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#1 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 of the tag team tournament begins !

Info

The fight takes place in on a neutral planet. A planet that is centered in a merged DC & Marvel universe. So both universes characters won't be hindered by coming to a next universe. Also so that prep is accessible. But don't go thinking "I'm Braniac 5, and i'm going to go to Marvel's side of the universe to go prep". No you cannot do that. It's a universe that has been expanded by twice the size to fit both respective universes. Not only that, but the planet is also 4 times the normal size.

So think of the earth being as big as Kelper

Oh, and by looking at everyone's team, almost every team has at least one being who can teleport. Except maybe Dredeuced & Esquire's team. So for the sake of the battle their will be a boom tube that can take you to any place in the marvel or dc universe. But here is the catch. You only get 6 teleports. Meaning you can only be teleported 6 times. ( There and back ) So that means you can have 1 teleport for each person on your team. Or you can give it out the way you want. Also if you have a character that can teleport, their teleportation abilities is nullified so that it does not give you unlimited teleports which others have. A next thing that you should know is that you only have 24 hours of prep. You can only grab equipment which has been used by the character in the past. But nothing uber like the Infinity Gauntlet or even the cubes, or anything along those lines. ( You guys should know what falls in that category ) If you character is going to create something, than their character has to have been shown to create something of that level in the past in that time. Like for example. What's the chance of Hank Pym making a next Ultron amour in 24 hours? Almost impossible. Now this is where it gets interesting. Your team is allowed to bring in 50 foot soldiers. This goes for your entire team. Not 50 for each character. When I mean foot soldiers, I mean Thor can bring fodder Asgardians, Aizen can bring Hollows, Naruto fodder leaf ninja ect. Nothing to extreme like, Superman calling the JLA, or Iron Man the Guardians Of The Galaxy.

Well I think I explained what I had to say about the battle above. Now here are the rules.

Rules

  • BFR is allowed, but can only be used as a last resort.
  • 24 hours prep for each team, and a boom tube with 6 teleports ( You can teleport 6 times )
  • Teams start on different sides of each other, 500 000 meters away from each other
  • Try to debate fair
  • If your opponent doesn't appear in at least 3-5 days you win ( Only if you made at least on post )
  • Just follow what I basically said in the top, lol

Teams

Team #1-CadenceV2 & ThunderGodsWrath

  1. Ghost Rider Blaze/Zarathos
  2. Ultimate Reed Richards
  3. Hell King Spawn
  4. Thor
  5. Sersi
  6. Sentry/Void

Team #3-Boschepg & JoeAgentOfHand1

  1. Alan Scott
  2. Top(Roscoe Dillon)
  3. Superboy Prime
  4. Magneto
  5. Cybernetic Guardian (Alpha Flight)
  6. Faith (JLA)
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#2 Edited by dondave (26817 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good

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#3 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: @boschepg @thundergodswrath Well, to start, Reed uses the time to get some fodder from the City, his city, as well Bio Bombs, and First Knife Cyborg.

Bio Bombs. These alien soldiers, that Reed made, are genetic creatures with Uber Powers in their Humanoid forms. They can explode in a instant, and rapidly grow into Slug Beasts. He uses the Satellites in the sky to jack and target targets, with deadly accuracy, via Vortex Teleportation.

First Knife. Reed created the Cyborg First Knife. A Being that moves fast enough to dodge lightning at point blank and speed blitz Thor who has Reaction Time comparable to Quick Silver and Hyperion!

Each of these Fodder beings is a 100+ toner with blades that cut Super Humans like Thor!

The best part of the City is it slows time to a crawl. Infinite prep!

That means I can remake the Big Bang Gun, Fantastic 5 Suit, Hard Light Helmet, and the all important Cosmic Cube!

Fantastic 5. Although Namor wrecked it before Reed could get his force field up, it was stated to mimic the Fantastic 4 power set and even double the powers level.

Hard Light Construct Helmet. Reed made this device to allow him to use up Energy of the entire Eastern US into powerful Constructs.

Big Bang Gun.

That covers Prep I should say.

As for the Cosmic Cube.... lets just say Reed has a Infinite Power Source with a device that can Bend Reality, not break it, it needs to work in the realm of Science still.

The Cosmic Cube was made by Reed and was used to bend Reality to his will.

Then Ghost Rider and Spawn will twiddle their thumbs till ready to act.

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#5 Edited by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: @cadencev2: @thundergodswrath

I just need some clarification but the OP rules state no infinity gauntlet or cubes

the tourney rules stated:

  • No reality warpers ( unless it's small reality warping )
  • No omnipotent, present, or science beings

explanation?

#6 Posted by New_World_Order (11177 posts) - - Show Bio

My characters are not really meant to prep. Only Thor really is.

With prep he will be able to access the Destroyers Amour. An amour neigh indestructible, well too your team that is. Not only can your team not get by it's defense, but you cannot tank it's blasting power, ( Visor beams ) which will wreck your team.

The Destroyer Amour

Able to cause Odin Force Thor great pain.

Not to mention he can obtain the Odin Sword which is Odin's weapon. He does let Thor wield it a couple of times though. It is immensely powerful too. Capable of slicing through any character in this whole tourny with extreme ease.

