#1 Edited by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Team @superboy Team Stealth

  • Daken
  • Batman
  • Nightwing

Team @dredeuced Team Tech

  • Madison Jeffries
  • Mr Terrific (7 T-Spheres)
  • TUNED Alita

Rules:

  • In character
  • Win by Death, KO, BFR, or Incapacitation
  • Team Chemistry does come into play
  • No Prep
  • All DC Characters are Pre-52, but Post-52 Feats can be used in most cases
  • All Marvel Characters are Current unless otherwise specified
  • Standard Gear unless otherwise specified
  • Location is unpopulated
  • Contestants start on the bridge at opposite ends.
#2 Edited by Dredeuced (5856 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, I guess I'll open up the debate. I was hoping for a little prep, but I'll manage without.

The main advantage my team has is that Alita is vastly physically superior to your whole team. While Nightwing and Batman are, at best, peak human, Alita can throw several ton concrete pillars one handed:

Though I realize strength doesn't always mean striking strength, her striking strength is also massive, able to shatter large boulders, tear apart large cyborgs(with an inferior body) and kick in reinforced steel doors:

She is also a master of a Martian Martial Art known as Panzer Kunst. While I know your entire team are quite proficient in martial arts (and batman being one of the best on Earth), it's hard to compare with a cyborg related martial art meant to inflict instant fatal damage on contact with an opponent with its primary move, the Hertza Haeon:

She doesn't even have to hit your head to use the Hertza Haeon -- any contact with any part of your body, armored or not, lets her send the vibration to your brain and cause head explosion. She has several other Panzer Kunst techniques, but this is the most effective and most commonly used one and it is my best plan for getting through Daken's regen, as instant head explosions tend to but a damper on healing factors.

And these are just her physical capabilities. She also possess Chi, which is a nearly supernatural sense of your opponents abilities and weaknesses. It allows near precognitive ability through Kizashi and is only countered by superior Chi:

While I wouldn't say her reaction time is significantly better than Batman's (I know he's dodged and deflected bullets before) it is atleast on par, as she has dodged point blank bullets (while being held still) and avoided several water cutter jets (the industrial kind meant for slicing through steel) that move upwards of mach 3:

Given her Cyborg body, she is also quite a bit more durable than anyone on the field (though she does not have Daken's regen). Her physical superiority combined with her Chi and Panzer Kunst should make her far more than a match for anyone on your team in hand to hand combat. She also has high powered weaponry and gadgets, but I'll get to those depending on how you plan to use your characters.

Next up is Mr Terrific. While I wouldn't put him at being as good as Nightwing or Batman (not sure about Daken) at martial arts, he's clearly quite skilled:

But the main advantage he brings to my team is his T-Spheres, while limited to only seven, he will open the fight by giving both Madison and Alita a T-Mask, as he can turn his tspheres into masks. This will give my team a comlink and it will pass the benefits of the t-mask off to my other two members, such as multiple fields of vision and invisibility to technology:

His T-spheres and his own reflexes combine to give him incredible mobility, flight and agility, allowing him to dodge laser turret fire and rifle fire from dozens of trained soldiers:

I know your team has pretty great dodging feats as well, but it's hard to top stuff like this, combined with Mr. Terrific's ability to fly using 3 spheres.

His spheres are also quite dangerous, offensively, capable of tank shattering force blasts (not quite cyclops level, but quite strong) and blistering, plasma creating speeds:

While I know your team is good at dodging, they'd be hard pressed to dodge force blasts or a sphere moving at 14 miles per second (which is many times faster than a bullet).

Finally, there's Madison. Madison's power is the ability to psionically manipulate metal, glass and plastic. He's able to do it quickly and on a large scale, capable of quickly disassembling sentinels and turning their components into his own weapons:

This would mean the second Batman or Nightwing pull out a gadget, he could just disassemble it in their hands, or even just disassemble their utility belts (or wherever Nightwing keeps his gear in that skintight suit) to start the fight. This would leave your team forced into a melee fight where Alita's superior ability and Terrific and Jeffrie's ranged capabilities has them completely outmatched.

