Fallen One is not empowered by the Power Cosmic like Firelord and the Silver Surfer and thus may have been susceptible to Thanos' manipulations. Also, Thanos does not have telepathic powers so that feat isn't even one for telepathy but Thanos' abiity to manipulate people, things, and events. Cosmic Flames are empowered by the Power Cosmic which includes telepathy so it should have no problems exploiting J'onns weakness.
I gotta hand it to Team GREEN and especially MM, I didnt think they'd win all these battles so easily. The combo of intangibility and TP is just so damn tough to fight.
Fallen One is not empowered by the Power Cosmic like Firelord and the Silver Surfer and thus may have been susceptible to Thanos' manipulations. Also, Thanos does not have telepathic powers so that feat isn't even one for telepathy but Thanos' abiity to manipulate people, things, and events. Cosmic Flames are empowered by the Power Cosmic which includes telepathy so it should have no problems exploiting J'onns weakness.
Where do you get the idea the Power Cosmic includes telepathy. And Thanos used "Brain Whammy" on Fallen one to put him under his control. Also Annihilus' mind control bugs had no problem with Terrax, so I think you are going to actually need to provide an example of Firelord resisting TP if you want to claim that he can.
I gotta hand it to Team GREEN and especially MM, I didnt think they'd win all these battles so easily. The combo of intangibility and TP is just so damn tough to fight.
I gotta hand it to Team GREEN and especially MM, I didnt think they'd win all these battles so easily. The combo of intangibility and TP is just so damn tough to fight.
Should've put Zoom on team yellow :P
LOL... there's a reason the Flashes or Zoom wont be making an appearance in the color wars. =)
If void isn't disabled, Sentry solos. I'm just saying.
Thanks for reading,
Floopay
This battle only includes Sentry, not Void. However, the next battle for Team GREEN is now up in which they fight Team BLACK. And, guess who's in that battle? =)
Feel free to go give your feedback on who wins that fight.
The Silver Surfer, who is solely powered by the Power Cosmic, can and has used telepathy before which means that Telepathy is a part of his powers.
Brain Whammy and Brain Bugs =/= Telepathy. The Mind Control Bugs works by physically controlling your biology. I have no idea what you mean by Brain Whammy but Thanos is not a telepath and as such it cannot be telepathy which again is unimportant because Fallen One is not powered by the Power Cosmic. Do you think that the Joker is a telepath? He managed to mind control Grayven, Son of Darkseid with his Joker Venom. No, because Telepathy is not any of these things.
@DedmanWalkin: Yeah because all the other Heralds of Galactus have been shown to be exactly like Silver Surfer...What I'm saying is just because they are empowered by the Power Cosmic, doesn't mean they all have the same powers and abilities
That Fact that mind control bugs (How do you think they work anyway) and Thanos was able to enslave Fallen One (Brain Whammy was Skreet's way of describing it) show that on the whole Heralds don't seem all that resilient to mind control
Is it true that lanterns can't teleport anymore in the dncu? I saw a couple of scans that made me question it.
They seem to rely on Cyborg to do all the teleporting, even if it means that they end up in enemy territory.
A group of lanterns seemed to rely on this one gl who had teleporting as a superpower. He died and overloaded his natural super power. They also left behind a couple of lanterns in trouble...
@DedmanWalkin: Yeah because all the other Heralds of Galactus have been shown to be exactly like Silver Surfer...What I'm saying is just because they are empowered by the Power Cosmic, doesn't mean they all have the same powers and abilities
That Fact that mind control bugs (How do you think they work anyway) and Thanos was able to enslave Fallen One (Brain Whammy was Skreet's way of describing it) show that on the whole Heralds don't seem all that resilient to mind control
That actually reminds me...
Acctually he has a point.
1.Thanos is also Power Cosmic user.
2.The Fallen One's power doesn't come from Astral Plane, but from Black Matter.
If Martian will use his TP on Sentry he will just take out himself. If it works on Sinestro, than Team Green wins. The same about Firelord. If it won't work, then Team Yellow easily.
