartness than bloodlusted/without morals Surfer. If Surfer act smart he would defeat DS because of his powerset but not in nanoseconds. And if I´m not mistaken like Surger to go 2h2 or not?! DS would destroy him 2h2.

#39 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Funcake

No, because for all version of Thor must be the same right valid like for Golden Superman Prime from DC one million. Otherwise its nothing more than doublestandart for me. Also when did Thor displays high speed reaction last time?!

1.It isn't, becuase it is just powered up version, not different, from different universe or something like that. He has all his old feats plus new ones.
2.Doesn't matter. This isn't fight in character.
 
3.Until You prove that something is hyperbole - it isn't.  Surfer has nanosecond reaction speed, until You will be able to prove opposite.
4.Darkseid isn't fast enough to deflect Surfer's attack. And if Monarch will start by his most powerfull move, King Thor still stops it by stopping time. Besides, all people will die, including ones from his team if he will succed. But Destroyer will survive, so either way Odin team wins.
#40 Posted by isaac_clarke (5479 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like Monarch is the biggest gun on team two and team one just feels more consistently stacked.

#41 Posted by Kellar21 (444 posts) - - Show Bio

OB doesn't work very well on skyfather level beings,see when he tried to use on High-Father,and I believe this important to the Universe fact has been debunked here.OB is Darkside fancy vaporizing,and some people can argue that Darkside and High-Father aren't even on Skyfather level(Thanos isn't).

Also Odin is normally considered stronger than Zeus(more feats and he seems to older and wiser,and overall better with magic),so I think he could take out Zeus or stalemate him,but then we got OF Thor who while not as versed as his father could him stalemate while tehy probably fight with time stoped for everyone else.

Then their combined force along with the rest of the team takes out the other team(I believe two skyfathers,especially if Odin enters the destroyer which seems to amplify his power) can cut off Kuurth from Cytorrak and Cul,then the rest of the team is easy through I don't know much about Monarch I know no one form the other team could go agains Odin using the Destroyer armor which seemed to worry Galactus and take some fire from several Celestials.

Also unless Zeus blinks him out of existence or Darkside uses OB to the full power,I don't see how team 2 puts down DD permanently.

And I am not even counting that SS would blitz the lower members of team 2 making the fight much easier,but then any of the Skyfathers could one-shot them.

#42 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@Funcake:

No, because for all version of Thor must be the same right valid like for Golden Superman Prime from DC one million. Otherwise its nothing more than doublestandart for me. Also when did Thor displays high speed reaction last time?!

1.It isn't, becuase it is just powered up version, not different, from different universe or something like that. He has all his old feats plus new ones. 2.Doesn't matter. This isn't fight in character. 3.Until You prove that something is hyperbole - it isn't. Surfer has nanosecond reaction speed, until You will be able to prove opposite. 4.Darkseid isn't fast enough to deflect Surfer's attack. And if Monarch will start by his most powerfull move, King Thor still stops it by stopping time. Besides, all people will die, including ones from his team if he will succed. But Destroyer will survive, so either way Odin team wins.

1. What do you mean? Golden Prime was the future version (means the same version) of new earth Supes you and most people claimed that he still featless, if I´m not mistaken.

2.Right does not matter because he still to dumb use his speed which still inferior to nanosec. So he still does not matter agains Monarch like the rest of the Team Odin.

3. Try to read and understand your own posted scans at first.

4. DS reaction been done if you ignore it so its fine and I can live with this. King Thor like the rest of the Team are useless against someone on Monarchs level. About Destroyer I´m not sure if he has such resistance level because if something said/claimed indestructible (for example) it doesn´t mean it is for real in comic-reality.

#43 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kellar21 said:

OB doesn't work very well on skyfather level beings,see when he tried to use on High-Father,and I believe this important to the Universe fact has been debunked here.OB is Darkside fancy vaporizing,and some people can argue that Darkside and High-Father aren't even on Skyfather level(Thanos isn't).

From what I heard, they doesn´t count as Skyfahter because some people think Skyfathers have to bust Galaxies which in Odins case isn´t proved on pannel it was only one of the silver age hyperbole claims.

#44 Posted by Kellar21 (444 posts) - - Show Bio

yes,odin did bust galaxies one panel with his fights with Set and Eternity(not the one you are thinking),he's accepted as one,and one time I think Surtur said Odin hit him wiht enough power to bust a galaxy(Surtur is also a confirmed Galaxy Buster,he busted one to forge his sword,and another to test it),and several others.

#45 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funcake said:

From what I heard, they doesn´t count as Skyfahter because some people think Skyfathers have to bust Galaxies which in Odins case isn´t proved on pannel it was only one of the silver age hyperbole claims.

Thats a very bad standard to set up to define a skyfather. Abraxas (an abstract level entity), Master Order and Lord Chaos (other abstract level beings), Celestials including Areshiem have yet to bust a galaxy, and with that "galaxy busting standard" neither of them are skyfather beings, which to me is weird.

#46 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Surfer cant blitz Monarch because he is just too damn durable, although i have yet to see a quantifable reaction time from Monarch. I personally dont take being able to destroy a universe, after his energy was released from his seal as an impressive feat or an indication of his power level. However, Monarch has fought and rather easily beat 3 Superman and 34 Captain Atom from various universe , all by himself which clearly puts him above anyone else from Team 1 except Odin.

Also where is Thor's time manipulation coming from??? The title says Odin Force Thor, the picture is of Odin Force Thor, why are you using feats from King Thor? Different version altogether, one has beard , other doesnt. Makes a difference ;)

#47 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@Kellar21 said:

yes,odin did bust galaxies one panel with his fights with Set and Eternity(not the one you are thinking),he's accepted as one,and one time I think Surtur said Odin hit him wiht enough power to bust a galaxy(Surtur is also a confirmed Galaxy Buster,he busted one to forge his sword,and another to test it),and several others.

In some scan where new earth and superman from earth 2 fighting is claimed that their fight shatered reality dring the crisis. So only when you see this sinlge scan with a claim, you can say that superman is an reality warper because he shaters reality via side effect?! I don´t think so.

@Killemall said:

Thats a very bad standard to set up to define a skyfather. Abraxas (an abstract level entity), Master Order and Lord Chaos (other abstract level beings), Celestials including Areshiem have yet to bust a galaxy, and with that "galaxy busting standard" neither of them are skyfather beings, which to me is weird.

Thats only because some people cant differentiate feats from claims and hyperbole.

#48 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funcake said:

In some scan where new earth and superman from earth 2 fighting is claimed that their fight shatered reality dring the crisis. So only when you see this sinlge scan with a claim, you can say that superman is an reality warper because he shaters reality via side effect?! I don´t think so.

Thats the feat you are referring to isnt it?

Being able to affect space and time (i.e. the universe) seems on part with Galaxy busting really =)

Thats only because some people cant differentiate feats from claims and hyperbole.

Agreed =)

#49 Posted by Funcake (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Funcake said:

In some scan where new earth and superman from earth 2 fighting is claimed that their fight shatered reality dring the crisis. So only when you see this sinlge scan with a claim, you can say that superman is an reality warper because he shaters reality via side effect?! I don´t think so.

Thats the feat you are referring to isnt it?

Being able to affect space and time (i.e. the universe) seems on part with Galaxy busting really =)

Thats only because some people cant differentiate feats from claims and hyperbole.

Agreed =)

Yes sir!!! =)

#50 Posted by lol (5388 posts) - - Show Bio

Monarch destroys the universe