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#1 Posted by Doomnaut (1993 posts) - - Show Bio

Tau Empire

UNSC

Covenant

Scenario

Both sides are at the height of their powers

1 month to prepare for all out war

Tau Empire is from the Warhammer 40K Universe

Who wins?

#2 Posted by Doomnaut (1993 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#3 Posted by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

Tau

#4 Posted by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio

The Tau have ludicrous tech.

#5 Edited by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

@glubgluby said:

Tau

@strider92 said:

The Tau have ludicrous tech.

Yes, these...40,000 times over.

Darkstar and Icefire Warheads FTW!!!

#6 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@doomnaut

@glubgluby

Both the UNSC and Covenant? Yeah warhammer 40k is crazy strong but from what I understand Tau is the weakest of the major races there( note I am new to 40k so correct me if I am wrong)in terms of numbers as they are still relatively young. If we are talking at there peak then both the Covenant and the UNSC has huge reserves ( believe it or not Humanity did have a big interplanetary empire before the Covenant went to town on them)

on the ground they would have to deal with the Covenant's ground forces The Hunters could cause hug amonts of damage on there battle suits and that's not counting the Vast amount of infantry they can call on. The Elites alone would cause the Tau to pause adding in the rest of the Covenant makes there job that much harder. the heavy plasma guns of the Hunters and Fuel rod cannons would but a hurting on the Battle suits of the Tau. and the general infantry of the Covenant is nothing to laugh at (besides the grunts I am convinced they are there only as comic relief) and to top it all off the Covenant have personal shields something that most of the Tau do not

Oh and lets not forget

These guys the Spartans, these guys make the Elites scared they are BA to an insane degree. the rest of the UNSC is also impressive holding there own against the superior firepower of the Covenant for Years! besides there guns which I would but on par with imperial Autoguns they have accesses to some nice weapons (Spartan laser anyone?)

In space things get messy the UNSC fleets are easily the weak link in this alliance but between them and the Covenant's fleets which are massive they could easily hold there own if not out right push the Tau fleet on the offensive . and on the defense the UNSC shines with there ODP which is a really big gun that can put a round clear though a capital ship combining that with the fleets the Tau would not even make it to the planet below.

In my mind the team can take this if they play conservatively and play to their advantages.

#7 Edited by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: They may be young but they have crazy level-tech. Their standard weapons can nigh one-shot Marines.

#8 Edited by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: when you say covenant ground forces I just picture grunts running in circles screaming. But in all seriousness, the tau are built to take on space marines, space marines are way more durable/trained/powerful than anything either side can dish out. You could argue Spartans are as well trained, but they can't dish out nearly as much pain. The tau are honestly too advanced. Most of their weapons would one shot covenant forces and some of their heavier weapons could take down Spartans with one shot.

#9 Posted by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: The Tau being the weakest of the major 40k factions only matters when you put it into context, because the Tau still outclass both the UNSC and Covenant both in space and on the ground.

#10 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92

yeah, so? the Covenant weapons do the same thing.They still managed to fight them. do not underestimate what a well placed bullet or a rocket to the face can do in this kind of fight every shot counts and before the Covenant there was a huge supply of body's available. it might take a single shot to bring down a marine but there is a lot of marines and they do not take kindly to someone one shooting there friend. and the Covenant has body shields something that is almost un heard of in 40k try one shooting an Elite whit a standard Tau unit

@glubgluby

Now picture an army of Jackal snipers, Elites, Hunters, Brutes, not so funny now. I think you should keep in mind that the Space Marines while they kick ass are not the main body of the army no mater how BA they are there are only so many of them the same rule applies to the Tau they may have kick ass elite units but most of thire army is still weaker than Elite ( the species) normal ground troops. and that's not even considering the Brutes who can cause quite a bit of chaos if they so chose. and those Grunts you mentioned? they are not very funny with a Fuel rod cannon or they are manning a really big Plasma gun.

Also from what I understand isn't plasma weapons a big deal in 40k ?( correct me if I am wrong) the Covenant fields standard issue plasma weapons ! heck even grunts use it!