I said powers but I really meant Power Cosmic, telepathy is a component of the Power Cosmic. All users of the Power Cosmic experience it in different ways but ultimately it is still a function of the universe and as such all users of the Power Cosmic should have the ability to use it exactly the same. The fact that they don't is simply a limit of their mind. It is almost exactly like the Power Ring, all users of the Power Ring should be capable of the exact same thing but we commonly see different power levels which is primarily a mental/skill thing. Firelord is an idiot to be sure but he is still using one of the most powerful forces in the universe.
Mind Control Bugs work by physically manipulating your biology just like Joker Venom, Mad Hatter Hats, and any number of mind control devices. The Silver Surfer himself was mind controlled during WWH when he had an obedience disk put on him. That Brain Whammy looks like some sort of mind control achieved through rewriting his brain through his various energy manipulation abilities like some forms of mind control devices. Again, neither of these things are telepathy.
I said powers but I really meant Power Cosmic, telepathy is a component of the Power Cosmic. All users of the Power Cosmic experience it in different ways but ultimately it is still a function of the universe and as such all users of the Power Cosmic should have the ability to use it exactly the same. The fact that they don't is simply a limit of their mind. It is almost exactly like the Power Ring, all users of the Power Ring should be capable of the exact same thing but we commonly see different power levels which is primarily a mental/skill thing. Firelord is an idiot to be sure but he is still using one of the most powerful forces in the universe.
Mind Control Bugs work by physically manipulating your biology just like Joker Venom, Mad Hatter Hats, and any number of mind control devices. The Silver Surfer himself was mind controlled during WWH when he had an obedience disk put on him. That Brain Whammy looks like some sort of mind control achieved through rewriting his brain through his various energy manipulation abilities like some forms of mind control devices. Again, neither of these things are telepathy.
Do you have any evidence to support that theory?
Manipulating psychic energy is one of the many descriptions of telepathy used in comics, but I think if we go with most parsimonious explanation we would just say Thanos used TP. Martian's TP has been said to actually be able to shut down brain control of the body. I agree that the obedience disk is a different story. If you look up the definition of telepathy it's pretty broad ( Psychol the communication between people of thoughts, feelings, desires, etc., involving mechanisms that cannot be understood in terms of known scientific laws) I don't think you can show that what Thanos is doing is any different from what J'onn can do
Looks familiar, Restorative Brain Whammy?
@chiq: What does teleporting have anything it?
@czarny_samael666: So you're saying as long as the characters who have never shown TP resistant are some how immune to J'onn's TP they win. And Fallen one was a past Herald yes? Why would he not have the same level of access to power cosmic as Firelord? It's not like Firelord is a current Herald.
Martian's TP has been said to actually be able to shut down brain control of the body.
Just to solidify this point:
Gallery
These are examples of the Manhunter's telepathy being used to shut down pain centers, render others unconscious, shut down people's minds, cause seizures, induce comas, and put people to sleep.
Not entirely sure what this argument is about, but this should help Vuviper's point, anyway, which, from what I skimmed through, I agree with so far.
@czarny_samael666: So you're saying as long as the characters who have never shown TP resistant are some how immune to J'onn's TP they win. And Fallen one was a past Herald yes? Why would he not have the same level of access to power cosmic as Firelord? It's not like Firelord is a current Herald.
1.I've said that if they can survive it - team 2 will easily win. If no then... no. Point is that IDK that Sinestro has it or no. If I would be a part of that discusion (and I am not) I would be with Martian agaisnt Sinestro, since IDK his TP resitance feats and I don't belive that Lanterns has auto-shields (as You know, since we were talking about it in other thread).
There is difference with Firelord, since he should have similar acces to Surfer's to Astral Plane and since I belive that Surfer's connection is a recton, then if Firelord wasn't mind-controlled after that he should be consider as a person immune to TP. BTW Terrax wasn't controlled by TP in Annihilation.
2.Fallen One isn't like other heralds, that is why I've said that Your opponent here has a point. He isn't in connection with Astral Planet, since he isn't Power Cosmic user. His source of power is black matter. He was too big threat and Galactus imprisoned him in Kyln and never used b.m. as a power source for his herlads in the future.
@vuviper: Just wanted to know what their current powers are. If they can't port, they might be susceptible to dimension dumping. Not sure if the other team is capable of that though...also is mm affected by just mystical fire? or any fire in general?
