• 168 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
#1 Edited by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman:

Wonder Woman & Black Adam:

&

Rules:

  • Random encounter
  • Clarks Morals are off and he's blood lusted
  • Diana & Adams morals are on
  • Standard equipment for all
  • Battle field removal is not allowed
  • All characters have access To Pre/New52 feats
  • Win by death, knockout, or incapacitation

Location:

Central City

#3 Posted by keithcolby1995 (481 posts) - - Show Bio

Morals off Superman could win, but I'll give it to team two for the majority.

#4 Posted by dorukesin (6869 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark throws the earth to them

#5 Edited by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions: The mistake of this is this stipulation:

All characters have access To Pre/New52 feats

They completely stomp him if they have access to Pre-New 52 feats. Pre-New 52 versions, Black Adam already matched him and Wonder Woman has often given him a run for his money, together with access to Pre-New 52 feats, they stomp Superman to Kingdom Come.

It's fairer if it's strictly New-52.

#6 Edited by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen:

Incorrect. Even together the duo would struggle to tag Clark who has literally one-shot Diana while blood lusted before. And you do realize with New52 feats Superman has feats such as lifting the weight of the Earth for five days and I know your already knowledgeable about his current feat. Basically I'm saying strength wise Superman is superior to Black Adam but combined that with his Pre52 reaction speed and it's a pretty deadly combo. And why would I restrict it to New52 feats? Neither has anything of Superman Pre or New52. They both get annihilated.

#7 Posted by ZhuRong (4471 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Edited by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions: No, not really - with Pre-New 52 feats, the duo have already fought Superman. Adam fought him in AC 831 and more or less matched him {though it could be argued Teth was stronger than Superman in this instance}, Wonder Woman's fought toe-to-toe with him, physically she is inferior but with her speed, equipment and skill, she gives him trouble. They completely stomp with access to Pre-New 52 feats. Not to mention, there may be some contradictions by allowing both feats.

In regards to the New-52, Wonder Woman has actually obtained good new feats/powers IIRC, and Teth can matter manipulate.

#9 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@zhurong: Where did I say they'd lose? Please don't put words in my mouth. @frozen if we go by consistent showings Clark is shown to be stronger, more durable, and faster than the duo. I don't care about the one time they matched when Black Adam fights and loses to inferior opponents like Shazam. If Superman actually uses his speed he could blitz the team with some difficulty. And like I said, Superman has one-shot Diana as well as frozen her with freeze breath and both of those are very possible in this situation. And no. Neither of the duo have any feats to put them on Superman's level in the New52. I don't care that they matched for the sake of the story. I don't care about Wonder Woman's gear set unless you factor it into this debate somehow. Superman alone would beat both handily but together there going to be a hand full. Not trying to say who wins but this is in no way a stomp and could go either way.

#10 Edited by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions:

if we go by consistent showings Clark is shown to be stronger, more durable, and faster than the duo. I don't care about the one time they matched when Black Adam fights and loses to inferior opponents like Shazam. If Superman actually uses his speed he could blitz the team with some difficulty. And like I said, Superman has one-shot Diana as well as frozen her with freeze breath and both of those are very possible in this situation. And no. Neither of the duo have any feats to put them on Superman's level in the New52. I don't care that they matched for the sake of the story. I don't care about Wonder Woman's gear set unless you factor it into this debate somehow. Superman alone would beat both handily but together there going to be a hand full. Not trying to say who wins but this is in no way a stomp and could go either way.

Most of this does not even match up with what occurs in the comic itself. Superman {Pre-Flashpoint} is powerful - he's not powerful enough to fight both Wonder Woman and Black Adam simultaneously and succeed, the idea is far-fetched and Superman would need an amp to accomplish such a feat. When has Black Adam ever lost to Captain Marvel either? There's a big difference between Captain Marvel and Shazam. Shazam is the full Wizard's power, and Teth in Pre-Flashpoint canon once beat Lord Marvel {Billy with The Wizard's power} and it was a PIS affair because The Wizard's power is Skyfather-esque, Adam is clearly not. More often than not, Teth has dominated Captain Marvel, and by Superman's own admission in Action Comics #831, Teth hit harder than Captain Marvel {and it's not solely due to morals, as Clark has fought a no-morals Captain Marvel in Superman #102}. I'm aware that Superman holds the physical advantage over Wonder Woman, which has been demonstrated on a consistent level, however it's unfair to say she cannot hold her own against him, considering her combined skill, reflexes and equipment have troubled him, especially considering they are of a magical nature {which visibly hurts him more}. Moreover, Adam's feats are not solely against Billy, he has fought the JSA a number of times {and won, including victories over Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and one-shotting Power Girl}, tore through a machine Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and Power Girl could not scratch, etc.