Heck, nothing's to stop Jeffries from just turning the Golden Gate Bridge into a giant cage around your team, trapping them, and letting some of alita's drones or Terrific's spheres clean up once they're robbed of their mobility.

On the issue of teamwork, I don't think it'll be a problem. Both Terrific and Jeffries are solid good guys with long histories of working on superhero teams, in the JSA and Alpha Flight, respectively. Alita's a bit of a lone wolf in her series, but she's quick to make friends and spends the entire Tuned series working with Tiphares and Lou. So long as her partners are respectful (and they have no reason not to be), her hot-headedness shouldn't be an issue.

Alright, you're up next @superboy91

#3 Edited by Superboy91 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced

Oh sh*t. I forgot I was next. I need prep. I'll respond back in an hour or two, because this is my first tournament and I don't want to begin as a wreck.

#4 Edited by Dredeuced (5856 posts) - - Show Bio

@superboy91: Not rushing you, dude. Take your time, so long as I know you're here to respond eventually I can be patient. :)

#5 Edited by Superboy91 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@@dredeuced: I will post my move tomorrow - that's a promise.

#6 Posted by Dredeuced (5856 posts) - - Show Bio
#7 Posted by Superboy91 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: OK. My turn.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First up is Daken.

When you were making your move, you were clearly just thinking about Batman and Nightwing - you only briefly mentioned Daken, and when you did you just mentioned his regenerating ability. But he has so much more.

Daken is immune to diseases, poisons, and drugs. And he has superhuman everything - superhuman endurance, strength, reflexes, agility, durability, stamina, even superhuman acute senses. And he is strongly immune to telepathy. And let's not forget the claws he inherits from his father.

But what I really want to talk about is his pheromone control.

Daken's pheromone control over the Dark Ms. Marvel.

Daken the ability to manipulate his pheromones for the purpose of suppressing his own scent to such a degree that even Wolverine's senses are unable to detect him. He can also use his pheromones to manipulate the emotional state and sensory perceptions of other beings. He can instill intense emotions into your team - including intense fear. He can also hinder depth perception and visual acuity, causing his opponent to fight sluggishly. He once did that to Spider-Man.

Alita, Mr. Terrific, and Madison all have great abilities - but Daken can instill intense fear into them. A team with intense fear is not a good one. After doing that, he can hinder your team's depth perception and visual acuity. A team with poor depth perception, poor visual acuity, and intense fear is not a good one.

Alita can't lift concrete pills with poor vision, and all of Mr. Terrific's fields of vision will be hindered. Once Daken has done this, he can use his claws and strength without good retaliation, and the rest of my team can use their own skills to achieve victory once and for all. And it really must hurt when he unleashes his claws or strength against them.

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Next up, Nightwing.

Nightwing does not have any superpowers - and popularity won't help him. It's a common belief that the more popular character is the superior combat - that is not true; Nightwing may be more popular than your entire team, but that doesn't mean he can effortlessly kick your team's asses.

What Nightwing does have, however, is master acrobatic skills. He is widely regarded as the best human acrobat in the DC Universe - and with good reason.

Nightwing also knows martial arts, like judo, taiquan, and hapkido. And let's combine this with his stealth - while not on Daken's level, Nightwing is a master of stealth. He can even surprise the Dark Knight himself!

As such, Nightwing can hide himself from your team - and then he will strike. He will go all judo/taiquan/whatever on them, and the opponent won't be able to fight back at first because they are not prepared.

He has another skill, one he got from Batman - intimidation. While intimidation is primarily a skill for supervillains, some heroes use it - including Batman. And Batman has taught this skill to his first sidekick, who is now...Nightwing! As such, Nightwing can intimidate your opponents. Don't know about Alita, but he can intimidate Mr. Terrific and Madison.