@czarny_samael666: So you're saying as long as the characters who have never shown TP resistant are some how immune to J'onn's TP they win. And Fallen one was a past Herald yes? Why would he not have the same level of access to power cosmic as Firelord? It's not like Firelord is a current Herald.
1.I've said that if they can survive it - team 2 will easily win. If no then... no. Point is that IDK that Sinestro has it or no. If I would be a part of that discusion (and I am not) I would be with Martian agaisnt Sinestro, since IDK his TP resitance feats and I don't belive that Lanterns has auto-shields (as You know, since we were talking about it in other thread).
There is difference with Firelord, since he should have similar acces to Surfer's to Astral Plane and since I belive that Surfer's connection is a recton, then if Firelord wasn't mind-controlled after that he should be consider as a person immune to TP. BTW Terrax wasn't controlled by TP in Annihilation.
2.Fallen One isn't like other heralds, that is why I've said that Your opponent here has a point. He isn't in connection with Astral Planet, since he isn't Power Cosmic user. His source of power is black matter. He was too big threat and Galactus imprisoned him in Kyln and never used b.m. as a power source for his herlads in the future.
One could argue then that the Astral Plane thing is just as inapplicable as the Annihilus' bugs and J'onn's TP works by a completely different mechanism that the heralds aren't immune too.
And what are you basing Firelord's connection to the Astral plane off of anyway, the notion that other Heralds powered by the Power Cosmic can do anything Surfer can seem way more unfounded than other assumption you've had trouble with, for example Green Lanterns sharing feats or what not. In fact if you look at the powers and abilities displayed by the Heralds you find way more differences than similarities.
Ah ok, i didn't know that Galactus granted him power of black matter instead of Power Cosmic or w/e
@chiq: Psychic fire, psionic fire. It's not even too clear, I just took his statement to mean he's susceptible to the fires of passion because of scorch.
1.I've said that if they can survive it - team 2 will easily win. If no then... no. Point is that IDK that Sinestro has it or no. If I would be a part of that discusion (and I am not) I would be with Martian agaisnt Sinestro, since IDK his TP resitance feats and I don't belive that Lanterns has auto-shields (as You know, since we were talking about it in other thread).
There is difference with Firelord, since he should have similar acces to Surfer's to Astral Plane and since I belive that Surfer's connection is a recton, then if Firelord wasn't mind-controlled after that he should be consider as a person immune to TP. BTW Terrax wasn't controlled by TP in Annihilation.
2.Fallen One isn't like other heralds, that is why I've said that Your opponent here has a point. He isn't in connection with Astral Planet, since he isn't Power Cosmic user. His source of power is black matter. He was too big threat and Galactus imprisoned him in Kyln and never used b.m. as a power source for his herlads in the future.
One could argue then that the Astral Plane thing is just as inapplicable as the Annihilus' bugs and J'onn's TP works by a completely different mechanism that the heralds aren't immune too.
And what are you basing Firelord's connection to the Astral plane off of anyway, the notion that other Heralds powered by the Power Cosmic can do anything Surfer can seem way more unfounded than other assumption you've had trouble with, for example Green Lanterns sharing feats or what not. In fact if you look at the powers and abilities displayed by the Heralds you find way more differences than similarities.
Ah ok, i didn't know that Galactus granted him power of black matter instead of Power Cosmic or w/e
1.Point was that Annihilus didn't control them psionically at all. It was due Thanos tech and Annihilus resources. That is why they later were able to control Galactus. Theywere controlling people bodies in more biological way.
2.But I've didn't say that Firelord share Surfer's psionic abilities. I've said that he should share his immunity to be defeated in Astral Plane, since it is not comming from Surfer's abilities, but from his connection to Astral Plane. Thanks to this connection, he can use Power Cosmic in its pure essence as a base of all his powers. The same logic apply to Firelord, so he should take all benfits of it as much as Surfer do. About Lanterns - their power depends on their way of using it, experience etc. Psionic shields are their ability - Heralds immunity is their nature. Surfer's offensive TP is an ability, so Firelord would have to prove that he can do the same.
