T'Challa vs Parker

Black Panther

Spiderman

Rules:

• What if scenario: T'Challa has not been exiled from Wakanda and has access to all of his equipment. (That includes his current tech)
• The Vibranium in Wakanda is active, this T'Challa has access to his Vibranium equipment
• Both fighters are aware that they are going to fight each other and have 30 minutes to prepare.
• Fight takes in Manhattan with no civilians.

Stipulations:

• Round 1: Morals on
• Round 2: Morals off (not holding back/ willing to kill)

so basically, Black Panther vs Spiderman?

Pete all the way

Black Panther has been getting the short end of the stick as of late, so I basically made a what-if scenario of what he would be at his best.

Im not even sure if Parker is alive right now, so this had to be a what if scenario.

@jashro44 Speak your mind!?!?!?!?

With 30 minutes prep Black Panther wins round 1 easily, and round 2 will be a bit more of a challenge but T'Challa still wins.

@street_level_hero:

So does Peter.

Round 1: Panther

Round 2: Parker

With morals off, he amps himself with the Peter Particles, puts on an armored suit, and demolishes.

With 30 minutes prep Black Panther wins both rounds.

There can only be one winner. Black Panther wins with morals on because Black Panther is more vicious than Pete, and with round 2 Black Panther's tech trumps Pete's "morals-off" mode.

Peter wouldn't just get instantly powerful with Alpha particles. It would take time.

I'd back Peter in two hard-fought matches. Narrowly. 6/10 or perhaps even a 5.5/10.

Panther really doesn't have an answer to Peter's spider-sense, and carries standard plenty of incap-related gear. He could modify his EotE suit or grab his stealth suit and not to mention the spider-glider he had. Hell he could jsut as easily install the tech upgrades SpOck had in his own suit.

30 minutes isn't a lot of time, and prep aside Peter has much better feats of improvisation which will count for more with such short prep.

@jashro44:

I'd imagine he could find away to overcome the time limit.

Black Panther has several armors as well and they are made of Vibranium, Plus his Kimoyo card makesPeter's armor a liability rather than an asset. He just locks up Pete's armor and cuts him in half with the Ebony Blade.

In 30 minutes? No way.

@street_level_hero:

There can only be one winner. Black Panther wins with morals on because Black Panther is more vicious than Pete, and with round 2 Black Panther's tech trumps Pete's "morals-off" mode.

Peter's tech is also very impressive.

Black Panther has several armors as well and they are made of Vibranium, Plus his Kimoyo card makes armor a liability rather than an asset. He just locks up Pete's armor and cuts him in half with the Ebony Blade.

I'd say Peter's suits are generally more impressive, Peter would blitz Panther before he could have a chance of using it.

Black Panther has more tech at his disposal Than Pete though and much better tech/prep feats than Peter.

I would argue that T'challa's suits are more impressive, especially since they are comprised of Vibranium, and Black panther can just hack Spidey's suits and cause them to either lock up or explode or have the suit dislocate Pete's arms and legs or twist his neck 360 degrees. Also Black Panthers reaction feats can deal with Spidey's blitzes and use voice or thought activation with The Kimoyo card to instantly hack Pete's suit plus the vibranium will nullify Peters attacks anyway giving BP plenty of time to use the K card to hack.

Black Panther has more tech at his disposal Than Pete though and much better tech/prep feats than Peter.

Very debatable, I'd say Peter is better imo.

would argue that T'challa's suits are more impressive, especially since they are comprised of Vibranium, and Black panther can just hack Spidey's suits and cause them to either lock up or explode or have the suit dislocate Pete's arms and legs or twist his neck 360 degrees. Also Black Panthers reaction feats can deal with Spideys blitzes.

Peter's suits have allowed him to turn Carbonadium into paper. With certain amps Peter could give himself, breaking his limbs would be much more difficult. He could also use the Parker Particles to turn Panther into a cosmic monster and BFR him some where.

@bluejay4: @street_level_hero: You guys must remember, they only have 30 minutes of prep. That doesnt give either fighter much time.

