#1 Posted by HushoftheWind (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Bat

  • Batman
  • Nightwing
  • Red Hood
  • Red Robin
  • Batwing
  • Azrael (Michael Lane)

Team Cap

  • Captain America
  • Daredevil
  • Winter Soldier
  • Patriot
  • Falcon
  • U.S. Agent

Rules: All heroes all in character. All gadget characters a carrying standard equipment, except for Batman. Batman is carrying all his gadgets and detective mode from the Arkham games and nerve toxins. All DC characters are in their New 52 attire, but still have all the experience and feats from post New 52 and New 52. All Marvel characters have their standard equipment. Each time has perfected their teamwork. KO for victory

Location: Gotham and nightfall approaches.

Disclaimer: Please give good excuses to why what team would win if you can.

Fight!!!

#2 Posted by ygoox (62 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's see...

We all know that Cap can beat Bats,he is slightly better(physically) and have more stamina,but (as Bruce said) would take a long time. This is a team fight, so Bruce only have to hold him for a little.

Nightwing would beat DD, he would figure out his super senses and take advantage on that, plus he is pretty much as agile as DD(if not better, actually) and more skilled in H2H.

Winter Soldier and Red Hood i would guess a tie, but Bucky's arm would give him the edge here.

Red Robin would loose to Patriot in a straight H2H fight, but his tech would give him the win.

Batwing would take Falcon down, better tech in his suit.

Azrael takes U.S. Agent down pretty easily.

That being said, Azareal, Batwing and Nightwing would make a major differences in this fight, once they have finished theirs opponents, they would help the team to a win.

#3 Edited by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@ygoox said:

Let's see...

We all know that Cap can beat Bats,he is slightly better(physically) and have more stamina,but (as Bruce said) would take a long time. This is a team fight, so Bruce only have to hold him for a little.

Nightwing would beat DD, he would figure out his super senses and take advantage on that, plus he is pretty much as agile as DD(if not better, actually) and more skilled in H2H.

Winter Soldier and Red Hood i would guess a tie, but Bucky's arm would give him the edge here.

Red Robin would loose to Patriot in a straight H2H fight, but his tech would give him the win.

Batwing would take Falcon down, better tech in his suit.

Azrael takes U.S. Agent down pretty easily.

That being said, Azareal, Batwing and Nightwing would make a major differences in this fight, once they have finished theirs opponents, they would help the team to a win.

@ygoox: This.

#4 Posted by Strider92 (16605 posts) - - Show Bio

No-one on Caps team is putting down Lane his durability is ridiculous. Team Bat wins.

#5 Posted by Needlebay (1938 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone have any scans of Azrael's durability?

#6 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

@ygoox said:

Let's see...

We all know that Cap can beat Bats,he is slightly better(physically) and have more stamina,but (as Bruce said) would take a long time. This is a team fight, so Bruce only have to hold him for a little.

Nightwing would beat DD, he would figure out his super senses and take advantage on that, plus he is pretty much as agile as DD(if not better, actually) and more skilled in H2H.

Winter Soldier and Red Hood i would guess a tie, but Bucky's arm would give him the edge here.

Red Robin would loose to Patriot in a straight H2H fight, but his tech would give him the win.

Batwing would take Falcon down, better tech in his suit.

Azrael takes U.S. Agent down pretty easily.

That being said, Azareal, Batwing and Nightwing would make a major differences in this fight, once they have finished theirs opponents, they would help the team to a win.

@ygoox: This.

Not this. Nightwing isn't beating Daredevil. Assuming he would just figure out Matt is blind in mid combat, and with other people around to boot, is reaching and Matt is simply more skilled. Why people assume Nightwing is more, I have no idea when his showings suggest otherwise. Nightwing isn't even more skilled than Bucky who isn't more skilled than Daredevil. So that automatically kicks out the idea Jason would tie with Bucky at all since Jason isn't on Nightwing's level skillwise (can give him a great fight but that is it.) And Batman isn't so far behind Cap statwise that his skill and tech can make up for it and hold him long enough. And stamina makes no difference since these guys can fight for a day with no problem.

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#7 Edited by Strider92 (16605 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

Does anyone have any scans of Azrael's durability?

He took an RPG rocket head on without a scratch:

#8 Posted by Sylvain (1640 posts) - - Show Bio

i'll go with Team Bat

#9 Posted by ygoox (62 posts) - - Show Bio

Nightwing isn't beating Daredevil. Assuming he would just figure out Matt is blind in mid combat, and with other people around to boot, is reaching and Matt is simply more skilled. Why people assume Nightwing is more, I have no idea when his showings suggest otherwise. Nightwing isn't even more skilled than Bucky who isn't more skilled than Daredevil.