Yeah I know that Spartans are < space marines what I am trying to say is that they can and will be a factor in the ground battle. But a few points one a Spartan is much smaller than a space marine and they can move at highway speeds. this makes them much harder to hit than SM's.the rest of the UNSC I will admit is the weakest of the forces in play here but in my mind they are pretty close to the Imperial Guards in fire power more or less so they are not non factors in this fight.

@vmole

In space the Tau primarily have converted Civialn ships the UNSC and Covenant have massive dedicated military fleets. And the UNSC has the ODP's on the defensive they can hold there own in space I think.

Also I should bring up that in Cyber warfare the edge goes to the UNSC in a stomp they have AI's they can but a hurting on the Tau systems

In sum I am not saying it will be easy any 40k race has to be powerful to survive but if there was a race they could win against it's the Tau. these guys at there prims can do it but I would only say 6/10 times it will be a hard fight but I can see them pulling this off

#11 Edited by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: my grunt comment was merely a joke, I'm well aware that covenant ground forces are nothing to sneeze at. But tau battle suits are much more then they can handle. A railgun shot would easily bring down banshees and wraiths. You get battalions of tau battlesuits, and that's more than the covenant can handle. Spartan lasers may pose a threat but they honestly aren't efficient enough in rate of fire (or widely used enough) to combat the tau

#12 Posted by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: No they don't. Standard Covenent weapons such as the Plasma Rifle are a dime a dozen in the 40k-verse. Heck 40k Plasma guns burn at the same heat as the sun and Space Marines can take blasts from that and yet they are nigh-one shotted by Tau pulse rifles. Covenent don't have that kind of firepower for standard troops.

#13 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@glubgluby

and Plasma? Isn't that an issue for the Tau? also the Tau have mechs the Covenanthas Plsma pistols that can short out the systems of what every they hit. the battle suits main thing is that they are very mobile for there size if they can be stalled they can be killed. also 3 words Fuel rod cannon it's a plasma bazooka it can put a hurting on the battle suits, not to mention that the Hunters have even bigger guns.

also you are talking about a battalion of mechs the Covenant can flood the battle ground with Hunters and grunts with Fuel rod cannons eventually they can grind down the battle suits which are if I am right very rare and very expensive to make.

and lets not forget that the standard solders is nothing to sneeze at either the Battle mechs are impressive but the solders behind them is much weaker than the UNSC and Covenant solders in the end the Battle Mechs will go down like the Spartans did against the Covenant lots of destruction cause but eventually worn down and killed

#14 Posted by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole

In space the Tau primarily have converted Civialn ships the UNSC and Covenant have massive dedicated military fleets. And the UNSC has the ODP's on the defensive they can hold there own in space I think.

Also I should bring up that in Cyber warfare the edge goes to the UNSC in a stomp they have AI's they can but a hurting on the Tau systems

In sum I am not saying it will be easy any 40k race has to be powerful to survive but if there was a race they could win against it's the Tau. these guys at there prims can do it but I would only say 6/10 times it will be a hard fight but I can see them pulling this off

Nope, they only had converted civilian merchant ships comprising their fleet during and a little bit after the Damocles Gulf Crusade, but they constructed dedicated warship designs that were comparable to their Imperial counterparts after the conflict, and they have gotten a lot stronger since then. I'd wager that even a converted Tau exploration vessel has more firepower than 98% of the dedicated UNSC or Covenant vessels by virtue of the fact that the Tau have more advanced technology and better overall firepower and protection. The Enteprise D in Star Trek was an exploratory/diplomatic/scientific vessel with a secondary concern for combat only for the means of defending itself, yet it was a match or superior to the dedicated military vessels of the other races simply because it was more advanced.

The Tau throw down with other 40k factions and still pull off wins with a fair degree of regularity. They may be tiny and weaker power relative to the other major 40k factions, but they're still head and shoulders above the Covenant and UNSC in terms of military strength.