Black Panther has way more Prep feats and has taken down Doom and Mephisto via prep. pete's prep feats are not better and he doesn't have nearly as many. T'challa also has a nations resources and tech and a veritable army of scientists and engineers.

Carbonadium if vastly inferior to Vibranium and BP's suit can protect him long enough to hack Spidey's armor. I referenced dislocation of limbs not breaking, much easier to achieve. Black Panther would be very aware of the Parker Particles and could simply remote teleport Peter and his entire lab into the sun while Peter was prepping.

I'm leaning this way myself. Still a little undecided though.

Yes I realize that, and Black Panther has more ready-to-go tech at his disposal as well as his standard equipment and a large team of scientists and engineers and robotic fabricators and 3d printers and such which means he can get much more done in 30 minutes than Pete can.

Black Panther has way more Prep feats and has taken down Doom and Mephisto via prep. pete's prep feats are not better and he doesn't have nearly as many. T'challa also has a nations resources and tech and a veritable army of scientists and engineers.

Seems very unlikely as one is a skyfather level character, and the other can take skyfather level characters with prep. I'll give Panther that, but Peter only has Horizon labs, guess that make his feats more impressive in away.

Carbonadium if vastly inferior to Vibranium and BP's suit can protect him long enough to hack Spidey's armor. I referenced dislocation of limbs not breaking, much easier to achieve. Black Panther would be very aware of the Parker Particles and could simply remote teleport Peter and his entire lab into the sun while Peter was prepping.

Spider Armor and Parker amp would turn Panther into a gooey mess inside the suit. Peter would likewise try to hack Panther's suit as well, if he somehow managed Peter from blitzing him that is. I doubt the card could break or dislocate his limbs, so show some feats to back it up. Says who? There's nothing to indicate that Panther would know about it. Your last point... really bro?

What seems unlikely? Black Panther killed Mephisto via prep and also Defeated a vibranium armored Doom with prep. These are on panel feats and not speculation. Black Panther has many solo prep feats that trump Pete's also but simply because BP is a master tactician and orchestrated the takedown of Mephisto does not make Spidey's more impressive, and he took out doom with a device of his own making. BP simply has better quantifiable prep feats that Pete, and most of them are solo prep feats.

Nah, Black Panther's armors are made of vibranium and magically enhanced as well, Spiderman will not do any real damage before BP hacks his armor. Peter only has 30 minutes and he is not going to create instantaneous parker particle amps and "gooey-mess-beams" ) and some super armor and a hack that can out-hack arguable one of the best hacking devices in the MU and a transformation and dfr device in only 30 minutes. And BP has superhuman speed and awesome speed/reaction feats so Spidey is not speed blitzing him whatsoever. Black Panther has better standard Equipment and better ready to use tech and magical artifacts and can get way more done in 30 minutes than Parker. Peters armor is what will dislocate his limbs after Black Panther Hacks it. BP's hacking feats trump Peter's also.

Yes, really @"your last point...really bro?": Black Panther Teleporting Pete into the sun while Pete is prepping is actually more viable than you stating as you saying that "He could also use the Parker Particles to turn Panther into a cosmic monster and BFR him some where." I simply trumped your improbable transmutaion/bfr with a tactical, pre-emptive strike, remote, teleport bfr.

I am not trying to be mean or condescending but I think you should familiarize yourself with Black Panther because he is one of the best Preppers in the MU and defeated Dr. Doom, (who as you stated had defeated skyfather level characters with prep), in a prep/actual war (research Doom War for details). Spider Man loses a prep battle with Black Panther 9/10 and possibly 10/10 especially with morals on for both as BP. Morals off will just be more difficult but the outcome will be the same: Doom and Mephisto are amoral after all and they both went down.If you are not familiar with these feats that suggests that you are not at all familiar with Black Panther as a whole.

Also here is Black panther killing Mephisto i.e., not only likely but and actual on panel feat (I am not trying to start a back and forth scan war, just showing you that it not only likely but and actual on panel feat, the last scan explaining in detail how he accomplished such an awesome feat).

I would have to say

Round 1: Panther because he has prep and Spidey isn't super serious in a fight when he is morals on. Plus BP kinda always has morals off.