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And finally, Batman.

Like with Nightwing, Batman has no superpowers, and popularity won't help him. They say he can beat anyone with enough prep - I don't believe that, and no prep is allowed in this tourney anyway.

But, as with his former sidekick, he knows martial arts and is a master of stealth of intimidation, so he does stand a chance against your team.

Batman also has an indomitable will. One of Batman's key skills is his imdomitable will and strength - this makes him an extremely formidable opponent. Batman also has interrogation skills - he will use law enforcement methods as well as torture to combat his opponents.

It's from the movie, but Pre-52 Batman has done stuff like this before.

Batman also has peak human strength - he can bench press 1000 pounds. Thus, he can stand a change against Mr. Terrific and the rest of your team.

And he is a master of stealth, as mentioned before - he can easily sneak up on opponents and strike when they are not prepared - he and Nightwing have good chemistry, so they can work together and do this stealth thing together as a duo - like when it was when Dick Grayson was the original Batman. Having one of them do this is bad enough for your team member that's on the recieving end, but them doing it together makes it worse.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alright. Daken, Nightwing, and Batman are done for now, for I have made my move.

#8 Edited by Dredeuced (5856 posts) - - Show Bio

@superboy91

Daken the ability to manipulate his pheromones for the purpose of suppressing his own scent to such a degree that even Wolverine's senses are unable to detect him. He can also use his pheromones to manipulate the emotional state and sensory perceptions of other beings. He can instill intense emotions into your team - including intense fear. He can also hinder depth perception and visual acuity, causing his opponent to fight sluggishly. He once did that to Spider-Man.

Alita, Mr. Terrific, and Madison all have great abilities - but Daken can instill intense fear into them. A team with intense fear is not a good one. After doing that, he can hinder your team's depth perception and visual acuity. A team with poor depth perception, poor visual acuity, and intense fear is not a good one.

Alita can't lift concrete pills with poor vision, and all of Mr. Terrific's fields of vision will be hindered. Once Daken has done this, he can use his claws and strength without good retaliation, and the rest of my team can use their own skills to achieve victory once and for all. And it really must hurt when he unleashes his claws or strength against them.

T-masks protect from chemical attacks, that's one of their basic functions. There's a reason why I gave the other two members of the team T-Masks besides just communication. My team should, by any account, be completely unaffacted by Daken's control. As a part-time X-man, I'm pretty sure Jeffries would be aware and could fill my team in on the basic Daken info.

Nightwing also knows martial arts, like judo, taiquan, and hapkido. And let's combine this with his stealth - while not on Daken's level, Nightwing is a master of stealth. He can even surprise the Dark Knight himself!

As such, Nightwing can hide himself from your team - and then he will strike. He will go all judo/taiquan/whatever on them, and the opponent won't be able to fight back at first because they are not prepared.

He has another skill, one he got from Batman - intimidation. While intimidation is primarily a skill for supervillains, some heroes use it - including Batman. And Batman has taught this skill to his first sidekick, who is now...Nightwing! As such, Nightwing can intimidate your opponents. Don't know about Alita, but he can intimidate Mr. Terrific and Madison.

Couple of things, where do you plan on hiding? It's a flat, narrow bridge. At best there's some cars to hide around, which give you absolutely no cover against Alita's Gabriel:

And, even moreso, I doubt you can get past the T-mask's scanning capabilities:

Stealth is a poor tool against my team, as I've shown the T-mask also has several kinds of EM based vision like X-ray and such. Combine that with the T-sphere's flying around keeping tabs on you, and Alita's missile bees doing the same. Oh, I suppose I never showed you the missile bees:

Missile Bees are pseudo autonomous drones. They fly around and blow up anything Alita sees fit to blow up, and she comes with dozens of them. On such a narrow platform, I have a hard time believing your team can do any hiding from bees + t-spheres + gabriel + t-mask sensors. The Bees also explode with enough force to decapitate cyborgs, which have much greater than normal human durability.