The Odin Sword

It has cleaved through Celestials with ease

So it won't have no trouble cleaving through your team.

Oh, and we will bring the canon Asgardian warriors to help fight. Take away Beta Ray Bill though.

That's it for my prep.

#7 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@joeagentofhand1: @cadencev2: @thundergodswrath

I just need some clarification but the OP rules state no infinity gauntlet or cubes

the tourney rules stated:

  • No reality warpers ( unless it's small reality warping )
  • No omnipotent, present, or science beings

explanation?

Like I said in my post.

As for the Cosmic Cube.... lets just say Reed has a Infinite Power Source with a device that can Bend Reality, not break it, it needs to work in the realm of Science still.

The Cosmic Cube was made by Reed and was used to bend Reality to his will.

It requires a Scientific mind and will to use. Also the cube overall power is Planet Level. The cube and Reed was almost destroyed by a Planet killing fleet. Its not near as powerful as the 616 Cosmic Cube or Inffinity Gauntlet.

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#8 Posted by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: There good on my end. Isnt Guardian... way too low for this type of battle? I thought the Collective killed him along with the rest of Alpha Flight.

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#11 Edited by oceanmaster21 (6319 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: Cool scans what issues were those from

#12 Edited by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: they actually came back from that. And that was human Guardian. I have cyborg Guardian...who KOd Galactus and bypassed Dr Dooms tech to choke the dude.As a ALpha Flight fan, I figured I had 4 volumes and over 200 issues (which I have all) to show what the suit can do. scans scans scans, lol.

Im just trying to have fun here and try some different stuff. I wish I also brought Hank Pym to this battle

@oceanmaster21:

of Guardian? the one where he links up to the Master of the World ships was Alpha Flight vol 1 issue 3. The one where he scans nuero frequencies is vol1 issue 93

#13 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: @cadencev2: @thundergodswrath:

So Superboy Prime gets his solar absorption armor and he spends the rest of the time in a yellow sun. Keep in mind sundipped Superman did stuff like this:

Now put the time span of 24 hours in your mind combined with an armor that absorbs yellow sun energy that allowed him to shrug off the affects of an artificial red sun and Superboy Prime's regular stats. Also the Top brings in his Rogues to fight(these will be my foot soldiers):

#14 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: @boschepg: @joeagentofhand1:To be fair we have no proof of feats how powerful 24 hours sundip will be.

Alright, lets play.

My opening Move is for Reed to make a City Size Time Freeze Zone. His Cube can respond to threats without Reeds thoughts before this way.

Scan 1-3: CC senses danger puts a impenetrable force field up and time freezes the city within.

This then leaves my team give Spawn the Chance to perform a world level Time Stop.

1-2) Spawn freezes time across the planet to gather his thoughts.

Well, I think thats game.

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#15 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I am also a little confused on your plan. So Reed freezes time within that area, but Spawn freezes time everywhere, correct?

#18 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I am also a little confused on your plan. So Reed freezes time within that area, but Spawn freezes time everywhere, correct?

Yes, let me explain why I said it that way.

You guys have Speed Blitzers of Light speed level. Spawn is Hyper Sonic at best. However any Speed Blitz will trigger the City Level Barrier + Time Freeze of the Cosmic Cube. Then Spawn has time for the Planet Time Freeze.

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#19 Posted by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Is either Spawn or Reed's time freeze only regulated to the planet? you dont have to answer but figured it would stop back and forths

#20 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@cadencev2: Is either Spawn or Reed's time freeze only regulated to the planet? you dont have to answer but figured it would stop back and forths

Reeds is regulated in a city wide Cube from where it is at. Spawns is Planet.

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#21 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: @boschepg: @cadencev2:

Alan Scott can also control time. Even while in character:

In the scan up above Alan has altered the respective rates of time flow so those around him experience thousands or millions of years time while he experiences mere minutes and seconds. So this shall counter all that your time manipulation. So let the games begin.

While Superboy Prime does not have feats of being under a yellow for 24 hours we can use Superman's time under a yellow sun to determine the exponential growth in power per hour or at least around that. I believe Superman was under a yellow sun for 2 hours during Our Worlds at War and here is the determination of his strength after that:

Sun dipped Superman moved approximately 4.3 Octillion tons/4,325,781,841,303,900,090,000,000,000 tons

This happened post crisis and I don't know if anyone ever did the calculations. When Superman moved war world which has thrusters that enable it to move beyond light speed, he moved approximately 4.3 Octillion tons.

Superman said war world had the same mass, size etc... as Pluto.

Pluto's mass is 13,090,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg which is 14 Quintillion tons(14,429,255,060,000,237,568 tons specifically)

Since war world's thrusters enable it to move beyond light speed and it used it's thrusters in an attempt to prevent Superman from pushing it, you'd have to apply the momentum = velocity(m/s meters per second) x mass(kg) formula to get the true mass that Superman was actually pushing which would be far beyond just Pluto's mass.

13,140,000,000,000,000,000,000(Pluto's mass) kg x 299,792,458(speed of light in m/s) = 3,924,283,275,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kg

In tons that would be 4.3 Octillion tons(4,325,781,841,303,900,090,000,000,000 tons)

To get more of an idea of how astronomical this number is, the combined mass of every planet in our solar system in tons is approximately 2.9 Septillion tons(2,940,408,474,000,000,000,000,000 tons).