Round 2: Spidey because its morals off Spider-man, and you gave him prep-time.

I do agree with you that Black Panther can get more done in 30 minutes than Parker can.

However the second part of your statement is majorly untrue now. Wakanda was just destroyed recently and its been made clear that it is in no way even close to being as technically advanced as it once was. 30 minutes is not enough time for Black Panther to create much anything, neither is it for Parker.

What the stipulations to the fight more or less mean is that Panther can possibly reinforce his current gear with Vibranium weaving. Without that he would get knocked around like a rag-doll.

You need to re-read your own OP more carefully. This is not Modern Day Wakanda according to you it is a "what if Wakanda of the past" and BP has access to all of his tech including current. Your last two sentences make you seem to be a bit biased: so basically you are now saying that all Black Panther could possible do as far as prep is maybe reinforce his suit with vibranium while Spidey has 30 minutes of prep and a lab full of equipment and his armors etc?

As far as the OP I have made no posts that violate any of the rules. You can't change the rules mid-way when a debate is not going the way you want it to.

Just let people debate without flip-flopping on the rules otherwise you may as well made a "Spiderman stomps Black Panther " thread.

I do not mean for this to come off as angry or malicious because I am not upset and mean no malice I am just being honest and matter-of-fact.

Your OP rules:

Rules:

• What if scenario: T'Challa has not been exiled from Wakanda and has access to all of his equipment. (That includes his current tech) <-----
• The Vibranium in Wakanda is active, this T'Challa has access to his Vibranium equipment <-------
• Both fighters are aware that they are going to fight each other and have 30 minutes to prepare.
• Fight takes in Manhattan with no civilians.

Stipulations:

• Round 1: Morals on
• Round 2: Morals off (not holding back/ willing to kill)

@street_level_hero:

What seems unlikely? Black Panther killed Mephisto via prep

Context, it means a lot. Him beating Mephisto comes across as bad writing. (Like Batman hurting Spectre)

and also Defeated a vibranium armored Doom with prep.

^^ Except this is even worse, because Doom had equal prep. Doom stole Pre Retcon Beyonder's powers, this alone should put Doom on a completely different level than Panther.

These are on panel feats and not speculation.

Just because Black Panther put Silver Surfer in an arm bar or Rulk punched out Uatu, doesn't mean it'd really happen, IMO those feats don't have any credibility and scream bad writing, even worse than speculating.

Black Panther has many solo prep feats that trump Pete's

Going to need to show me some these supposed feats till I submit.

also but simply because BP is a master tactician and orchestrated the takedown of Mephisto does not make Spidey's more impressive,

Taking down Mephisto is bad writing till you can prove me wrong.

does not make Spidey's more impressive,

My point with that was that Peter could accomplish similar feats without all the resources T'Challa had.

and he took out doom with a device of his own making. BP simply has better quantifiable prep feats that Pete, and most of them are solo prep feats.

^^ Read my previous points.

Nah, Black Panther's armors are made of vibranium and magically enhanced as well,

So like a cup holding a slushy? Except T'challa is the slushy and his armor is the cup.

Spiderman will not do any real damage

Sure he will. In fact this is exactly what he's going to do to Panther morals off

before BP hacks his armor.

If he can somehow regenerate his brain from mush, then sure. Panther also has to watch out for Peter hacking his suit.

7. Created a pass code to override Iron Man’s safeguards, showing impressive forward thinking and machinery knowledge.

Don't have the scans right now, but will post when I get them.

Peter only has 30 minutes and he is not going to create instantaneous parker particle amps and "gooey-mess-beams" ) and some super armor and a hack that can out-hack arguable one of the best hacking devices in the MU and a transformation and dfr device in only 30 minutes.

I don't think Peter could do all of that within 30 minutes, but I do think he could do something similar. Want proof?

And BP has superhuman speed and awesome speed/reaction feats so Spidey is not speed blitzing him whatsoever.

Better than Daredevil's?

Black Panther has better standard Equipment

Depends which standard gear were talking about here.

and better ready to use tech and magical artifacts and can get way more done in 30 minutes than Parker.