Not talking about the blind thing, but his super hearing, that can(and already has) been used against him very effectively. Nightwing can figure that out and will use that to subdue him. Yeah, DD is skilled at H2H, Nightwing can keep up with Bruce in H2H(not win, keep up) and Bruce is crazy way more skilled than DD. Not to mention that Dick is more agile.

So that automatically kicks out the idea Jason would tie with Bucky at all since Jason isn't on Nightwing's level skillwise (can give him a great fight but that is it.

Yeah, no. Jason is way more skilled than you think. He did the same thing as Bruce(the training around the world, thing) and even stalemate him one time(sure, bats was holding back, but the gap skillwise between Bucky and Bats is pretty huge) . Jason is more that Bucky can handles, skillwise.

And Batman isn't so far behind Cap statwise that his skill and tech can make up for it and hold him long enough. And stamina makes no difference since these guys can fight for a day with no problem.

I just said that, din't i?

And no, Bruce can't fight at his peak 24hrs straight, and correct me if i'm wrong, but Steve can do that.

#10 Posted by Needlebay (1938 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@Needlebay said:

Does anyone have any scans of Azrael's durability?

He took an RPG rocket head on without a scratch:

NICE! Thanks for the scan.

#11 Posted by PsychoJack (174 posts) - - Show Bio

It can go both ways but Cap has an advantage for being stronger, faster, more durable and having more stamina and endurance. But it be a tough fight. I think US Agent is stronger than Azrael, not too sure. I know US Agent can lift 10 tons.

#12 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@HushoftheWind: I recommend replacing Michal lane with someone else. I would recommend Jean-Paul Valley or cassandra cain if you want a top tier personally. I think Lane is to much.

@ygoox: Explain how nightwing figures out daredevil is blind? And I recommend checking out the Bucky Barnes Respect Thread. The person who made it put a lot of effort in it and there are a lot of feats in there that put Bucky beyond Jason.

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#13 Edited by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@ygoox:

Not talking about the blind thing, but his super hearing, that can(and already has) been used against him very effectively. Nightwing can figure that out and will use that to subdue him. Yeah, DD is skilled at H2H, Nightwing can keep up with Bruce in H2H(not win, keep up) and Bruce is crazy way more skilled than DD. Not to mention that Dick is more agile.

No he can't and he won't figure it out. Just because he has super hearing doesn't mean Dick will just pull out the right gadgets without prior knowledge and chances are Daredevil won't let him. Dick isn't even Steve Roger level of skill and Daredevil has been able to fight him just fine despite a stat edge. And what are you talking about? No Dick isn't even close to Batman. He won't even touch him if Bruce doesn't let him and Dick isn't more agile at all than Daredevil if that is who you are referring to.

He can't lay a hand on Bruce. So no, Dick is not remotely close and has no showings to suggest it so don't say otherwise.

Yeah, no. Jason is way more skilled than you think. He did the same thing as Bruce(the training around the world, thing) and even stalemate him one time(sure, bats was holding back, but the gap skillwise between Bucky and Bats is pretty huge) . Jason is more that Bucky can handles, skillwise.

The skill gap between between Bucky and Bruce is shorter than Jason and Bruce. Traveling around the world is irrelevant since his feats do not match up. Jason's best showings involve beating up a teenage Dick Grayson and giving Nightwing a good fight. He never "stalemated" Bruce since he only managed to give him a decent fight then ended up getting decimated by him so it isn't a usable feat. . Bucky has at least consistently proven himself capable of beating Cap's more skilled opponents like Crossbones multiple times and Crossbones with extra help. Batroc. And 50's Cap who is 6x Bucky's statistical superior. Nightwing can't say the same let alone Jason.

I just said that, din't i?
And no, Bruce can't fight at his peak 24hrs straight, and correct me if i'm wrong, but Steve can do that.

That was my fault. I meant to say his stats and tech is more than enough to beat Cap. He doesn't need the team to do so and even then, crossover books aren't the most trusting so I take Batman's statement with a grain of salt vs his decades worth of showings. And Batman and other streets have fought for days with little to no sleep so the stamina point is irrelevant all together whether they are at peak performance or not. The fight isn't lasting hours so no reason to pretend it will and bring it up.

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#14 Posted by Shawnbaby (10802 posts) - - Show Bio

Azrael's presence kinda makes this a little one-sided. Should replace him with someone a bit more street levelly.

