Team Avatar versus the Homunculi

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Ancient_0f_Days

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That is probably the hottest Toph pic I've ever seen...(Just appreciating the artwork, keep your minds out of the gutter)

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deactivated-63665f9fbd262

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@baron_von_santa:

1. The speed of thought is roughly 250mph where the speed of sound clocks in at 767mph.

"One function of action potentials is rapid, long-range signaling within the organism; the conduction velocity can exceed 110 m/s, which is one-third the speed of sound"

And bullets are known to Travel faster then Sound, especially long ranged rifles that the soldiers are using. And he dances around their bullets like nothing.

So yeah he is faster

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2. Yeah he did since there was air on the other dimension when Ed and Ling got there. And it's stated that he swallows Anything that gets caught in the radius, even swallowed fire when it was in motion.

3. Show me where he got blown to bits by a mere grenade while i put this here.

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Yupp, i'm totally making stuff up..

4. Then she would heal and cut trough the stone like it was butter and charge her, then everything Toph throws at her will just be destroyed. Toph doesn't have anything to hold her down for long.

5. I'll need some feats showings since i don't remember that myself. And in the meantime..

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While fire benders shoot fire Mustang creates firestorms that last for seconds, probably the only reason why he could burn out their healing so fast. Nothing has been shown remotely to say that the fire benders are greater at this. (Not to my memory of the Animated Series anyway)

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@dewin50

Good showings but I still think Avatar takes this as long as

A. They are in this formation

No Caption Provided

B. They are bending to the best of their abilities.

C. The homunculi are arrogant/in character.

D. Gluttony is too stupid to just pull his whole eating everyone card out right off the bat/in character.

E. Team Avatar is working together and NOT going one on one.

Here's how I think it would go.

First off, Greed is a non factor. The minute he pulls out his Ultimate Shield, which he will because he cannot just tank the platoons of elements heading out in every direction without it, someone will yell to Toph that this guy just turned himself into a really hard metal. Toph will then smirk and bend the guy into a cube.

Sloth isn't doing anything in the beginning because he will decide that fighting is "too much work"and the other Homunculi are arrogant enough to believe they don't need him to take down "pathetic creatures" like humans.

Gluttony is next to be taken out since he has the weakest reserves (he's the only Homunculi that was actually told to leave a fight because he was about to be killed permanently). Plus, he has no regard for strategy and will probably be the one most focused on since he will be the idiot charging at the circle. Heck, Azula and Zuko can just nuke him with lightning and fire over and over while the others focus on keeping the other Homunculi off balance and at a distance, which they certainly can. Toph is Bumi level and freaking surrounded by earth. Iroh is in the sunlight (minor boost), fighting all out (his fire breached the inner wall of Ba Sing Se, which was previously only possible with a huge motorized drill that took hours if I'm not mistaken) and a White Lotus. Both are out for blood. NOBODY is getting past those two easily, and that's without Katara making giant ice walls and tidal waves everywhere.

Lust is next. She has no particularly impressive speed feats IIRC and can easily be kept off balance by the others. Once Gluttony is done, she's gone since she's the second most dangerous in the bender's eyes (she could potentially take out the blind Toph and they WILL realize this).

Envy takes a huge handicap by not having his true form available. Without that, he's tough but not untouchable. They can dodge his tendrils. He's gone.

Bradley WILL speed blitz Iroh (the biggest threat). Will this take out Iroh? Idk. We've never seen his durability. What I do know is that as soon as Toph feels how fast he's running, she'll call out to Aang, who will then create a giant air sphere to make some breathing room for everyone. This won't take out Bradley, but it WILL slow him down long enough for Toph for trap him and metalbend his swords into tiny metal balls. His Ultimate Eye is a non factor. He can predict fighting moves but it's impossible to predict Toph's earth bending with its capabilities (she performs complex maneuvers by doing minuscule motions like shifting her feet). Without his weapons, he can dodge all he wants but will eventually put off balance (Aang can do another air sphere, Toph can make an earthquake, Katara can do a tidal wave, etc.) and killed.

Sloth will probably get involved when its just him and Bradley and Envy or maybe even just him and Bradley because one of them will goad him into it.

All of them (except possibly Iroh) vs. Sloth? He can only be killed so many times.

So Team Avatar takes it after a hard, long fight.

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Baron_von_Santa

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#54  Edited By Baron_von_Santa

@dewin50: dodging bullets are different from running that fast. as seen in his last battle, a tank had time to react to him running. dodging feats can not be used for speed feats, AT ALL.

he can swallow anything in front of him. there is a difference to a omnidirectional attack.

i was talking about gluttony, my bad

you did not read my post did you, i said, toph does not need to 'throw' anything at her when she could use other attacks, like the one i listed in my previous post which you choose to ignore

rematch the white lotus fight, and azula, and the last battle between the fire lord and angggggg

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@nicksmi56: Nicely explained and analyzed.

I agree that The Homunculi wouldn't work together since it's not in their moral. But it's been awhile since i saw Avatar and i don't remember them having any exceptional teamwork feats. Iroh would probably be the only one in the team wise enough to avoid one on one confrontation and focus on teamwork at first glance, the others would probably just attack or wait for the Homunculi to strike

  • You actually pointed out a really good point that i actually didn't think about with Greed. The earth benders would be able to wreck his ultimate shield when he uses is. However he would Regen back from anything Toph or Aang would do to him. Wrath had to kill him 15+ times before he wouldn't regen anymore and he killed him with each swing of his sword. Killing Greed with Earth bending would take alot more time and effort so he wouldn't be killed off as quickly as you make it sound.
  • Sloth would complain but when someone tells him to do something he'll do it. And he would be a real danger to the Avatar team with his durability, strength and his uncontrollable speed. He would be a flying Wrecking ball (haha) in the field and anyone from the Avatar side (Except maybe Iroh) would get critically injured if they got hit.
  • I don't presume it's current Gluttony since current Gluttony is dead, eaten by Pride. Normal Gluttony has more lives then Greed had, and if you get him mad he'll use his Dimensional.... Form.... Thing... witch one-shots anybody on the team.
  • Lust wouldn't do much, except from tanking damage. Her claws (Ultimate Spear) would be fatal for anyone getting struck but i think everyone on the Avatar side is fast enough to dodge her.
  • Envy could maybe do something like hold someone with those long arms while others attack but it's against his character to teamwork so he would just end up being a meat-shield as well.
  • Bradley's Ultimate eye is NOT an Non-factor at all. He has precog on anyone he lay his eye on with it. Toph and Aang wouldn't focus on Wrath unless they they know what he's capable of, and when they've sen what he's capable of someone would be dead. And if he even catches a glare Toph trying to Earth-Bend he'd react to her faster then her actually completing the action. And no (As an awnser to @baron_von_santa) This is not Running/Travel speed. At Running speed Bradley's a bit faster then a tank. At combat-speed and Reaction he's faster then Lightning.