I only agree with the second point. The first and last don't have any sufficient proof to back them up.

Peters armor is what will dislocate his limbs after Black Panther Hacks it. BP's hacking feats trump Peter's also.

Feats that it would work on an amped Peter? Not like it would come to that anyways. And your hacking point? ^^^ Read above

BP's hacking feats trump Peter's also.

Wouldn't know, haven't seen any.

I'll get back to you, but for the most part my responses should be able to counter most of your later points.

I never said that this was a "what if Wakanda of the past" thats something that you just made up. I said that Black Panther was never exiled, which would imply present day considering he was just exiled from Wakanda. I did give him access to vibranium because without it he would lose. The "what if" would derive from "what if" Shuri did not exile him recently and he had Vibranium.

Nextly, you are the one who turned the fight into some sort of prep war with the 30 minutes I gave, which would be totally out of character for Parker in this scenario. In character, Parker uses prep time to form strategies unless he absolutely needs some kind of amp (which he doesn't).

Lastly me saying that T'Challa would get knocked around like a rag doll without Vibranium weaving isn't bias at all. T'Challa is not on the same level as Parker statistically. Even with his most current suit Parker would break through his shields and beat him, which is why I gave him access to his Vibranium equipment because he needs it.

Not to be rude but you just sounded like you were fanboying Black Panther instead of being reasonable.

Parker is a child and street hero. Panther's got this. Let's see...

-Born and raised in the most advanced civilization on the planet
-trained by warriors of said civilization
-access to the most dangerous metal in the world
-much more experience in battle and has been alive much longer
-Superhuman senses, Olympic-level strength, speed, reflexes, stamina, and agility, Genius-level intellect, Trained gymnast, acrobat and martial artist, Wields vibrainium uniform, boots, and equipment

Panther is immune to vibrainium. All he has to do is send out a vibrainium sound wave and bring Parker to his knees. His spider sense won't help him there.

None of that prevents him from getting webbed up. Please tell me where this vibranium sound wave comes from? And to his knees? What about villains like Shocker who have entire power sets revolving around sound? Or Shriek? They all failed with those tactics. Peter has less experience, and just as good a track record. WOTS training which is a martial style Panther has never seen, knows nothing of, and doesn't know what to expect from. No way around spider-sense. Adamantium is the most dangerous metal in the world. Peter is way above him physically, and a genius himself.

Panther both rounds. He'll deaden Parker's nerves with prep.

Wait so Black panther has access to the ruins of Wakanda here?

@bluejay4

Context, it means a lot. Him beating Mephisto comes across as bad writing. (Like Batman hurting Spectre)

Its not. He used a device which cut mephisto off from his dimension which allowed black panther to punch him in the face, and than used the souls of his ancestors to beat mephisto.

Just because Black Panther put Silver Surfer in an arm bar

Black panther never put silver surfer in an arm bar. Silver surfer was only pretending.

@street_level_hero: Just a few things: Peter carries far more than just web-shooters as standard gear. Ice pellets and magnetic webbing are two examples. The second being most of what you're discussing with what Peter can't do with prep are things he already has at his disposal (stealth suits, EotE armor, etc). Panther took down Mephisto with prep, you consider that valid, Parker took down Firelord without prep; should be valid as well. Plus it took more than 30 minutes for Panther to prep for Mephisto.

I disagree. Spider-man shouldn't be able to beat firelord without prep and there is no way that showing can be justified. The way black panther beat mephisto with prep made perfect sense. It doesn't exactly apply to this fight though.

That was more my point. Just because it happened doesn't make it valid, in this case it is irrelevant to the fight at hand.

The way black panther beat mephisto with prep made perfect sense. It doesn't exactly apply to this fight though

The fact that Mephisto didn't instantly destroy Panther is bad writing. Even worse than Spider-Man beating Fire lord. In all honestly, Peter has hurt people with similar durability before, so not really that much of a stretch to say he could beat Fire Lord.

It is valid though. It doesn't apply to this fight because the feat doesn't help him here and he only has 30 minutes.

No no valid to the fight! Not valid as in PIS!

Maybe I'm using the wrong words here?

