Superman vs Thor

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JinSlayerX

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#151  Edited By JinSlayerX

Superman stomps Thor

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GypRosetti

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#152  Edited By GypRosetti

@0n1zuka: Superman is as vulnerable to magic as a human so unless sun dipping takes away this weakness one hit from Molnir puts him down. Superman v Thor is bad style match-up.

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Vaeternus

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#153  Edited By Vaeternus

@Qpzmg said:

Superman all rounds.

@JinSlayerX said:

Superman stomps Thor

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0n1zuka

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#154  Edited By 0n1zuka

@GypRosetti: It's not any worse of a style match-up than Superman's battles vs. Captain Marvel, IMO. Billy has used Clark's vulnerability against him before, but Thor won't have that knowledge outside of the prep round.

I would assume that there have been several foes with a similar vulnerability to magic like Clark, that have survived more than one blow from Mjolnir.

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Strman123

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#155  Edited By Strman123

@0n1zuka said:

@GypRosetti: It's not any worse of a style match-up than Superman's battles vs. Captain Marvel, IMO. Billy has used Clark's vulnerability against him before, but Thor won't have that knowledge outside of the prep round.

I would assume that there have been several foes with a similar vulnerability to magic like Clark, that have survived more than one blow from Mjolnir.

If Thor was in a bad spot and then "smites" Superman with thunder and sees that it hurts him he probably would notice that Superman is vulnerable or at least weak to magic and would continue with those sort of attacks. Other than than Superman would win the first round. Thor wins the other 2.

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GypRosetti

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#156  Edited By GypRosetti

@0n1zuka: Mjolnir is magic so Thor doesn't have to use any of it's vast abilities, he only has to tag Superman with it. If the writers are consistent Superman should always lose to Captain Marvel and Black Adam but of course we see PIS in comics all the time. Thor v Captain Marvel or Black Adam would be a much better fight!

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Esquire

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#157  Edited By Esquire

@GypRosetti said:

@0n1zuka: Mjolnir is magic so Thor doesn't have to use any of it's vast abilities, he only has to tag Superman with it. If the writers are consistent Superman should always lose to Captain Marvel and Black Adam but of course we see PIS in comics all the time. Thor v Captain Marvel or Black Adam would be a much better fight!

Captain Marvel doesn't have the ability to amp his punches with magic, and Black Adam has only done it a couple of times over the course of his decades of appearances. They both strike with pure physical force. It's not PIS when Superman beats them.

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0n1zuka

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#158  Edited By 0n1zuka

@Esquire: Actually Cap has used magic punches against Superman.

Captain Marvel - Superman

@Strman123: @GypRosetti: Honestly, since this debate has been done to death, I'm just going to link you to a thread which will possibly respond to your posts.

Bizarro/Superman vs. Thor/BRB

Ignore that first scan since it's from a non-canon story, but the rest of the scans should help. Also, check out CitizenBane's posts about Superman's magic vulnerability.

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Esquire

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#159  Edited By Esquire

@0n1zuka said:

@Esquire: Actually Cap has used magic punches against Superman.

Yes, but that was writer error. Black Adam has the ability to do so because his powers come from a different source, but Billy is actually not capable of it. Combined with the fact that Superman was faking when Billy seems to KO him in that battle, it doesn't mean much.

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Strman123

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#160  Edited By Strman123

@0n1zuka: Most of his points where put down by Thor fans.

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JJ62

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#161  Edited By JJ62

I think it's Superman, now I think Thor IS capable of beating Superman but how often would it happen is the real question. Superman is in fact stronger than Thor physically, I think Superman would win 7/10 times due to the fact that physically he is superior to Thor. I mean we've seen Hulk overpower Thor physically so why not Superman?

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Hoenhime

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#162  Edited By Hoenhime

@JJ62: Oh I am pretty sure that if there was a hulk and superman crossover then the hulk would win, because hulk has so many fans/fanboys now that he will most likely be able to defeat the TOAA if he is angry enough. If the JLA/Avengers crossover had a Superman vs hulk then superman would most likely get smashed. Anything to please majority fans.

But yeah superman would beat current Thor, even wolverine gives him trouble now because he is 'faster' than thor.

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#163  Edited By JJ62

@hoenhime Don't get me wrong, I do love the Hulk. But by no means do I think he's unbeatable or can beat anyone if he gets angry enough. I think Hulk vs Superman would be an awesome fight to watch as long as there's no writers trying to please majority fans. I think Hulk vs Superman would probably end in a stalemate 9/10 times just like Hulk vs Sentry. I do think Hulk can pull it off, but I think Superman could too. Idk it'd be really fun to watch as long as there's no PIS.

