Team Ben10 vs Team DC

@PrinceAragorn1: Even though Way Big has feats claiming his rays are planetery. And once, twice. Malware thing happened in same episode. So it can't be WIS either. It was pretty clear what writers wanted to imply.

We're not talking about memory. Of course Supes has better memory. I Even said that in my last post. I mean battle mind. Only intelligence that matters in a fight like this. Ben always comes up with unique ways to win when he's outnumber or outclassed. Highbreed invasion, outsmarting Vilgax, defeating Eon and Forever Knights in his dream, figuring out Perplrxahedron..

I gave the example of Batman to say that Superman CAN become smarter(as in more learned) than Bats. This is his potential. But currently he's not.

Supes is frozen in time. Now Ben has all the time in world to keep hitting Superman. He's not going anywhere. Or hit Supes a couple of times by his rays.

Omega beam feat was the first time he met Darkseid, right? I addresed that. He barely survived. He couldn't have taken another one.

He didn't know where Red Hood was teleporting. Exactly. He couldn't have pointed to a location he didn't know about. Only logical reasoning is he assumed Red Hood would go to earth. He reached there, used his supervision to find him. We didn't see anything from Superman's pov.

Ben team wins. Don't see how DC team can go up against intangibility and time powers.

Also, I never knew Superman blitz with morals...

@rbt:

Even though Way Big has feats claiming his rays are planetery. And once, twice. Malware thing happened in same episode. So it can't be WIS either. It was pretty clear what writers wanted to imply.

Waybig doesn't have feats or general power to say he's above city level. You're forming a theory putting him at planetary level.

We're not talking about memory. Of course Supes has better memory. I Even said that in my last post. I mean battle mind. Only intelligence that matters in a fight like this. Ben always comes up with unique ways to win when he's outnumber or outclassed. Highbreed invasion, outsmarting Vilgax, defeating Eon and Forever Knights in his dream, figuring out Perplrxahedron..

I gave the example of Batman to say that Superman CAN become smarter(as in more learned) than Bats. This is his potential. But currently he's not.

Of course he can become smarter. He doesn't need to for the sake of the thread though.

Batman being better than superman doesn't really affect anything, as none of team 1 are even remotely close to his level.

Supes is frozen in time. Now Ben has all the time in world to keep hitting Superman. He's not going anywhere. Or hit Supes a couple of times by his rays.

And he can't really dish out anything that can actually scratch someone with planet level durability before his time stop runs out.

Omega beam feat was the first time he met Darkseid, right? I addresed that. He barely survived. He couldn't have taken another one.

Point is, he survived one. There really isn't anything team ben can do to harm him.

He didn't know where Red Hood was teleporting. Exactly. He couldn't have pointed to a location he didn't know about. Only logical reasoning is he assumed Red Hood would go to earth. He reached there, used his supervision to find him. We didn't see anything from Superman's pov.

So basically, he's fast enough to search every location on earth to see where he landed in a minute or two.. Either way, he's far too fast for team 1.

@princearagorn1: Ben doesn't time out. I agree physical attacks wouldn't work on Superman, but aging or completely freezing superman would do.

The only alien I think would help Ben's team is that time one, other than that they don't have much of a case.

Kevin can still absorb him. I don't remeber Clark going against someone like Kevin.

Superman fights Parasite who absorbs powers through touch all the time. He's not exactly unfamiliar with power draining.

@MetalJimmor: Kevin has absorbed living beings before. Infact, he absorbed Aggregor(more experienced osmosian) AFTER absorbing Ultimatrix. It took him onle 3 seconds to absorbt Agrregor. Ultimatrix energy is not same as green energy Hal absorbs. It is fused with Kevin's DNA(like Vilgax told in original series). I don't think Hal can absorb that. Kevin can go intangible as well.