#15 Edited by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: you're underestimating the durability of battle suits and overestimating the power of covenant weaponry. Not to mention they have battle suits for every occasion. Xv88 broadside battlesuits can tank shots from W40k tanks. Nothing the covenant have is going to get through their hull. Not only that but they severely outrange everything the covenant has in their arsenal. They could probably bring down phantoms with their missiles/rail guns. The standard battle suit, is by no means squishy, not to mention extremely mobile. Fuel rod cannon shots move slower than rockets, and plasma pistols have an effective range of what, 50 meters on a good day? The tau out range that by a mile, and they not only outrage them, but they hopelessly outgun them

#16 Posted by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio

@glubgluby: Pfff Broadside suits are sooooooo last year. Riptide battle-suits is where its at!!!!

#17 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole

Ok sorry if I was going off of old info,

But I still think that at their prime they can still hold there own in space the Covenant has shielding technology which is rare in 40k even for the Tau. the UNSC has there ODP's which are nothing to sneeze at and they have the edge in Cyber warfare whit there AI's

Whit this new info they would have to play it very safe relying as much as they can on thire advantages. I would say in open space the Tau could beat out the Team 7/10 times If the AI's can hack the Tau systems if not it becomes the Tau win 8/10 times. In thire own space with ODP's things will get more even and they have a chance I say that the team pulls out a win on the home ground 6/10 times

on an unrelated note am I the only one who thinks they stand a chance here?

#18 Posted by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: yes, although I'll concede on to the AI's giving them a chance in a space battle, they still get decimated on the ground

#19 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13171 posts) - - Show Bio

40k always wins, not sure why people haven't figured that out yet.

#20 Posted by nerdork (4038 posts) - - Show Bio

40k always wins, not sure why people haven't figured that out yet.

lol, QFT!

#21 Edited by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerdork: @texasdeathmatch: Love my text disappearing, and being forced to re-type what I just typed....

Anyways, the Culture and Xeelee are generally considered well above 40k, but 40k is still strong amongst the more mainstream sci-fi/fantasy settings.

As far as electronic warfare goes, there's nothing to imply that UNSC electronic warfare would be effective against the Tau. The Covenant, as ignorant and useless as they were about understanding the technology they were using, were still running circles around what the UNSC were using when it came to using AIs, and that was even after multiple years after their initial encounter with the Covenant and a better understanding of Covenant technology.

UNSC and Covenant FTL are superior to what the Tau are currently using, but it's the dog chasing the car scenario, what does the dog plan on doing when it manages to catch up to the car? They can only hope that one of their slipspace drives aren't taken relatively intact by the Tau, because they are going to be dissected and turned around against them in a very short span of time, and that's a more realistic possibility considering the Tau fleet are going to trash the UNSC and Covenant in space.

#22 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92

the Tau battle suit is kickass I will agree no one unit in the UNSC or the Covenant can stand a chance in a one on one fight... but it is not one on one this is an open war.

this is the reason why the imperium has the Space Marines but still uses the Imperial Guards. no matter how BA you are if you get hit enough you will go down. as I stated earlier the Team has accesses to heavy weapons that at the very least will wound the battle suit and if they can be wounded they can be killed. also as stated earlier the Covenant has the humble Plasma pistol that when charged up can 'stun' any vehicle it hits and they come standard on grunts the most numerous of Covenant races do the math that's a lot of Pistols that's a lot of chances for a battle suit to get stunned and then hammered with a fuel rod cannon, Spartan Laser or a Hunter main gun.

How many Battle suits can the Tau use at one time? if they are comparable to SM's they have to be very few and very expensive. meaning they can be swarmed with raw numbers ( or MOR DAKKA as you prefer).

And once the battle suits are gone do you think the standard Tau solders stand a chance in hell against the Team's ? at all? the Covenant have Shielding the UNSC is crazy skilled, not to mention they have Spartans which while not being SM's they are still miles above the Tau rank and file.

On the Ground the only real treat comes from the battle suits and while impressive they have been and will be killed.