And your scenarios sounds like The Avatars take on each Homunculi together (Could be me misinterpreted) ,witch i don't think they would do at first, and the other Homunculi wouldn't just stand around waiting. This is an all-out battle and since it's 6v6 it would probably end in 1v1 all around the board.

And this is why The Homunculi's has the Advantage with their Durability. And the Homunculi are very durable actually, the only times the Homunculi has been killed of is either of Wrath Blitzing and cutting them up in seconds or Mustang burning their every cell simultaneously witch neither can replicated by anyone on the Avatar team.

The closest thing would be Fire/Electricity bending but i don't see it having the same destruction as Flame Alchemy.

  • Wrath would take anyone 1v1, Iroh would be the Hardest and take the longest time but he'd take it in the end.

  • Greed, Lust, Gluttony and Envy wouldn't be able to do much against anyone on the enemy team, but they wouldn't be taken out anytime soon

  • Sloth would maybe be able to take Toph and Zuko. Toph wouldn't have time to react to Sloth when he starts to Blitz and i don't remember Zuko to be too fast. (Could be wrong tough) But no one would be able to take Sloth down anytime soon. The Hardest one (Again) would be Iroh since people like Armstrong could tank hits from Sloth and Iroh always came of as Bigger and Stronger after he trained and escaped his prison.

But the thing is that as soon as Wrath takes out the one he's fighting. He'd go for the others, and then they'd be 2v1 and then he'd go and help a third Homunculi. While the Homunculi are not teamworkers they'll still help each other out if they see that is't going bad for someone. Wrath would especially since he's always serious and wants to end a fight quickly and efficiently.

And seriously i just don't see a way for anyone on the Avatar team to take wrath down on their own. Unless there's like 3+ on him he'd hold his own.

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@dewin50:

It seems like we're in the same boat. It's been a while since I've read Fullmetal Alchemist and it's been a while since you've seen Avatar XD you bring up some good points so I'll do the best I can.

Gluttony- You're going to have to refresh my memory on the difference between current and normal Gluttony since I didn't even know there were two versions. It's true that getting Gluttony mad would doom the whole team since he could just trap them in that different dimension of his. However, two things lead me to believe this won't occur:

1. Gluttony is, once again, too stupid to think of that.

2. Nothing really gets Gluttony mad. No matter how many times he's attacked/impaled/grievously injured, nothing really seems to faze him in terms of emotions. The one exception was when Lust died, but due to them being in character, Gluttony should die before Lust. Lust knows she's not really much on the physical side, so she'd probably be hanging back using her fingernails for damage. Gluttony would be the big idiot running towards the team, and due to the team not knowing what Bradley is capable of, he'd present himself as the most immediate threat, so he'd be the most targeted at the get go.

As for the teamwork of Team Avatar being not that impressive, you'd be right if you were talking about Season 1. They would mostly go one on one and Aang was a giant win button with his airbending. But midway through Season 2, that started to change. Suddenly the opponents were either too tough or too numerous for Aang to just airbend out of the way. Then the team started naturally gravitating towards teamwork, and naturally assuming the Avengers formation.

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It became second nature for them, to the point where even in their training sessions, the back to back stance came naturally. Check out this video. During their training to beat the Fire Lord, Zuko and Katara automatically assume the back to back position:

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And this one where the team (Aang, Toph and Katara) automatically assumes the circular position when invading the Earth Palace (this is also a good demonstration of their bending prowess when they were still at moderate levels):

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or to make it easier, EVERY fight the team has had as a team since they gained Toph is basically a teamwork feat. Even in the finale, Katara tells Zuko they should work together against Azula, even though he's already proven he can handle her on his own and doesn't really need her there. They're so good at teamwork that the writers had to split them up in the finale in order for there to still be a threat.

There's also the fact that Team Avatar is fighting without morals in this scenario. Team Avatar doesn't kill. Ever. It's the reason why killing only becomes an issue in the final episode. Basically, in every fight they had, they were holding back. That's right. That video above? Holding back and not even at their peak yet. Here, they're cutting loose completely and to make matters worse for the Homunculi, they're at their peak (since this takes place after the series).

I know the homunculi aren't going to stand around waiting. If I gave that impression, I apologize. I know they'll probably all charge at the same time. The thing is, though, that even if they do, they shouldn't get too far.

One other advantage that the scenario the OP sets up gives Team Avatar is that Team Avatar basically has prep. The Homunculi have been steamrolling through villages prior to this, so it's pretty much a given that the team has heard about them and that they're extremely dangerous. So they're not going to go one on one. They're going to assume the circular back to back position and focus on both defense and keeping a distance between the Homunculi and them. And if you take a look at the location, they're absolutely surrounded by earth and water. So basically we see this to the north:

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This to the south (or maybe in a circle around the entire group):

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This to the east possibly in a circle as well (only on a much larger scale since we have three master firebenders in sunlight and one of them is Iroh to boot):

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And something similar to this, only stronger since he's looking to hurt people here, (in terms of wind output, not in terms of Avatar State) to the west (or in a circle once again):

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So the Homunculi really shouldn't be gaining much ground to begin with.

I agree with you that the Homunculi's biggest advantage is their durability, but with the Avatar team basically pounding at them with these kind of attacks constantly from afar and forming an almost impenetrable defense, it no longer becomes a question of how the Avatar team beats the Homunculi, but rather how long the Homunculi can survive Team Avatar. The problem here is that most of the Homunculi, with the exception of Lust and Envy, are basically close range fighters, while Team Avatar is the king of extremely powerful ranged attacks.

Now on to Sloth. Yes, when someone tells Sloth to do something, he'll do it. Trouble is, I really don't see any of his fellow Homunculi telling them to join in until some of them have died already. See, the homunculi, if I remember correctly, really look down on humans. They're arrogant, plain and simple. They think that humans are plain off beneath them and that any human that stands in their way is pretty much dead. The fact that they've had pretty much no real opposition prior to this fight would only boost their egos more. In their eyes, at least in the beginning, they don't need Sloth, so they wouldn't object to him sitting the fight out until the final stages.

Now for Greed, Bradley, and Toph:

First off, thank you for clarifying that Bradley's fighting speed is not the same as his running speed. I had thought the two were the same. However, that really only harms him here. You said he was a little faster than a tank. Tanks aren't that fast. So we can forget about him speed blitzing Iroh. With the defense I just mentioned, he shouldn't be getting anywhere near Iroh or anyone else for that matter.

I completely agree that, due to Greed's regeneration, killing Greed completely would take time....for any other Earthbender. I also agree that Bradley's Ultimate Eye is totally a factor and has extremely useful precognitive abilities....for any other Earthbender.

Unfortunately for both of them, they're facing Toph.