I am doubtful about Gwen. I agree that her shield won't hold against Diana. But she has TK too, remeber. A significanlty lesser powerful Gwen was crushing Humunusaur with her TK. And she wasn't even trying.

I don't think OP is using Ultimate Ben 10k. He was very clear that Ben would have every alien power at once.

Galavanic Mechamorphs(Upgrades) survived their moon exploding. I'm actually not sure about Ult Way Big's durability. Only durability feat he had was tanking Diagon's lasers who was universal being and had planatery+ TP.

I doubt Superman can "disintegrate" someone with moon durability. Ben's regen will kick just as he recieves ANY damage.

I meant SUperman doesn't have any measures against the power absorbing.

@PrinceAragorn1: No, I'm not. We have never seen upper limit of Way Big. Just because he doesn't have planatery feats in strength doesn't mean he can't have planatery feats at all. His rays are planatery+ because they did more damage than planet busters AND moon explosion. Twice. SOmething like this cannot be ruled out.

Lets start again. Give me a feat of Superman which shows him he has a better battle mind than Ben. Or that he can come up with plans like Ben does.

I just told you. Way Big's rays. Or Clockwork's time ray. Or Pixie Dust's go to sleep power. Or he can keep hitting him using Ult Way Big's strength until he goes down. Or Kevin can just touch him. Superman's durability doesn't matter at all when there so many ways for Team Ben to win. ALso, what planetery level durability? Supes was hurt by Hellspont's energy balst which were doing very little damage to mountains. Don't bring up surviving Omega beam feat. We all saw how powerful THAT omega beam was when Flash outrun it and it hit one of Darkseid's soldiers. It didn't seem like planet busting to me.

That's a feat for his supervision or superhearing. He found out location of Jason in less than two miutes. That's not combat speed.

I'm gonna be be controversial and say Gwen solos if we go by what an Anodite potentially can do.

Kevin can solo.

Ben is hard... logically Superman can get to him via speedblitz, but I don't think he can be put down due to regen. As well as the advantage Goop would offer against brawlers.

good day

@rbt:

No, I'm not. We have never seen upper limit of Way Big. Just because he doesn't have planatery feats in strength doesn't mean he can't have planatery feats at all. His rays are planatery+ because they did more damage than planet busters AND moon explosion. Twice. SOmething like this cannot be ruled out.

He doesn't have planetary feats at all. You're using scaling to put a barely city busting character at planet level. That's what the problem is.

Lets start again. Give me a feat of Superman which shows him he has a better battle mind than Ben. Or that he can come up with plans like Ben does.

Like.. instantly figuring out how to resist mind control?

I just told you. Way Big's rays. Or Clockwork's time ray. Or Pixie Dust's go to sleep power. Or he can keep hitting him using Ult Way Big's strength until he goes down. Or Kevin can just touch him. Superman's durability doesn't matter at all when there so many ways for Team Ben to win. ALso, what planetery level durability? Supes was hurt by Hellspont's energy balst which were doing very little damage to mountains. Don't bring up surviving Omega beam feat. We all saw how powerful THAT omega beam was when Flash outrun it and it hit one of Darkseid's soldiers. It didn't seem like planet busting to me.

Interestingly enough, hellspont is a Majestic villain.. Clark surviving that many blasts from him should be considered PIS, actually. They really shouldn't be in the same ring lol.

Considering new 52 darkseid has busted planets on-panel? I'd say yes, it is.

And If I recall right, the soldier died? lol.

Way big's rays, on the other hand have never been used to bust a city even. You're directly extending it to planet level.

Considering superman has telepathic resistance, I don't see the dust working on him. And considering his own blows, thousands of times more powerful than waybig's, don't ko him easily, I don't see that happening either.

How much has clock work aged someone in a go? As far as I know, no one on JL roaster can do anything to time manipulation. But if the best he has is aging people several days or something, that isn't helping either.

But aside from the hax, team ben don't have what it takes to go against any one of the big members of JL. Luckily Manhunter isn't there.