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theONEtaichou

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#164  Edited By theONEtaichou

@Postacrat said:

@CitizenBane said:

@throughmyeyez said:

Thor,

In Ragnarok, caused an entire crater and created a sunami with a single blow. Able to hurt Thanos physically, even when he had the IG, Thor escaped from a black hole, can travel faster than light, has hurt galactus, can teleport with his hammer, lifted asgard, transformed into RKT and has complete control over time, and surpassed his father, whom was a galaxy buster, and the ones who sit in darkness, which are celestials.

Need i go on with thor feats?

Thor >> Superman

You do realize most of these are either unimpressive or out of context or just plain false, right? Thor has only ever hurt weaker versions of Thanos. He's never (to my knowledge) hurt Thanos with the IG, and there are Thanosi who have no-sold all his attacks. Superman can escape a black hole and travel faster than light as well. Thor has also only been able to hurt weakened versions of Galactus. Most recently, in The Mighty Thor Annual, Thor godblasted Galactus while channeling extra energy from the Silver Surfer and Rachel Geist. Galan wasn't even scratched. How is teleporting relevant, given that it is something Thor rarely (even for him) ever does? Why would Thor lifting a city (especially since he had the Odin Force and Beta Ray Bill's help while doing it) put him beyond Superman? Why does Rune King Thor enter the picture here (and side note: why do Thor fans always bring up irrelevant versions of Thor into a discussion? Seriously.) Thor lost his control over time in Avengers Forever #8 and he's never recovered it since. The feats of RKT are irrelevant to this discussion.

Superman is at least a bit stronger (and here I'm primarily going off Superman's strength being measured against quantifiable celestial bodies in contrast to Thor's strength primarily being measured against mythical serpents and magical trees and all sorts of nonsense that leads to a great deal of ambiguity) and vastly faster. But please, do go on with Thor feats.

Bane I solute you! If you pick up a superman book every month you see Superman committing the same feats of strength, speed, durability, versatility, and intelligence on a regular basis. You don't have to go back and find decade old scan's of mythological feats that rarely happen if at all and are entirely too difficult to Quantify. You don't have to bring up an alternate version of Superman, or bring up instances when Superman had a temporary power boost for him to win. Just go pick up a book and I guarantee Superman will show you 85% of the time that he's a power house, while in comics it's hard to tell exactly what it is Thor can do without that hammer saving his a** all the time. I have yet to see somebody use feats other than that Midgard Serpant or that tree of Yaddi, but the truth is those scan's are old, what has Thor done recently that put's him on Superman's level?

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Hoenhime

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#165  Edited By Hoenhime

@JJ62: I wasn't talking about you I was just saying how marvel has represented hulk to please their fans. And I agree, superman vs Hulk would be a good fight as long as there is no PIS to please people.

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Om4zd

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#166  Edited By Om4zd

@Hoenhime: It would be a good fight in one page... Where Superman rips Hulk's head off by his ear lobe.

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Hoenhime

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#167  Edited By Hoenhime

@Om4zd: hulk has survived a fight against the void, fought and has defeated Thor, has fought with hercules, Sentry and several other olympians, and I think he even fought SS. In all these fights he has shown that he is durable enough to fight against superman. But this is a Thor vs superman and not hulk vs superman and I dont want it to become one.

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Om4zd

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#168  Edited By Om4zd

@Hoenhime: Okay.

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GypRosetti

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#169  Edited By GypRosetti

@0n1zuka: Here you go magic & lightning tanking Superman

Superman v Magic 001
Superman v Magic 001
Superman v Magic 002
Superman v Magic 002
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 001
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 001
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 002
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 002
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 003
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 003
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 004
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 004
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 005
Ocean Master Tanks JLA 005
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GypRosetti

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#170  Edited By GypRosetti

@Om4zd: And then Hulk regenerates and beats Superman into a bloody pulp.

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Om4zd

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#171  Edited By Om4zd

@GypRosetti: Sure.

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oppagangnamstyle19

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Thor only wins ONLY because of his magic. Otherwise in a wrestling/mma match without any powers,but strength: Superman curbstomps.

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New_World_Order

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#173  Edited By New_World_Order

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

(1) Superman (2) Thor (3) Superman
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#174  Edited By GypRosetti

@oppagangnamstyle19: Without any powers Thor is taller, heavier and a trained warrior.

