Superman vs silver surfer: INSIDE THE SUN

@theonewhoknows:

lol

And if you read my comment afterward, I already addressed that. Only one having trouble reading here is you. You're also being overly abrasive for no apparent reason. He didn't phase his arm through Cyborg Superman, he punched through him then vibrated his arm to shatter his body:

That's NOT phasing......................

@theonewhoknows: ok first for the stupid statement you made in post 39,, all you said was surfer would have to know that red sun effects him well its already been explained to you many times that surfer has cosmic awareness and will know everything about superman's weaknesses. ..Its his power... then in that same post you made up a way which isn't even in this battle....

Next I never said the speed thing was going to help surfer... all I said is clark doesn't have an advantage. ... next your stupid vibrating offensively comment... how in the heck does that help superman? Surfer can go intangible. ... surfer can create any radiation and he draws power form any energy so clark himself would be added power to surfer as he could drain all his radiation too... you really need to quit being all aggressive and actually read the arguments. ...you don't debunk anything and make up a bunch of crap that isn't even in the fight ...

@newecho: @m_man: @trickyman86: Ha Ha---Trickyman86 my friend, BELIEVE me when I say I'm not anywhere NEAR about to suffer such a thing---I'm having fun! In fact, I am simutaneously debating on a political site with some REAL psychos---THIS debate is pure amusement.

Mman, I ACKNOWLEDGED at the end of my post that you discussed that feat---CLEARLY you didn't read to the end of the post and thus displayed reading comprehension difficulties ONCE AGAIN. And as I said, even if you dismiss or wish away that incident, you STILL can't prove that Supes CAN'T use the tactic. The reason of "I don't like it" doesn't count.

Newecho, um---you are EPITOMIZING "reading comprehension difficulties". I think you need to re read the post I mentined STAT, because it DOESN'T just contain my saying "Norrin would have to KNOW that a red sun would affect Superman". Re read it again--carefully---then I'll respond to you, because your last post indicates that maybe that post went over your head.

@theonewhoknows: I read and I didn't respond about the rest as it dealt with speed and you saying surfer didn't have the combat speed which has already been debunked...clark isn't faster in combat or in travel speed... again you have no idea what surfer can do.. he could change the radiation that is inside the sun that they are fighting in to red sun radiation.. is it an instant ko? No but he won't last long.... you can't bring in things to add to the fight either as you keep doing...

Silver Surfer

@theonewhoknows: I'm not going to go into an emotional rant. I'll just summarize my points:

The OP says it's superman, silver surfer and a sun. Period. So for this thread there is no source wall. No Phantom Zone Projector. Those are NOT ways Superman can win THIS battle.

Also the incident with Cyborg Superman is NOT phasing or vibrating through a person. We go by feats. Not speculation. And since you stated he could do it, it is up to you to prove he can. Until it is proven that is not a way Superman can win this battle.

@theonewhoknows:

First off, you need to calm down buddy lol Secondly, he's never phased his arm offensively period. And once again you can't prove I can't fly when no one's looking. Asking for someone to prove a negative is a logical fallacy.

blue sun might be too much to handle for surfer but the continued oversaturation of power might affect supes in a negative way. it would be too much power that he wouldn't be use too.... while SS deals powers like that on a consistent basis

Like I said though, the star will also amp Silver Surfer too.

@m_man: @newecho: @trickyman86: @pooty: Once again, Pooty, I'll bring up the Phantom Zone, the Source Wall, and anything ELSE I want to, "period". There is NOTHING you can do to stop me from doing so, "period". Even if you whine about it for the next 1,000 pages, I will still bring it up if I want to, "period". So you might as well get over it---"PERIOD".

There is no "speculation" as to whether Kal can phase offensively; he can. You can say "nuh uh" to me for the next 1,000 pages if you wish, and it WON'T change that he can, so you might as well get over that, too. We agree that Supes can beat Surfer, so as I said before---stop trying to FORCE an argument when none need exist.

newecho, first, it's getting too exhausting to decipher your posts, so unless you start to communicate better, I'm not going to bother, sorry. Secondly, from what I could make out, you are still going on about a red sun. Despite me giving SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of Kal resisting the effects of MASSIVE exposure to red sun radiation for EXTENDED periods of time, you're STILL going on about it, as if that is some sort of cinch win for Surfer?? I ALSO mention in the post that Supes could vibrate to intangible state making that moot, anyway. Are you so enamored with the Surfer that you are INTENTIONALLY IGNORING that a red sun is NOT an instant, cinch win for him. C'mon, son--get it together!