Toph is, to put it simply, the greatest Earthbender in the world. Her abilities are superhuman not just in the world of real life, but in the Avatar universe as well. I said before that Toph performs complex maneuvers just by doing small motions. Here's a video showing her fighting style to demonstrate what I'm talking about:

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I'll be blunt here. Toph is just ridiculously overpowered compared to the rest of the series. She doesn't have to make big sweeping motions like every other bender. She shits her hand downward and an entire wall of spikes comes out of the ground. Greed would regenerate, yeah, but she could just crush him into a cube over and over again using her big toe while still focusing on helping the others.

As for Wrath, I'm using the Fullmetal Alchemist wiki for my info because I don't remember his specifics too well. The wiki says that his Ultimate Eye "grants him tremendously accurate vision and the ability to read and predict practically any move his opponent could make as well as the minute details and movements of his general surroundings."

Unfortunately for Wrath, this doesn't work on Toph. You see, it's not Toph he has to worry about. It's pretty much every little pebble of rock around him. He can train his eye on her, but that won't help him. He will be able to see what SHE will do. He won't be able to see what the EARTH will do. And because she's unique and doesn't telegraph what she's about to do, he in turn has no idea what's about to come at him.

Of course, the wiki also tells me that because Wrath is a human-based homunculus whose Philosopher's Stone only contains one soul, he can only die once. If that's true he should be dead long before he gets within striking distance of anybody.

And then there's the fact that Toph's metalbending renders his swords useless.

So eventually Sloth's gonna come into play. It's a given. Sloth is the Homunculi's biggest strength. He's super strong and very quick. One shot from him is going to ruin anybody's day and what's worse for Team Avatar is that I don't think they're all that durable. He could potentially cripple anyone on the team or even kill them in one hit if there's only as durable as average humans (pretty sure they're not, but it's possible).

I see this going down one of two ways:

1. He keeps Team Avatar on their toes but they are able to evade him and eventually take him down.

Sloth is very fast, but the Avatar team is actually very good at dodging and keeping mobile. Plus they have ways of becoming very fast themselves.

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Or if that doesn't work:

2. Sloth wreaks havoc on the team, possibly killing some members and Aang enters the Avatar State

Just to refresh your memory on the Avatar State

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Sorry I just can't see the Homunculi taking this considering all of this.

I will say that I still adore Brotherhood though.

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@nicksmi56:

When i meant Normal Gluttony i meant the Gluttony that haven't run out of lives yet. Still the FMAB Gluttony no other version.

The thing is Gluttony isn't that fast with his Portal form (Calling it that from now on). People like Mustang was able to avoid it and he's just a Trained man with no extra physical stats. And in all seriousness Gluttony is probably the Homunculi with most lives, since he've died so many times during the series, so i think he'll stay longer then Lust would. There'd be a number of scenarios i'd see Gluttony using his form:

  1. If Lust dies
  2. If one other Homunculi tells him to do it
  3. If he's threatened (Like able do die permanently threatened)

Thanks for reminding me Btw about their Teamwork. I actually remember these scenes and do recognize that they can teamwork, however i don't agree on them holding back in these scenes. There's a difference by holding back and using non-lethal methods, they're simply bending non-lethal attacks against their enemy. I'd think the time difference wouldn't be that big if they'd killed the enemy soldiers instead of immobilizing them. Like Katara using her Water to cut them and Toph using Earth to crush them.

Now the thing with your tactics are that when you're fighting people like Sloth and Wrath you're not gonna stay far from them very long. And they wouldn't be able to stay close to each other in a formation since Sloth would be like a Bowling ball and they're the Pins. And if they're split up then the other H's would be able to get close to them.

Now this is gonna be a long one.. Wrath..

I think you're underestimating Wrath's speed a bit, Both Travel and Combat speed actually. When i say he's faster then a tank then i mean about 40Mph and that's kinda fast when you're not using a vehicle. And one Important part is the he doesn't need Acceleration, What i mean is: He Reaches his Top speed Instantly!

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Now remember, The girl he's blitzing is a bullet timer too! So he would have no problem blitzing anyone on the enemy team, Even Iroh!

This video shows another Interesting thing! 1:40 Here you can se actual teamwork from the Homunculi. And now that i think about it the Homunculi's actually fight together (Maybe not Sloth since he's to slow to understand and think). The Homunculi are Arrogant but they're not Arrogant enough to deny help and thinking they don't need the others.

(Envy may be stupid but he's not That stupid :P)

But back to Wrath.. The reason i don't think the Avatar team would be able to hit him at all is his insane Reaction time, Force to break things harder then his sword and understanding of his soundings.

Loading Video...

Now from 0:20 - 1:09 he:

  • Runs full speed forward.
  • Blocks Machine gun bullets while Advancing.
  • Does it with One sword.
  • Kills 7 Soldiers, While Advancing Before the Broken glass has even fallen to the ground
  • And does not use his Ultimate Eye!

This is actually one of his best showings. The characters he usually fights with are themselves Bullet timers, so it's not inconsistent for him to be this fast now and then later looking slower in a sword fight.

Another thing you brought up is that he only ha one soul so he would go down fast, He actually has a normal Human body (Perhaps a bit Stronger and Faster) that does Not Regenerate like the other Homunculi, but that does Not mean he's not Durable!

Loading Video...

4:08 - 5:30

Here he fights someone using Alchemy, Similarly to Earth-Bending, and this is him being severely injured! He's been Impaled in his chest and right arm (The one he uses his sword with, the video is inverted so here it's Left), He's been shot And he has lost his Ultimate Eye! And he still fights like a Super Solider!

Now Toph is badass but she's limited due to her Not having eyes! She sees by feeling the Vibrations in the ground and the Speed of vibration is as fast as the Speed of sound. As i've proven before, Wrath can react and act alot faster then the Speed of sound! And even though she doesn't need big motions to Bend, Wrath's UE would see every moving muscle in her body no matter how small the motions are.

Now Aang going into Avatar mode is really dangerous and could only be handled in some ways.

  • If Wrath is fast enough to Throw his sword/ Blitz him before Aang has time to react (Similar to when Azula shot Aang with her lightning when he wen't into Avatar mode)

  • Lust stretching her claws far enough to reach Aang's body and cut it apart

  • Gluttony Swallowing him into his pocket dimension

  • Sloth Running head first into Aang and taking him out

This is pretty much why i see the Homunculi taking this! Wrath and Sloth being the heavy lifters. Gluttony and Lust would be devastating if they'd hit anything but i doubt they will. And Envy and Greed being just Meat Shields against the Bending.

Btw You made me re-watch Avatar again! :)

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This would be an incredibly close fight, but I'll have to side with the Homunculi in the end. I think that Team Avatar has the versatility and the right combination of elements (heh) to stick it through, but are fatally uninformed. I was going to argue about how nearly every death in TLA was left strangely ambiguous, and therefore highlight their unwillingness to kill (Aang, Iroh, and Katara especially), but the OP says that they'll use whatever means necessary. This makes it closer, but they are still fatally uninformed on the Homunculi. The second Lust strikes, any attempts at blocking (which is much more commonplace than dodging in the series) will be cut through, and they're down a bender. This will enrage the remaining benders, and out come the fireblasts...which will mess up Envy, but Greed's armor and Wrath's speed will allow them to weather it while counterattacking. These two also allow whichever Homunculi that sustained injuries to regenerate and regroup. Speaking of speed, none of the benders have the reactions nor durability to take a rush from Sloth, so if he goes in at the beginning that's another one or two benders down.