Are you saying the fight with black panther and mephisto is PIS? Because I am saying that it isn't PIS. Black panther beat mephisto in a way which is perfectly valid. If someone were to make a black panther with a week of prep vs mephisto thread my response would be black panther already beat him.

It doesn't apply to this fight because Peter doesn't gain his powers from another dimension nor will feeding Peter the souls of black panthers noble ancestors really help. Plus black panther had months of prep IIRC.

Lol the bolded is what I'm saying. It's not PIS, but it isn't valid for this fight either.

@granitesoldier: OK then fair enough.

You haven't read the comic so I don't see where you get off in saying "the fact mephisto never instantly destroyed black panther is proof enough". T'challa had cut mephisto off from his realm with his prep which depowered mephisto for a minute, and during that minute black panther punched him in the face, and ripped his heart out. He then took mephisto to the realm of the panther Gods and started feeding him the souls of his noble ancestors. Mephisto couldn't stop feeding and the souls were too much for him to handle so mephisto would have to surrender to else he would have died.

Again there is nothing wrong with the way black panther beat mephisto. Spider-man has also hurt his hand punching tombstone (albeit one shotted him when he covered his hand in webbing), has failed to hurt morlun, has to hit lizard with everything he has and has hurt his hand, etc. None of those are even low showings for Peter. He isn't capable of hurting firelord, he has hurt a few characters in that tier but that isn't the norm for him nor was it explained how he hurt someone who is leagues above him.

Peter.

To me ice pellets and magnetic webbing are not standard gear for Spidey. Plus you are forgetting that Black Panther can teleport out of any webbing situation. I know peter has some these suits at his disposal, my assertion is that BP can hack these suits via the K-card.

I never stated that Spideys defeat of Firelord was invalid, although Mephisto is a much more powerful character than firelord so both are equally impressive feats (although BP's win was explained and handled in a more plausible manner imo than spidey defeating firelord but it still happened on panel so it is canon).

And yes, I realize that it took more than 30 minutes for BP to prep for Meph, that does not diminish the feat and it makes no difference as this is Spiderman and not Mephisto. I would argue that spiderman is nohwere near as powerful as Mephisto and i am sure most people would agree with that. A no morals 30 minute prep battle between these two is definitely going to be easily won by Black panther. A no morals fight will be more difficult but Black Panther has much more experience fighting a morals off fight, Spidey has little to no experience in this type of thing which still gives Black panther the edge in a morals off battle.

Black panther has many more prep feat wins than Spiderman so in my mind BP wins a morals on prep war with Spidey every time. A Random Encounter with standard equipment I would give Spiderman the Majority 6/10 or maybe 7/10 with morals on and 7/10 or perhaps 8/10 with morals off. Prep with morals I would give Black Panther 10/10 and without morals 8/10.

For the record I really like Spiderman and think he is a great character, BP is just a better prepper as feats have shown and is more ruthless in combat and in his strategies which I feel gives him the edge in this battle

@jashro44:

You haven't read the comic so I don't see where you get off in saying "the fact mephisto never instantly destroyed black panther is proof enough". T'challa had cut mephisto off from his realm with his prep which depowered mephisto for a minute,

Cutting Mephisto off from his realm before he could destroy Panther is what's BS.

Spider-man has also hurt his hand punching tombstone (albeit one shotted him when he covered his hand in webbing), has failed to hurt morlun, has to hit lizard with everything he has and has hurt his hand, etc. None of those are even low showings for Peter. He isn't capable of hurting firelord, he has hurt a few characters in that tier but that isn't the norm for him nor was it explained how he hurt someone who is leagues above him.

I'd be willing to bet for that every 1... low end showing? I could bring up 2 or 4 "High end showings."

@bluejay4:

Cutting Mephisto off from his realm before he could destroy Panther is what's BS.

No its not. Mephisto wasn't even aware black panther cut him off. Again read the comic before making judgement.

I'd be willing to bet for that every 1... low end showing? I could bring up 2 or 4 "High end showings."

You wouldn't. The fact that spider-mans own rogues gallery consists of street levellers and mid tiers and no cosmic characters is proof enough.