You would have to multiply that combined mass by 1471 to get 4.3 Octillion tons. So basically, Sun dipped Superman practically moved the weight of 1471 solar systems that consist of planets with an equal amount of mass as our solar system.

so now we put this in a 24 hour time period. Keep in mind Superboy Prime is wearing his solar armor which returned him to normal power power levels after being pushed into a red sun for several by the flash family. So based off this he is stronger than he normally is. Also Superboy Prime is invulnerable to magic:

I believe he can beat Spawn, Thor, and GR with his magic resistance. If not than Top can help some of mental abilities:

He can them a feeling of vertigo distracting them long enough for Superboy Prime to take them out. Now Alan can fight Sentry and Sersi.

#22 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: Wow, nice counter. did not see that coming. Guess me and my partner will have to work for it.

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#23 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: @cadencev2: @joeagentofhand1: Look at that the boys are back in town. Lets dance

The plan is pretty much layed out. In prep, I stated Guardian would use that time to sync with the planets EM field, tech and neuro pathways. My partner wants my cyborg Guardian to take out your Reed. Also, I can convert the EM field to my will, which means I actually make SBP have permanent yellow energy around him

Here is cyborg Guardian manipulating Galactus with his EM control...which is power cosmic in case you are questioning the above definition of what cyborg guardian can do. Clearly one shots Galactus

Guardian can now sync with Reeds tech from afar. This is him syncing with the Master of the Worlds tech instantly during his human days. The cybernetic Guardian was the suit integrated into his body. He is the suit so therefore any feats would still pertain.

Here is human Guardian synching with the Master of the Worlds tech instantly

What makes this fascinating is that the human Guardian due to his suit was able to instantly sync with Master of the Worlds tech yet it took Iron Man, Pym, Black Knight and Stingray substantially longer

Now remember, that was human Guardian synching with Master's tech. Cyborg Guardian thinks way faster then that as explained by Madison Jeffries

Here is a shot of cyborg Guardian bypassing Doom tech in coordination with his EM ability and chokes Doom

So basically Im coming after Reeds tech. And also I can send a neuro shut down of brainwaves in the area of your team

#25 Posted by beatboks1 (6386 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice battle so far. This should be good

#26 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio
#27 Edited by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: @thundergodswrath: @cadencev2: to get more in detail how Guardian will get past the tech Reed has presented

Bio Bomb

Bio Bombs. These alien soldiers, that Reed made, are genetic creatures with Uber Powers in their Humanoid forms. They can explode in a instant, and rapidly grow into Slug Beasts. He uses the Satellites in the sky to jack and target targets, with deadly accuracy, via Vortex Teleportation.

Bio bombs are formidable but....as presented, the Master of the Worlds tech is also organic in nature too as stated by Tony Stark. Bio - organic...they the same thing.

As for the satellites targeting system, you want targeting satellites in the planets orbit when I already synced both Magneto and Guardian to the planets EM spectrum.


First Knife. Reed created the Cyborg First Knife. A Being that moves fast enough to dodge lightning at point blank and speed blitz Thor who has Reaction Time comparable to Quick Silver and Hyperion!

First off, is this thing metal??? Magneto...metal...

As for the speed aspect, Mags and Guardian are attuned to the entire planets spectrum. They will pickup disturbances like radar to react like how Mags reacts to Northstar


Hard Light Construct Helmet. Reed made this device to allow him to use up Energy of the entire Eastern US into powerful Constructs.

Im not going to repost the scans but Guardian and Mags are intuned to the entire planet. I think that trumps Eastern seaboard of the US


Fantastic 5. Although Namor wrecked it before Reed could get his force field up, it was stated to mimic the Fantastic 4 power set and even double the powers level.

interesting, still tech tho. I could just BFR the thing with Mags

or guardian syncs with it and disables it (repeat scan)

as you can see, Alan Scott and SBP are the tanks. My team is more the support. But thats my view against Reed tech since time freeze was nullified by Alan Scott and the starheart

#28 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: Well, its hard to say you can control Reed tech at all. You make a big deal out of the Master of Worlds tech... who cares? What feats does it have as a leading and best tech?

Reed has by pass the tech of Gah Lak Tus (Ultimate Galactus) which was the most advance tech in the Universe.

Reed has easily by pass both the SHIELD and Baxter Building Think Tank which contain the most scientific minds on the planet.

Reed even conquers the N-Zone which had Tech far more advance than what Earth has.

Reed does all this with his knowledge. A bonus is the fact Reed has detail info on the Marvel Multiverse and the tech and beings in it.

All 3 scans examples of this.

Also you forget the Cosmic Cube that Reed has. It will be hard to sync with the world EM Spectrum when Reed can disrupt that via Cosmic Cube alone.

Scan 1) CC Flash Freezes a Planet.

Scan 2) CC Rearranges Planet to suit Thanos needs.

Scan 3) CC rused by Reed returns earth to normal.

Scan 4) CC turns the planets Oceans into Stone.

Since Reed is 10 times smarter than anyone here, I think it is safe to say he can undo or battle off, or at the least make your control anything but absolute of the EM Spectrum.

