#1 Edited by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC: Batman, Cassandra Cain, Green Arrow, Ozymandias, Nightwing

Team Marvel: Black Panther, Captain America, Daredevil, Punisher, Winter Soldier

All DC characters pre-52. Standard gear for all, in character.

No prep, basic knowledge of opponents. Teams start 200m apart in the middle of a bombed-out city:

Edit: Ok, I swapped out Blue Beetle and put in Cassandra Cain.

Who wins?

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#2 Posted by _slim_ (13269 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Marvel.

#3 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

Blue Beetle is street level?

#4 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna go with Marvel.

#5 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

Blue Beetle is street level?

Ted Kord Blue Beetle.

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#6 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: I haven't read any comics with Kord, so I don't know.

#7 Posted by agentxx (2533 posts) - - Show Bio

Winter Soldier solo's spite.

#8 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

@WillPayton: I haven't read any comics with Kord, so I don't know.

He was in the Justice League. He has genius-level intelligence (said to be at or greater than Batman). He's a scientist and engineer, he actually created a powered armor for Booster Gold that was pretty nice. Olympic-level acrobat and skilled martial artist. Has various gadgets including a hand-held weapon that shoots some kind of compressed air blasts (powerful enough to stop a charging rhino) and blinding flashes of light.

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#9 Posted by Strafe Prower (11887 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton: Thanks for the info!

#10 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

@_slim_ said:

Team Marvel.
#11 Posted by agentxx (2533 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gazenfortos said:

@agentxx said:

Winter Soldier solo's spite.

You're retarded

#12 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@agentxx said:

Winter Soldier solo's spite.

???

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#13 Posted by agentxx (2533 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton:Pretty sure he's more skilled than everyone here except batman, he could take on everybody except batman.

#14 Posted by Haaydrian (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strafe Prower said:

Blue Beetle is street level?

I know this has been answered, but... Kord is completely human. He's got an amazing ship and is a genius level intellect. However, his appearances in BoP left me yearning for more as he seemed out of shape after having reformed from the Hero game. So meh.

Batman's the best fighter on here, but Team Marvel has a higher level of ability all around so they end up taking this. I'm mostly dismissing Ozymandias, I saw the movie and have seen some scans, but apart from hitting someone with an object and dodging (was it parrying?) a bullet, I can't remember anything that'd give him an edge in a fistacuffs, so if anyone thinks he can change the tide of the battle -- so to speak, feel free to correct me.

#15 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@Haaydrian said:

I'm mostly dismissing Ozymandias, I saw the movie and have seen some scans, but apart from hitting someone with an object and dodging (was it parrying?) a bullet, I can't remember anything that'd give him an edge in a fistacuffs, so if anyone thinks he can change the tide of the battle -- so to speak, feel free to correct me.

He caught a bullet in his hand at point-blank range, and just generally had super-human reflexes, strength, and genius-level intelligence. I dont think you should dismiss him.

I'm surprised the DC team is being downplayed here. They easily have the intelligence advantage over team Marvel.

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#16 Posted by Haaydrian (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

He caught a bullet in his hand at point-blank range, and just generally had super-human reflexes, strength, and genius-level intelligence. I dont think you should dismiss him.

When I say "dismiss", I'm not saying that he's incapable of anything, simply that he isn't up to par to change what the other 4 by themselves. Like you said, he caught a bullet in his hand point blank which is an impressive feat in terms of stats, but we need feat in terms of fighting ability before he can challenge the likes of Black Panther, Daredevil and Captain America -- to my knowledge he doesn't have any or at least any that put him on par. So while reflexes are nice, it doesn't do anything for team DC.

I'm surprised the DC team is being downplayed here. They easily have the intelligence advantage over team Marvel.

They do, but without prep I don't see them doing anything with it. They have basic knowledge, so Ozymandias making a strategy seems unlikely, especially with no extra time to think it through before having to engage the enemy team. Blue Beetle's scientific knowledge will be in vain and Batman, whilst being able to formulate tactics -- especially with his gadgets, can't do much more.

Thus, I don't think that DC can use their intelligence in any manner that would allow them to win the fight.

#17 Posted by thespideyguy (2642 posts) - - Show Bio

morals on or off  
morals on marvel 
morals off dc

#18 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@Haaydrian said:

@WillPayton said:

He caught a bullet in his hand at point-blank range, and just generally had super-human reflexes, strength, and genius-level intelligence. I dont think you should dismiss him.

When I say "dismiss", I'm not saying that he's incapable of anything, simply that he isn't up to par to change what the other 4 by themselves. Like you said, he caught a bullet in his hand point blank which is an impressive feat in terms of stats, but we need feat in terms of fighting ability before he can challenge the likes of Black Panther, Daredevil and Captain America -- to my knowledge he doesn't have any or at least any that put him on par. So while reflexes are nice, it doesn't do anything for team DC.