The MVPs for Team Avatar are likely Aang, Iroh, maybe Katara (someone pointed out earlier that the fight is next to a river), and possibly Toph. However, Earthbending will only go so far against the superfast (Wrath and Sloth), the nigh-invulnerable (Greed and Sloth), the shapeshifter (Envy), the nigh-unlimited cutting potential (Lust; and she's definitely going to be the one to end Toph), and the guy who absorbs endless amounts of matter into the pocket dimension in his stomach (Gluttony, and this could very possibly neutralize all other large-scale bending assaults). Airbending doesn't have the striking feats to keep up with what is required to down Homunculi, and Waterbending's best asset would be to freeze the opponents, though most could break out immediately. Thus, fire is the best option, but a Greed/Wrath/Sloth blitz combo with support from Lust would see the end of them. Wrath would immediately close the distance, and none of them have feats to resist what would come of that (save for Iroh's potential Dragon of the West attack; Zuko's swordsmanship and Azula's agility will do them no good here).

In the end, the Homunculi will take losses, likely Envy and Gluttony, and potentially Lust or Sloth. However, I believe that the FMA teams higher versatility and regeneration take the win for them.

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@datswampertazz: I know Ling did when he became Greed, but not the original. He didn't have time do when he was against King Bradley.

...or did he go full armor against Ed? Crap, now I can't remember.

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#62  Edited By DatSwampertAzz

@datswampertazz: I know Ling did when he became Greed, but not the original. He didn't have time do when he was against King Bradley.

...or did he go full armor against Ed? Crap, now I can't remember.

he went full armor against ed..and ed deduced what his shield was made of and started the counterattack

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#63  Edited By texasdeathmatch

@datswampertazz: Right right, for some reason I thought original Greed's only fight was the one against Bradley. Thanks for the clarification.

Great to see members appreciating one of my threads though.

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@datswampertazz: Right right, for some reason I thought original Greed's only fight was the one against Bradley. Thanks for the clarification.

Great to see members appreciating one of my threads though.

no prob...greed is my fave character from the series..cant have him lose against avatarverse ppl lmao

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@dewin50:

First off, thanks for the vid. It clarified Bradley's speed so he's gonna be attempting to speed blitz. However, I still think his contribution is really iffy though. It's the guy with swords vs the metal bender. Heck, if Toph knows he has swords beforehand from Team Avatar hearing of them, she might just bend them away the second she gets there rather than waiting for the fight proper to start. In character and out for blood, she probably will. In fact, Toph's Seismic Sense allows her to see just as precisely as normal sight with the exception of writing and facial features according to the Avatar wiki (had to clarify how accurate it was), so he shouldn't even need to hear about the swords (she probably will but still). The minute she steps on the ground, she'll sense the swords and dispose of them. Rip them to dust sized pieces or whatever. Bradley's fast but he's not fast enough to avoid that. In the video you showed, Ling was still able to notice Bradley was moving, turn, and yell at Lan Fan to get out of dodge. So Bradley's fast but not speed of thought fast. Plus, there's the fact that as long as Bradley's moving along the ground, Toph can keep track of him. Combining that with the fact that her bending is extremely minimalistic in terms of movement, she shouldn't have a problem rendering the swords useless before he can hurt anyone. At that point, he really can't do much to anyone. The vid shows he's definitely durable but when his main weapon is taken away he doesn't have much else. There's also the fact that Scar was clearly able to tag him with what was basically earth bending before Bradley could get to him, only much slower than Toph's. Oh and considering that at this point Toph is the only metalbender in the world, Bradley wouldn't even know that his swords can be affected, so he'd have no defense against it. He wouldn't even know to start moving. He'd probably only unsheathe them before they got destroyed.

As for the whole Ultimate Eye thing, sure, he can see every muscle of Toph's but that's not the point.

Here's an example: Toph shifts her foot to the left. What does that mean? Are spikes going to burst out from underneath him? Will pillars come from his right? Will the ground in front of him split apart? He literally has no way of knowing. Yeah, he can see every moving muscle in her body, but that doesn't help against Toph's bending, because it's really the Earth doing the work.

Bradley gets taken out pretty early

Greed we've covered.

Now for Sloth:

Since I have a lot more free time on my hands, I did some research of my own.

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Sloth isn't as powerful or deadly as I remembered. In fact there are a couple of things in this battle that make me believe that he isn't much of a factor here.

First off Sloth doesn't go all out to begin with. He started the fight by swinging those chains around because he's too lazy to fully exert himself, and Olivier, who seemed to be moving at normal human speed, was able to avoid them. He only decided to start really fighting after he had already died once.

Second, Sloth can't control his own speed. He can't see his surroundings. The only thing he's capable of doing is barreling forward and hoping he hits something. He's not even able to switch direction or stop under his own power. When he fights both the Armstrongs, his main method of attacking is charging forward until he hits a wall, turning around and trying again. The only time he actually thinks to do something different is when he is stopped from moving by Armstrong, and even then, he goes right back to charging afterwards. Basically, Sloth is a one trick pony, and that'll be his downfall.

See, Sloth only did as much damage as he did because of three things:

1. They were in a confined space. The location in this scenario is much more spacious and thus gives Sloth alot more room to miss.

2. Both Armstrongs can only move so fast. Peak human speed at the very most. As I demonstrated in my last post, Team Avatar is capable of much quicker movement than that.

3. They both stood there gawking at Sloth's speed instead of doing something about it. As this is a battle and not an episode of the show where characters have to spout exposition, Team Avatar won't be doing that. They'll be planning on their feet and reacting.

Now that those factors are out of the way, let's look at what we know.

We know that Sloth isn't smart enough to think of doing something else, so all Team Avatar really has to do is avoid the charge.

We know that Sloth is not so fast that he is untraceable with the human eye, nor is he truly capable of speed blitzing. Not only are both Armstrongs able to keep track of him (they react when he barrels towards them and when he passes), but Izumi is able to hit him mid run as her entrance to the fight. Keep in mind that she has no idea about his speed when she first arrives, so she can obviously see him at first glance. She's also able to intercept him mid charge when he's barreling towards her, so it's not luck. Izumi is not only crippled but also shows nothing that makes her anything above peak human speed.

Even a bunch of human soldiers who are not enhanced are able to tag him mid run. Sloth's major weakness is exactly what Armstrong says, "He comes to you himself so you just have to wait for him."

And to make matters worse for Sloth, none of those examples have the capabilities of Toph's Seismic Sense.

Toph can literally solo Sloth.

