@Pokeysteve: First of all Diana only barely holds back in the fight whilst Superman wanted 'Doomsday' to suffer for 'killing' Lois hence whilst he was angry/bloodlusted, he wasn't going to kill Wonder Woman immediately. Secondly, in this scan, note Wonder Woman's choice of her words. Her tactic in this fight is not to beat a mind controlled Superman but to get to Max. Hence she says "I just have to slow him down" Not beat him or kill him. Slow him down. That was all she was doing in the fight. Here's the scan as a reminder: Also note the broken wrist despite the indestructible bracelet.
No. It is not relevant. You yourself even admitted he holds back against her. Well why would he not hold back against her here when this is an in-character battle? Are you assuming he will do something decidedly out of character for an in-character battle? Please explain how that works.
And yeah, a magical hammer that endows the wielder with the power of Thor on top of their own would be more than enough to give WW easy wins over Superman. I did not think I had to explain Thor's powers to anyone here, which is why I did not give details as to the how. Are you ignorant of Thor? Need I explain him to you?
So what? If Mjolnir doesn't give her Thor's strength/durability stacked onto her's, it will make little difference, because she won't be using it very effectively. I do not see Mjolnir making much of a difference being used as a blunt weapon with an occasional energy blast. If her strength/durability does get boosted, he'll step things up. He's stronger than Thor and MUCH stronger than her. At best I figure the two of them would be modestly stronger than him, if at all, and it's not like he hasn't faced opponents stronger than himself(Pocketverse Kryptonians, Superboy Prime, Doomsday, Despero, ect).
And I know Thor's powers. Doesn't matter.
Thor's powers stacked onto hers will make a difference because she is able to give Superman a good fight and even win all by herself.
Can you prove that she will not use this additional power effectively?
Mjolnir is not just a blunt weapon with an occasional energy blast...
He has not faced opponents stronger than him that were also better fighters as well as having powers that are specifically geared to defeat him.
You do not know Thor's powers if you think they do not matter.
@Pokeysteve: First of all Diana only barely holds back in the fight whilst Superman wanted 'Doomsday' to suffer for 'killing' Lois hence whilst he was angry/bloodlusted, he wasn't going to kill Wonder Woman immediately. Secondly, in this scan, note Wonder Woman's choice of her words. Her tactic in this fight is not to beat a mind controlled Superman but to get to Max. Hence she says "I just have to slow him down" Not beat him or kill him. Slow him down. That was all she was doing in the fight. Here's the scan as a reminder: Also note the broken wrist despite the indestructible bracelet.
She also said in the connecting issue that she was doing her best not to kill Superman considering that was the only way she saw herself beating him. Also, Superman did not break her wrist through the indestructible bracelets. He broke her wrist where the bracelets were not protecting. Note how the bracelet is completely undamaged. I do not recall Superman saying he wanted to drag out the fight with Doomsday. I do recall him saying that he thought Doomsday was smarter though. Regardless, WW fought Superman while he had the intention to murder her. He has no such intention for this battle.
@Erik: There's a scan from the Adventures of Superman issue that ties in with the Wonder Woman issue of the Superman/Wonder Woman fight where Superman says he wants to make Doomsday suffer for killing Lois. That means dragging out the fight and causing pain to Wonder Woman who he thought was Doomsday. And my mistake on the bracelet breaking wrist thing. Though Wonder Woman has never decisively beaten Superman or had the upper hand against him whereas Superman has been shown to be at an advantage against Wonder Woman and Diana's admitted she can't beat him in a combat scenario. Though as with Wonder Woman, Superman has never beaten her. But in their fights, Superman has come off better against Wonder Woman most of the time. However this is a bit off topic as with Thor's strength and durability on top of her own plus her apparent insight due to Athena's Eye or whatever, if what you said earlier was true, she can learn about Mjolnir's abilities and overpower Superman. This fight is still spite IMO.
Supes and Diana also fought during her book's tie-in to Last Laugh, and he came off looking better, but I'm not sure if he was amped by Circe at the time or not.
Have you ever read any of their fights lol once she gets serious she handles him. Pretty easily in one and with some difficulty in another. I think you just don't like Wonder Woman. Sundipped Superman was barely able to knock her out. You can bash on her abilities all you want but her skill does make up for her not being as powerful as him. This isn't opinion and has been on panel, in continuity, more than once.
I've read every fight of theirs(their's?) I'm aware of. She's not close to him. And Superman was not Sun-Dipped, and it was rather easy for him to KO her, and he has superior feats to knocking her back to Earth in seconds without being amped like people argue(in fact he was in less than peak condition in at least one). And she was not "barely" knocked-out. Being revived by re-entry heat doesn't mean you were barely knocked-out. And I'm not bashing on her, I'm just telling the truth.
Lol you clearly haven't if that's what you think. No he wan't sun dipped. Poor choice of words on my part. They were right next to the sun though so he was amped. Seconds after she hit the ground she was up, got serious and started wailing on him. You can't argue that. That's what happened.
Yes, I have. The problem is I'm not a Wonder Woman fanboy. Twice she's looked blatantly inferior to him while he was casual fighting her, another time we see her looking even AT BEST when he's A: Mind controlled(thus less effective), B: Likely weakened from days of no sunlight and Cruicfer's feeding, and C: STILL holding back even though he's mind controlled. And other examples. Not to mention the fact that he's literally proven to be stronger than her and OTHERS COMBINED.
And what little amp he got in that fight is irrelevant. Superman's thrown a much larger mass than Wonder Woman from Earth to the Sun in a similar time frame, WHILE WEAKENED.
So, yep, if being knocked so hard you're sent the distance between Earth and the Sun in moments is what it takes to one-shot Wonder Woman, Superman can do it with ease if he chooses to. And she only recovered because of re-entry burn-up. Had she missed the Earth's atmosphere, or had been knocked the opposite direction, she wouldn't have been able to do anything.