I'm surprised the DC team is being downplayed here. They easily have the intelligence advantage over team Marvel.

They do, but without prep I don't see them doing anything with it. They have basic knowledge, so Ozymandias making a strategy seems unlikely, especially with no extra time to think it through before having to engage the enemy team. Blue Beetle's scientific knowledge will be in vain and Batman, whilst being able to formulate tactics -- especially with his gadgets, can't do much more.

Thus, I don't think that DC can use their intelligence in any manner that would allow them to win the fight.

I think a h2h fight between Ozy and Cap would be a close one. Remember, Ozy easily defeated Rorschach and Night Owl, both of whom could easily defeat multiple opponents on their own. And, by easily, I mean very easily.

It's true they dont have any pre-fight prep, but they also dont have to engage right away. Starting 200m apart in an urban environment means they have some flexibility and room to maneuver. I think with the strategic and tactical minds of Ozy and Batman, as well as some significant stealth skills, this makes them a serious threat.

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#19 Posted by Haaydrian (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

/

I think a h2h fight between Ozy and Cap would be a close one. Remember, Ozy easily defeated Rorschach and Night Owl, both of whom could easily defeat multiple opponents on their own. And, by easily, I mean very easily.

It's true they dont have any pre-fight prep, but they also dont have to engage right away. Starting 200m apart in an urban environment means they have some flexibility and room to maneuver. I think with the strategic and tactical minds of Ozy and Batman, as well as some significant stealth skills, this makes them a serious threat.

Yeah, but Rorschach and Night Owl defeated fodder, nothing more. There's nothing to put them on the level of people here.

Yes they do, but not enough that would allow them to actually do anything that can change the wave of combat.

#20 Posted by ThexX (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Marvel Wins.

#21 Posted by robertloucksjr (1779 posts) - - Show Bio

@agentxx said:

@WillPayton:Pretty sure he's more skilled than everyone here except batman, he could take on everybody except batman.

Then he also can't take Captain America/Daredevil/Black Panther.

#22 Posted by darktiger (4622 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

Team DC: Batman, Blue Beetle (Kord), Green Arrow, Ozymandias, Nightwing

Team Marvel: Black Panther, Captain America, Daredevil, Punisher, Winter Soldier

All DC characters pre-52. Standard gear for all, in character.

No prep, basic knowledge of opponents. Teams start 200m apart in the middle of a bombed-out city:

Who wins?

Ted kord can't even fight that good,he is never described as great or excellent not even good just describes as a capable hand to hand combatant,you need some better combatant for dc I can help you set it up

#23 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, ok... to make it more fair I swapped out Blue Beetle and put in Cassandra Cain in his place.

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#24 Posted by sync1 (2980 posts) - - Show Bio

I say Team DC stomps

#25 Edited by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther's suit puts him over the level of the DC team in terms of physical ability. Captain America is also not fair in that you didn't give DC a comparable match.

As it stands, Marvel wins (finally), but only in a mismatched fight.

To make it a bit more fair, you'd have to strip all equipment and make it a H2H.

Punisher also neesd to have no access to guns.

This is heaaaaavily mismatched in Marvel's favor.

#26 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

Black Panther's suit puts him over the level of the DC team in terms of physical ability. Captain America is also not fair in that you didn't give DC a comparable match.

As it stands, Marvel wins (finally), but only in a mismatched fight.

To make it a bit more fair, you'd have to strip all equipment and make it a H2H.

Punisher also neesd to have no access to guns.

This is heaaaaavily mismatched in Marvel's favor.

The DC team has quite a bit of experience dealing with people with guns. Also, since they have basic knowledge of the opponents, they're not going to stand out in the open and get shot at.

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#27 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

Black Panther's suit puts him over the level of the DC team in terms of physical ability. Captain America is also not fair in that you didn't give DC a comparable match.

As it stands, Marvel wins (finally), but only in a mismatched fight.

To make it a bit more fair, you'd have to strip all equipment and make it a H2H.

Punisher also neesd to have no access to guns.

This is heaaaaavily mismatched in Marvel's favor.

The DC team has quite a bit of experience dealing with people with guns. Also, since they have basic knowledge of the opponents, they're not going to stand out in the open and get shot at.

Now address the other equipment issues.

Although, I disagree. It's not balanced.

#28 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight but I'm goin with team marvel

#29 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

Black Panther's suit puts him over the level of the DC team in terms of physical ability. Captain America is also not fair in that you didn't give DC a comparable match.

As it stands, Marvel wins (finally), but only in a mismatched fight.

To make it a bit more fair, you'd have to strip all equipment and make it a H2H.

Punisher also neesd to have no access to guns.