The Seismic Sense is the ultimate tool against someone like Sloth. She knows where he is and where he's going to end up at all times.

Armstrong stops Sloth by pouring a bunch of spikes into his body. Toph can replicate this feat, and to much great effect since her Earthbending is much faster than Armstrong's alchemy.

And that's without her using the Seismic Sense to help the team.

See, Toph knows where Sloth is and what direction he'll be heading in. All she needs to do is tell her teammates what direction Sloth is heading in and they have more than enough time to get out of the way. And that's not all. After deducing his running speed (with the help of her Seismic Sense, this would take one charge at the most), she can tell the rest of her team where to attack and when. Considering Sloth didn't take all that much time to take out to begin with, it no longer matters whether he waits until the end of the fight or joins in the beginning. Team Avatar finishes him off and all he could do is grazing damage at the most. This is assuming he doesn't just go plunging off the side into the water. Sure he could jump back, but that would give the team some much needed breathing room and pretty much guarantee him not doing any damage.

As for them splitting up, yes they'd be scattered for a bit, but woe betide the Homunculi if they close that distance. Each individual member of Team Avatar has so many area of effect attacks it's ridiculous, so not only are all the homunculi still off balance, but they die at least once head to head. Lust is made for distance and would probably get impaled or her head sliced off. Heck, Hughes managed to get away from Lust just from throwing a knife at her head, and the kicker is he did it while wounded. Envy can't beat Katara, Azula or Zuko in close combat. And God help whoever's facing Iroh.

Plus homunculi are stunned if they're killed. When Ling slices Gluttony's head in half, he stays on the ground for a couple of seconds. It would be relatively easy for each to get right back into position after killing whoever they're facing. In fact, close combat would probably just make the whole ordeal easier since they'd be guaranteed some kills.

So Sloth is easily conquered. Greed is taken out immediately. Bradley is alive (for now) but weaponless.

Before I continue, I wanna clarify what I meant by holding back. I didn't mean power output wise. I mean in terms of lethality. For example, instead of throwing blocks at people or doing an Earth wave, Toph could do a wave of spikes coming from the ground and impaling everyone. Katara, instead of hitting people with water or using the water whip, could turn the water ship into an extending ice sword and just throw ice daggers to impale people (also keep in mind that she's been using that pouch since Season 2 and we have yet to see a fight with Katara at her full potential literally surrounded by water. That tidal wave pic I posted is a very real possibility). When I say they've been holding back, I mean they've been avoiding the insta-kill moves that they would most definitely use on the Homunculi.

I don't see one of the other homunculi telling Gluttony to eat everyone just like that. I really don't. Their arrogance may not be as deep as all of them going lone wolf, but I find it really out of character for them to just press the nuke button. If they really were so eager to end every conflict so quickly, why didn't Bradley have Gluttony just eat Ling in that video? It's not like Ling could stop him. Heck, why not just sick Gluttony on any strong alchemist who tries to stop them that isn't a necessary sacrifice?

I stress once again that the Homunculi are so arrogant they don't believe they need outside help, at least not from the outset. If they weren't, they would've won in their series quite handily, but unfortunately for them they are, and for good reason. They're basically immortal and can take care of themselves.

I also don't see Lust dying before Gluttony. Like I said, Lust will probably be hanging back, and Gluttony will be charging forward. You have to look at this from Team Avatar's perspective. Go for the thin woman whose attacks are easily avoidable, or go for the crazed, blood-hungry guy who's obviously super strong due to the craters he's leaving behind him? It's like going for a kitty over a T-Rex. It's just not going to happen. To make things worse for him, with two homunculi down pretty much automatically, Sloth not charging just yet, and Envy and Lust being ranged fighters, him charging at everyone just presents himself as the most pressing problem. He's going to get element blitzed. Hard.

This leads me to my next point. Gluttony eating everyone when he's on the brink of death. Possible but unlikely. Why? He's, once again, too stupid. After Ed and the others get out of Gluttony, the fight afterwards causes him to run out of energy so he can no longer heal . My question is if he was brought to that point, why didn't he attempt to eat them again? You'd say what's the point. I'd counter with the fact that this is Gluttony that we're talking about. He's dumb as a sack of hangers. Literally the only things on his mind are "food, fight, Lust". He shows absolutely no thoughts other than that. No thoughts for strategy or trying to accomplish anything other than sustenance. He's so dumb that he's always sent somewhere with another Homunculus to keep track of him because he can't be trusted on his own. That's dumber than Sloth, who's pretty stupid. He's more than stupid enough to attempt it again and yet he doesn't. It's never established that he can only do it once, so my reasoning is simply that he doesn't think of it.

So I stand by my point that he'll only do it if Lust dies, and he should be gone before that happens.

Lust won't survive. Envy won't survive.

We're getting to that point in that battle where it literally can go either way. The only variable at this point if if they're prepared. If the Avatar team is prepared, meaning they know what they're up against, their strengths combined with the Homunculi's respective weaknesses will give them the win. If they're unprepared like @anathematic said, they get overwhelmed. I'd say they're prepared though. The fact that Aang felt the need to go out and assemble a dream team to begin with when he would usually deal with the threat by himself to avoid anyone else getting hurt proves it. Heck, he was prepared to handle the Fire Lord all by himself. By the end of the series, he's pretty confident in his abilities, so I don't think he would bring everyone in (and certainly not AZULA of all people) unless he felt it was the only way.

As for you rewatching Avatar, likewise! I finally got Brotherhood on Blu-Ray and this debate got me so excited to actually watch it in action instead of reading it that I put my current (and first) runthrough of Smallville on hiatus to watch it all! :D Awesome series deserves to be watched!

Also, a big thank you shout out to the OP @texasdeathmatch for making a battle so great that it could even get to this level of closeness.

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@nicksmi56: haha thanks man, I'm really enjoying reading everyone's input on this. Everyone seems to be well versed with these characters, and shockingly still maintaining a civil debate. Glad it hasn't turned into a sh*tshow of name-calling.

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#67  Edited By easterlin74

I have not watched much avatar but id say six homunculi at the same time is just way too much for avatar characters to handle. Wrath, Greed and Gluttony could probably 3-man it.

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@easterlin: I guess it's a good thing I left out Pride then.

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@nicksmi56:Toph's Seismic Sense allows her to see just as precisely as normal sight with the exception of writing and facial features according to the Avatar wiki

No, her Seismic sense is Very different from Normal Sight. She can see behind objects and people that eye-sight cannot do (Not even Bradley's Ultimate Eye) but she cant se anything that isn't touching the ground. And she needs Solid ground to see, a simple jump and she would have to guess where they are. Stand in something not solid like mud or sand and she would be blind. The moment someone puts their foot down the vibrations would move at the SoS(Speed of Sound) to her and ad Proven before Bradley's eye works alot faster then that but moving on.