#23 Edited by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: There are 1.5million (roughly) Space Marines in 40k and they are considered Special Forces. The Tau outnumber them by a pretty large amount when their entire Race is in the same army. Heck they held off a Tyranid invasion (Hive Fleet Gorgon) which can sometimes number in their billions. The entire Tau empire most likely has excess of a few million Battle-suits and unlike the Space Marines are easily capable of building more.

#24 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92

So yes they do have a finite amount of them and I would imagine the Bigger/more powerful they are the fewer they have. As I have already said a normal ground team can kill a battle suit with a Plasma pistol Heavy weapon combo.the pre war UNSC had many planets with billions of people to draw on and the Covenant dwarfs them with ease , even if the battle suits inflict massive damage they will still run out much faster than team will run out of rank and file. and lets say the Battle suits manage to kill the majority of the Teams ground forces before being destroyed the Team has a much better head to head fighting infantry than the Tau. they can overcome the Rest of the Tau fighting force with ease

They can pull it off though a very tough fight 6/10 times

#25 Edited by Pierpat (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

Tau Loses.

This is exactly the tipe of thread i like, i seek, and i can spends ours on making for it a single post that no one will read.

Well, i love 40k(lol, as if my avatar and background where not enough).

But, at peak, NSC had 800+ wordls, and covenant likely at least twice.

Ok, tau are like gods of guns, ok, an army vs an army they stomp, but it'll be 10 armies vs 1.

Tau have, if we're going large and generous, 200 worlds.And alot are new colonies, with scarce support givable to war.

Tau will make them sweat, will make them suffer, will kill alot, but they can't withstand an all out war.

I would love seeing how long a riptide can kill armies of UNSC before they can think about something to take it down.

#26 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio
@pierpat said:

Tau Loses.

This is exactly the tipe of thread i like, i seek, and i can spends ours on making for it a single post that no one will read.

Well, i love 40k(lol, as if my avatar and background where not enough).

But, at peak, NSC had 800+ wordls, and covenant likely at least twice.

Ok, tau are like gods of guns, ok, an army vs an army they stomp, but it'll be 10 armies vs 1.

Tau have, if we're going large and generous, 200 worlds.And alot are new colonies, with scarce support givable to war.

Tau will make them sweat, will make them suffer, will kill alot, but they can't withstand an all out war.

I would love seeing how long a riptide can kill armies of UNSC before they can think about something to take it down.

Thank you someone else who thinks that just because its from 40k doesn't mean it's an instant win

#27 Edited by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103 said:

@strider92

So yes they do have a finite amount of them and I would imagine the Bigger/more powerful they are the fewer they have. As I have already said a normal ground team can kill a battle suit with a Plasma pistol Heavy weapon combo.the pre war UNSC had many planets with billions of people to draw on and the Covenant dwarfs them with ease , even if the battle suits inflict massive damage they will still run out much faster than team will run out of rank and file. and lets say the Battle suits manage to kill the majority of the Teams ground forces before being destroyed the Team has a much better head to head fighting infantry than the Tau. they can overcome the Rest of the Tau fighting force with ease

They can pull it off though a very tough fight 6/10 times

The Tau fight and have fought with Orks and Tyranids both in space and on the ground, these are two species that regularly engage with millions or more of their own troops in a single instance and shrug off those types of losses as if they were nothing, and the Tau have canonically won against those types of odds with relatively light casualties in multiple instances.

It won't be something the Tau haven't dealt with before, but the UNSC and Covenant would crap their pants at the prospect of dealing with that scale of conflict in such a limited period of time.

Of course, this is all assuming that Covenant and UNSC ground forces even make it to the ground, or else it'd be just like the Human-Covenant War where even if the UNSC had a fighting chance on the ground, it didn't matter because the Covenant would clean their clocks in space, except it'd be the Tau in the Covenant's position.

#28 Edited by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: Its not the Riptide suit they have to worry about its the new Tau Battle Titans. Yes the Tau have Titans now with Railguns the size of buildings lol. Not to mention they have planet busting spaceships like the Space Marine Exterminatus. They've used it on multiple Ork planets in the past.