You're putting three upper street level - Multiblock - City level guys against a planetary class hero.. doesn't work out well.

1: he can elevate Way Big to planetary via... Ascalon has busted a planet + wielded by a very experienced user (George) = only made scratches on a universal/dimensial entity while UWB's cosmic rays were chopping up said entity. He really doesn't need feats destroying a city to prove he is above a city buster.

2: Pesky's dust is not tp. Ditto to tp resistance mate.

3: All Clockwork has to do is stop time and TeamBen wins. Team DC can age and they should fall under that scenario.

4: that makes no sense... they have what they have, hax or not. That's like saying without speed, physical strength, eye lasers DC has no way of taking team Ben.

5: so you are going with world class hero eh... guess Ben wins since he is considered a universal class hero.

Street level is a tad lowballing, no?

good day

@PrinceAragorn1: Barely above city level? Where are you getting this from? I don't remember any measurable upper limit of Way Big being shown in the show. He has feats of planet+ level. And why is power scaling wrong? People use it all the time in comics.

And? And whose mind control did Clark figure out to resist? And that's not planning. Ben actually comes up with PLANS to win a battle.(which is what matters here. Who can read a book faster has nothing to do with this argument).

I'm just sqying what I read. Hellspont was clearly holding back in his first meeting with Supes. His blasts were not doing much damage to mountains and Supes was getting hurt from it.

Sure the soldier died, but did it look like it was planet buster? IIRC, that was Darkseid's first meeting with Supes as well.

And Way Big's rays will never be used to bust a city in future either. Why? He's a good guy. His rays however have been used to chop off Diagon AND disintegrate Malware, who survived moon+ explosion. It's noy that hard to grasp. WayBig's rays ARE planet plus. He's two feats to support it.

And how will tp resistance help him against PD's powder. TP resistance(not immunity) doesn't automatically means that he'll have resistance to every mebtal attacks. IIRC, Supes(along with all the JL) was defeated in a second by that old dream guy(don't remember his name.)

Clockworks's timeray is stronger than that of Eon's. Eon has disintegrated Way Big. So I'd say he can easiky age Supes to dust.

Ben doesn't even need to do this. He can stop time and leave rest to Kevin.

Kevin has absorbed living beings before. Infact, he absorbed Aggregor(more experienced osmosian) AFTER absorbing Ultimatrix. It took him onle 3 seconds to absorbt Agrregor. Ultimatrix energy is not same as green energy Hal absorbs. It is fused with Kevin's DNA(like Vilgax told in original series). I don't think Hal can absorb that. Kevin can go intangible as well.

Then he can definitely absorb people with a touch. I guess I missed that story arc. Still, it doesn't show any resistance to getting his own energy absorbed, which is what he needs to stop Hal. Though I feel we won't get anywhere with this argument, since they are both absorbing energy from eachother.

I am doubtful about Gwen. I agree that her shield won't hold against Diana. But she has TK too, remeber. A significanlty lesser powerful Gwen was crushing Humunusaur with her TK. And she wasn't even trying.

Wonder Woman should be stronger than Humongosaur. Wonder Woman is also a lot faster than Gwen can react to. Though now I'm wondering why Gwen is such a weak character in the show if she has TK that can crush a million tonner. I mean... Why doesn't she just TK grab all her opponents and hold them in the air so they can't fight back?

I don't think OP is using Ultimate Ben 10k. He was very clear that Ben would have every alien power at once.

He did say Ultimate Ben. If this is Ben with every single alien at the same time then that's at a level he's never appeared as before.

Galavanic Mechamorphs(Upgrades) survived their moon exploding. I'm actually not sure about Ult Way Big's durability. Only durability feat he had was tanking Diagon's lasers who was universal being and had planatery+ TP.