Mostly like Stronians - they all depend on confidence, which is in their nature, but only best of them can destroy planets.
3.According to Skreet and Thanos, he did. IT was a failure, so he didn't repeat that.
1&2 and I'm saying that I could say that J'onn could effect him in a way that has nothing to do with the Astral plane, he can take direct control of their nervous system and has done so on numerous occasions. This doesn't mean I concede that Firelord even has the astral plane invincibility, I'm just saying it doesn't matter anymore. Why would he share the Astral PLane immunity and not the other powers if Silver Surfer soley gets his powers from the same source as Firelord and deadmanwalkin was implying?
3. I'm not sure what you are saying her, is Fallen one tied to Power Cosmic or what?
1&2 and I'm saying that I could say that J'onn could effect him in a way that has nothing to do with the Astral plane, he can take direct control of their nervous system and has done so on numerous occasions. This doesn't mean I concede that Firelord even has the astral plane invincibility, I'm just saying it doesn't matter anymore. Why would he share the Astral PLane immunity and not the other powers if Silver Surfer soley gets his powers from the same source as Firelord and deadmanwalkin was implying?
3. I'm not sure what you are saying her, is Fallen one tied to Power Cosmic or what?
1.That is a point, but how is he doing it outside of telepathy? And it is not Surfer's or Firelord's power - it is their nature, it comes from their connection to Astral Plane. Surfer way of using PC was formed by Galactus, but simple fact that he made all of them Power Cosmic based people makes logical that all of them share this nature.
2.Skreet told that to Thanos (in her way of course) and according to Thanos' later chat with Galactus - Fallen One doesn't have any connection to Power Cosmic. Only to black matter.
1. Shutting down or taking control of their nervous system. without needing to shut own their minds (though he had do that too). It's not like it's established that his normal telepathy is rooted in the astral plane anyway
2, Ok that's what I thought the first time, but the last comment confused me a bit.
Those are feats for Martian Manhunter's Telekinesis not his Telepathy. Telepathy is defined as mind to mind communication not mind to body communication and mind to body communication that the Martian Manhunter has done would have to be done through telekinesis not telepathy. Martian Manhunter's TK does not have many substantial feats.
Also, Manhunter does not have any sort of fire immunity. The Human Flamethrower, a joke of a many with flamethrowing nipples killed the Martian Manhunter. Superboy Prime used Heat Vision to completely take out the Martian Manhunter. If Manhunter was immune to it then neither of these situations could have happened. Firelord's TP immunity through the Power Cosmic and ability to deploy Cosmic Flame should completely annihilate J'onn. Without J'onn, Sinestro keeps Hal busy while Firelord and Sentry double team WWH and take him out then Hal has to take on all 3 of them together. Green Team loses this match.
Those are feats for Martian Manhunter's Telekinesis not his Telepathy. Telepathy is defined as mind to mind communication not mind to body communication and mind to body communication that the Martian Manhunter has done would have to be done through telekinesis not telepathy. Martian Manhunter's TK does not have many substantial feats.
Also, Manhunter does not have any sort of fire immunity. The Human Flamethrower, a joke of a many with flamethrowing nipples killed the Martian Manhunter. Superboy Prime used Heat Vision to completely take out the Martian Manhunter. If Manhunter was immune to it then neither of these situations could have happened. Firelord's TP immunity through the Power Cosmic and ability to deploy Cosmic Flame should completely annihilate J'onn. Without J'onn, Sinestro keeps Hal busy while Firelord and Sentry double team WWH and take him out then Hal has to take on all 3 of them together. Green Team loses this match.
Manhunter was killed when he was severely drugged, stabbed by Libra and blasted in the face by Dr. Light and Effigy (GL level) and then stabbed again. not by the Human Flamethrower. Superman or Wonder Woman could easily have died from the same, no weakness to fire necessary. Just wanted to clear than up for anyone else that reads your post as it is clear there isn't any point in replying to you
Again, I know that I slightly misrepresented the facts here for dramatic effect but regardless Effigy is a GL Level Fire Manipulator of which Firelord is as well which means Firelord should be able to easily take out Martian Manhunter.