The minute she steps on the ground, she'll sense the swords and dispose of them. Rip them to dust sized pieces or whatever. Bradley's fast but he's not fast enough to avoid that. In the video you showed, Ling was still able to notice Bradley was moving, turn, and yell at Lan Fan to get out of dodge. So Bradley's fast but not speed of thought fast. Plus, there's the fact that as long as Bradley's moving along the ground, Toph can keep track of him. Combining that with the fact that her bending is extremely minimalistic in terms of movement, she shouldn't have a problem rendering the swords useless before he can hurt anyone.

As for the whole Ultimate Eye thing, sure, he can see every muscle of Toph's but that's not the point.

Here's an example: Toph shifts her foot to the left. What does that mean? Are spikes going to burst out from underneath him? Will pillars come from his right? Will the ground in front of him split apart? He literally has no way of knowing. Yeah, he can see every moving muscle in her body, but that doesn't help against Toph's bending, because it's really the Earth doing the work.

Bradley's Running speed is not near FTT (Faster Then Thought), but his combat speed is way above it! Ling had time to yell while he was running towards her, but when he got to her her mask didn't even have time to split before he was done. The thing with his Eye is that it has Precognitive abilities and would predict every movement she does. He would instantly see her weaknesses and exploit them, jumping and touching the ground as little as possible for example.

However since A-Team has prep and Bradley not being bloodlusted he would have his Eye-patch on and would loose his sword the moment Toph "sees" them. However once he realizes his swords are gone he'd go in Serious mode, taking his eye-patch of and breaks Toph's Neck. Seriously the team has nothing Bradley can't react to : Lightning/Water/Fire? Bradley dodges them, Earth? Bradley dances around it, Fire/Water/Earth Wall? He jumps over it! The only complicated one is Air but since Bradley would see it coming a mile away he'd find a way around it somehow. And this if all of them focuses him, then the other Homunculi would be half way near the Group and by the time they switch Targets they'd bee overrun.

The only reason i've said that Envy, Lust and Greed are pretty much useless is because the A-Team can Crowd control them pretty easily, But if they slip up and let one of them close, they're dead.

There's also the fact that Scar was clearly able to tag him with what was basically earth bending before Bradley could get to him, only much slower than Toph's.

The fighting and Alchemy is actually at a much higher pace and is only shown at normal speed so the viewers can see the actual fight. His Alchemy with the Earth is probably Alot faster then Toph's. The series would be pretty inconsistent if in one moment Bradley is cutting up 7people in less then a second and in the other he's fighting a guy at normal speed. Scar is a bullet timer himself so this is probably the case. And incase you're thinking that the wounds made Bradley slower and that's why they're fighting in normal speed : He dodged Mustangs Fire Alchemy with those wounds and that is Lightning speed.

Sloth can't control his own speed. He can't see his surroundings. The only thing he's capable of doing is barreling forward and hoping he hits something. He's not even able to switch direction or stop under his own power. When he fights both the Armstrongs, his main method of attacking is charging forward until he hits a wall, turning around and trying again. The only time he actually thinks to do something different is when he is stopped from moving by Armstrong, and even then, he goes right back to charging afterwards. Basically, Sloth is a one trick pony, and that'll be his downfall.

See, Sloth only did as much damage as he did because of three things:

1. They were in a confined space. The location in this scenario is much more spacious and thus gives Sloth alot more room to miss.

2. Both Armstrongs can only move so fast. Peak human speed at the very most. As I demonstrated in my last post, Team Avatar is capable of much quicker movement than that.

3. They both stood there gawking at Sloth's speed instead of doing something about it. As this is a battle and not an episode of the show where characters have to spout exposition, Team Avatar won't be doing that. They'll be planning on their feet and reacting.

As i said : He's a Wrecking Ball. He'll set a direction and run over anything in his way there. He's a Slow thinker but his punches are normal speed and his Running is really fast. He hits someone and they're down. Unless the A-team is moving out of the way before Sloth has started Charging, they're not avoiding it.

1. He didn't miss much, he only missed twice and the time he hit Alex Armstrong tanked it.

2. The Armstrongs never dodged it, they didn't even have time to react when sloth was Moving. You didn't show anything about Combat Speed in your last post, you only showed their Travel Speed, witch Sloth is faster still.

We know that Sloth is not so fast that he is untraceable with the human eye, nor is he truly capable of speed blitzing. Not only are both Armstrongs able to keep track of him (they react when he barrels towards them and when he passes), but Izumi is able to hit him mid run as her entrance to the fight. Keep in mind that she has no idea about his speed when she first arrives, so she can obviously see him at first glance. She's also able to intercept him mid charge when he's barreling towards her, so it's not luck. Izumi is not only crippled but also shows nothing that makes her anything above peak human speed.

Izumi hitting Sloth mid Charge show you how fast Alchemy can be, further proving my point on the Scar vs Bradley point.

She couldn't see him since she was inside the... Earth.. Hand.. thingy and he couldn't have known about his speed or where he was at that time. So it's either really strong luck or as i believe it PIS for her to be more Badass. He also is able to catch him in mid charge and throw him. This could also be considered PIS or an actual feat to her Combat Speed and Strength, This is not too far fetched since she've been known throughout the series to be a real force to be recon with. As for her not having any showings of her being peak human+ : She only uses her Alchemy in fights and her Only real fights in FMAB is versus Sloth and Father. So there's not much to go on except that she is able to react to Sloth in Mid Charge.

Even a bunch of human soldiers who are not enhanced are able to tag him mid run. Sloth's major weakness is exactly what Armstrong says, "He comes to you himself so you just have to wait for him."

Those soldiers were literally waiting for him to run into the Chains, they didn't tag him in any shape of form.

And to make matters worse for Sloth, none of those examples have the capabilities of Toph's Seismic Sense.

Toph can literally solo Sloth.

The Seismic Sense is the ultimate tool against someone like Sloth. She knows where he is and where he's going to end up at all times.

Armstrong stops Sloth by pouring a bunch of spikes into his body. Toph can replicate this feat, and to much great effect since her Earthbending is much faster than Armstrong's alchemy.

Sloth has taken Tank Shells to the face and only getting a scrape. The fact that Armstrongs Alchemy can completely penetrate is a great showing of his Alchemy's Force. Toph may be able to bend bigger rocks simultaneously but she doesn't have any showing to create enough force to duplicate what Armstrong did. She still could create two big walls and smash him between them or create a wall every time he tries to charge someone. The seismic sense works... as long as his not Charging. She'd have to do what she wants to do Before his charge has begun.

And her telling her teammates where he's about to hit wouldn't work since by the time Sloth started to use Charge as an attack both teams would be in a all out fight.

As for them splitting up, yes they'd be scattered for a bit, but woe betide the Homunculi if they close that distance. Each individual member of Team Avatar has so many area of effect attacks it's ridiculous, so not only are all the homunculi still off balance, but they die at least once head to head. Lust is made for distance and would probably get impaled or her head sliced off. Heck, Hughes managed to get away from Lust just from throwing a knife at her head, and the kicker is he did it while wounded. Envy can't beat Katara, Azula or Zuko in close combat. And God help whoever's facing Iroh.