This is heaaaaavily mismatched in Marvel's favor.

The DC team has quite a bit of experience dealing with people with guns. Also, since they have basic knowledge of the opponents, they're not going to stand out in the open and get shot at.

Now address the other equipment issues.

Although, I disagree. It's not balanced.

It's not meant to be a h2h fight, there's already too many h2h fights on here. Also, even team fights usually end up being 1-on-1 matchups, at least the way people usually view them on this forum. This is meant to be a true team fight, with each team having their own strengths and weaknesses. Team DC has more intelligence and stealth, and team Marvel has more firepower. In any case, the environment and starting distance means that just looking at one aspect is not a good way to view the fight.

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#30 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

Black Panther's suit puts him over the level of the DC team in terms of physical ability. Captain America is also not fair in that you didn't give DC a comparable match.

As it stands, Marvel wins (finally), but only in a mismatched fight.

To make it a bit more fair, you'd have to strip all equipment and make it a H2H.

Punisher also neesd to have no access to guns.

This is heaaaaavily mismatched in Marvel's favor.

The DC team has quite a bit of experience dealing with people with guns. Also, since they have basic knowledge of the opponents, they're not going to stand out in the open and get shot at.

Now address the other equipment issues.

Although, I disagree. It's not balanced.

It's not meant to be a h2h fight, there's already too many h2h fights on here. Also, even team fights usually end up being 1-on-1 matchups, at least the way people usually view them on this forum. This is meant to be a true team fight, with each team having their own strengths and weaknesses. Team DC has more intelligence and stealth, and team Marvel has more firepower. In any case, the environment and starting distance means that just looking at one aspect is not a good way to view the fight.

So the DC team starts out 200 meter away. The Marvel team starts out with two characters with munitions.

If anything, starting far away is an even bigger disadvantage to the DC team.

It's not balanced.

I understand your intentions, but the execution is flawed.

#31 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

So the DC team starts out 200 meter away. The Marvel team starts out with two characters with munitions.

If anything, starting far away is an even bigger disadvantage to the DC team.

It's not balanced.

I understand your intentions, but the execution is flawed.

Yes, 200 meters away in an urban environment, with lots of rubble and buildings around. That means that they're not even starting in line-of-sight. That's why I put in that photo. In that environment you might not even see someone 100 meters way, much less 200. It'd definitely be unfair if I put them that far away in a flat open space, cause they'd get wasted.

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#32 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

So the DC team starts out 200 meter away. The Marvel team starts out with two characters with munitions.

If anything, starting far away is an even bigger disadvantage to the DC team.

It's not balanced.

I understand your intentions, but the execution is flawed.

Yes, 200 meters away in an urban environment, with lots of rubble and buildings around. That means that they're not even starting in line-of-sight. That's why I put in that photo. In that environment you might not even see someone 100 meters way, much less 200. It'd definitely be unfair if I put them that far away in a flat open space, cause they'd get wasted.

Pretty sure Winter Soldier is good with a sniper rifle, as is Punisher. Also, they have access to explosives, etc. Being under cover would probably just get them buried.

You need to give DC some sort of ranged character for it to be fair. One "good" one or two, to make it even.

#33 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

So the DC team starts out 200 meter away. The Marvel team starts out with two characters with munitions.

If anything, starting far away is an even bigger disadvantage to the DC team.

It's not balanced.

I understand your intentions, but the execution is flawed.

Yes, 200 meters away in an urban environment, with lots of rubble and buildings around. That means that they're not even starting in line-of-sight. That's why I put in that photo. In that environment you might not even see someone 100 meters way, much less 200. It'd definitely be unfair if I put them that far away in a flat open space, cause they'd get wasted.

Pretty sure Winter Soldier is good with a sniper rifle, as is Punisher. Also, they have access to explosives, etc. Being under cover would probably just get them buried.

You need to give DC some sort of ranged character for it to be fair. One "good" one or two, to make it even.

We can agree to disagree. I dont want a battle with just a bunch of people with guns shooting at each other. I'm happy with the setup as is... both teams have different skills and strengths, and the environment allows them to try to leverage those. 200m is a very long distance, especially when you have mounds of rubble and buildings in the way. And, of course, team Marvel has 2 good snipers, but team DC has people who are expert at defeating even the best shooters.

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#34 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

So the DC team starts out 200 meter away. The Marvel team starts out with two characters with munitions.

If anything, starting far away is an even bigger disadvantage to the DC team.

It's not balanced.

I understand your intentions, but the execution is flawed.

Yes, 200 meters away in an urban environment, with lots of rubble and buildings around. That means that they're not even starting in line-of-sight. That's why I put in that photo. In that environment you might not even see someone 100 meters way, much less 200. It'd definitely be unfair if I put them that far away in a flat open space, cause they'd get wasted.