1) Aliens using different Energy Frequency on the Cubes Defenses to try and keep it adapting.

2) Turning Flesh into Energy.

3) Turning Energy into Flesh.

Reed has master control over Energy here. So much of your statements is not going to happen as you plan.

In fact I doubt Magneto can do anything to Reed in his safety Barrier of the Cube Barrier he has up. So no controlling my Cyborg, Children, ect...

Your not Electro Magnetic doing anything to Reed or anyone in the safety of his bubble. At all. Both your character are out match here.

Also the Cosmic Cube, only responds to Reeds Thoughts and Will.

So my friend, your going to need a whole new plan.

Mean While my team is bombarding your with Anti Matter Bombs via Wormholes.

Your team is not surviving a onslaught of these.

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#29 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Since you have not debated against SBP defeating your other guys I am assuming that you agree that they lose. Keep in mind SBP has shown that "hecanmovefast".

With Alan controlling time your time protection of Reed I believe Superboy Prime can attack him. Based off what I saw of the scan you posted of the force field around Reed it only tanked a hit from Thing who is not as strong as SBP(it was kind of hard to read so if I missed something in the text then my bad). Unless Reed can react to things moving around light speeds, there is not much Reed can do.

#30 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: Well, to be honest SBP is a non factor....

Let me say that again. SBP is a non factor.

He cannot hurt Hell King Spawn. Only Holy Weapons can beat him.

He cannot hurt Zarathos Ghost Rider. Again only powerful Magic and Holy Weapons can beat him.

He cannot touch Reed through his CC Time Freeze and Barrier or if Reed decide to go to his Z-Zone Base and fight from that Dimension.

SBP is a non factor and useless tool. Sry. ;)

@thundergodswrath Where in same hill are you?

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#31 Edited by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@joeagentofhand1: Well, to be honest SBP is a non factor....

Let me say that again. SBP is a non factor.

He cannot hurt Hell King Spawn. Only Holy Weapons can beat him.

He cannot hurt Zarathos Ghost Rider. Again only powerful Magic and Holy Weapons can beat him.

He cannot touch Reed through his CC Time Freeze and Barrier or if Reed decide to go to his Z-Zone Base and fight from that Dimension.

SBP is a non factor and useless tool. Sry. ;)

A non factor against your team, but not TGW' team. Also your guys(excluding Richards) can't hurt Prime with his immunity to magic:

Thanks for the information though, now I know Alan can hurt GR and possibly Hell King Spawn. Alan's power sorce is the starheart:

When the Guardians of the Universe first sought to establish order in the universe, they decided the stars were to feel only the power of technology. The Guardians travelled througout the universe gathering stray bits of chaotic magic in a massive cleanup effort to eliminate all magic from the universe. This assembled magic was then stored inside of a star in space. Over time the magic gained a sentience, becoming a living Green Flame, the Starheart, and it sought to escape it's prison.

So the starheart gives Alan power over powerful magic. Magic powerful enough to allow him to battle the likes of Mordru:

If I recall correctly Mordru is a Lord of Chaos. I don't see what is to stop Alan from doing this to GR:

#32 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Edited by New_World_Order (11177 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay, sorry. Haven't really been on Comicvine in some time. Time for me to put my work in.

Your team is formidable, but our team has basically a counter for everyone on yours.

Superboy Prime is probably going to be the easiest person on your team to take out. Only one character is need to take him down, and that's Ghost Rider. Yes Superboy Prime will maul through him physically. But it won't do anything, because well Ghost Rider will end up getting possessed by Zarathos, and physical strikes cannot hurt him. Zarathos is very powerful, and is fully capable of defeating Prime. All it would take is his unbreakable chains + Penance Stare. He will bound Prime with the chains, which have held powerful angels in place, and than penance stare him. Prime won't know looking into Zarathos's eyes will be his demise. Also BFR is not an option since Zarathos can teleport between realms.

I also don't see how anyone in this battle can take Thor on physically. The guy is in the Destroyer Amour, wielding the Odin Sword. If anything he can brawl with Prime for as long as it takes, until Zarathos gets to him.

Hell King Spawns telepathic powers mixed with Sersi, and Sentry's can literally tear this whole battle up. Spawn, and Sentry are both capable planet level telepaths, and Sersi is a capable telepath. They can literally have your team fighting each other while they come up with a plan. Top should be very easy to mind control, and his dizzy inducing effects would backfire on your team. When Sersi is done with him, she can easily kill him. She has molecule manipulation to a very high regard. To the point that she is one of or the strongest Eternal their is. Even surpassing Zuras who fears her greatly. She can literally turn Top from an adult to a baby. She has turn Captain America into a teenage in the past. ( Sorry don't have the scans though )

She can also make an Adamanite shield out of nothing, and just using her molecule manipulation. Just so you know, Adamanite equals Adamantium. Meaning it's going to be just as indestructible as the Destroyer Amour Thor's wearing.