Again, I know that I slightly misrepresented the facts here for dramatic effect but regardless Effigy is a GL Level Fire Manipulator of which Firelord is as well which means Firelord should be able to easily take out Martian Manhunter.
Effigy hurt a severely weakened J'onn who'd been drugged and then stabbed with a weapon that can harm the Spectre.
1. Shutting down or taking control of their nervous system. without needing to shut own their minds (though he had do that too). It's not like it's established that his normal telepathy is rooted in the astral plane anyway
I don't see how can it work without reaching Astral Plane
1. Shutting down or taking control of their nervous system. without needing to shut own their minds (though he had do that too). It's not like it's established that his normal telepathy is rooted in the astral plane anyway
I don't see how can it work without reaching Astral Plane
Biologically, as you said. Or where you talking about the telepathy? Why would it need to work on the astral plane? If there is a scan floating around saying all thought telepathy requires that the telepath bring themselves to the astral plane?
1. Shutting down or taking control of their nervous system. without needing to shut own their minds (though he had do that too). It's not like it's established that his normal telepathy is rooted in the astral plane anyway
I don't see how can it work without reaching Astral Plane
Biologically, as you said. Or where you talking about the telepathy? Why would it need to work on the astral plane? If there is a scan floating around saying all thought telepathy requires that the telepath bring themselves to the astral plane?
Ok, but by which power?
I don't see how You can avoid travel into Astral Plane and still use a telepathy, until of course You're not just using it's energy to fire a psi-bolt.
1. Shutting down or taking control of their nervous system. without needing to shut own their minds (though he had do that too). It's not like it's established that his normal telepathy is rooted in the astral plane anyway
I don't see how can it work without reaching Astral Plane
Biologically, as you said. Or where you talking about the telepathy? Why would it need to work on the astral plane? If there is a scan floating around saying all thought telepathy requires that the telepath bring themselves to the astral plane?
Ok, but by which power?
I don't see how You can avoid travel into Astral Plane and still use a telepathy, until of course You're not just using it's energy to fire a psi-bolt.
Does it have to have a name? I don't know how. But Silver posted many scans of him manipulating the nervous system of different characters. Do you not believe he can do so?
Why? As I understand it, the astral plane is either where your mind or your soul would manifest when it leaves your body. Or it could be any kind of place that your soul/mind could manifest. I don't really know, if you have a comic book definition, let me know. If j'onn's telepathy involved possessing people I might give it to you, but in just being able to read or manipulate someone's thoughts. I'm not sure why you accessing the astral plane is necessary for this. But if you have a scan stating J'onn's telepathy does work by taking his victims to an astral plane I'll accept it.
Biologically, as you said. Or where you talking about the telepathy? Why would it need to work on the astral plane? If there is a scan floating around saying all thought telepathy requires that the telepath bring themselves to the astral plane?
Ok, but by which power?
I don't see how You can avoid travel into Astral Plane and still use a telepathy, until of course You're not just using it's energy to fire a psi-bolt.
Does it have to have a name? I don't know how. But Silver posted many scans of him manipulating the nervous system of different characters. Do you not believe he can do so?
Why? As I understand it, the astral plane is either where your mind or your soul would manifest when it leaves your body. Or it could be any kind of place that your soul/mind could manifest. I don't really know, if you have a comic book definition, let me know. If j'onn's telepathy involved possessing people I might give it to you, but in just being able to read or manipulate someone's thoughts. I'm not sure why you accessing the astral plane is necessary for this. But if you have a scan stating J'onn's telepathy does work by taking his victims to an astral plane I'll accept it.
1.Yes, through telepathy. 2.I don't have it, but as I see it, that is the reason why (just for example) Quasar coudn't drain Warlock or why psionic energy can't be drained by energy manipulators - it exist on different plane of existance. I never seen a TP battle outside of using astral projections.
Biologically, as you said. Or where you talking about the telepathy? Why would it need to work on the astral plane? If there is a scan floating around saying all thought telepathy requires that the telepath bring themselves to the astral plane?
Ok, but by which power?
I don't see how You can avoid travel into Astral Plane and still use a telepathy, until of course You're not just using it's energy to fire a psi-bolt.
Does it have to have a name? I don't know how. But Silver posted many scans of him manipulating the nervous system of different characters. Do you not believe he can do so?