Yeah, the A-team has alot of AoE and is a Beast when it comes to CC (Crowd Control) but that's the weakness too, someone get's close and they're done. Hughes got a knife at her when they were in close combat but otherwise Lust is pretty much on par with the A-team on Combat Speed. Envy Can beat them one on one if he gets close or catches them with his arm, he's actually really durable since he contains alot more mass then shown so cutting him wouldn't be easy.

The thing you said was that the A-Team had to work together to win, but in 1v1 the Homunculi wrecks. So if either Envy, Lust or Greed fights Katara, Azula or Zuko alone they would win in the end. The A's would a good job of keeping them far away but i don't see it lasting long, And when they get close the can literally one hit them.

Plus homunculi are stunned if they're killed. When Ling slices Gluttony's head in half, he stays on the ground for a couple of seconds. It would be relatively easy for each to get right back into position after killing whoever they're facing. In fact, close combat would probably just make the whole ordeal easier since they'd be guaranteed some kills.

Nope actually they're not stunned when killed.

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So Sloth is easily conquered. Greed is taken out immediately. Bradley is alive (for now) but weaponless.

This is another thing, when i've discussed either Greed, Sloth or Wrath you take up Toph. Toph can't take on these three simultaneously, she'll have to choose.

I don't see one of the other homunculi telling Gluttony to eat everyone just like that. I really don't. Their arrogance may not be as deep as all of them going lone wolf, but I find it really out of character for them to just press the nuke button. If they really were so eager to end every conflict so quickly, why didn't Bradley have Gluttony just eat Ling in that video? It's not like Ling could stop him. Heck, why not just sick Gluttony on any strong alchemist who tries to stop them that isn't a necessary sacrifice?

Watch the Video Above at 2:17 Gluttony gets angry pretty quick and Goes Portal Mode. So the other Homunculi wouldn't really need to press the Nuke button.

I stress once again that the Homunculi are so arrogant they don't believe they need outside help, at least not from the outset. If they weren't, they would've won in their series quite handily, but unfortunately for them they are, and for good reason. They're basically immortal and can take care of themselves.

Pride, the Most Proud/Arrogant of them all has no problem team working with a "Mere Human"

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I also don't see Lust dying before Gluttony. Like I said, Lust will probably be hanging back, and Gluttony will be charging forward. You have to look at this from Team Avatar's perspective. Go for the thin woman whose attacks are easily avoidable, or go for the crazed, blood-hungry guy who's obviously super strong due to the craters he's leaving behind him? It's like going for a kitty over a T-Rex. It's just not going to happen. To make things worse for him, with two homunculi down pretty much automatically, Sloth not charging just yet, and Envy and Lust being ranged fighters, him charging at everyone just presents himself as the most pressing problem. He's going to get element blitzed. Hard.

This leads me to my next point. Gluttony eating everyone when he's on the brink of death. Possible but unlikely. Why? He's, once again, too stupid. After Ed and the others get out of Gluttony, the fight afterwards causes him to run out of energy so he can no longer heal . My question is if he was brought to that point, why didn't he attempt to eat them again? You'd say what's the point. I'd counter with the fact that this is Gluttony that we're talking about. He's dumb as a sack of hangers. Literally the only things on his mind are "food, fight, Lust". He shows absolutely no thoughts other than that. No thoughts for strategy or trying to accomplish anything other than sustenance. He's so dumb that he's always sent somewhere with another Homunculus to keep track of him because he can't be trusted on his own. That's dumber than Sloth, who's pretty stupid. He's more than stupid enough to attempt it again and yet he doesn't. It's never established that he can only do it once, so my reasoning is simply that he doesn't think of it.

No, Gluttony is not mindless at all. He's more of a child that is hungry all the time. And as shown earlier : Kill him a few times and make him mad and he'll go Portal Mode no problem.

The thing is that i don't see the Homunculi team losing with Wrath onboard, Every scenario i can think of would end up with him Cutting people up or snapping their necks one by one. Take him away and it would be more fair in my opinion.

Agreed on that it's more Agree to Disagree at this point, still have more showing s if you're interested in continuing this debate.

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NeonGameWave

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#70  Edited By NeonGameWave

The Homunculi.

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The Homunculi take this with minor ease. They all have the advantage of having an incredible healing power.+

Non of the Avatar team has an answer fro Greed's Ultimate Shield. Some of you retards (exuse my language) think that carbon is metal, but it isn't, so Toph can't touch him at all. His claws are sharp enough to claw through metal and rock, so he has an excellent attack.

Second: Sloth. Sloth's durability feats are ridiculous. He was able take a shot from a tank in the stomach and shrug it off like nothing happened. A fire bender couldn't lay a finger on him. He's also insanely strong, so Toph could really do jack shit either, since Sloth also has experience digging tunnels (If Toph might decide to drown him into sand or something). Then there's also his super speed. He's fast enough to barely be visible to the human eye. Add his incredible strenhgt to that and he's almost unstoppable.

Lust is gonna be hard too. Her Ultimate Spear will slice through anything and it's a pretty long ranged attack too. The fire-benders are nowhere near Mustangs level. The only way for a fire-bender to be close to Mustangs level is with Sozin's Comet, but it's not here. Lust was shown able to attack Mustang (in the end), when she was fire-blast-bombed by him, so even if Zuko/Iroh/Azula tries to burn her, she kills them, no doubt. Her attacks are also excellent against any defense the Avatar can put up, rock, ice or metal.

Gluttony can be taken care of, but only before Lust, because otherwise he will open his Fake Portal of Truth and kill everyone. If he doesn't do that, his strenght, bite power and healing, would still make him a formidable opponent, but also probably the easiest, along with Envy.

Talking about Envy, he's the weakest link. His gigantic form is banned, so his powers are a little limited. He still has the advantage to cause disorder among the Avatar team, but Toph should be able to counter that. he can make his arms into most things. Among them are a snake and a scythe so he's still quite able to stand his ground, but he wouldn't much damage.

And finally Wrath. He's faster then anyone on the Avatar team, since they haven't got any bullet-dodging feats, or anything remotely close to bullet-dodging feats. Hi swords are able to cut through tanks, tank bullets and stone. His Ultimate Eye enables him to see most incomming attacks and give him a near perfect aim. His reflexes, as I said, are that of a bullet dodger and deflecter with ease. His durability is very high too, even though he doesn't have the healing factor. He was able to fight against Scar, someone able to kill the best of the State Alchemist with ease, with a shot in his shoulder, a stab in the stomach and with his lost Ultimate Eye. He would've won, if not for the sun shining in his eyes, and he was even able to hurt Scar, by cathing his broken blade in mid air with his teeth, when his arms were off, and stabbing it into his abdomen.

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#72  Edited By DeathHero61

The real threat IMO is toph.