#15 Posted by Needlebay (1938 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it was shown in a recent issue of Red Hood that Jason took down Batman. Though, it wasn't exactly shown how. He has trained under the All Caste, which are the world's most dangerous and oldest assassins.

#16 Posted by ygoox (62 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, while Nightwing is not on pair with Bruce in the Detective area, he is pretty good at that. I remember seeing he deducing the identity(or location, not sure) of the "Most Wanted" while recovering from some injuries, just by watching TV. I think is safe enough to assume that figure out the super senses of a opponent is pretty easy.

About that tread, i'll read it.

#17 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@ygoox said:

Well, while Nightwing is not on pair with Bruce in the Detective area, he is pretty good at that. I remember seeing he deducing the identity(or location, not sure) of the "Most Wanted" while recovering from some injuries, just by watching TV. I think is safe enough to assume that figure out the super senses of a opponent is pretty easy.

About that tread, i'll read it.

Its not that easy. Daredevil doesn't just go around saying he has enhanced senses and in this setup nightwing hasn't even heard of daredevil. Besides by the time he figures it out he is all ready going to be melee with daredevil and Murdock is going to take him down eventually in a decent fight. He has better skill and IMO far better reflexes then nightwing.

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#18 Posted by HushoftheWind (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly dont think Steve is going to "handle" Bruce in a fight. Maybe, just maybe hand to hand, but not in a "fight." Cap is damn good fighter and reading his opponents, that's what makes him a top tier fighter, not knowing every single style and technique. Im going to digress for a minute but there's no way in hell Cap knows half the fighting skill of say Wolverine and Batman, he hasn't trained as long as them. And as far a durability and endurance, im pretty sure Bats has gone 3 or 4 nights straight with no sleep and still was able to be at his best. Honestly i think the Cap and Bat fight has too many variables to decide of attributes alone, they are too similar and their feats rival each other as far as street levelers go. But i think you guys forget that, these guys are actually teaming here. I mean sure you can go with the 1v1s, but at the end of the day i think the better employed team work is gonna win. I really think Wayne, Grayson, Todd, and Drake is a formidable team as is and with Red Robin being air mobile now, i wouldnt be surprise if he and Batwing mop falcon real quick so Cap's team doesn't have air survey.

#19 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@HushoftheWind: Training length has nothing to do with fighting skill. And Cap has proven more than enough he can give Logan a solid fight. Also important to note his SSS lets him learn things much faster. Hence why he was able to learn so many styles in such a short time. He has been stated to know every style (while I don't believe it and he really doesn't but definitely knows enough) and has shown to effectively use pressure points in the past. While I agree he isn't as skilled as Batman or Wolverine (and may not be as technical or methodical as Bruce and Logan like having the extensive pressure point knowledge like Bruce knowing or Logan knowing even alien ones), saying he has half the skill as them is belittling him.

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#20 Posted by Skaddix (3114 posts) - - Show Bio

Lane unbalances this fight.

#21 Posted by HushoftheWind (1023 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: im not belittling Cap at all, im sorry if it sounds like i did b/c i damn sure didnt mean too. Hell i love Cap, i main him in UMVC3 with Iron Fist and Strange on his team. BUT, i just can't give him the fighting skill benefit of the doubt like Bats, Wolvie, and either Black Panther( who also wanted to put in this battle along with Moon Knight along with Guardian and Catman for DC, but i thought that would be over doing it). I just think that Batman trickery might get the best of Cap. As far as fighting goes these two minds are gdlk, but add high intelligence to that would be even better, which Bats has. With that being said, do i think Cap is top 3 fighters in Marvel U? Yes. Do i think there should be others ahead him? Yes. Who? Iron Fist, Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Daredevil, Black Panther, just to name a few. Yes i know, Cap has beaten pretty much all those characters at some point, but i just think it would be better for those characters should maybe win a fight or two against Cap to push to a realistic level of a street leveler. Right now, i dont see ANY street leveler that can beat Cap in Marvel.

#22 Posted by Saren (25694 posts) - - Show Bio

Lane could solo.