#29 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole

Did the Orks and Tyranids have standard Plasma weapons and combat shielding? they may fight millions but they have never fought these millions. also as was stated earlier Both sides "has reserves " and Both have shone that in a total war they are fully capable of fighting.

and no one has yet to show me that besides the battle suits that the Tau have any chance at stopping the teams Ground game

#30 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92

They have Titans!?

Ok this just became a lot tougher but still winnable The Covenant still has Scarabs whose main guns can take on a tit.an worse comes to worse the Covenant have shown they have great ship to ground support.

as for planet busting... Ok you got me there the Halo verse dose not use planet busters but they do have a whole lot of ship to ship weapons and to use a planet buster you would need to get into ODP range and that would be... bad for there health

#31 Posted by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Edited by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

how many do they have?

#34 Posted by Strider92 (16498 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92

yeah I Guess they don't need to put in the rule book how many titans they have at one time.

As long as the Number is not massively crazy ( they did just come out) the Team could still win but barley

#36 Posted by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103: you say besides battle suits like that isn't the main ground game for tau, that's like saying besides space marines Spartans beat 40k humans. Also scarab < Titan, the tau are too technologically advanced for either side to take on

#37 Edited by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103 said:

@vmole

Did the Orks and Tyranids have standard Plasma weapons and combat shielding? they may fight millions but they have never fought these millions. also as was stated earlier Both sides "has reserves " and Both have shone that in a total war they are fully capable of fighting.

and no one has yet to show me that besides the battle suits that the Tau have any chance at stopping the teams Ground game

Tyranids regularly employ troops that use bio-plasma, which is just as powerful as Imperial, Eldar, and Tau plasma weapons, and Orks use energy weapons that have the same effect. Not as if it matters anyways, their standard weapons are more effective in their function than what the Covenant or UNSC have trotted out, as even a comparatively ramshackle slugga is capable of punching through a Guardsman

As for the ground game:

1) The UNSC still employs slugthrowers barely any better or actually worse than what we use today in a first-rate military, and their marines are Guardsman equivalents at best, except far less numerous and employing less advanced weaponry. Even if Imperial Guardsmen are particularly notorious for being nothing more than fodder in 40k, it's only because their opponents outclass them in nearly every conceivable way, not because they are poorly outfitted. In their latest expansion campaign, the Tau swept aside Imperial Guard forces and were only stopped when a combined Space Marine force headed them off, but even then it was all a part of the Tau's plan to divert the Imperial forces from more important areas the Tau were seeking to conquer (and they did).

UNSC ground assets are also pretty terrible, the Scorpion tank uses a gun that we would consider long obsolete in the modern world, the Warthog is just a more rugged Humvee, and their ATV is just that, an ATV. I also can't recall a single instance where they employed indirect ordnance from a dedicated system to use against Covenant forces, even when it would have benefited them the most (grunt charges, hunkered down Covenant forces, heavy concentrations of Covenant, etc.). I'd wager that they don't even have anything regarding indirect-fire assets, and believe it or not, that's a huge disadvantage because ground fights don't typically happen within direct line of sight or within spitting distance like they do in Halo.

2) The Covenant are notoriously inept at ground warfare, only winning against the UNSC on the ground through sheer numbers and advanced technology. Even with those advantages, the idiotic Covenant still managed to have a relatively hard time dealing with the UNSC on the ground and only won because their space forces roflstomped human spaceships.

A Tau Fire Warrior is already much better equipped and more competently led and organized than their opposition, that's their line soldier, not some ultra-specialized and heavy investment of resources like a Spartan or specially-trained Elite, that's already bad news for the circus that the UNSC and Covenant are running, and that's not even counting their battle suits, gunships, or air force.

And yes, they do employ ground-level shields, both stealth and battle suits can employ shield drones.

#38 Posted by _Gaff_ (3393 posts) - - Show Bio

Are we to assume the Covenant want try and stalemate by activating the rings?

Online
#39 Posted by Pierpat (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: hey, the titan is sperimental and they have a limited number, less than 10.