You're not "intimidating" Mr. Terrific. Terrific is a long time acquaintance of Batman and Nightwing, I hardly think he's going to start shivering in his boots over anything they do. Maybe if he was completely disarmed and didn't have an amazing team backing him up, but intimidation is hardly a valid tactic in a firefight.

Good luck intimidating Alita. She's one of the most fearless characters around. Giant, body stealing cyborg rapists don't scare her, I don't see Batman or Nightwing giving her the shivers.

Jeffries maybe, but even then you'll never get close enough to him TO threaten him, so it's kind of moot.

Like with Nightwing, Batman has no superpowers, and popularity won't help him. They say he can beat anyone with enough prep - I don't believe that, and no prep is allowed in this tourney anyway.

But, as with his former sidekick, he knows martial arts and is a master of stealth of intimidation, so he does stand a chance against your team.

Batman also has an indomitable will. One of Batman's key skills is his imdomitable will and strength - this makes him an extremely formidable opponent. Batman also has interrogation skills - he will use law enforcement methods as well as torture to combat his opponents.

I believe, in a fist fight, Batman would get utterly trounced by Alita. She's significantly superhuman in every stat and no amount of Batman's martial arts can counter her Chi and Kizashi -- not to mention that, should he even get grazed by a blow from her, his head would explode form a vibration blast.

Batman also has peak human strength - he can bench press 1000 pounds. Thus, he can stand a change against Mr. Terrific and the rest of your team.

No one on my team weighs 1000 pounds, nor would lifting them significantly help him. As strong as Batman is, Terrific himself is close to peak human and Alita is massively superhuman in every way. As shown, she can lift several tons with one arm and throw it several meters away, after having an entire building fall on top of her. She's faster and a better martial artist due to Chi. As good as Batman is, it's useless against someone so physically superior with the magical power to know his weaknesses and every move he makes before he makes them. Deathstroke's whooping on Batman can attest to how it goes when you put him up against master martial artists with superior stats, themselves.

And he is a master of stealth, as mentioned before - he can easily sneak up on opponents and strike when they are not prepared - he and Nightwing have good chemistry, so they can work together and do this stealth thing together as a duo - like when it was when Dick Grayson was the original Batman. Having one of them do this is bad enough for your team member that's on the recieving end, but them doing it together makes it worse.

I'm still wondering A: Where you're going to hide and B: How you, even modestly, plan on sneaking away from a satellite and dozens of flying drones and also all of Mr. Terrific's sensors. Not to mention that Jeffries can psionically sense the ceramics and metals in Batman and Nightwing's attire, making hiding from him an equally unlikely prospect.

#9 Posted by Superboy91 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: I was in a rush, ok? I didn't have time to look over it because my mom and I are going somewhere, and she didn't tell me in advance because NOBODY EVER TELLS ME ANYTHING IN ADVANCE!!! Which really p*sses me off. And I was forced to be outside with my sister, which really made things all the more worse. We actually had to go right when I began Batman's entry.

But Daken could still use his pheromone control to weaken your team so that my team could make their moves and achieve victory.

#11 Edited by Superboy91 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@superboy91

Daken the ability to manipulate his pheromones for the purpose of suppressing his own scent to such a degree that even Wolverine's senses are unable to detect him. He can also use his pheromones to manipulate the emotional state and sensory perceptions of other beings. He can instill intense emotions into your team - including intense fear. He can also hinder depth perception and visual acuity, causing his opponent to fight sluggishly. He once did that to Spider-Man.

Alita, Mr. Terrific, and Madison all have great abilities - but Daken can instill intense fear into them. A team with intense fear is not a good one. After doing that, he can hinder your team's depth perception and visual acuity. A team with poor depth perception, poor visual acuity, and intense fear is not a good one.