Spider-man really can't beat firelord. Firelord could just blow up the planet and be done with the fight. As for Peter and his standard gear in Slotts run he stated the magnetic webbing and freeze capsules were standard. Currently they are standard gear.

1. It doesn't matter if you consider them standard. They are. Slott has been writing him as such.
2. See my dialogue with @jashro44, when it comes to this fight the Mephisto feat doesn't really factor into the argument and doesn't support anything.
3. 30 minutes is not really a lot of prep. It's grab your gear and go basically. There's still a large amount of improvisation required on the battlefield, which Peter is the master of.
4. Panther has more prep feats than Peter because only in recent years has Peter had the resources to prep. Ever since working at Horizon we've seen what Peter can do with his mind, which is comparable to the top minds in Marvel. So judging Peter on his current prep-record, even against known prep-masters like Ock, he's pretty damn good. Quality, not quantity, should be a determining factor. Factor in the improvisation he's shown and he has an X factor.
5. Being ruthless more often isn't really a justification for winning. Peter routinely faces foes trying to kill him (Carnage come to mind?) so Panther trying to kill him isn't really any different. It's like saying Batman loses to Shredder because Shredder is willing to kill and Batman isn't. Batman's always dealing with enemies trying to kill him. So Panther trying to kill Peter won't change much, especially since Peter is trying to kill Panther.

It's not about who likes who more. I like Spidey and Panther both just fine. Both are great characters. It's not really about that in this debate though, I wasn't suggesting your stance was borne of favoritism.

No its not. Mephisto wasn't even aware black panther cut him off. Again read the comic before making judgement.

That's like me not knowing my house is burning while I'm in it. It still sounds like a whole lot of BS.

You wouldn't.

I can try.

No its actually a lot more like me hitting you from behind with a baseball bat. Again read the books. Black Panther #4 - The Price and Black Panther #5 - Lord of the Damned.

I consider them current but not necessarily standard. We will have to just agree to disagree there.

I was just responding to your alluding to me calling Spideys win over firelord not valid (i never claimed it was invalid). Now, Your opinion that BP's win over Mephisto not factoring is misguided in my opinion: It is still a prep feat regardless of the time it took. It shows what he is capable of prep-wise and since we don't have exact, 30 minute, prep feats for either we have to look at their entire prep-feat body of work to show who has the superior (no pun intended) prep-feat track record.

Exactly: 30 minutes is not much time and BP has more ready to go tech at his disposal so he can spend time modifying existing tech ftw. Black Panther is a master of battlefield improvisation as well and with morals on he has the clear advantage over spiderman, and morals off he has the advantage of a wider variety of tech and more experience with morals off battles than Spidey.

It doesn't matter why BP has more prep feats than Spidey. It only matters that he doeshave more. Black Panther has quality and quantity of feat. This trumps just having quality.And , as I said earlier, Black panther has the "x-factor" of improvisation as well so Spiderman has no advantage there either.

Being ruthless when your opponent is not is a distinct advantage when you are also a supremely skilled fighter with a genius-level intellect, superhuman abilities, incredible tech and vast experience. Carnage is just a psychopathic,homicidal, headcase with symbiote powers. BP trying to kill him is vastly different: it's like a rabid rottweiler on steroids trying to kill you (carnage) as opposed to an armed to the teeth Navy Seal (BP). The Navy Seal is much more dangerous.And, no, it's like more saying Batman loses to a Batman clone who is willing to kill and maim while maintaining his intellect and composure.

The first round standard morals apply so Spidey is not trying to kill Black Panther. And the second round Spiderman is not used to killing and has very little experience with fights to the death (where he is doing the killing I mean) which gives BP an edge in deadly combat experience. T'challa's prep is going to be much more vicious and devastating in round one and noticeably more vicious in round two as well because he will know Spidey is now out for blood.

Of course it isn't (or shouldn't) be about who likes who more. I was simply making an assertion whilst slightly implying that to some, arguments are based on favoritism rather than feats and logic and their dislike of another character for whatever reason. Black Panther, for example, gets hated on a lot.unfortunately.