And that's not even including the fact that you're failing to mention the ONLY REASON SHE WAS ABLE TO GET AN ADVANTAGE IN THAT FIGHT. If Superman hadn't been handicapped thinking he was fighting Doomsday, she wouldn't have been able to sneak-up on him. Also, I've proven that he can one-shot her without being near the Sun. On the other hand, the fight itself shows her failing to KO Superman while doing the equivalent of you sneaking-up on someone and bashing him between the ears(a vulnerable area) with two cast iron skillets. He can one-shot her if he wants to, she can't do the same though.
@a88378438 said:
@Delta1938: however,that not GA superman,that was a new origin,the entire sa superman start in superman 053
don't let me say again or unless you should be read comic?
You're wrong. Just give it up. You're just pulling some BS claim out of the air.
@Jayfournines said:
@TheThe said:
I dont get something. In all the " Superman VS Thor " threads , the consensus is that Superman wins. If Thor can match WW in skills and fight experience apart from having Mjolnir, basically, isnt WW+ Mjolnir = Thor ? So what is the reason why people think she can win here, when on the other side a lot of people give the win to Superman when Thor is his opponent ? Wonder Woman with a the god hammer is pretty much the same than Thor without a lasso, dont you think ?
Honestly I gave the win to Diana because I thought her powers would be stacked up to Thor's...but if that is not the case then Supes wins this
I don't think it'd be enough even if his strength/durability stacks. As I've explained before.
@Erik said:
@Delta1938 said:
No. It is not relevant. You yourself even admitted he holds back against her. Well why would he not hold back against her here when this is an in-character battle? Are you assuming he will do something decidedly out of character for an in-character battle? Please explain how that works.
And yeah, a magical hammer that endows the wielder with the power of Thor on top of their own would be more than enough to give WW easy wins over Superman. I did not think I had to explain Thor's powers to anyone here, which is why I did not give details as to the how. Are you ignorant of Thor? Need I explain him to you?
So what? If Mjolnir doesn't give her Thor's strength/durability stacked onto her's, it will make little difference, because she won't be using it very effectively. I do not see Mjolnir making much of a difference being used as a blunt weapon with an occasional energy blast. If her strength/durability does get boosted, he'll step things up. He's stronger than Thor and MUCH stronger than her. At best I figure the two of them would be modestly stronger than him, if at all, and it's not like he hasn't faced opponents stronger than himself(Pocketverse Kryptonians, Superboy Prime, Doomsday, Despero, ect).
And I know Thor's powers. Doesn't matter.
Thor's powers stacked onto hers will make a difference because she is able to give Superman a good fight and even win all by herself.
Can you prove that she will not use this additional power effectively?
Mjolnir is not just a blunt weapon with an occasional energy blast...
He has not faced opponents stronger than him that were also better fighters as well as having powers that are specifically geared to defeat him.
You do not know Thor's powers if you think they do not matter.
No, she's only able to give Superman a good fight if he holds back or win if he's handicapped. Her ONLY WINS are ONLY TECHNICAL WINS AND HAPPENED ONLY BECAUSE HE WAS HANDICAPPED, while she looked BLATANTLY INFERIOR to him.
Oh, I think the fact that she'll be unfamiliar with Mjolnir's exotic and esoteric powers is good enough reason to think she won't use Mjolnir effectively.
Yes, I know Mjolnir's not just a blunt weapon with an occasional energy blast. But A: That's typically how Thor uses it against bricks, and B: look above.
Her fighting skill is irrelevant considering his speed advantage, and Thor's powers aren't geared to defeat Superman. Nor do I think she'd be much stronger than him even if Thor's strength does stack on top.
Yes, I know Thor's powers. Look at my answer to your second question for why they won't matter.
@Erik said:
@Lvenger said:
@Pokeysteve: First of all Diana only barely holds back in the fight whilst Superman wanted 'Doomsday' to suffer for 'killing' Lois hence whilst he was angry/bloodlusted, he wasn't going to kill Wonder Woman immediately. Secondly, in this scan, note Wonder Woman's choice of her words. Her tactic in this fight is not to beat a mind controlled Superman but to get to Max. Hence she says "I just have to slow him down" Not beat him or kill him. Slow him down. That was all she was doing in the fight. Here's the scan as a reminder: Also note the broken wrist despite the indestructible bracelet.
She also said in the connecting issue that she was doing her best not to kill Superman considering that was the only way she saw herself beating him. Also, Superman did not break her wrist through the indestructible bracelets. He broke her wrist where the bracelets were not protecting. Note how the bracelet is completely undamaged. I do not recall Superman saying he wanted to drag out the fight with Doomsday. I do recall him saying that he thought Doomsday was smarter though. Regardless, WW fought Superman while he had the intention to murder her. He has no such intention for this battle.
"I wanted him DEAD. I wanted him to BURN. And I wanted him to SUFFER first. I would have made him SUFFER for an ETERNITY for what he'd DONE." ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #643. Which, I might add, I've posted this scan more than once. And yes, this was written by Greg Rucka, the same writer who wrote the SACRIFICE fight in WONDER WOMAN #219.
@CitizenBane said:
Supes and Diana also fought during her book's tie-in to Last Laugh, and he came off looking better, but I'm not sure if he was amped by Circe at the time or not.
If he was amped she probably would've died. Also, his mental state handicapped him there, too. The only "amp" would've been the spikes, but that only showed ANY EFFECT WHATSOEVER one time in the fight. It's not like it was piercing her and tearing chunks every time he punched her.@Thor's hammmer said:
No, she's only able to give Superman a good fight if he holds back or win if he's handicapped. Her ONLY WINS are ONLY TECHNICAL WINS AND HAPPENED ONLY BECAUSE HE WAS HANDICAPPED, while she looked BLATANTLY INFERIOR to him.
Whatever. You say she wins because he holds back. Good thing this is an in-character fight then and it is in-character for Superman to hold back. ;)
Oh, I think the fact that she'll be unfamiliar with Mjolnir's exotic and esoteric powers is good enough reason to think she won't use Mjolnir effectively.
Never seemed to hinder any user of Mjolnir before so I do not see why it would happen here.