Alita can't lift concrete pills with poor vision, and all of Mr. Terrific's fields of vision will be hindered. Once Daken has done this, he can use his claws and strength without good retaliation, and the rest of my team can use their own skills to achieve victory once and for all. And it really must hurt when he unleashes his claws or strength against them.

T-masks protect from chemical attacks, that's one of their basic functions. There's a reason why I gave the other two members of the team T-Masks besides just communication. My team should, by any account, be completely unaffacted by Daken's control. As a part-time X-man, I'm pretty sure Jeffries would be aware and could fill my team in on the basic Daken info.

Nightwing also knows martial arts, like judo, taiquan, and hapkido. And let's combine this with his stealth - while not on Daken's level, Nightwing is a master of stealth. He can even surprise the Dark Knight himself!

As such, Nightwing can hide himself from your team - and then he will strike. He will go all judo/taiquan/whatever on them, and the opponent won't be able to fight back at first because they are not prepared.

He has another skill, one he got from Batman - intimidation. While intimidation is primarily a skill for supervillains, some heroes use it - including Batman. And Batman has taught this skill to his first sidekick, who is now...Nightwing! As such, Nightwing can intimidate your opponents. Don't know about Alita, but he can intimidate Mr. Terrific and Madison.

Couple of things, where do you plan on hiding? It's a flat, narrow bridge. At best there's some cars to hide around, which give you absolutely no cover against Alita's Gabriel:

And, even moreso, I doubt you can get past the T-mask's scanning capabilities:

Stealth is a poor tool against my team, as I've shown the T-mask also has several kinds of EM based vision like X-ray and such. Combine that with the T-sphere's flying around keeping tabs on you, and Alita's missile bees doing the same. Oh, I suppose I never showed you the missile bees:

Missile Bees are pseudo autonomous drones. They fly around and blow up anything Alita sees fit to blow up, and she comes with dozens of them. On such a narrow platform, I have a hard time believing your team can do any hiding from bees + t-spheres + gabriel + t-mask sensors. The Bees also explode with enough force to decapitate cyborgs, which have much greater than normal human durability.

You're not "intimidating" Mr. Terrific. Terrific is a long time acquaintance of Batman and Nightwing, I hardly think he's going to start shivering in his boots over anything they do. Maybe if he was completely disarmed and didn't have an amazing team backing him up, but intimidation is hardly a valid tactic in a firefight.

Good luck intimidating Alita. She's one of the most fearless characters around. Giant, body stealing cyborg rapists don't scare her, I don't see Batman or Nightwing giving her the shivers.

Jeffries maybe, but even then you'll never get close enough to him TO threaten him, so it's kind of moot.

Like with Nightwing, Batman has no superpowers, and popularity won't help him. They say he can beat anyone with enough prep - I don't believe that, and no prep is allowed in this tourney anyway.

But, as with his former sidekick, he knows martial arts and is a master of stealth of intimidation, so he does stand a chance against your team.

Batman also has an indomitable will. One of Batman's key skills is his imdomitable will and strength - this makes him an extremely formidable opponent. Batman also has interrogation skills - he will use law enforcement methods as well as torture to combat his opponents.

I believe, in a fist fight, Batman would get utterly trounced by Alita. She's significantly superhuman in every stat and no amount of Batman's martial arts can counter her Chi and Kizashi -- not to mention that, should he even get grazed by a blow from her, his head would explode form a vibration blast.

Batman also has peak human strength - he can bench press 1000 pounds. Thus, he can stand a change against Mr. Terrific and the rest of your team.

No one on my team weighs 1000 pounds, nor would lifting them significantly help him. As strong as Batman is, Terrific himself is close to peak human and Alita is massively superhuman in every way. As shown, she can lift several tons with one arm and throw it several meters away, after having an entire building fall on top of her. She's faster and a better martial artist due to Chi. As good as Batman is, it's useless against someone so physically superior with the magical power to know his weaknesses and every move he makes before he makes them. Deathstroke's whooping on Batman can attest to how it goes when you put him up against master martial artists with superior stats, themselves.