And I'm aware New-52 Superman has better feats than the New-52 duo, however that's still a fairer matchup than Pre-Flashpoint versions. Adam matching him is not due to 'plot' either - that's ridiculous.

#11 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen:

Yes. I blame it on plot and inconsistencies in comics. Superman is often displayed as being much, much faster than the duo. He could realistically blitz them both but he doesn't utilize that speed in comics and he holds back most of the time. That's why when they fight it's plot even though there consistently shown to be much weaker.

Tell me? How does Black Adam or Wonder Woman fair against Earth shaking punches? Especially in the New52. All I'm trying to say is this isn't a stomp. Simple as that. I'm fine with the duo winning however.

#12 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark one shots Diana then takes care of Teth

#13 Posted by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions:

Yes. I blame it on plot and inconsistencies in comics. Superman is often displayed as being much, much faster than the duo. He could realistically blitz them both but he doesn't utilize that speed in comics and he holds back most of the time. That's why when they fight it's plot even though there consistently shown to be much weaker.

Superman clearly is not much faster than Wonder Woman, her reactions are most likely faster in combat. Whereas Teth may be relatively slow, he did actually anticipate and one-shot Jay Garrick who was blitzing him {and Jay is equal to Superman in speed}. And Adam clearly has not been shown to be consistentley inferior, in fact he, he has more high-end feats than low-end.

Tell me? How does Black Adam or Wonder Woman fair against Earth shaking punches? Especially in the New52. All I'm trying to say is this isn't a stomp. Simple as that. I'm fine with the duo winning however.

Unless Superman in the New-52 hasn't destroyed a planet, I do not find the feat to be too impressive - Adam can compensate for Superman's raw striking power by amplifying his own punches with magic {something which has a better chance of bypassing Superman's invulnerability than blunt force}. Wonder Woman can use her lasso as Adam distracts him, etc.

With Pre-New 52 feats I completely see this is a stomp in the team's favour, essentially one member of the team has already matched him and has feats on his level, whereas the other can give him grief due to her speed, reactions and most of all, equipment.

#14 Posted by keithcolby1995 (481 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions: @zhurong: Actually, you said they would both get annihilated. You said it in your first reply. He or She didn't put words in your mouth. You clearly said they would get annihilated. Which is probably false.

#15 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen:

There's the possibility that Wonder Woman just gets one-shot and going by feats Jay and Superman are not equals in speed. And why does it matter that Superman hasn't destroyed a planet with a punch? I asked if you could show me something like the duo tanking such punches. I get it man. You think this is a stomp bit I don't. Will have to agree to disagree.

#16 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio
#17 Posted by keithcolby1995 (481 posts) - - Show Bio
#18 Edited by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio
@reaverlation said:

Clark one shots Diana then takes care of Teth

.....No

Clark is not taking them both on.

#19 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: .....yes

Clark is taking them both on

#20 Posted by sacredweapons (1292 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen:

Incorrect. Even together the duo would struggle to tag Clark who has literally one-shot Diana while blood lusted before. And you do realize with New52 feats Superman has feats such as lifting the weight of the Earth for five days and I know your already knowledgeable about his current feat. Basically I'm saying strength wise Superman is superior to Black Adam but combined that with his Pre52 reaction speed and it's a pretty deadly combo. And why would I restrict it to New52 feats? Neither has anything of Superman Pre or New52. They both get annihilated.

That is when you said they would win.

#21 Posted by dondave (38797 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark

Online
#22 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_man_with_questions:

There's the possibility that Wonder Woman just gets one-shot

Wonder Woman is certainly inferior physically but one-shotted? I doubt it, especially considering she has a team member who can help her.

and going by feats Jay and Superman are not equals in speed.

You're right. Going by feats, Jay is faster.

#24 Posted by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio
#25 Edited by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio
@reaverlation said:

@frozen: .....yes

Clark is taking them both on

No, not really. Pre-New 52 Teth already matched him and he's always morals off, Wonder Woman with the help of a team member can prevent a one-shot, given she can disperse Zeus's lightning.

@dondave said:

Clark

With Pre-New 52 feats, I doubt it. I also thought you said WW/BA are at his level?