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#23 Posted by Skaddix (3114 posts) - - Show Bio

@HushoftheWind said:

@god_spawn: im not belittling Cap at all, im sorry if it sounds like i did b/c i damn sure didnt mean too. Hell i love Cap, i main him in UMVC3 with Iron Fist and Strange on his team. BUT, i just can't give him the fighting skill benefit of the doubt like Bats, Wolvie, and either Black Panther( who also wanted to put in this battle along with Moon Knight along with Guardian and Catman for DC, but i thought that would be over doing it). I just think that Batman trickery might get the best of Cap. As far as fighting goes these two minds are gdlk, but add high intelligence to that would be even better, which Bats has. With that being said, do i think Cap is top 3 fighters in Marvel U? Yes. Do i think there should be others ahead him? Yes. Who? Iron Fist, Black Widow, Shang Chi, and Daredevil, Black Panther, just to name a few. Yes i know, Cap has beaten pretty much all those characters at some point, but i just think it would be better for those characters should maybe win a fight or two against Cap to push to a realistic level of a street leveler. Right now, i dont see ANY street leveler that can beat Cap in Marvel.

say what? Depends on what you define as street level I suppose but I think Iron Fist and Black Panther would take him. Gorgon and Spider-man would clean his clock. Wolverine of course springs to mind.

#24 Posted by God_Spawn (37950 posts) - - Show Bio

@HushoftheWind: Of the people you named, only T'Challa, Daredevil, and Iron Fist are on par or better than Cap. Shang-Chi is mediocre. Wolverine walked all over him and Black Widow isn't beating him either.

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#25 Posted by TDK_1997 (14899 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll go with Team Bat because of Lane.I can't see who is going to stop him from Team Cap.

#26 Posted by Saren (25694 posts) - - Show Bio

There is actually a better feat of Lane's durability where he tanked an inferno so hot it turned the sand he was standing on into glass.

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#27 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@HushoftheWind:

You give Cap's team US agent? we all know half of Bat's team can solo a SWAT team... It's basically 6 vs 5 , in Bat's favor.

#28 Posted by dondave (37971 posts) - - Show Bio

Bat-Team ftw

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#29 Posted by darkelf35 (518 posts) - - Show Bio

batman always

#30 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap and Bucky would take out the entire Bat-Family by themselves, not to mention DD...but including Azrael makes it a bit lopsided... But seeing as they have Falcon and U.S. Agent...team cap takes it... Batman is so overrated now days, it's not even funny. People think he's able to beat ANYONE when in reality he's got his butt kicked MANY times (I know this because I'm a big fan of the Batman) I doubt he'd be able to beat even Daredevil, especially not Captain America, Deathstroke or Wolverine.

#31 Posted by jackofspades (1860 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan said:

@HushoftheWind:

You give Cap's team US agent? we all know half of Bat's team can solo a SWAT team... It's basically 6 vs 5 , in Bat's favor.

right put in black panther then its a fight

#32 Posted by entropy_aegis (15338 posts) - - Show Bio

@Needlebay said:

I think it was shown in a recent issue of Red Hood that Jason took down Batman. Though, it wasn't exactly shown how. He has trained under the All Caste, which are the world's most dangerous and oldest assassins.

Off panel and what has the All-Caste done in the fighting skills department?

#33 Posted by Bo88gdan (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

Team America

#34 Posted by Needlebay (1938 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Needlebay said:

I think it was shown in a recent issue of Red Hood that Jason took down Batman. Though, it wasn't exactly shown how. He has trained under the All Caste, which are the world's most dangerous and oldest assassins.

Off panel and what has the All-Caste done in the fighting skills department?

Yes, which is why I said we don't know how. All Caste are near immortal beings and have lived for years and even though we haven't seen much, they did train Essence and can fight even while unconscious.

#35 Posted by emmbro30 (249 posts) - - Show Bio

As much as I hate to admit it, I think team Bat wins this. U.S.Agent is too much of a loose cannon. Falcon's tech is too far below Batwing, and Patriot is far too head strong. This fight would depend too heavily on Cap and Winter Soldier.

#36 Posted by Nefarious (20626 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Batman.

#37 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@JJ62:

Cap and Bucky would take out the entire Bat-Family by themselves

You mean with with Batman himself in the team? No. Cap. will pounds Bat's a$$... but the whole Bat's Family is too much for just Rogers and Bucky.

Batman is so overrated now days, it's not even funny. People think he's able to beat ANYONE when in reality he's got his butt kicked MANY times

QFT.

btw, i have done a poll about "The Most Overrated Character" go check it out, thanks.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion/1/the-most-overrated-fiction-character-street-level/743759/#1

#38 Edited by Omnicrono (1848 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Team Bat.

New 52 Batman definitely seems like he has received even more of a boost to his physical stats than before (check out the Batman Respect thread here on ComicVine), meaning I will take him over Captain America any day of the week. Especially if Bats has some of his gear and the battle takes place in his backyard (Gotham).

That out of the way, there's really no way the remaining Team Cap is overcoming the rest of Team Bat.

#39 Posted by Skaddix (3114 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Bat. No on Team Cap is a match for Lane.