Why? As I understand it, the astral plane is either where your mind or your soul would manifest when it leaves your body. Or it could be any kind of place that your soul/mind could manifest. I don't really know, if you have a comic book definition, let me know. If j'onn's telepathy involved possessing people I might give it to you, but in just being able to read or manipulate someone's thoughts. I'm not sure why you accessing the astral plane is necessary for this. But if you have a scan stating J'onn's telepathy does work by taking his victims to an astral plane I'll accept it.
1.Yes, through telepathy. 2.I don't have it, but as I see it, that is the reason why (just for example) Quasar coudn't drain Warlock or why psionic energy can't be drained by energy manipulators - it exist on different plane of existance. I never seen a TP battle outside of using astral projections.
"I feel Ma'alefa'ak's projection of energy leave my mind" "It slams through the neuron's of Flashes brain, shutting them down like millions of light switches" No where is it stated that it is through telepathy, and even if it was, no where is it stated that they have to reach the astral plane.
Gallery
2. TP battle with no astral projections:
I'm not sure about in comics but traveling to the astral plane in most cases means leaving one's body, and therefore any control of it. If that way true, Martian Manhuter would not even be able to maintain his shape.
1.Yes, through telepathy. 2.I don't have it, but as I see it, that is the reason why (just for example) Quasar coudn't drain Warlock or why psionic energy can't be drained by energy manipulators - it exist on different plane of existance. I never seen a TP battle outside of using astral projections.
"I feel Ma'alefa'ak's projection of energy leave my mind" "It slams through the neuron's of Flashes brain, shutting them down like millions of light switches" No where is it stated that it is through telepathy, and even if it was, no where is it stated that they have to reach the astral plane.
Gallery
2. TP battle with no astral projections:
I'm not sure about in comics but traveling to the astral plane in most cases means leaving one's body, and therefore any control of it. If that way true, Martian Manhuter would not even be able to maintain his shape.
Exodus and Rachel fought in Astral Plane without leaving their bodies. Astral Plane is also part of Your own mind, so all possesion-attakcs includs fights in Astral Plane. And You've shown psi-bolts, something that was reflected before by no-psionic-power weapons. Mjolnir already blocked it in the past.
@czarny_samael666: I don't know what you are saying about the astral plane. You're talking about a fictional ability and trying to tie it by necessity to a fictional place. If you want to prove i, you have to show me where in the fiction (Any comic involving J'onn's telepathy or a statement concerning all TP in DC) that it states he must enter the astral plane to control someone's, read their minds, or incapacitate them. There are certainly examples of him entering the astral plane, but it's usually done for a specific purpose.
Martian is faster, and can be invisible, How will Thor block it when he has no idea where it's coming from and no way to sense it.
@czarny_samael666: I don't know what you are saying about the astral plane. You're talking about a fictional ability and trying to tie it by necessity to a fictional place. If you want to prove i, you have to show me where in the fiction (Any comic involving J'onn's telepathy or a statement concerning all TP in DC) that it states he must enter the astral plane to control someone's, read their minds, or incapacitate them. There are certainly examples of him entering the astral plane, but it's usually done for a specific purpose.
Martian is faster, and can be invisible, How will Thor block it when he has no idea where it's coming from and no way to sense it.
1.I am not sure how it works in DC, but I don't see using TP (besides energy projection, like psi-bolts) being manifestated without going into Astral Plane. 2.Thor isn't a part of this battle ;) I've said that if team 2 can survive TP assault they will easily win. I don't see Martian starting battle in this way. Firelord and Sinestro are the most ruthless people here, WWHulk is a non factor because he can't fly. Hal can hold anyone but I doubt that Martian will win with any couple from team 2. Their energy projection will hurt him, possibly fast enough to take him out.
2. haha so he isn't, Why did you bring it up? You can't expect me to remember who we were talking about. If they hurt him he can go defensive. They don't have an answer for his intangibility, speed, invisibility. Any damage they deal won't last long due to his incredible healing, I just don't see any of them taking him down. And Firelord being invincible on the Astral plane is iffy, and I don't think it would even come up. And J'onn temporarily shut down Doomsdays body before he was even aware that Doomsday had become sentient.