Trickyman86 check out posts 39, 47, and 132, then get back to me.

Mman, I am perfectly calm---YOU need to calm down enough to accept that your beloved Norrin does not have the easy path to victory that you thought. And we can play the "uh huh"! "Nuh uh" game indefinitely if you like; Supes CAN use his power in the way I say, and you have no proof he can't (endless sessions of petulant "nuh uh"! games don't count).

IDK this is a tough one SS with absorbing the power of the Sun is capable of go toe to toe with Galactus but at his normal base Superman is capable of take nuclear blasts, super novas to the face and planet lv attacks, with 15 min Superman is capable of moving a planet like nothing, I think that after a tough battle SS would win due to his increase of power. Unless Silver Sulfer decide to destroy or fully absorb the sun then Superman would get depleted during the fight giving SS the advantage he needs.

Superman depending of SS's decisions during the battle.

@theonewhoknows:

newecho, first, it's getting too exhausting to decipher your posts, so unless you start to communicate better, I'm not going to bother, sorry. Secondly, from what I could make out, you are still going on about a red sun. Despite me giving SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of Kal resisting the effects of MASSIVE exposure to red sun radiation for EXTENDED periods of time, you're STILL going on about it, as if that is some sort of cinch win for Surfer?? I ALSO mention in the post that Supes could vibrate to intangible state making that moot, anyway. Are you so enamored with the Surfer that you are INTENTIONALLY IGNORING that a red sun is NOT an instant, cinch win for him. C'mon, son--get it together!

You giving examples of him resisting means nothing as it still affects him and he has no way to counter that... In no way have I said its in instant win and in fact I have said that its not an instant win. The red sun radiation will take its toll and eventually it will take him out..

Vibrating his molecules will not help superman as I have already addressed this. Surfer can go intangible, so unless you are only talking about him getting away from the affects of the red sun radiation, he has nothing offensively that he can do to surfer while both are intangible....

Bringing up the phantom zone and things like that is not even worth mentioning as it doesn't have anything to do with this battle... Surfer can also banish clark to the astral plane and doesn't need an object to do it...You are also not addressing the fact that surfer can literally drain clark of all his radiation and he would be powerless...

Edit: Btw surfer has molecular manipulation, so if clark vibrates to get away from the red sun radiation or from being drained then surfer can just control his molecules while he is in his intangible state....

@newecho: Your devotion to seeing your beloved Norrin beat Superman is so true, it has gone from to mildly annoying to sweetly touching---to MAD FUNNY! First and formost you assume Surfer would get the CHANCE to use the red sun gambit (what, do you think Kal is just going to float there patiently and LET Radd do that, especially if Kal is in a morals off state? Think, man---THINK)! Most likely, the Surfer will be too busy dealing with rapid FTL blows in his face and unable to concentrate enough to do that. Secondly, as I have said, even if he DID manage to begin the red sun/draining process, Supes has withstood the effects of that for LONG periods of time---he is NOT going to just INSTANTLY DROP (I know that's how you FANTASIZE it would go, but it wouldn't, sorry about that). To give you YET ANOTHER example of this, despite absorbing MASSIVE amounts of red sun radiation for an EXTENDED amount of time, Supes STILL survived the explosion of an entropy bomb WHILE IN THE MIDDLE OF A SUN EATER (the explosion was described as fifty times as big as Kepler's Supernova) in Action Comics 847. Get it now, my haplessly persistent friend??? Supes is NOT going to INSTANTLY DROP, even if Surfer DID turn the sun red. Which means that Supes would have plenty of time to rapidly strike him (dropping his concentration and stopping the process) or turn intangible (making the affect of the sun moot). And if Surfer turns intangible too, SO WHAT? As I have stated NUMEROUS TIMES, then it's a stalemate, and no advantage for the Surfer, so Radd STILL doesn't win (D'oh)!

If they fight in (or anywhere NEAR) the DC universe, Supes CAN and most likely WILL use the Phantom Zone or the Source Wall-as he has on other opponents-because he often uses STRATEGY, and not JUST brawlling to win. Just because you don't LIKE those tactics doesn't mean he won't employ them, so get over it.