Yes, I know Mjolnir's not just a blunt weapon with an occasional energy blast. But A: That's typically how Thor uses it against bricks, and B: look above.
So if I take a pistol and shoot it sideways, then give it to a friend to fire, is this person incapable of firing it correctly? More to the point, WW is not Thor and is not bound to use the varied abilities afforded by Mjolnir in the limited way Thor chooses to.
Her fighting skill is irrelevant considering his speed advantage, and Thor's powers aren't geared to defeat Superman. Nor do I think she'd be much stronger than him even if Thor's strength does stack on top.
He has no such speed advantage. He has a travel speed advantage before she gets Thor's travel speed but after they are about the same. Especially on Earth, where Superman will not use FTL because of the harm it will cause. WW has the superior combat speed. Add Thor's combat speed capabilities to her own and Superman will have no chance.
Yes, I know Thor's powers. Look at my answer to your second question for why they won't matter.
Sooooo.... Thor, a character with an entire arsenal of magical attacks, will be irrelevant in a fight against Superman? I love fanboys. They make the most sense.
His hand had covered her bracelet.
He had part of his hand over her bracelet and guess what, the bracelet was undamaged. It does not take a genius by any stretch to see that the part that was uncovered by the bracelet is what was broken. Why do you think WW moved the bracelet down to cover the broken part of her arm after? Because she was using it as a splint. How would that have been possible if it had been crushed?
@Pokeysteve: First of all Diana only barely holds back in the fight whilst Superman wanted 'Doomsday' to suffer for 'killing' Lois hence whilst he was angry/bloodlusted, he wasn't going to kill Wonder Woman immediately. Secondly, in this scan, note Wonder Woman's choice of her words. Her tactic in this fight is not to beat a mind controlled Superman but to get to Max. Hence she says "I just have to slow him down" Not beat him or kill him. Slow him down. That was all she was doing in the fight. Here's the scan as a reminder: Also note the broken wrist despite the indestructible bracelet.
I remember the fight very well. He hurts her a lot before she decides to go after Max. In just this scan we can conclude that Wonder Woman (with a broken wrist I might add) can easily duck his punches, dodge his heat vision and knock him 50 - 100 yards on his ass with little effort. That's just this scan. She knows how to turn his strengths into weaknesses. That's me arguing for when she doesn't have Thor's hammer. She doesn't need it.
@Pokeysteve: First of all Diana only barely holds back in the fight whilst Superman wanted 'Doomsday' to suffer for 'killing' Lois hence whilst he was angry/bloodlusted, he wasn't going to kill Wonder Woman immediately. Secondly, in this scan, note Wonder Woman's choice of her words. Her tactic in this fight is not to beat a mind controlled Superman but to get to Max. Hence she says "I just have to slow him down" Not beat him or kill him. Slow him down. That was all she was doing in the fight. Here's the scan as a reminder: Also note the broken wrist despite the indestructible bracelet.
I remember the fight very well. He hurts her a lot before she decides to go after Max. In just this scan we can conclude that Wonder Woman (with a broken wrist I might add) can easily duck his punches, dodge his heat vision and knock him 50 - 100 yards on his ass with little effort. That's just this scan. She knows how to turn his strengths into weaknesses. That's me arguing for when she doesn't have Thor's hammer. She doesn't need it.
So, in other words, you're refusing to acknowledge the extenuating circumstances that actually allowed her to accomplish anything at all in that fight. Here's how well she did when he was going all-out and didn't have things handicapping him.
And don't bother trying to argue I'm pulling things out of context. It won't end well for you.
@Erik said:
@Delta1938:
No, she's only able to give Superman a good fight if he holds back or win if he's handicapped. Her ONLY WINS are ONLY TECHNICAL WINS AND HAPPENED ONLY BECAUSE HE WAS HANDICAPPED, while she looked BLATANTLY INFERIOR to him.
Whatever. You say she wins because he holds back. Good thing this is an in-character fight then and it is in-character for Superman to hold back. ;)
Oh, I think the fact that she'll be unfamiliar with Mjolnir's exotic and esoteric powers is good enough reason to think she won't use Mjolnir effectively.
Never seemed to hinder any user of Mjolnir before so I do not see why it would happen here.
Yes, I know Mjolnir's not just a blunt weapon with an occasional energy blast. But A: That's typically how Thor uses it against bricks, and B: look above.
So if I take a pistol and shoot it sideways, then give it to a friend to fire, is this person incapable of firing it correctly? More to the point, WW is not Thor and is not bound to use the varied abilities afforded by Mjolnir in the limited way Thor chooses to.
Her fighting skill is irrelevant considering his speed advantage, and Thor's powers aren't geared to defeat Superman. Nor do I think she'd be much stronger than him even if Thor's strength does stack on top.
He has no such speed advantage. He has a travel speed advantage before she gets Thor's travel speed but after they are about the same. Especially on Earth, where Superman will not use FTL because of the harm it will cause. WW has the superior combat speed. Add Thor's combat speed capabilities to her own and Superman will have no chance.
Yes, I know Thor's powers. Look at my answer to your second question for why they won't matter.
Sooooo.... Thor, a character with an entire arsenal of magical attacks, will be irrelevant in a fight against Superman? I love fanboys. They make the most sense.
His hand had covered her bracelet.
He had part of his hand over her bracelet and guess what, the bracelet was undamaged. It does not take a genius by any stretch to see that the part that was uncovered by the bracelet is what was broken. Why do you think WW moved the bracelet down to cover the broken part of her arm after? Because she was using it as a splint. How would that have been possible if it had been crushed?
Nope, I'm not saying she wins. Not in the least. You grasping at straws is not a valid argument. If she does get his strength added, he'll step things up as need-be. If he notices she's stronger, he'll hold back less or not at all. How hard is that to understand?
Did you completely miss the part I argued in this thread where Eric Masterson had trouble with Mjolnir due to his lack of familiarity with it?