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oppagangnamstyle19

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@GypRosetti: Well yeah. if Thor and Superman did not have any powers whatsoever and were normal humans, Thor would win because of his height and warrior skills. But if they have their strength powers, Superman wins in a wrestling/ mma match. Thor can lift over 500 tons, while Superman lifts over 200 quintillion tons. That is a huge difference there.

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GypRosetti

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#176  Edited By GypRosetti

@oppagangnamstyle19: Actually Thor has moved the weight of 9 realms (planets).

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oppagangnamstyle19

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@GypRosetti: please post scans

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boostergold321

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#178  Edited By boostergold321

Marvel's handbooks don't do a good job in defining power-levels like it's a weight lifting competition.

By what's shown in the comics, the weights that the big powerhouses could press would need to be expressed with scientific notation..... Meaning that the of weight they can press is UNEARTHLY. Powerhouses like this don't often run into everyday objects they have trouble lifting Instead they shatter planets with a punch, overcome the power of the sun, planet splitting impacts, spacial singularities, rifts in space-time,etc.

THE MEANING "100 CLASS" category: The "100 class" is for those who can lift that weight or above.

Its a horrible way to classify ALL power-levels and Marvel barely explains their own class system so that we can understand it in the first place. When classifying characters power-levels, if you have to do it in more that one sentence then you aren't doing it right. The reader will probably be confused or won't understand right away with no problem at all.

Every other piece of information tells you to throw the stupid "100 class" classification out the window and forget about it. Readers, do yourself a favor, ignore the stupid "100 class" thing, okay?

We've seen Thor and others doing things far better than 100 tons or whatever. A train engine can carry hundreds and thousands of tons. You believe Thor is not more powerful than big man-made locomotive? or that he's no powerful than a mob of 100 people? That's just ridiculous.

In universe of comicbooks you can:

A. lift average amount of weigth

B. lift like a top Olympic-level athlete

C. Have the strength of a mob of men

D. Be as powerful as a locomotive(lifts hundreds to thousand of tons)

D. Have the power of a nuclear power-plant.

E. Are more powerful than a star, and can destroy a planet with your bare hands.

F. Can devastate galaxies.

G. Can devastate large dimensions , y'know, the big portions of the universe so large they make a galaxy look like a grain of sand.

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GypRosetti

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#179  Edited By GypRosetti

@oppagangnamstyle19: Without Mjolnir Superman would win. Thor is a bad match-up for him because of it.

The Yggdrasil he refers to is this tree. One of the 9 realms is Earth :

Yggdrasil
Yggdrasil
Thor Moves 9 Realms 001
Thor Moves 9 Realms 001
Thor Moves 9 Realms 002
Thor Moves 9 Realms 002

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Saren

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#180  Edited By Saren

Ocean Master's lightning isn't even magic, Marvel's lightning didn't knock out Superman while he was possessed by Eclipso, and Marvel sneaked up on Superman and sucker-punched him twice to knock him out in Crisis Times Five. Also, Thor never moved nine planets. Seriously....

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GypRosetti

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#181  Edited By GypRosetti

@CitizenBane: He pushed the World Engine against the weight of Yggdrasil which is the World tree and connected to 9 realms. So if he isn't moving the tree what is he moving, a branch? Read the last three panels, Thor says :

"I force it to an end"
"In Asgard Odin notes liver spots on the back of his hand."
"and Sif is sure the CRACK in the throne room ceiling wasn't there before"

He's referencing Asgard so he's not IN Asgard. He caused liver spots and the crack in the ceiling by moving the realms.

Crossovers don't mean anything. Ocean Master's lightning shows how weak DCnU Superman is - which is good because he was way overpowered. He still have the lifting Earth's weight feat but Thor moving 9 realms trumps it and here is surviving being crushed by the weight of 20 planets (a score = 20).

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spiderbuck1

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#182  Edited By spiderbuck1

@GypRosetti said:

Superman v Magic 001
Superman v Magic 001
Superman v Magic 002
Superman v Magic 002

@0n1zuka: Here you go magic & lightning tanking Superman

1- Superman bc he's sundipped

2 - Thor due to magic and versatility (see above)

3 - Thor goes all Warrior Madness and goes off for the win

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Saren

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#183  Edited By Saren

@GypRosetti said:

@CitizenBane: He's pushed the World Engine against the weight of Yggdrasil which is the World tree and connected to 9 realms. So if he isn't moving the tree what is he moving, a branch? Read the last three panels, Thor says :

"I force it to an end"
"In Asgard Odin notes liver spots on the back of his hand."
" and Sif is sure the CRACK in the throne room ceiling wasn't there before"

He's referencing Asgard so he's not IN Asgard. He caused liver spots and the crack in the ceiling by moving the realms.