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Envy pulls out a gun and pops several of them in the head before toph realizes, then they gang up and gluts gobbles her

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PrinceAragorn1

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Homunculi easily. Only chance they have is aang using avatar state.

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This is just in case no one knew:

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Not even steel and rock pillars pierce him, they only did when edward negated his powers.

Lust can slice through virtually anything and would have no problem with the biggest factor in this fight, earth bending.

King bradley would easily speed blitz anyone there.

Sloth regardless of teamwork will catch team avatar off guard with his speed and durability.

Pride is self-explanatory.

Team avatar is not taking this.

And before you say flame spam on lust, their fire bending doesn't compare to roy's fire spamming.

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The Homunculi are too tough to be taken down non-lethally, and Azula and Iroh are probably the only ones on Team Avatar that would go for the lethal option. Greed's armor alone might be enough to solo, but I'm not sure how it reacts to Earthbending (it's just readjusted Carbon, not sure if it's close enough to earthen material). The Homunculi have a lot of lives too, so there's that. As much as I like Avatar, I give it too the Homunculi.

Would blood bending help the team?

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Arathorn_II

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@killerwasp: Yes, but only Katara can blood-bend and only one at the time, it leaves her vulnerable for any other attack, and she can only blood-bend with a full moon. So it's actually pretty useless, especially since it probably isn't a full moon.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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ik she is the only one who can blood bend.... Anyway why is she limited to 1 person? She was one of the best water benders in history and the best healer IIRC

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afueikawa

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Lust, Greed and Bradley takes this.

Gluttony, Envy and Sloth as distractions.

  • Lust can attack in either long or short range.
  • Greed can be at offensive or defensive (at the same time) when fully carbon-covered.
  • Wrath can dodge any attacks they can dish out and would slice them, let alone eye-patch off.
  • Sloth can speedblitz-slam them and break their formation.
  • Envy, in the commotion can shape shift and cause more distraction and can cheap shot.
  • Gluttony, well. Bon' Appetite.
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Arathorn_II

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#80  Edited By Arathorn_II

@killerwasp: Has she ever been shown controlling more then one person at the time, because, if so, my bad.

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@arathorn_ii: No, but its safe to assume that since Hama, Yakone, and Amon were able to do it to multiple people and given how much of master katara was, i'd say its safe to assume she could do 2 or 3.

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FrostyFrog

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@killerwasp no it isnt because they said in the series that they had inborn abilities

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@frostyfrog: Both? all of them, because only a select few could do it without a full moon and seeing how katara literally stopped hama who took a very long time to master, stopped her without even being able to do it before. I'd say she can.

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FrostyFrog

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@killerwasp You do know that during their fight the moon was still up

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deactivated-63665f9fbd262

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@killerwasp: It's stated that she's needs to have the moon for bloodbending. And feats from other bloodbenders are meaningless since were talking about Katara here. And you do know that The moon was still there when Katara was taking down Hama...

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deactivated-5dace575ce059

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@frostyfrog: yes ik, and i dont recall the op saying it wasnt up ^^ huehue

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FrostyFrog

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@killerwasp Well didnt say the moon was up and besides homunculus would still smash team avatar even with kataras blood bending

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@frostyfrog: Eh nawww all that water, and aang can just make a big tornado, and Azula is pretty agile herself huehue XD. I still got faith!! XD

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@dewin50: Ill let you read my post again.

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BlackWind

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#91  Edited By BlackWind

The Homunculi win as people have already stated.

Willing to kill or not, there's not a single person on the opposing team was anywhere near fast enough to keep up with Bradley. The dude is a casual bullet timer, without his Ultimate Eye. Even he can decimate large numbers .

Also nothing stopping Pride from eating them or strangling them with his shadows.

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deactivated-63665f9fbd262

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@killerwasp: I did, and still say the same thing. It's not safe to assume that Katara is capable to do a technique without its power source just because others have accomplished it. She couldn't do it and she wont be able to do it in this fight.

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@dewin50: You didn't read it, let me post it Both? all of them, because only a select few could do it without a full moon( i should of used a peroid here to make the other statement which was what im trying to point out. ) and seeing how katara literally stopped hama who took a very long time to master, stopped her without even being able to do it before. I'd say she can.

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@killerwasp: Yes but you're not understanding what i'm saying, She has been stated to need the moon even in Korra so even at Age 80 she hasn't learned it yet. So no Bloodbending won't be a factor in this fight.

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afueikawa

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The Homunculi win as people have already stated.

Willing to kill or not, there's not a single person on the opposing team was anywhere near fast enough to keep up with Bradley. The dude is a casual bullet timer, without his Ultimate Eye. Even he can decimate large numbers .

Also nothing stopping Pride from eating them or strangling them with his shadows.

LOL. Pride isn't in this, otherwise it would be overkill.

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Sonseray

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#96  Edited By Sonseray

Those of you who think that the avatar team has a chance are delusional, even with avatar state. Wrath solos. Scar could basically earth bend and scar only took him out after he'd fought an entire army and nearly every character in the show, and when Wrath had already had his ultimate eye removed. Wrath dodged bullets at point blank range and cut the fuses off of grenades before they could blow up. Wrath also escaped a train that was already falling off of a cliff and took out a tank. Most of these feats are without his ultimate eye. Wrath would chop down team avatar in a matter of seconds. Gluttony could swallow them all like it was nothing if he felt like it. Greed is unstoppable in his ultimate shield unless Toph can bend it (I really doubt she can).

Pride isn't in this but he would also solo (with ease).

A case can be made for Team Avatar taking out the 3 weaker homunculus. Sloth isn't really all that impressive, and neither is Lust. Envy would be a challenge for them but she is susceptible to fire. I think it would be hard for team avatar to even take out these three though. I mean, they can still die like 50 times.

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whoisme

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#97  Edited By whoisme

Team Avatar wins. Sins have a very, very small chance.

Lust, Gluttony and envy have Philosopher stones. Toph or Aang could sense the earth inside of them and crush it to dust and that would be the end of them. i can't remember if Sloth also has his in stone form. If so, the same thing happens to him. If not, Iroh, Azula and Zuko blast him with fire and lightning and Aang slices him with water and engulfs him with earth.

Wrath would surely not be able to blitz. Toph could sense his movements and change the terrain and put obstacles in his way. Azula and Iroh can blast him with lightning. Aang can use air to get Katara out of the way. And Wrath would have to get around all of this before Katara can move her hand, because as soon as she starts blood bending, it's over. She can knock Wrath out or make him slice his own throat. She can destroy Greed's organs over and over again.

I believe there is a slight chance that the sins would win.

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Lunacyde

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#98 Lunacyde  Moderator

If they kill Katara before Aang I could see him entering the Avatar State and them having a baaaaad day. However, I don't know enough about his opponents so I'll keep my mouth shut.

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whoisme

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#99  Edited By whoisme

Also, I just realized that Toph could bend Wrath's sword. He wouldn't even have a chance to do anything