Pretty sure Winter Soldier is good with a sniper rifle, as is Punisher. Also, they have access to explosives, etc. Being under cover would probably just get them buried.

You need to give DC some sort of ranged character for it to be fair. One "good" one or two, to make it even.

We can agree to disagree. I dont want a battle with just a bunch of people with guns shooting at each other. I'm happy with the setup as is... both teams have different skills and strengths, and the environment allows them to try to leverage those. 200m is a very long distance, especially when you have mounds of rubble and buildings in the way. And, of course, team Marvel has 2 good snipers, but team DC has people who are expert at defeating even the best shooters.

Best shooters.

Like who?

Generic thugs with guns and minor villains with guns, with unquantified skill with said guns, are nothing to the Punisher or Winter Soldier.

It's not balanced.

Do what you want.

#35 Posted by WillPayton (9559 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

We can agree to disagree. I dont want a battle with just a bunch of people with guns shooting at each other. I'm happy with the setup as is... both teams have different skills and strengths, and the environment allows them to try to leverage those. 200m is a very long distance, especially when you have mounds of rubble and buildings in the way. And, of course, team Marvel has 2 good snipers, but team DC has people who are expert at defeating even the best shooters.

Best shooters.

Like who?

Generic thugs with guns and minor villains with guns, with unquantified skill with said guns, are nothing to the Punisher or Winter Soldier.

Like Deadshot? He's not exactly a "generic thug" with a gun.

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#36 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@WillPayton said:

@greenteaforme said:

We can agree to disagree. I dont want a battle with just a bunch of people with guns shooting at each other. I'm happy with the setup as is... both teams have different skills and strengths, and the environment allows them to try to leverage those. 200m is a very long distance, especially when you have mounds of rubble and buildings in the way. And, of course, team Marvel has 2 good snipers, but team DC has people who are expert at defeating even the best shooters.

Best shooters.

Like who?

Generic thugs with guns and minor villains with guns, with unquantified skill with said guns, are nothing to the Punisher or Winter Soldier.

Like Deadshot? He's not exactly a "generic thug" with a gun.

You're telling me, say, Nightwing has started 200m away from Deadshot, with Deadshot aware of his presence and armed and gradually just walked towards him, hiding behind rubble, and Deadshot has just sat there, getting jumped on and lost?

I don't believe it.

#37 Posted by agentxx (2533 posts) - - Show Bio

@robertloucksjr said:

@agentxx said:

@WillPayton:Pretty sure he's more skilled than everyone here except batman, he could take on everybody except batman.

Then he also can't take Captain America/Daredevil/Black Panther.

Pretty sure he could solo team DC except batman that's what I meant.

#38 Posted by Alexander505 (2165 posts) - - Show Bio

Team DC

#39 Posted by Haaydrian (173 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

You're telling me, say, Nightwing has started 200m away from Deadshot, with Deadshot aware of his presence and armed and gradually just walked towards him, hiding behind rubble, and Deadshot has just sat there, getting jumped on and lost?

I don't believe it.

Not to mention the fact that Deadshot has a major hard-on for Bats which means that he's constantly holding back against him.

#40 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with 200ms, Daredevil might be able to hear any plan they try and formulate.

#41 Posted by TheGraySon (457 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel has enhanced members like Cap and BP plus they have guns. It just doesnt seem fair. I get they dodge bullets in their own comics, but thats usually street thugs. Nightwing got shot on like 3 separate occasions in his own series. None of them were skilled marksmen. Having both BP and Cap with range fire is just too much.. Either switch one of those two out or give DC someone with enhanced stats.

#42 Posted by YoungJustice (6877 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Marvel

#43 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThexX said:

Team Marvel Wins.

#44 Posted by MrBelvidere (3 posts) - - Show Bio

I have to say team Marvel. Black Panther and DD both have uber senses and could probably detect anything too sneaky. Ozy would be relatively useless without prep time seeing as we dont know many of his skills outside of catching bullets. I see it as this, BP would single out Batman and beat him, DD and Cap would double team Cassandra, Punisher and winter would gun down ozy quickly, so theyd go on to distract nightwing until everyone else finishes. Then they'll beat the crap out of him.

#45 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

A nice suggestion, replace Black Panther with Night Thrasher. It'd make it much fairer, without removing Marvel team's possible victory.

#46 Posted by CaptainDoeo (789 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump?

#47 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel Team has powers and enhanced stats +senses.

DC Team either needs the same types of members or Marvel needs a new lineup.

#48 Posted by Postacrat (499 posts) - - Show Bio

DC win's, Ozymandiaz is being underestimated due to a technicality he's only been in one series. Captain America and Black Panther aren't the only peak human's in this fight. I think it's a fair match up, with DC coming out on top.