#26 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Superman was not fighting to the best of his abilities against Teth and if he is, Adam ain't beating Clark.Diana already admitted to not being able to beat Clark and a Clark not holding back anything one shotted her.Especially since Clark knows who these characters are and would know how to dispatch of them,He floors Diana with one hit and then pounds Teth's face into paste right after

#27 Edited by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation:

Superman was not fighting to the best of his abilities against Teth and if he is, Adam ain't beating Clark.

And Teth was? Teth wasn't even angry, he was mild - his best feats come from when he's bloodlust {e.g. beating the JSA which is more high-end than one-shotting Wonder Woman}. In fact, he directly matched him in AC 831, even if you choose to ignore this fight, the physical gap in regards to brawling was inconsequential. Superman could definitely beat Adam if he fought smart, but that might not be the case for a bloodlust Superman.

Diana already admitted to not being able to beat Clark and a Clark not holding back anything one shotted her.Especially since Clark knows who these characters are and would know how to dispatch of them,He floors Diana with one hit and then pounds Teth's face into paste right after

No, this perpsective only takes into account what the team won't do and what Superman can do - Wonder Woman is also fully aware of Superman's capabilities. She also has a team member aiding her, who can rival Superman, and Diana is also clear-minded with morals on, she can utilize her knowledge more effectively than what a bloodlust Superman can do {there's a difference between bloodlust and morals off} - Teth's already traded blows with Superman, he could serve as a distraction while Wonder Woman uses her lasso. Both could disperse magical lightning towards him, she could dodge his blows while Teth attacks, etc. These are two beings who rival Superman - putting them together makes it one-sided in their favour.

#28 Posted by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

Team. Not too much trouble.

#29 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: And Clark's feats are better than Teth's anyways.Teth matched a Clark not going to his fullest.Superman>Black Adam

Diana won't last, especially since Clark already one shotted her and Diana admitted to not beating Clark.Neither Diana or Teth hardly use their magic attacks nor have they used it against Clark from what I remember.Superman wins this

#30 Posted by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation:

And Clark's feats are better than Teth's anyways.Teth matched a Clark not going to his fullest.Superman>Black Adam

?

I also said Teth did not go out all either; most of Teth's high-end feats are a result of Teth being bloodlust, a mild Teth is often less powerful, if anything Superman was the aggressor in their fight. Either way, a bloodlust Superman may be less inclined to fight smart/utilize versatility, that'd be more in line with a morals-off Superman.

Diana won't last, especially since Clark already one shotted her and Diana admitted to not beating Clark

In some regards, he did take her by surprise when he blitzed her to The Sun - still, I have already said Superman's superior physically, but a morals-on Wonder Woman, who actually has the aid of a team member and knowledge on Superman's capabilities is less likely to get one-shotted and keep her distance, by fighting tactically. Diana's admissions stem from her not being at Superman's physical level, and again, she needn't fight Clark on her own in this battle if she has help.

Neither Diana or Teth hardly use their magic attacks nor have they used it against Clark from what I remember.

Teth has used his lightning a number of times and he does not need to speakt the magic word, Diana's also used her lightning enough for it to count as an advantage.

Superman wins this

No.

#31 Posted by Night4345 (5545 posts) - - Show Bio

Clark.

#32 Edited by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: I know you did but Teth isn't beating Clark regardless. Superman was still pulling his shots against Teth and Teth would last as long against Superman as Diana would. And Superman is Morals Off too.

Not really since Diana was able to block Clark's heat vision before Clark overpowered her and Diana barely got out.What if Clark punched Diana instead? The same thing would happen again:Get 1 shotted. Teth would stand less of a chance due to not being as fast as Clark.Or Diana.

Not against Superman from what I remember.

Yup

#33 Posted by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation:

I know you did but Teth isn't beating Clark regardless. Superman was still pulling his shots against Teth and Teth would last as long against Superman as Diana would. And Superman is Morals Off too.

..,He doesn't need to beat Superman in a 1 v 1 fight, they operate relatively close to each other in physicals bar speed. And again, Teth wasn't going all out either {which is the version we usually see}. The stipulation here is that he's ''and bloodlusted'' which will already require morals to be off, bloodlust takes the state one step further.

Teth would also last much longer than Diana would on a physical level - he actually competes with him physically and can tank his shots, while return with his own.

Not really since Diana was able to block Clark's heat vision before Clark overpowered her and Diana barely got out.What if Clark punched Diana instead? The same thing would happen again:Get 1 shotted.

How? She was IIRC interrogating Maxwell Lord, and in this fight, the stipulation is that she's clear-headed and morals-on, Wonder Woman having 'knowledge' on Superman's capabilities is more relevant for her, than it is for him {due to the difference in mental state, clear headed vs bloodlust

Teth would stand less of a chance due to not being as fast as Clark.Or Diana.