Completely inaccurate analogy. In other words, a strawman. A pistol is fairly straight forward to use. This would be more like having your friend use your computer with an operating system completely foreign to him, and oh yeah you want him to make new programs on it and he doesn't have any education or experience in programing whatsoever. He might be able to figure-out the basics for operating the computer, but it doesn't mean he'll be able to make full use of it. I have a question. Were you really failing without knowing it, or were you intently trying to make a deceitful analogy to try and counter my point?
Yes, he does have a speed advantage. Either her fighting skills are completely overrated, or she is not close to him in speed for him to treat her like this when he fights back, CASUALLY against her.
And he was casual and nonchalant about her in the entire fight, like he didn't think she was a threat.
Your attempts to make it seem like Mjolnir is something she can instinctively use effectively don't work on me. Are you just dishonest? Or, well, you can figure the other answer.
uh No. Her bracelet covered pretty much her entire wrist when we first see him grab it. His hand would've been over bracelet covered parts as well. If you're trying to argue they slide down, A: Prove it and B: Explain how that would make for an effective defensive weapon if it's always moving around.
@a88378438 said:
@Delta1938: that was too funny,you say my wrong but you even don't read comics
OMG
WTF are you talking about? What are you on? How exactly do I not read comics because I actually know when the Silver Age started? There's only two options. You're either too stubborn to admit you're wrong, or, well, you won't like option 2.
I know you are not saying she wins. You are acting like a fanboy or a troll though with your self contradictions. Take your pick. Wonder Woman wins this, maybe even easily. She has the ability to do it all by herself but she gets an anti-Superman weapon here.
I know you are not saying she wins. You are acting like a fanboy or a troll though with your self contradictions. Take your pick. Wonder Woman wins this, maybe even easily. She has the ability to do it all by herself but she gets an anti-Superman weapon here.
Ah, so you ignore everything I posted, call me a fanboy and then just says she wins. Concessions accepted.
@Erik: At the end of the day Wonder Woman does win because I posted a scan i found and someone else posted another scan and both are of Wonder Woman beating Superman which is canon.. so
I know you are not saying she wins. You are acting like a fanboy or a troll though with your self contradictions. Take your pick. Wonder Woman wins this, maybe even easily. She has the ability to do it all by herself but she gets an anti-Superman weapon here.
Ah, so you ignore everything I posted, call me a fanboy and then just says she wins. Concessions accepted.
Well, maybe if you would stop acting like a fanboy/troll, I would bother reading more than your first sentence. Does it hurt when people use your strategies against you? I bet it stings so much not being validated. Wonder Woman wins.
Have you ever read any of their fights lol once she gets serious she handles him. Pretty easily in one and with some difficulty in another. I think you just don't like Wonder Woman. Sundipped Superman was barely able to knock her out. You can bash on her abilities all you want but her skill does make up for her not being as powerful as him. This isn't opinion and has been on panel, in continuity, more than once.
I've read every fight of theirs(their's?) I'm aware of. She's not close to him. And Superman was not Sun-Dipped, and it was rather easy for him to KO her, and he has superior feats to knocking her back to Earth in seconds without being amped like people argue(in fact he was in less than peak condition in at least one). And she was not "barely" knocked-out. Being revived by re-entry heat doesn't mean you were barely knocked-out. And I'm not bashing on her, I'm just telling the truth.
Lol you clearly haven't if that's what you think. No he wan't sun dipped. Poor choice of words on my part. They were right next to the sun though so he was amped. Seconds after she hit the ground she was up, got serious and started wailing on him. You can't argue that. That's what happened.
Yes, I have. The problem is I'm not a Wonder Woman fanboy. Twice she's looked blatantly inferior to him while he was casual fighting her, another time we see her looking even AT BEST when he's A: Mind controlled(thus less effective), B: Likely weakened from days of no sunlight and Cruicfer's feeding, and C: STILL holding back even though he's mind controlled. And other examples. Not to mention the fact that he's literally proven to be stronger than her and OTHERS COMBINED.
And what little amp he got in that fight is irrelevant. Superman's thrown a much larger mass than Wonder Woman from Earth to the Sun in a similar time frame, WHILE WEAKENED.
So, yep, if being knocked so hard you're sent the distance between Earth and the Sun in moments is what it takes to one-shot Wonder Woman, Superman can do it with ease if he chooses to. And she only recovered because of re-entry burn-up. Had she missed the Earth's atmosphere, or had been knocked the opposite direction, she wouldn't have been able to do anything.
And that's not even including the fact that you're failing to mention the ONLY REASON SHE WAS ABLE TO GET AN ADVANTAGE IN THAT FIGHT. If Superman hadn't been handicapped thinking he was fighting Doomsday, she wouldn't have been able to sneak-up on him. Also, I've proven that he can one-shot her without being near the Sun. On the other hand, the fight itself shows her failing to KO Superman while doing the equivalent of you sneaking-up on someone and bashing him between the ears(a vulnerable area) with two cast iron skillets. He can one-shot her if he wants to, she can't do the same though.
You're a Superman fanboy which is also a problem. My biggest problem with your post was that he'd be less effective while mind controlled. His abilities weren't influenced in any way. He was just made to believe he was fighting someone else. Someone even more powerful than Wonder Woman. How does she look inferior too him when she's kicking him around while avoiding all of his attacks? I don't understand how you can say that. Superman is very strong and definitely stronger than her but no one is arguing that. WW is durable enough to handle his punches, and his heat vision, and his freeze breath. She fast enough to handle his speed and smart enough to overcome his hearing. She is his superior in combat. You seem to like caps lock so I'll write this so you can read it, THE ONLY REASON SHE DIDN'T KILL HIM IS BECAUSE SHE LEFT. Don't you think it's weird we've never seen a bloodlusted Wonder Woman? She'd destroy him. There's really no point in talking about this. No one is changing sides and you're being just plain rude to everyone who doesn't agree with you.
@Delta1938: Those scans of Wonder Woman beating Superman are canon... so really their is no argument in this of Superman winning like it would be an easy win... I agree logically Superman would win and he should of won, but at the end of the day he was defeated by Wonder Woman.