2. haha so he isn't, Why did you bring it up? You can't expect me to remember who we were talking about. If they hurt him he can go defensive. They don't have an answer for his intangibility, speed, invisibility. Any damage they deal won't last long due to his incredible healing, I just don't see any of them taking him down. And Firelord being invincible on the Astral plane is iffy, and I don't think it would even come up. And J'onn temporarily shut down Doomsdays body before he was even aware that Doomsday had become sentient.
1.Than where are their thoughts then? 2.You mean Mjolnir part? Just to show You that psi-bolts works on the same way any energy projection does. ;) Too many similar battles ;) To hurt them, he would have to became solid again. If he will try this trick on Firelord, he will just be burned. I don't see how he can survive such an attack. Do You belive that Martian can't be beaten by physical force? Hulk also has great HF, but he can be KOd. Martian isn't Void - he doesn't live in energy form that came back even if his body was completly (and I mean completly) destroyed. He is rather like Sinister who can reform, but if You will destroy every part of his body and won't have a way to posses someone on the field - he will die.
1. In his head...unless you mean everyone is constantly in the astral plane...which I would also need evidence for.
2. But it doesn't all work the same, do you see any energy here that could be blocked?
3. He does not have to become solid in order to use his heat vision or telepathy. He can also attack with his fist by having them become solid when he actually is about to hit. And what makes you think Firelord is so powerful J'onn couldn't survive his attack? He never struck me as very powerful for a herald. I never said Martian can't be beaten by physical force, but as long as his power aren't ignored, it can be very difficult and I don't believe these guys will do it, especially with questionable TP resistance.
1. In his head...unless you mean everyone is constantly in the astral plane...which I would also need evidence for.
2. But it doesn't all work the same, do you see any energy here that could be blocked?
3. He does not have to become solid in order to use his heat vision or telepathy. He can also attack with his fist by having them become solid when he actually is about to hit. And what makes you think Firelord is so powerful J'onn couldn't survive his attack? He never struck me as very powerful for a herald. I never said Martian can't be beaten by physical force, but as long as his power aren't ignored, it can be very difficult and I don't believe these guys will do it, especially with questionable TP resistance.
I can show You few examples of something like that I think... For example, today I've read one of UXM issue in which Emma was standing in "Ghost form" (You know like Strange somethimes) talking to Cyke by telepathy and she said that she was in Astral Plane. When Rachel Summers fought currently with Exodus, she said to her teammates that she is already fighting with Exodus in Astral Plane. All forms of telepathy that I know (besides psi-bolts, that are just an energy manifestation), are manifestated in Astral Plane. I don't remember an instance in which it was said that someone is using telepathy without reaching Astral Plane. 2.In Psi-Bolts? Of course. In other kind of TP? No, becuase it doesn't operate on normal plane of existance, but in AP. 3.His vision shouldn't really be a problem to these energy manipulators. Point about Firelord is that in his hardest fights he is surrounded by his fire-aura. IT hurts even Thor and Surfer, so it should do even more to Martian considering MM's experience with fire. Can't Sinestro just imprison him BTW?
1.Citing examples of telepath using telepathy via the astral plane does not prove that telepath need to use telepathy through the astral plane. In order to do that you'd need an example of J'onn being cut off from the Astral plane and then saying he could no longer use his mental powers.
2. I mean in the scan I just posted, or the ones Silver posted a while ago, do each of them show visible energy that could be blocked? No, though some do.
3. Only if the energy manipulators have demonstrate the ability to see them. Even superman couldn't despite being able to see individual molecules, see any kind of EM radiation, and even look at Super Boy's soul... Batman said that Martian can be truly undetectable if they wanted. So it would hurt MM, that doesn't mean it will be easy to take him out. And Martian's weakness to fire was overcome long ago. Sinestro may be able to imprison him for a while, but I don't know if he can hold intangible foes and the Martian would break out eventually. Hal would be enough to keep Sinestro busy though if Sinestro isn't mind controlled. See all of them only have shaky evidence for being able to resist MM's TP, the chanes that all 3 are going to resist are miniscule, 1 person is probably going to be enough for team green to soundly defeat yellow.
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