Crossovers don't mean anything. Ocean Master's lightning shows how weak DCnU Superman is - which is good because he was way overpowered. He still have the lifting Earth's weight feat but Thor moving 9 realms trumps it.

I'm aware he wasn't in Asgard. He was in a tunnel below Manhattan, and the Tree was connected to an engine that existed to facilitate a degree of movement.

Thor is moving the control wheel of a machine connected to the World Tree ---- a machine that's doing the actual work of making the World Tree budge. He's only providing an initial impetus to a mechanized force. I can push down the lever of a machine connected to a 5 ton boulder, and in doing so, the machine has lifted the boulder with the force that I've granted it. Am I now a 5 tonner? Same principle. The amount of strength required to push the World Tree isn't quite the same as the amount of strength required to push the gears of an elaborate machine designed to move anyway ---- that is what wheels do. Fighting the weight of a tree and fighting "the intent" of a tree are.......not really the same thing......

Crossovers don't mean anything.

......what? What part of what I said had anything to do with crossovers? What exactly are you talking about?

Ocean Master's lightning shows how weak DCnU Superman is - which is good because he was way overpowered.

......sooooo, Superman's way overpowered except when he's not? Totally makes sense, brah. DCnU Ocean Master doesn't have any prior feats. If his lightning is powerful enough to knock out Superman, that's just how it is until evidence to the contrary emerges. Claiming a new character's display of power against established heroes shows how weak the established hero is rather than the actual intention --- the new character's power ---- is a pretty silly thing to do. It's like if I claimed Thor can't take a punch from Superman because this new character, Taurus, humiliated him in a matter of seconds.

No Caption Provided

So is Thor a weakling or is he being used to show how powerful Taurus is? Same principle.

He still have the lifting Earth's weight feat but Thor moving 9 realms trumps it

Not even remotely. Pound for pound, I'd say Thor is physically below Superman and Hulk in terms of strength --- the hammer allows him to make up for that. And as I've pointed out before, when given the opportunity to replicate the "feat" with just Asgard, an amped Thor needed Beta Ray Bill's help to pull it off.

here is surviving being crushed by the weight of 20 planets (a score = 20).

There's this teeny little concept called hyperbole. Acquaint yourself with it.

Honestly, your posts read more like the whining rants of a petulant fanboy than anything with reason behind them. I realize you're not particularly fond of DC (hard not to notice, really), but most people at least try to keep their bias under wraps and hidden away. You just unzip and let it fly in the wind. It's quite childish.

But business as usual on the Thor threads.

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Saren

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#184  Edited By Saren

Honestly, some people.....

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Little amazing how Superman did not, in fact, get murdered instantly by the magic. Non?

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CalebHara

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#185  Edited By CalebHara

1. Superman

2. Thor

3. Superman

Thor wins number 2 via the Odin Force. Superman rips him limb-from-limb in the first and third rounds, however, because he is 288 times as powerful.

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Saren

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#186  Edited By Saren

@CalebHara said:

because he is 288 times as powerful.

I get the logic behind why people produce these numbers --- but it assumes a constant rate of absorption and a limitless capacity on Superman's part to absorb yellow sunlight.

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CalebHara

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#187  Edited By CalebHara

@CitizenBane said:

@CalebHara said:

because he is 288 times as powerful.

I get the logic behind why people produce these numbers --- but it assumes a constant rate of absorption and a limitless capacity on Superman's part to absorb yellow sunlight.

I stated these numbers because that is how his power increases during a sundip, we have never seen anything else to say other wise.

But i see what you're saying. I just don't see why the absorption rate wouldn't be constant. Also, from what little we have seen of Superman Prime One Million, i think it is safe to say that his absorption capacity exceeds 288 times his standard power :)

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The_Lunact_And_Manic

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Batman

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TDK_1997

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#189  Edited By TDK_1997

Superman should win in all three rounds.

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Malevolent1

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#190  Edited By Malevolent1

@TheVoiceOfReason said:

1.Superman

2.Superman

3.Superman

^^^^^^^^

This. Superman is just too fast for Thor. Don't get me wrong, contrary to the status quo, Thor has demonstrated superhuman speed and reflexes that have been demonstrated several times and don't simply disappear because writers at Marvel are too stupid or other wise ignorant of that fact.