Not really. By the same standard, Teth also one-shotted Jay Garrick who was attempting to blitz him {and Jay's just as fast as Superman}.

Not against Superman from what I remember.

Teth did not in his fight {as Superman did not use speed}, though Wonder Woman only obtained the upgrade after her fights with Superman.

Yup

Against two powerhouses at his level? Nope.

#34 Posted by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

Whats with the one shotting thing? I seem to remember bloodlusted superman gushing blood from his throat the last time they fought and diana clearly wasnt trying to kill her friend. Clark was.

#36 Edited by The_Man_With_Questions (791 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Edited by Easternwind (3891 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Edited by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_man_with_questions: yes thats the one im talking about too. It ends with suoerman gushing blood from his neck and maxwell lord dead. Also, hiw is that a one shot since theyd been fighting if i remember correctly and she wasnt kod. In MMA talk, blacking iut for a mere instant would be considered getting rocked. Joe rogan might say oh he hurt him. A ko, is down for the count. I guess it means sonething different to other people.

#39 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

@frozen: Not with New 52 feats as well. With New 52 feats, Superman is stronger than either Diana or Teth by a considerable margin and they're not overpowering Superman physically. And Superman>Black Adam bloodlusted or not

Not really. Teth would last just as long as Diana would or slightly better at most

She blocked Clark's heat vision before being blitzed into the sun.And Diana couldn't take down Superman Morals on or off/bloodlusted.

Jay successfully blitzed Teth.The difference here is that not only is Clark at least as fast as Jay, but Clark strikes harder than Jay and is way more durable as well.

2 characters with Morals on and would beat for a majority, yup Clark wins

#40 Edited by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio
#42 Posted by Easternwind (3891 posts) - - Show Bio

@easternwind: The Man With Questions posted the scan

And you consider that a one shot why?

He punched her once, from space but the fight still continued no?

#43 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

@easternwind: She blacked out.She only woke up due to her re-entry of Earth

#44 Edited by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation said:

@easternwind: The Man With Questions posted the scan

And you consider that a one shot why?

He punched her once, from space but the fight still continued no?

Bingo. Thats not one shotting.

#45 Edited by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

#46 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

@karazor-el: Actually read the scan Questions posted.She blacked out from Clark's punch and only woke up due to the heat of re-entry

#47 Edited by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

#48 Posted by reaverlation (16996 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol

#49 Edited by KaraZor-el (1750 posts) - - Show Bio

#50 Edited by Frozen (15093 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaverlation:

Not with New 52 feats as well. With New 52 feats, Superman is stronger than either Diana or Teth by a considerable margin and they're not overpowering Superman physically. And Superman>Black Adam bloodlusted or not

But with New-52 feats there are massive contradictions. His durability is skewed all over the place if this holds true, considering New-52 Superman has a habit of getting smacked around in combat. And also with New-52, comes the fact that Adam can matter-manipulate, Superman's speed contradicting with Pre-New 52 canon {he gets tagged far more often in the New-52}.

If Superman > Black Adam held true then it would have shown in their actual fight. It did not. In fact, Adam actually did well recovering from Clark's punches, and he was midlly aggressive.

Not really. Teth would last just as long as Diana would or slightly better at most

Not really. An angry Superman already fought a mild Teth, if you really want to dig out the feats of a bloodlust Teth, he has one-shotted Jay Garrick, Alan Scott and Power Girl. And destroyed a machine the three could not.

A bloodlust Superman already fought a bloodlust Captain Marvel in Superman #102 and they only stalemated. So much for 'one shotting' {Captain Marvel is Cyborg Superman and Superman is Black Adam, due to illusions}.

She blocked Clark's heat vision before being blitzed into the sun.And Diana couldn't take down Superman Morals on or off/bloodlusted.

Diana actually held her own, which is the point I'm making - she can hold her own, with her Zeus lightninf capability and Teth helping, Superman really will not win.

Jay successfully blitzed Teth.The difference here is that not only is Clark at least as fast as Jay, but Clark strikes harder than Jay and is way more durable as well.

In their first encounter, he did - their second encounter yielded different results and Teth promptly perceived and one-shotted him. Jay's as fast Clark and speed alone did not seal the deal, especially considering Diana arguably surpasses Clark in reactions.

2 characters with Morals on and would beat for a majority, yup Clark wins

Not really. As I've said, Teth has no morals and Wonder Woman has knowledge/equipment to incapitate him, he's not escaping her lasso.