I know you are not saying she wins. You are acting like a fanboy or a troll though with your self contradictions. Take your pick. Wonder Woman wins this, maybe even easily. She has the ability to do it all by herself but she gets an anti-Superman weapon here.
Ah, so you ignore everything I posted, call me a fanboy and then just says she wins. Concessions accepted.
Well, maybe if you would stop acting like a fanboy/troll, I would bother reading more than your first sentence. Does it hurt when people use your strategies against you? I bet it stings so much not being validated. Wonder Woman wins.
All I see is, "WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!" from a butthurt poster. You've been called-out on using manipulative tactics, so you just ignore everything I say, call me a fanboy, and tell me I'm wrong. Fail.
@Pokeysteve said:
@Delta1938 said:
@Pokeysteve said:
@Delta1938 said:
Have you ever read any of their fights lol once she gets serious she handles him. Pretty easily in one and with some difficulty in another. I think you just don't like Wonder Woman. Sundipped Superman was barely able to knock her out. You can bash on her abilities all you want but her skill does make up for her not being as powerful as him. This isn't opinion and has been on panel, in continuity, more than once.
I've read every fight of theirs(their's?) I'm aware of. She's not close to him. And Superman was not Sun-Dipped, and it was rather easy for him to KO her, and he has superior feats to knocking her back to Earth in seconds without being amped like people argue(in fact he was in less than peak condition in at least one). And she was not "barely" knocked-out. Being revived by re-entry heat doesn't mean you were barely knocked-out. And I'm not bashing on her, I'm just telling the truth.
Lol you clearly haven't if that's what you think. No he wan't sun dipped. Poor choice of words on my part. They were right next to the sun though so he was amped. Seconds after she hit the ground she was up, got serious and started wailing on him. You can't argue that. That's what happened.
Yes, I have. The problem is I'm not a Wonder Woman fanboy. Twice she's looked blatantly inferior to him while he was casual fighting her, another time we see her looking even AT BEST when he's A: Mind controlled(thus less effective), B: Likely weakened from days of no sunlight and Cruicfer's feeding, and C: STILL holding back even though he's mind controlled. And other examples. Not to mention the fact that he's literally proven to be stronger than her and OTHERS COMBINED.
And what little amp he got in that fight is irrelevant. Superman's thrown a much larger mass than Wonder Woman from Earth to the Sun in a similar time frame, WHILE WEAKENED.
So, yep, if being knocked so hard you're sent the distance between Earth and the Sun in moments is what it takes to one-shot Wonder Woman, Superman can do it with ease if he chooses to. And she only recovered because of re-entry burn-up. Had she missed the Earth's atmosphere, or had been knocked the opposite direction, she wouldn't have been able to do anything.
And that's not even including the fact that you're failing to mention the ONLY REASON SHE WAS ABLE TO GET AN ADVANTAGE IN THAT FIGHT. If Superman hadn't been handicapped thinking he was fighting Doomsday, she wouldn't have been able to sneak-up on him. Also, I've proven that he can one-shot her without being near the Sun. On the other hand, the fight itself shows her failing to KO Superman while doing the equivalent of you sneaking-up on someone and bashing him between the ears(a vulnerable area) with two cast iron skillets. He can one-shot her if he wants to, she can't do the same though.
You're a Superman fanboy which is also a problem. My biggest problem with your post was that he'd be less effective while mind controlled. His abilities weren't influenced in any way. He was just made to believe he was fighting someone else. Someone even more powerful than Wonder Woman. How does she look inferior too him when she's kicking him around while avoiding all of his attacks? I don't understand how you can say that. Superman is very strong and definitely stronger than her but no one is arguing that. WW is durable enough to handle his punches, and his heat vision, and his freeze breath. She fast enough to handle his speed and smart enough to overcome his hearing. She is his superior in combat. You seem to like caps lock so I'll write this so you can read it, THE ONLY REASON SHE DIDN'T KILL HIM IS BECAUSE SHE LEFT. Don't you think it's weird we've never seen a bloodlusted Wonder Woman? She'd destroy him. There's really no point in talking about this. No one is changing sides and you're being just plain rude to everyone who doesn't agree with you.
I don't think you're even comprehending my point. He DIDN'T KNOW WHO HE WAS FIGHTING. Wonder Woman was able to turn the tables because she snuck-up on him. He wouldn't expect that from Doomsday. She only got her technical win with the tiara because he wasn't expecting Doomsday's fist to suddenly detach and hit him in the throat. But you're either incapable of comprehending this or are too stubborn to admit it. And you have no proof she's strong enough to handle his Heat Vision(since he did not go all-out) or his Freeze Breath(which he didn't go all-out with either). In fact, he's one-shot her BY ACCIDENT when using his Heat Vision on a force-field. And she's not fast enough to handle his speed if he's actually trying, I already posted two examples. And "smart enough to overcome his hearing?" You mean sneak-up on him when he's expecting Doomsday? Plus he was fighting like a retard because he was irrational. Or do you think that sending Doomsday back to Earth where he can kill more people and gets his no-flight handicap negated, instead of throwing him into the Sun where his mobility disadvantage is made worse and Superman gets powered-up, is a smart move? It's a bunch of BS to think a bloodlusted Wonder Woman would destroy him, unless he's handicapped or not fighting back. He MAKES HER LOOK INFERIOR EVEN WHEN HE'S CASUAL FIGHTING HER. If they're both bloodlusted she gets destroyed. She couldn't do anything to stop him in SUPERMAN/BATMAN #15.
@TERMINATOR1000 said:
@Erik: At the end of the day Wonder Woman does win because I posted a scan i found and someone else posted another scan and both are of Wonder Woman beating Superman which is canon.. so
She's only beaten him on technicalities when he's handicapped(both times the handicap allowed her to get the technical win), and she looked blatantly inferior in both. No, she does not win. People who argue for Wonder Woman against Superman with her two wins are either ignorant or fanboys/fangirls.
@TERMINATOR1000 said:
@Delta1938: Those scans of Wonder Woman beating Superman are canon... so really their is no argument in this of Superman winning like it would be an easy win... I agree logically Superman would win and he should of won, but at the end of the day he was defeated by Wonder Woman.