I won't say it will be easy, i won't say it will be fun, but team can and will win with sheet numbers.

Tau don't have ftl travel(kroot do, but they do not share it with the rest of the empire) so the planet-scourcing(they life-swipe, not planet-bust, to be clear) ships will be easy to limit.

#40 Posted by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: they don't even really need the titans to win the ground game

#41 Edited by Pierpat (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

@glubgluby: hey, i'm a GREAT 40k fan.

But tau just can't win this.

They are likely outnumbered more than 200:1, and in the space they are less strong than many can think.

Tomorrow i can post scans on how low is the power of the avarege sept in ground forces.

Again, army vs army they stomp, elite vs elite they stomp, gun vs gun they stomp, but they just can't win an all out war.

#42 Posted by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@pierpat: that depends on how they fight it, if they spread their troops out, they'd get beat maybe, sadly my knowledge of tau war tactics is a bit lacking, so I couldn't speak to how they would approach it, but if they're able to keep from getting too stretched out, they'd be able to cut a path to say the covenant homeworld, once that falls the covenants morale is going to take a huge hit. God forbid if they took out one of their holy sites

#43 Edited by Pierpat (2671 posts) - - Show Bio

@glubgluby: well, on land they use a hunter and prey style, with mobile positions, hit and run and quite a good flexibility.

They would not be able to reach the coventant homeworld before getting stopped, they are really slow in star travel.

#44 Edited by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole

1. I am not a big fan of the books but I can pick out a few examples of ship to ground support from the Covenant.

2.I agree that the UNSC weapons suck in comparison, but if the Covenant is working with them what's to stop them sharing plasma weapons? suddenly the Marines are much tougher.

3. The Covenant stupidly just reeks of PIS to me but the UNSC is with them and they are stupid so we can say that tactical mistakes become less common

4.the scorpion Battle tank is nothing to laugh at unless you want a tank round to the head. also unlike most tanks in 40k verse thes are easy and cheap to produce and they pack a nice punch as well

5. where are you getting the lack of artillery from?

6.Stealth I show you stealth Elites can go invisible at the drop of a hat

7. Shields come standard for Elites as in every common Elite has shields. Every .Single. One

8.the fact they the UNSC held out as long as it did speaks more for the skills of the defenders than the Covenants lack of skill.

9. the Elites Entire species is dedicated from birth to be warriors while only a fraction of the Tau are trained as warriors

10 Heavy weapons are much more common throughout the teams army than the Tau's

all I am saying is that they have a chance at this at worst they will make the Tau pay very dearly

or they could just trigger the rings and get a draw

#45 Edited by DKMfurlaff (26 posts) - - Show Bio

Sounds like Tau vs Forerunner would be cool

#46 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9440 posts) - - Show Bio

@dkmfurlaff

nah at thire peak the Forerunners would crush the Tau and reduce them to primitives just for the heck of it. the forerunners built a weapon capable of wiping out all sentient life in the Galaxy, made Planets and played with space time . the Tau would get destroyed.

Spartans are acknolged to be weaker than SM's but Forerunner armors are stronger by an insane degree meaning a forerunner solders could beat out SM's

the only reason they lost to the flood was the fact that they disarmed before hand

#47 Posted by DKMfurlaff (26 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103:

I don't know much of the WH40K universe but I know Halo and I agree they could probably just throw bodies at the Tau until something good happened

#48 Posted by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@dkmfurlaff: @cjdavis103: scorpion tanks can't penetrate battle suits armor, tau artillery >>>>>> unsc/covenant artillery in range and power, not to mention every battle suit has more than enough sensors to detect a elite cloaking. Also covenant plasma weaponry when compared to w40k plasma weapons is like comparing nerf and colt revolvers. And "throwing bodies until something good happens" is the WORST thing they could do, they'd lose badly if this is their gameplan

#49 Edited by VMole (625 posts) - - Show Bio
@cjdavis103 said:

@vmole

1. I am not a big fan of the books but I can pick out a few examples of ship to ground support from the Covenant.

2.I agree that the UNSC weapons suck in comparison, but if the Covenant is working with them what's to stop them sharing plasma weapons? suddenly the Marines are much tougher.