This shield can be used in two ways. The common way is too use it as a shield to protect the team, and the next way is to trap your team. 5 steps to it. First step- If she was to put an Adamanite shield around your team, they would be unable to get out. Only 3 people in this battle have potential to break out of it. Although it will be too late. Second step-Sersi can than proceed to use her molecule manipulation to make a hole in the shield. Third step-Than Hell King Spawn & Zarathos come in. Their job will be too hold down the other team trapped in the adamanite shield with their unbreakable chains so they don't escape from the hole. Fourth step-Than Ultimate Reed Richards & Thor will come in. They will be the destructive duo.Thor's full on Visor beams from the Destroyer Amour, couple with a full on amped Mjolnir throw, and storms, and Reed throwing multiple bio bombs all into the hole. The destruction will be horrific, and it's very doubtful anyone on your team can survive that. Not even Prime or Alan. The 5, and last step will be Sersi, and a Voided out Sentry using their molecule manipulation powers to not only enclose the hole with the destructive blast still in it, but to also strengthen the shield.

Here Sersi shows she can easily fix back structures with her molecule manipulation, so re-fixing the adamanite shield won't be a problem.

Oh, and for you wondering how Sentry voided out. It's because Sentry got overwhelmed like always with all the power, in-which he became unstable. Causing the Void to resurface.

Too who ever's left alive will be far to damage to put up a fight. ( Which I doubt anyone would alive too) In-which the Void will kill them in a brutal way using his molecule manipulation. Picture it the same way as it was with Loki.

#34 Posted by New_World_Order (11177 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, and about Alan Scott being able to defeat Ghost Rider, because he fought Mordru doesn't mean much. Ghost Rider has fought, and defeated demons with half of Satan's power. Which should be more than Mordru's overall power. Also people believe Mephisto to be Satan, although he is not. Than Mordru would probably be more powerful. The one Ghost Rider books have is a different Satan than Mephisto, and is likely to be the real Satan. I don't believe Mordru is as powerful as his classic days, and has gone through quite a depowerment. He just doesn't seem as powerful. The question is do you believe Alan Scott can survive a penance stare? It is quite obvious that Alan Scott has more overall power than everyone in this match. Versatility is key here though.

#35 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: I will form an argument later, but Mordru was able to defeat the Wizard and Nabu(Nabu was able to give Spectre a good fight). Yes he has been through depowerment, but Alan was able to take on Mordru who had the power of both Arion and Nabu. The reason he lost is due to Alan holding back.

#36 Posted by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: @joeagentofhand1: @thundergodswrath: Im asking for a judgment.

@boschepg said:

the tourney rules stated:

  • No reality warpers ( unless it's small reality warping )
  • No omnipotent, present, or science beings

and we have been given a margin of reality warping, in which Im fine with but I believe the examples cadence has given as limits for the CC is too OP and thus would sway some new voters by reading his examples. Im requesting 1- of determination of eligibility with examples given 2- if just showing of power, it be stricken (edited out) as to not sway new voters when reading feats if not actually being used or eligible. The example Im requesting to be stricken are as follows:


Also you forget the Cosmic Cube that Reed has. It will be hard to sync with the world EM Spectrum when Reed can disrupt that via Cosmic Cube alone.

Scan 1) CC Flash Freezes a Planet.

Scan 2) CC Rearranges Planet to suit Thanos needs.

Scan 3) CC rused by Reed returns earth to normal.

Scan 4) CC turns the planets Oceans into Stone.

1- turning an entire planets ecosphere (done twice in example) is no way small warping. I thought it was early early Scarlet Witch. Skrull Crusader has a piece of the Cosmic Cube and his warping is only limited to 15 feet.

2-rearranging an entire planet to the wish of Thanos

#37 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: It seems as though you did not read my argument. SBP is immune to magic(this has been shown multiple times):

Read what Prime says to Zauriel. His sword does not affect him; an angelic weapon made in Heaven has no affect on Prime

So the GR plan is out, but how was even supposed to tag Prime? Prime has been sundipped for 24 with his solar armor on and is still getting sundipped. Basically is stronger than he normally is. Alan and Superboy Prime are unaffected by transmutation and the like.

Alan is unaffected by Extant's time manipulation. Keep in mind Extant is a team buster. Let's not forgot how inconsistent Sentry is. I am not an expert on him, but during WWH he said He finally let go implying he was going all out(to my knowledge that is when he voids out) and lost.

Can Thor, Sentry, or Sersi react to Prime moving as fast as light? Also Top is immune to telepathy or magical mumbo jumbo commands

#38 Edited by New_World_Order (11177 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: Yes Alan has more power than Zarathos, but that won't matter. He doesn't need it. All he would need to do is get off a Penance Stare, which he probably can with distractions or binding with chains or just plain out looking into his eyes. Which is highly likely to happen.

Also when did I say Prime wasn't immune to magic? Never said that. Also the reason why Morlun couldn't transmute Prime is because his powers are magic based. Sersi's are not.

She has absolute control over what she's transmuting. Although she may not be able to do it alone. The Void is their to help. So molecule manipulation can still work on Prime, just not Alan.

To how they can tag Prime is they can have Hell King Spawn, or Ultimate Reed Richards stop time. Yes I know Alan can also do this, but can he overcome to time stoppers?