Have you actually read the fights? I've been pointing-out, he was seriously handicapped when she won, and still looked bad. Are you even aware of their fight history? Out of the fights I'm aware of, he has 4 or 5 wins to her two(with extenuating circumstances handicapping him). How are pulling a couple of out of context wins and saying that's how it'd go in a normal encounter a valid argument?
All I see is, "WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!" from a butthurt poster. You've been called-out on using manipulative tactics, so you just ignore everything I say, call me a fanboy, and tell me I'm wrong. Fail.
So by your logic, those that do not read your entire arguments must be butthurt? Seems like rather flawed and childish logic but that is fine with me. It just gives me more to point out.
I ignore everything you are saying because you sprinkle in lies with your posts. I do not waste time trying to have conversation with liars, trolls or fanboys. You are all three.
All I see is, "WAAAAH WAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!" from a butthurt poster. You've been called-out on using manipulative tactics, so you just ignore everything I say, call me a fanboy, and tell me I'm wrong. Fail.
So by your logic, those that do not read your entire arguments must be butthurt? Seems like rather flawed and childish logic but that is fine with me. It just gives me more to point out.
I ignore everything you are saying because you sprinkle in lies with your posts. I do not waste time trying to have conversation with liars, trolls or fanboys. You are all three.
No, it's not childish. You might want to grow a pair if my not being absolutely polite bothers you so much. And you're a hypocrite. You claim I'm sprinkling lies in my posts, yet you gave a deceiving analogy to try and argue that Wonder Woman would use Mjolnir effectively. It sounds like you're just trying to cover yourself, and throwing in "troll" and "fanboy" for good measure to justify your failure to acknowledge my arguments.
No, my logic is that you're ignoring my posts BECAUSE you're butthurt. And you're a hypocrite. You claim I'm sprinkling lies in my posts, yet you gave a deceiving analogy to try and argue that Wonder Woman would use Mjolnir effectively. It sounds like you're just trying to cover yourself, and throwing in "troll" and "fanboy" for good measure to justify your failure to acknowledge my arguments.
Concessions accepted.
Stating "Wonder Woman wins" is not a concession. You are either confused as to what that means or we can just add that to the list of lies you are trying to spread to mislead users here. Liars here get no respect from anyone on this site. I do not expect you to last very long here before you are more trouble than you are worth in moderator eyes.
@Delta1938: How was superman handicapped? i relooked through the scans and he doesnt look handicapped... I didnt see any kryptonite involved.... he was using heat vision, fist fighting abilities etc..etc... and still got creamed by diana.... please explained to me what happened to him that made him handicapped?
No, my logic is that you're ignoring my posts BECAUSE you're butthurt. And you're a hypocrite. You claim I'm sprinkling lies in my posts, yet you gave a deceiving analogy to try and argue that Wonder Woman would use Mjolnir effectively. It sounds like you're just trying to cover yourself, and throwing in "troll" and "fanboy" for good measure to justify your failure to acknowledge my arguments.
Concessions accepted.
Stating "Wonder Woman wins" is not a concession. You are either confused as to what that means or we can just add that to the list of lies you are trying to spread to mislead users here. Liars here get no respect from anyone on this site. I do not expect you to last very long here before you are more trouble than you are worth in moderator eyes.
hahahah No, I'm accepting your concession because you're clearly ignoring what you can't counter. You made a strawman to "prove" that Diana would use Mjolnir effectively, you ignored the examples I gave showing Superman blatantly faster than her, and ignored my point that if she does get a strength boost, he'd hold back less as needed, amongst other things. Then you call me a liar. What have I lied about? You've never stated it. The fact that you gave such an inaccurate analogy to claim Diana would effectively use Mjolnir and not acknowledge and clarify when called-out on it's inaccuracy is much more telling that YOU are the liar than you just saying I lied.
@TERMINATOR1000 said:
@Delta1938: How was superman handicapped? i relooked through the scans and he doesnt look handicapped... I didnt see any kryptonite involved.... he was using heat vision, fist fighting abilities etc..etc... and still got creamed by diana.... please explained to me what happened to him that made him handicapped?
In both fights his mental state handicapped his effectiveness. In WONDER WOMAN #175(I think it was) his mind was primitive and animalistic. He was overwhelming her and she only won via technicality by restraining him with the lasso and ending the spell Circe put on him. In WONDER WOMAN #219 he was irrational from rage and grief(I could be wrong, but I believe the writer himself specifically stated this) and he was in fact fighting like an idiot. He thought she was Doomsday, who's at a mobility disadvantage in space. When he had her near the Sun, instead of throwing her into the Sun and fighting her there, he punches her back to Earth. Do you really think it'd be a smart move to send Doomsday back to Earth, where he can kill others and no longer has that handicap of he can't move much in space, instead of putting Doomsday in the Sun, which would further his mobility handicap and Superman would be powered-up?
And on top of that, BECAUSE he thought she was Doomsday, she was able to pull-off things he would not expect from Doomsday. She started turning the tables because she snuck-up on him and bashed his ears with her bracelets. And I think you're referring to her winning by throwing her tiara at him, slashing his throat. He didn't know it was coming, because he was under the illusion that he was fighting Doomsday. If he knew it was coming, he could've dodged it or deflected it with his breath. People keep posting that, without ever realizing that he COULDN'T SEE IT COMING SINCE HE WAS UNDER AN ILLUSION THAT HE WAS FIGHTING DOOMSDAY.
Also, it mostly snaps him out of it. In the next issue we see he actually heals from the throat slash pretty shortly after. Once he fought Gog, and got impaled, and injected with liquified Kryptonite. But he's still able to fight Gog after that. I think if Superman hadn't been in his emotional state, he would've still been able to fight even with his throat slashed.
hahahah No, I'm accepting your concession because you're clearly ignoring what you can't counter. You made a strawman to "prove" that Diana would use Mjolnir effectively, you ignored the examples I gave showing Superman blatantly faster than her, and ignored my point that if she does get a strength boost, he'd hold back less as needed, amongst other things. Then you call me a liar. What have I lied about? You've never stated it. The fact that you gave such an inaccurate analogy to claim Diana would effectively use Mjolnir and not acknowledge and clarify when called-out on it's inaccuracy is much more telling that YOU are the liar than you just saying I lied.