3. The Covenant stupidly just reeks of PIS to me but the UNSC is with them and they are stupid so we can say that tactical mistakes become less common

4.the scorpion Battle tank is nothing to laugh at unless you want a tank round to the head. also unlike most tanks in 40k verse thes are easy and cheap to produce and they pack a nice punch as well

5. where are you getting the lack of artillery from?

6.Stealth I show you stealth Elites can go invisible at the drop of a hat

7. Shields come standard for Elites as in every common Elite has shields. Every .Single. One

8.the fact they the UNSC held out as long as it did speaks more for the skills of the defenders than the Covenants lack of skill.

9. the Elites Entire species is dedicated from birth to be warriors while only a fraction of the Tau are trained as warriors

10 Heavy weapons are much more common throughout the teams army than the Tau's

all I am saying is that they have a chance at this at worst they will make the Tau pay very dearly

or they could just trigger the rings and get a draw

The Tau also employ ship to ground support, they're called Mantas, and they also double as anti-ship bombers.

1. Ship to ground support is standard fare for combat in 40k, it just depends on who has what in space and whether it is being contested.

2. Covenant plasma weapons are trash compared to the typical plasma weaponry in 40k, the Tau employ plasma weapons as standard and they outclass Covenant weapons by far.

3. It's not PIS if humanity managed to carry on a losing war against them for a few decades, it means that Covenant being idiots is standard fare.

4. It is something to laugh at, and considering that's coming from someone arguing on the side of 40k where one faction in particular uses tanks that are out of World War 1 mated with something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon is saying something. A Fire Warrior is a threat to a Scorpion considering even small arms can damage them, a Pathfinder with a rail gun would have a field day against UNSC vehicles, to say nothing of what a battle suit or gunship can do.

5. I haven't seen a single instance of the UNSC utilizing any form of indirect artillery, massed or otherwise, against Covenant forces when it would have severely benefited them.

6. Well it's a good thing Tau have more advanced sensor suites that can pick up stealthed beings, it's also a good thing for the Tau that their own stealth guys are rocking power armor with enough firepower to shred squads of infantry and pop open armor.

7. Shields that fall quickly to small arms fire from UNSC marines, and still easily bypassed by firepower that can dish out more energy than what the shield can absorb, something the Tau will have in spades over the team.

8. UNSC forces have one thing over today's forces, orbital and space assets, otherwise they are more poorly armed than any modern first-world military. The Covenant got as far as they did because they had both the numbers and technology to make their advances, they were both ignorant of their technology and too stupid to develop proper tactics that didn't devolve into 'durr we zerg 'em we win :B'.

9. That means nothing, they can all be trained from birth to be warriors, a submunition round, a bolt of plasma, or a squad of battle suits scattering missiles into a crowd of Elites don't care how long they've been trained, just that it makes them dead very quickly.

10. Define 'heavy weaponry', a Tau's standard pulse rifle would be functionally the equivalent of a sniper rifle of either the UNSC or Covenant, except it's standard weaponry for the Tau, it only gets heavier from there.

Battle Suits handle the heavy weaponry for the Tau, and there's no equivalent on the team's side to match them since they're tough, mobile, and carry a lot of firepower around the field. Scarabs? Uh oh, a Crisis Team landed on it and killed everyone on board and cored the Scarab itself. Wraiths? Sniped by a Broadside. Banshees? Shot down by whatever the commander wanted to use that day.

Or hell, the Tau can just hand out rail guns like candy to its Pathfinder teams, there, nearly all of the vehicles on the team's side are gone.

There's nothing on the ground or in space that they hold over the Tau besides FTL, but that just means that they'll be going to their deaths much sooner. Don't try the 'drown them in bodies' strategy, the Tyranids and Orks are much better at that than the UNSC and Covenant will ever be and the Tau still routinely defeat them.

#50 Posted by glubgluby (454 posts) - - Show Bio

@vmole: don't forget titans or stealth battle suits :D