Sentry was not voided out in that fight. When was a morals off Sentry ever said to be the void? Their basically 2 different entities When the Sentry isn't stable, the Void takes over. The Void has more power based off of feats, and showings, but the Sentry's light based attacks seem to overpower the Void. I can see where people thought the Void was a morals off Sentry. As for the fight with World War Hulk, what's the problem? On this website people would argue that the Sentry should have won that battle based off of one thing. Speed. They wanted the Hulk to look even more tough, by having him trade blows equally with their star hero at the time Sentry. So they didn't let him use his speed. The Sentry is extremely fast, although people may not know.

The Top is shown taking a telepathic attack from Zatanna. The assault our team is launching consists of Hell King Spawn, Sentry (planet level telepaths), and Sersi. All very capable telepath's. Is it not possible for their combined might to overcome his defenses?

#39 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@cadencev2: @joeagentofhand1: @thundergodswrath: Im asking for a judgment.

@boschepg said:

the tourney rules stated:

  • No reality warpers ( unless it's small reality warping )
  • No omnipotent, present, or science beings

and we have been given a margin of reality warping, in which Im fine with but I believe the examples cadence has given as limits for the CC is too OP and thus would sway some new voters by reading his examples. Im requesting 1- of determination of eligibility with examples given 2- if just showing of power, it be stricken (edited out) as to not sway new voters when reading feats if not actually being used or eligible. The example Im requesting to be stricken are as follows:

1- turning an entire planets ecosphere (done twice in example) is no way small warping. I thought it was early early Scarlet Witch. Skrull Crusader has a piece of the Cosmic Cube and his warping is only limited to 15 feet.

2-rearranging an entire planet to the wish of Thanos

I will respond as everything I posted is Transmutation.

Everything Reed and Thanos did with the cube was through knowledge of Science. Freezing the Planet because it has water in the Atmosphere. Stoning the Seas by transforming a Liquid into a Solid.

Energy to Mass and back is also transmuatation.

So I see no real Reality Warping here. Every Feat requires a present component to work.

So naaaay!

@thundergodswrath: I will form an argument later, but Mordru was able to defeat the Wizard and Nabu(Nabu was able to give Spectre a good fight). Yes he has been through depowerment, but Alan was able to take on Mordru who had the power of both Arion and Nabu. The reason he lost is due to Alan holding back.

Nabu gave Specter a good fight with Prep to draw on power.

Ohhhhhhhhh snap!

Power of Satan vs Power of Ghost Rider!

This is Lucifer at full power.

Zarathos effortlessly pwns a Half Power Lucifer with no trouble.

Trump!

@thundergodswrath: It seems as though you did not read my argument. SBP is immune to magic(this has been shown multiple times):

So the GR plan is out, but how was even supposed to tag Prime? Prime has been sundipped for 24 with his solar armor on and is still getting sundipped. Basically is stronger than he normally is. Alan and Superboy Prime are unaffected by transmutation and the like.

Alan is unaffected by Extant's time manipulation. Keep in mind Extant is a team buster. Let's not forgot how inconsistent Sentry is. I am not an expert on him, but during WWH he said He finally let go implying he was going all out(to my knowledge that is when he voids out) and lost.

Can Thor, Sentry, or Sersi react to Prime moving as fast as light? Also Top is immune to telepathy or magical mumbo jumbo commands

What keeps Prime form BFR to Hell again? Nothing?!

GR BFRs via Hell Fire the Demon Cowboys and what was left of the town into the Realm of the Ghost Riders.

Goodbye SBP. Magic Immunity or not.

Also SBP cannot speed blitz. the saftey of Reeds Time Freeze zone, remember?

Now what can Spawn do as Hell King that IMO trumps everyone? Oh yeah, Unlimited Necro Power!

Alan Scott is Screwed. What keeps Spawn moving at the Speed of Light Teleport inside Alan Scott and rip his Star Heart out?

Teleportation

Both Scans showing Spawn's Light Speed Teleporting.

Here spawn uses Teleporting as a instant kill attack!

Bamsky!

Online
#40 Edited by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@cadencev2: @joeagentofhand1: @thundergodswrath: Im asking for a judgment.

@boschepg said:

the tourney rules stated:

  • No reality warpers ( unless it's small reality warping )
  • No omnipotent, present, or science beings

and we have been given a margin of reality warping, in which Im fine with but I believe the examples cadence has given as limits for the CC is too OP and thus would sway some new voters by reading his examples. Im requesting 1- of determination of eligibility with examples given 2- if just showing of power, it be stricken (edited out) as to not sway new voters when reading feats if not actually being used or eligible. The example Im requesting to be stricken are as follows:

1- turning an entire planets ecosphere (done twice in example) is no way small warping. I thought it was early early Scarlet Witch. Skrull Crusader has a piece of the Cosmic Cube and his warping is only limited to 15 feet.

2-rearranging an entire planet to the wish of Thanos

I will respond as everything I posted is Transmutation.

Everything Reed and Thanos did with the cube was through knowledge of Science. Freezing the Planet because it has water in the Atmosphere. Stoning the Seas by transforming a Liquid into a Solid.

Energy to Mass and back is also transmuatation.

So I see no real Reality Warping here. Every Feat requires a present component to work.

So naaaay!

@thundergodswrath @joeagentofhand1 everything is science,,,even magic. You have a science item (the Cube) which "transmutates" item on a planetary scale...we know its . Its science. Im not questioning what it does, Im claiming the feat listed that I pointed out are too OP according to the rules and will sway votes if seen if you are not using it. Ill await ruling.