And he is a master of stealth, as mentioned before - he can easily sneak up on opponents and strike when they are not prepared - he and Nightwing have good chemistry, so they can work together and do this stealth thing together as a duo - like when it was when Dick Grayson was the original Batman. Having one of them do this is bad enough for your team member that's on the recieving end, but them doing it together makes it worse.

I'm still wondering A: Where you're going to hide and B: How you, even modestly, plan on sneaking away from a satellite and dozens of flying drones and also all of Mr. Terrific's sensors. Not to mention that Jeffries can psionically sense the ceramics and metals in Batman and Nightwing's attire, making hiding from him an equally unlikely prospect.

A) Under the bridge - they have gadgets that would prevent them from falling

B) I'll answer that later.

And none of your team member weight 1000 pounds, yes, but I was just saying how strong Batman was.

And Jefferies could give info, yes, but I doubt they really could do anything to prevent Daken from manipulating their emotions. They could give him a fight as they would know of his superhuman abilities, but IDK if they could stop Daken's pheromone control.

#12 Posted by Dredeuced (5856 posts) - - Show Bio

Again, Daken's pheromones should not work through the T-Mask -- it is an airborne chemical thing that requires you to breathe it in, and T-Masks have dealt with airborne poisons before. Also, your gadgets will be disabled by Jeffries. Going under the bridge would not hide you from either T-Spheres or Missile Bees and would just leave you as sitting ducks to be shot at by T-spheres, blown up by Missile Bees or caged//disabled by Jeffries.

@dredeuced: I was in a rush, ok? I didn't have time to look over it because my mom and I are going somewhere, and she didn't tell me in advance because NOBODY EVER TELLS ME ANYTHING IN ADVANCE!!! Which really p*sses me off. And I was forced to be outside with my sister, which really made things all the more worse. We actually had to go right when I began Batman's entry.

But Daken could still use his pheromone control to weaken your team so that my team could make their moves and achieve victory.

I have no idea what any of this is about. Are you okay, dude?

#13 Posted by Superboy91 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced

  1. ...Batman is prepared for Mr. Terrific, and he wou - wait, wait, wait Esquire said no prep time. Sh*t. Well, if this counts, Batman is probably prepared for Mr. Terrific in general, not just the fight, so he might have something up his sleeve.
  2. Yes. Yes I am.
#14 Edited by Dredeuced (5856 posts) - - Show Bio

@superboy91 said:

@dredeuced

  1. ...Batman is prepared for Mr. Terrific, and he wou - wait, wait, wait Esquire said no prep time. Sh*t. Well, if this counts, Batman is probably prepared for Mr. Terrific in general, not just the fight, so he might have something up his sleeve.
  2. Yes. Yes I am.

The main problem is, even IF you assume that Batman walks around with a gadget that can disable T-Spheres (he's never shown anything of the sort), Madison Jeffries can disable any gadget of the sort and reconstruct the spheres on the fly given his tech abilities. Unless you think Batman can punch a t-sphere going 14 miles per second out of the air without vaporizing himself, I don't see how Batman has a counter for it.

I think I've made my argument well enough for why my team counters yours, from Daken's pheromones (T-Masks) to Nightwing and Batman's gadgets(Jeffries), to any attempts at stealth (T-Sphere and Missile Bee scouting + Jeffries psionic sensing of their costumes which have metals and ceramics built in).

#15 Posted by Superboy91 (62 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced

I...I have nothing left to say. I have no counter arguments left - I was going to post one, but...I am too busy lately, as my aunt is getting married soon. Combined with the fact that you have taken my arguments and crushed them...I shall respectfully bow out. I just can't think of a reply to your argument.