You are confused. I offered no such concession. In fact, I clearly stated Wonder Woman wins many times and outlined why. It is you that is choosing to ignore and dismiss actual arguments. I only ignored your lies and fanboy arguments. If you are ready to have an actual discussion and keep a lid on your fanboyism, then I would be willing to prove you wrong in a reasonable debate. That is if you are even capable of such a thing though. Thus far, I have little to make me believe you are.
This Delta1938 keeps saying superman was in an illusion of his mind that he thought he was fighting doomsday and even if that was true thats no excuse... if someone has beaten you before and they fight you again do you just sit there and let them beat the hell out of you? though superman knows doomsday far superior than he is i dont think he would just let doomsday beat him down that easy. you'd think superman would of given it everything hes got... so i'd like to know as well where this illusion thing came from.
I'm not sure who would win, but i would be rooting for Supes. I just don't like WW.
I personally would see superman winning the most, but there are scans of ww beating supes, but i never found wonder woman all that impressive myself. I always thought superman was the stuff.
hahahah No, I'm accepting your concession because you're clearly ignoring what you can't counter. You made a strawman to "prove" that Diana would use Mjolnir effectively, you ignored the examples I gave showing Superman blatantly faster than her, and ignored my point that if she does get a strength boost, he'd hold back less as needed, amongst other things. Then you call me a liar. What have I lied about? You've never stated it. The fact that you gave such an inaccurate analogy to claim Diana would effectively use Mjolnir and not acknowledge and clarify when called-out on it's inaccuracy is much more telling that YOU are the liar than you just saying I lied.
You are confused. I offered no such concession. In fact, I clearly stated Wonder Woman wins many times and outlined why. It is you that is choosing to ignore and dismiss actual arguments. I only ignored your lies and fanboy arguments. If you are ready to have an actual discussion and keep a lid on your fanboyism, then I would be willing to prove you wrong in a reasonable debate. That is if you are even capable of such a thing though. Thus far, I have little to make me believe you are.
You're conceeding that you can't argue with me. You claim that you won't argue with a liar, troll or fanboy and say I'm all three. Yet, trolls don't back their claims, a troll wouldn't take the time to explain to someone else(since you think I'm trolling you and Pokey) my reasons, and oh yeah, you haven't actually proven me a liar. You just say I am, without even telling what I'm allegedly lying about. And you ever stopped and thought, "Well, maybe he's not lying, maybe we just have a difference of opinion, or I'm misunderstanding what he's saying?" Well, have you? You claim I lied because obviously you think I'm wrong. But you only lie if you intently mislead people. And ya know, you ever think, maybe YOU'RE the one who's wrong? Although the very fact that you gave a strawman about Wonder Woman effectively using Mjolnir, and ignored it when called-out, leads me to think if anybody's lying, it's you Erik.
@TERMINATOR1000 said:
@Delta1938: How did superman get caught up in an illusion? im confused.
They retconned it so it turns-out for years Maxwell Lord was subtly uh I guess "corrupting"(for lack of a better word) Superman telepathically to gain a foothold in his mind. Maxwell Lord had forced Superman to watch an illusion that Doomsday killed Lois by literally ripping her apart, then made him think it was Wonder Woman who was Doomsday. He had previously made Superman attack(and nearly kill) Batman by making Superman think Bats was his enemy Ruin.
@a88378438 said:
@Delta1938: the sa superman start in the superman 053
and you scan just superrman 058,not GA superman,but you say this GA superman
so,who are wrong?
Considering the Golden Age ended in the mid-50's and my scan's from the 40's, you're the one who's wrong.
@TERMINATOR1000 said:
This Delta1938 keeps saying superman was in an illusion of his mind that he thought he was fighting doomsday and even if that was true thats no excuse... if someone has beaten you before and they fight you again do you just sit there and let them beat the hell out of you? though superman knows doomsday far superior than he is i dont think he would just let doomsday beat him down that easy. you'd think superman would of given it everything hes got... so i'd like to know as well where this illusion thing came from.
(FACEPALM) The reason it matters is because Wonder Woman gained an advantage through tactics Superman would NOT have expected from Doomsday. And to top it off, he was fighting idiotically too. If Superman were fighting Doomsday in space(where Doomsday can barely move around) near the Sun, the smart thing to do would be to throw Doomsday into the Sun restricting Doomsday's mobility further and putting Superman in an environment where he's more powerful. In stead, he punched Wonder Woman back to Earth where Doomsday(if he really had been fighting Doomsday) can potentially kill more people.
In other fights they've had, Superman's beaten her and made her look inferior when HE WASN'T EVEN TRYING. He was CASUAL in two of his fights with her and she still looked inferior. That's why earlier I said Wonder Woman is Forrest Griffin to Superman's Anderson Silva.
Not the full fight, but enough to see what I'm talking about. Silva doesn't even respect Forrest's striking, he's not even keeping his hands up to defend. I'd include a video of Forrest being asked about that to further demonstrate how outclassed he was, but it'd violate the rules with the swearing. Oh yes, and this was Forrest's first fight after losing the Light-Heavyweight title, so it's not like he was some nobody low-ranked fight. By the way, Anderson Silva gets criticized because he's ruling a division people think has no competition. But considering how stacked the LHW divison is, and how Silva treated Griffin, maybe it's just Silva's so good he makes his competition look weak by comparison? Much like Superman has done to Wonder Woman more than once.
@Delta1938: Ok if you say so... How would throwing doomsday in the sun have any effect? Superman and wonder woman can resist the sun... Doomsday would probably just take a bath in it or drink it for hot coffee... why make up excuses that if superman threw doomsday into the sun then superman would have more power blah blah blah lol im done here im leaving this thread once in for all, but i liked your details though. i will say... you love superman and you stay true to him and i can respect that.