#41 Posted by New_World_Order (11177 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: @cadencev2 If you think about it, both of you are right. It's science they used to find out how to do those stuff, but those stuff can be considered transmution too. In my opinion I may just let this go and go on with the debate. We have plenty other strategy's to use.

#42 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg: @cadencev2 If you think about it, both of you are right. It's science they used to find out how to do those stuff, but those stuff can be considered transmution too. In my opinion I may just let this go and go on with the debate. We have plenty other strategy's to use.

So are we letting go of the Cube?

Online
#43 Edited by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: @thundergodswrath: @cadencev2:

@thundergodswrath said:

Hell King Spawns telepathic powers mixed with Sersi, and Sentry's can literally tear this whole battle up. Spawn, and Sentry are both capable planet level telepaths, and Sersi is a capable telepath. They can literally have your team fighting each other while they come up with a plan. Top should be very easy to mind control, and his dizzy inducing effects would backfire on your team. When Sersi is done with him, she can easily kill him. She has molecule manipulation to a very high regard. To the point that she is one of or the strongest Eternal their is. Even surpassing Zuras who fears her greatly. She can literally turn Top from an adult to a baby. She has turn Captain America into a teenage in the past. ( Sorry don't have the scans though )


actually, this is where my team comes in. Magneto and Guardian can both block TP on a wide degree

Here is Guardian canceling out the TP effect on both Alpha Flight and Fantastic Four

Here is Magneto showing TP Immunity and the ability to rearrange the blood flow in the brain and alot of other anti TP related stuff...like blocking Jean Greys TP

Magneto can also control the flow of your blood to actually take physical possession of a body

You got to remember, Guardian and Magneto took the Super Saiyan power up with the giant planets EM field

Here is Magneto taking on Proteus...who is a reality warper..and Magneto wins

Sersi is nowhere unbeatable. She took it badly from Exodus

Now you also got to remember that Eternals can "die." If they receive enough force their atoms disperse to a degree. SBP is getting forever yellow sun energy from our EM manipulators. Its not sundip x 24 hours. He is walking sundip. Here is a shot of a lava monster taking out Gilgamesh. During this time, the Eternals city was getting ripped apart by Blastaar

Ill be back later cuz Cadence isnt telling the full story about Ultimate Reed tech. It can be hacked. Better get your aspirin

#44 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: I need to know, can I use my Transmutation Cube of Science, or not?

Online
#45 Edited by boschePG (1973 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: @cadencev2: @thundergodswrath: as we await the decision ill kill more time

These scans are telling me what? There is no way to tell how powerful or not Lucifer is in this scan since Ghost Rider even said that he was depowered due to capturing one of his underlings and Lucifer not knowing he was depowered. Agatha Harkness cat once ripped apart Mephisto in West Coast Avengers, but Agatha even admitted that since Mephisto's soul was incomplete, the reason Master Pandemonium was gathering pieces of Mephisto's shattered souls, that it opened an opening for the victory

#46 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg:

Stop it! You look proactive and making me look bad!

Online
#47 Edited by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@boschepg said:

@joeagentofhand1: @cadencev2: @thundergodswrath: as we await the decision ill kill more time

These scans are telling me what? There is no way to tell how powerful or not Lucifer is in this scan since Ghost Rider even said that he was depowered due to capturing one of his underlings and Lucifer not knowing he was depowered. Agatha Harkness cat once ripped apart Mephisto in West Coast Avengers, but Agatha even admitted that since Mephisto's soul was incomplete, the reason Master Pandemonium was gathering pieces of Mephisto's shattered souls, that it opened an opening for the victory

Let me Explain. Lucifer at full power as showed by Dr. Strange would shatter the very planet.

Now lets look at the LAST 2 SCANS!

This Lucifer was Half the power of the Dr. Strange stated Hell Lord Lucifer overall power. Easily beaten due to Half his Power locked away in a avatars body.

When he came to earth, he shattered into 666 peices, each sharing 666th of his total power. The power distributes evenly as stated by Lucifer, Strange, and Cleo.

Bamsky.

Online
#48 Edited by New_World_Order (11177 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath said:

@boschepg: @cadencev2 If you think about it, both of you are right. It's science they used to find out how to do those stuff, but those stuff can be considered transmution too. In my opinion I may just let this go and go on with the debate. We have plenty other strategy's to use.

So are we letting go of the Cube?

Sadly, yes.