Having said all that...Superman moves at near light speeds and decks Thor before he has a chance to react.

Game over.

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GypRosetti

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#191  Edited By GypRosetti

@CitizenBane: And Superman was strapped into a machine that simulated the weight of the Earth, he wasn't actually standing underneath it was he? We have no idea how much of the work the World Machine was doing nor is it implied, all that's implied if that Thor is using it to push against the weight of the tree. As for Ocean Master it's lightning which doesn't turn Batman into dust so obviously it's not lightning so powerful it can level a planet. DC I don't have a problem with fanboys with a hard-on for speed on the other hand I do. Ocean Master is NOT a new character he was created in the 1960s and is Aquaman's half brother.

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GypRosetti

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#192  Edited By GypRosetti

@CitizenBane: Yes it's called PIS.

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Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

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Superman using a machine capable of determining he can bench press the weight of the earth. Yeah I wonder why Superman comics struggle so often. Smh at DC writers.

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Dredeuced

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#194  Edited By Dredeuced

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

Superman using a machine capable of determining he can bench press the weight of the earth. Yeah I wonder why Superman comics struggle so often. Smh at DC writers.

Some writers want to write Superman as absurdly powerful, some writers tone him down a bit. Happens with every hero who's popular enough to go through several writer cycles.

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Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

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@Dredeuced yeah I know. I like Supes but sometimes they make him ridiculous. My favorite runs of Supes were Johns, Byrnes and Red Son. I love All Star Superman too. But I had to drop all new 52 Superman titles. They really have not delivered when it comes to Superman. I was really let down by Grant's current run.

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Saren

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#196  Edited By Saren

@GypRosetti said:

@CitizenBane: And Superman was strapped into a machine that simulated the weight of the Earth, he wasn't actually standing underneath it was he?

That's not even remotely the same thing. Do I really have to point out to you the difference between benching a set weight and moving a machine's gears? Come on.

We have no idea how much of the work the World Machine was doing nor is it implied, all that's implied if that Thor is using it to push against the weight of the tree.

Sure, and conversely we have no idea how much work Thor was doing. The fact that there's a giant gear wheel connected to a giant engine should negate the need for implications. We can take for granted that Ellis assumes the reader has at least a modicum of intelligence.

As for Ocean Master it's lightning which doesn't turn Batman into dust so obviously it's not lightning so powerful it can level a planet.

Right! Because characters are always using the same amount of power at all times! Concepts like restraint, holding back, going easy etc are alien concepts in the world of comic books!

So I guess that means Thor's lightning has virtually no offensive power behind it because Red Skull tanked a blast from him, right? After all, he's peak human and it didn't turn him into dust.

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Seriously, think this stuff through.

DC I don't have a problem with fanboys with a hard-on for speed on the other hand I do.

Mad?

Ocean Master is NOT a new character he was created in the 1960s and is Aquaman's half brother.

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I knew you would probably say this, which is why I specifically said "DCnU Ocean Master". The one who debuted in Throne of Atlantis and has zero prior feats. I figured that would clear things up. No such luck, apparently.

@GypRosetti said:

@CitizenBane: Yes it's called PIS.

I could try and respond to this, but I fear your vast collection of irrefutable wiki entries that claim Superman will die instantly if anyone so much as says "abra kadabra" in his vicinity. Such proof is beyond my ability to counter.

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#197  Edited By GypRosetti

@CitizenBane: I believe that was a Red Skull with Professor X's brain so Thor was clearly not trying to kill him. Sure the gears mean anyone could have moved the 9 realms.

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#198  Edited By Saren

@GypRosetti said:

@CitizenBane: I believe that was a Red Skull with Professor X's brain so Thor was clearly not trying to kill him.

Professor X was long since dead, and his brain was of no use to anyone. I'm glad you get the "not trying to kill" idea though.

Sure the gears mean anyone could have moved the 9 realms.

No, it means anyone strong enough to move the gears could have moved the nine realms. Thor was strong enough to move the gears, but that's a far cry from being strong enough to move the nine realms. We've seen an amped Thor need help from BRB to lift one realm without the aid of a machine, for god's sake.

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#199  Edited By GypRosetti

@Malevolent1: Superman would have to one shot Thor before he could use Mjolnir. I haven't found any scans showing Superman has planet busting power with a speed blitz. If this can take the speed blitz so can Thor :

Superman Speed Blitz
Superman Speed Blitz
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