You're conceeding that you can't argue with me. You claim that you won't argue with a liar, troll or fanboy and say I'm all three. Yet, trolls don't back their claims, a troll wouldn't take the time to explain to someone else(since you think I'm trolling you and Pokey) my reasons, and oh yeah, you haven't actually proven me a liar. You just say I am, without even telling what I'm allegedly lying about. And you ever stopped and thought, "Well, maybe he's not lying, maybe we just have a difference of opinion, or I'm misunderstanding what he's saying?" Well, have you? You claim I lied because obviously you think I'm wrong. But you only lie if you intently mislead people. And ya know, you ever think, maybe YOU'RE the one who's wrong? Although the very fact that you gave a strawman about Wonder Woman effectively using Mjolnir, and ignored it when called-out, leads me to think if anybody's lying, it's you Erik.
You are making up lies because you are incapable of having a logical and reasonable discussion. I never said I cannot argue with you. I am choosing not to though based on previously pointed out lies for your part. It makes me sad that the best argument for Superman that can be had here is one filled with lies. Does Superman have it that bad in this thread that you need to lie to win?
@Delta1938: Ok if you say so... How would throwing doomsday in the sun have any effect? Superman and wonder woman can resist the sun... Doomsday would probably just take a bath in it or drink it for hot coffee... why make up excuses that if superman threw doomsday into the sun then superman would have more power blah blah blah lol im done here im leaving this thread once in for all, but i liked your details though. i will say... you love superman and you stay true to him and i can respect that.
I never said Doomsday would be hurt in the Sun. But Doomsday is at a mobility disadvantage in space, since he can't fly. Superman throws him into the Sun, the gravity and pressure would further handicap his ability to fight back, and he'd basically be trapped unless he evolved a way to escape. That's not even considering that Superman would be powered-up in the Sun.
And I don't see anything proving Wonder Woman could survive in the Sun.
@Erik: Well this is something i really don't know, but was Superman really under an illusion?
Superman was made to think Wonder Woman was an intelligent Doomsday that had murdered Lois right in front of him. It does not change much though. If anything, it makes Wonder Woman's fight with him that much more impressive.
@Erik: Well this is something i really don't know, but was Superman really under an illusion?
Superman was made to think Wonder Woman was an intelligent Doomsday that had murdered Lois right in front of him. It does not change much though. If anything, it makes Wonder Woman's fight with him that much more impressive.
true and your side of the stories different from his so its like they say " Theirs always 2 sides to a story " however, since theirs more witnesses that are calling him a liar i'll go with this even though i hardley know.
You're conceeding that you can't argue with me. You claim that you won't argue with a liar, troll or fanboy and say I'm all three. Yet, trolls don't back their claims, a troll wouldn't take the time to explain to someone else(since you think I'm trolling you and Pokey) my reasons, and oh yeah, you haven't actually proven me a liar. You just say I am, without even telling what I'm allegedly lying about. And you ever stopped and thought, "Well, maybe he's not lying, maybe we just have a difference of opinion, or I'm misunderstanding what he's saying?" Well, have you? You claim I lied because obviously you think I'm wrong. But you only lie if you intently mislead people. And ya know, you ever think, maybe YOU'RE the one who's wrong? Although the very fact that you gave a strawman about Wonder Woman effectively using Mjolnir, and ignored it when called-out, leads me to think if anybody's lying, it's you Erik.
You are making up lies because you are incapable of having a logical and reasonable discussion. I never said I cannot argue with you. I am choosing not to though based on previously pointed out lies for your part. It makes me sad that the best argument for Superman that can be had here is one filled with lies. Does Superman have it that bad in this thread that you need to lie to win?
Prove I'm lying. You're throwing out accusations of me being a liar without even stating where I lied. That's basically slander. So far I'm just seeing a whiner who's trying to discredit me.@Erik said:
@TERMINATOR1000 said:
@Erik: Well this is something i really don't know, but was Superman really under an illusion?
Superman was made to think Wonder Woman was an intelligent Doomsday that had murdered Lois right in front of him. It does not change much though. If anything, it makes Wonder Woman's fight with him that much more impressive.
Oh so you're going to ignore how Superman was handicapped because HE DIDN'T KNOW WONDER WOMAN WAS HIS REAL OPPONENT AND DIDN'T EXPECT THINGS LIKE BEING SNUCK-UP ON. And he was made to think Doomsday was more intelligent? hm The part of saying "an animal that needs to be put down" sure doesn't appear that way. But then, you're the one who makes accusations of lying after giving deceitful analogies and then covering himself by saying, "I don't argue with liars."
Prove I'm lying. You're throwing out accusations of me being a liar without even stating where I lied. That's basically slander. So far I'm just seeing a whiner who's trying to discredit me.
Oh so you're going to ignore how Superman was handicapped because HE DIDN'T KNOW WONDER WOMAN WAS HIS REAL OPPONENT AND DIDN'T EXPECT THINGS LIKE BEING SNUCK-UP ON. And he was made to think Doomsday was more intelligent? hm The part of saying "an animal that needs to be put down" sure doesn't appear that way. But then, you're the one who makes accusations of lying after giving deceitful analogies and then covering himself by saying, "I don't argue with liars."
Funnily enough, I did prove it a while ago when I quoted you and said you were lying. If your memory is that short, I recommend you go back and find it yourself.
He thought his opponent was an intelligent Doomsday. Not that sneaking up on someone is limited only to intelligent fighters... though it might be beyond you.
Here is an example of your lies. You are using half of a quote to serve your argument. He said, "You are smarter but you are still an animal that needs to be put down".
I love how you insist on making a fool of yourself. Really.
@Delta1938: It's like i told Erik, I havent read the full detail for myself and theirs to many people here that are sayign you're lying and if theirs more witnesses than just erik than it could be true...
No im not ignoring the fact superman was handicapped, i think im just gonna ignore you and this thread for the last time again. mkay?
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