@boschepg said:

@joeagentofhand1: @thundergodswrath: @cadencev2:

@thundergodswrath said:

Hell King Spawns telepathic powers mixed with Sersi, and Sentry's can literally tear this whole battle up. Spawn, and Sentry are both capable planet level telepaths, and Sersi is a capable telepath. They can literally have your team fighting each other while they come up with a plan. Top should be very easy to mind control, and his dizzy inducing effects would backfire on your team. When Sersi is done with him, she can easily kill him. She has molecule manipulation to a very high regard. To the point that she is one of or the strongest Eternal their is. Even surpassing Zuras who fears her greatly. She can literally turn Top from an adult to a baby. She has turn Captain America into a teenage in the past. ( Sorry don't have the scans though )


actually, this is where my team comes in. Magneto and Guardian can both block TP on a wide degree

Here is Guardian canceling out the TP effect on both Alpha Flight and Fantastic Four

Here is Magneto showing TP Immunity and the ability to rearrange the blood flow in the brain and alot of other anti TP related stuff...like blocking Jean Greys TP

Magneto can also control the flow of your blood to actually take physical possession of a body

You got to remember, Guardian and Magneto took the Super Saiyan power up with the giant planets EM field

Here is Magneto taking on Proteus...who is a reality warper..and Magneto wins

Sersi is nowhere unbeatable. She took it badly from Exodus

Now you also got to remember that Eternals can "die." If they receive enough force their atoms disperse to a degree. SBP is getting forever yellow sun energy from our EM manipulators. Its not sundip x 24 hours. He is walking sundip. Here is a shot of a lava monster taking out Gilgamesh. During this time, the Eternals city was getting ripped apart by Blastaar

Ill be back later cuz Cadence isnt telling the full story about Ultimate Reed tech. It can be hacked. Better get your aspirin

None of the Fantastic 4 have telepathic abilities, so what exactly could have been canceled out? Although the Alpha Flight does, it's nothing close to the combined might of our team. So it's not certain it will work.

Also Magneto only has T/P resistance due to the helmet he wears. If Sersi wanted to, she could transmute it into snakes or something making him lose his immunity Magneto doesn't worry me too much, because his durability is rather poor, and all it would take is one morals off hit from anyone on our team to kill him.

You do know Sersi has set the very air on fire, and has complete control over her molecules right? She has been ripped apart atom from atom, and has still reformed. Also loosing to Exodus isn't bad when this guy took on 2 X-Men teams with 12+ members. Hope & Rachel included. Last time I checked Magneto doesn't do as well.

#49 Posted by Pokergeist (22329 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1: @thundergodswrath: @boschepg:

As TGW stated, Magento is not immune to TP at all. Infact he been mind raped many times and still is to this day.

Also cancelling TP from weak Telepaths and try to use that as proof against 2 World Level TPs and Sersi.

Hack Reeds tech... definatly not. Tony Stark Technopathy Tumore could not "hack" Reeds tech. It could only try to convinve it in a debate that Reed was the bad guy.

Thats it. Reeds Tech not only has never been hacked, but Reed has Hacked Tony Starks Tech, SHIELDs tech, and the remaining Super Geniuses of the World in the Baxter Building Tech.

Sorry, not happening.

Reed does not have the Cube. Who cares? He still has his City with all his resources as well a Base in the Negative Zone with all his toys.

New Plan Then

Reed makes all the gear I mention, then uses it from the safety of the N-Zone. Reed also once made Technopathy and Psy proof Suits to counter a foe with World Wide Mind Powers and Control over Machines. He actually embedded a Virus to infect the person who tried to "hack" their suits.

So jacking Reed's tech.... HAHAHA....

Next up Reed will simply stay in the Negative Zone and through his Vortexes spam Anti Matter Bombs and Bio Bombs.

Your team is not surviving a onslaught of these.

Or these.

Also through the Vortexes Reed can shoot the Big Bang Gun.

Big Bang Gun = Instant death.

Ghost Rider at this time can fight your team head on, all the Physical Damage cannot hurt the Rider. So he is safe.

Spawn can still kill Magneto at the Speed of Light like so.

We win. You have no defense vs Spawn, no way to kill GR, and cannot touch Reed in the N-Zone.

Online
#50 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4123 posts) - - Show Bio

@thundergodswrath: @cadencev2:

As I have shown before Spawn, Ghost Rider, and Thor can't harm SBP in away way possible including the penance stare(it is magical in nature so yeah). Alan has shown to be a powerful magic user. GR can be defeated by powerful magic. Also there have multiple times when the penance stare has back fired(the only ones I remember are Deapool and Venom). Well Alan has reversed powers on people before:

This can also go with your guys TP. So if Sentry, Sersi, and Spawn decide to do a TP attack they are under his control. With the whole teleporting thing for Spawn to my knowledge he has only did that once and the guy was not even moving at all, in the slightest. I don't think he has done the teleporting thing with a moving enemy. Also the teleporting wont work on Alan seeing as he can go intangible:

His being is also composed of all starheart energy's so yeah. Also if Sersi and Sentry aren't mind zombies at this point I don't see a scan of them manipulating matter on enemies moving(Loki was just kind of laying down and the pig was standing still). Kryptonians get stronger an move faster from exposure to yellow sun radiation(he still exposed to it thanks to bosche). SBP already has shown to have travel times around light speed and reaction speeds around light(scans I showed before). Remember the time he soloed the JSA, Doom Patrol, and Teen Titans? Guess what he wasn't even trying:

Top can also move at ftl speeds:

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you have shown your characters reacting to things moving at the speed of light(teleporting is not reacting Spawn reacted to a buff thug standing still).

So about the Lucifer thing yeah you might have "trumped" my Nabu argument, but in the scan where Mordru attacks him he had even more power than normal(as I said he was powered up by Arion and Nabu). Also based off the scan Morningstar broke the planet which is what Superman like characters can do(then again it is kind of vague how he does this, in my opinion).