I remember that episode, though I can't help but feel there's some context to the Moon's explosion that I am forgetting. Upgrade has been hurt by opponents far, far below Moon busting level. Sadly I missed the Diagon stuff, though Diagon having planetary TP doesn't necessarily mean he has planet level laser attacks.

@MetalJimmor: Okay. What I doubt is, can Hal actually absorb Ultimatrix energy from Kevin. I don't remember him doing anything like this. He usually absorbs green energy of his ring. And can he counter Kevin's intangibility?

Wonder Woman IS stronger than Humungosaur. But its about durability. I haven't been following her New 52 issues , so I won't know. What's her best durability feat?

Gwen doesn't do it all the time because she's rarely in her anodite form. She's usually in her human form which is much weaker than her anodite form. She wasn't even completely anodite when she casually crushed Humungosaur with her TK.

I know. But OP was very clear about it.

Only time I remember Upgrade being hurt by something was when he tried to touch a Megawatt in original series and was shocked by the electricity. Funny, how in omniverse, electricity is what Azmuth used to activate them.

The part you're forgetting about Upgrade's durability is that all of them were completely immobilised after the explosion. Azmuth used electricity to reactivate them. But Ben's regen. should take care of that.

I know. That's why I said I'm not sure about Way Big's durability. Diagon had planetery+ TP, was tanking planet busting attacks and was considered an universal threat. That's why I assumed it.

@rbt:

Okay. What I doubt is, can Hal actually absorb Ultimatrix energy from Kevin. I don't remember him doing anything like this. He usually absorbs green energy of his ring. And can he counter Kevin's intangibility?

He should be able to. A power ring can absorb and create any form of energy the user wills it to. The creation of energy requires knowledge of the energy's makeup, but absorbing energy is absorbing energy regardless of what kind it is. As for intangibility, I got a scan of Hal talking about it but not doing it.

Hal seems pretty confident his ring can counter intangibility, but it's not concrete proof. I like how his idea to beat Batman is to strap him to a rocket and send him away. lol

Wonder Woman IS stronger than Humungosaur. But its about durability. I haven't been following her New 52 issues , so I won't know. What's her best durability feat?

I don't know what her best was, but she was taking blows from Doomsday in the Superman/Wonder Woman series, and it seems like Death of Superman is still in continuity, so she was taking hits that are capable of severely hurting Superman. If you want I can rummage through the Respect Thread for her and see if I can kind something better.

Only time I remember Upgrade being hurt by something was when he tried to touch a Megawatt in original series and was shocked by the electricity. Funny, how in omniverse, electricity is what Azmuth used to activate them.

The part you're forgetting about Upgrade's durability is that all of them were completely immobilised after the explosion. Azmuth used electricity to reactivate them. But Ben's regen. should take care of that.

Ahhh, right. So a Moon's explosion pretty much killed them all, it's just that Azmuth can bring them back.

I know. That's why I said I'm not sure about Way Big's durability. Diagon had planetery+ TP, was tanking planet busting attacks and was considered an universal threat. That's why I assumed it.

Did the beams hit anything else besides Waybig we might be able to judge by?

@MetalJimmor: Hal can absorb energy, okay. But ultimatrix energy is fused with Kevin's dna. Absorbing it would be like, absorbing solar energy stored insides Clark. Yeah, these two are pretty similar. Has Hal ever(I mean Pre 52 as well. I'm curious) done this?

The scan you posted is pre 52. And its statement.

Taking hits from Doomsday...well more impresdive than anything Humungosaur ever did.

It didn't kill them(obviously). And not only Azmuth, anyone with electricity can. Ben has an insane regen as well to take care of that problem.

No. The beams only hit Way Big, so we'll never know.

@metaljimmor: street level? Ben's heavy hitters are far more effective than DCs big hitters lol

chronosapien time rays defeat like half the team

@reaverlation: how do they blitz? Ben stops time. He checks wondy out and then ages them to dust.

@metaljimmor: has superman shown resistance to being aged into dust?