And finally, I dealt with the Surfer trying to use molecular manipulation in post 132. Read it and weep.

Look son---it's clear you "like" Surfer---and that's nice. SWEET, even. And I have even acknowledged that Surfer COULD win, many times. But due to the evidence I've presented, YOU'RE going to have to admit the same about Superman. It doesn't matter that you don't LIKE that---it's the TRUTH.

@theonewhoknows: First you aren't that much older than me as we have already discussed this when I agreed with you on another topic months ago..... Second I don't like surfer better that is you assuming because I am backing someone other than the one that you are..... Next you aren't addressing anything as you have no idea how surfer's powers work.... They are starting the fight inside the sun,, surfer having cosmic awareness will already know every weakness supes has in less than a nanosecond... He will then either a) turn the sun into a big ball of kyrptonite which he could do...b) drain the sun of its radiation adding to his already immense power and hurting supes in the process c) send him to the astral plane and kill him there ... and again no one has said that red sun radiation is an INSTANT WIN...But surfer will win

All that speed you talk about does not matter to surfer while he is draining all the radiation as he can to that while in an intangible state....The phantom zone and source wall are not a part of this battle,,, he does not have prep for the fight and would not have a projector on him...so quit bringing that up as it has nothing to do with this battle....

@newecho: Yep, you're doing what GhostRider 2 initially did (but to his credit, STOPPED doing)---WILLFULLY IGNORING what you don't like to give Surfer a win. Anything Surfer can do will not INSTANTLY drop Kal, even turning things into Kryptonite. Kryptonite doesn't INSTANTLY drop Kal; it slowly reduces him from 100%, then 70%, and so on, until human level, THEN it kills him. By the time that happened, he would have gone into intangible state, nullifying the effects of the kryptonite. And Kal doesn't NEED "prep" to employ the phantom zone or the Source Wall; since weaker beings like the Thing, the Rhino, Red Hulk, Thor, and the Hulk have stunned Radd with their blows, Superman can DEFINITELY hurt Radd long enought for the seconds it takes to stick him on the Source Wall, or the seconds it would take (after a morals off Kal vibrated to intangible state, re solidified into Radd, ripped him apart, and if he re assembled) to race to and back to the battle scene to send Surfer to the "Zone as he reformed. It doesn't matter that you don't "like" that---Supes uses strategy often, and that's how it would BE.

A blue sun doubles Superman's powers, according to death battle. SS will have to take him out of the sun or else he will be too strong for him.

Superman wins 6/10 times.

@theonewhoknows:

Again you keep saying I am giving him an instant win,,, I HAVE NEVER SAID THAT,, so quit putting words in my mouth.... Is supes going to stay intangible forever??? and what can supes do to norin while intangible especially since NORIN CAN GO INTANGIBLE ALSO,,, so either supes stays intangible and quits or he actually tries to fight... AND AGAIN SURFER HAS MOLECULAR MANIPULATION, so if clark goes intangible then surfer will be able to control him at this time and force him solid.... The source wall is something he has done what twice??? and he has no way of getting surfer there.. he has no way of reanimating surfer from his intangible state which you have never addressed...

Can clark beat surfer? yes but only if surfer fights stupidly and bringing up people hurting surfer with blows is a little out of the way considering whom have all hurt supes with punches.....The thread isn't can supes beat surfer here and there,,, its who would win... and surfer has way to many ways to beat clark that he has no answer for....

@theonewhoknows: Norrin travels back in time and blows up krypton, how about that?Surfer doesn't brawl especially with morals off.Why keep rambling about Rhino and Hulk?Surfer was fine he tried to talk to Rhino he is not interested in fighting him, Surfer was not hurt at all.After that Rhino charged and SS stopped him with one hand.Surfer stomp.

You can bring up any scenario you like. But if it doesn't pertain to this specific thread, i'll just ignore them. You can converse with other Viners about it. I'll pass though

This scan is CLEARLY not phasing. Look at the back of Cyborg Superman. You can tell that Supes punched through him. Cyborg supermans back is cracked from the punch. And Then he vibrated his arm. Hopefully this clears up the misinterpretation.

@arkomz:

the color of the sun doesn't really matter as norrin can turn it red the instant the battle starts....

@pooty: He keeps bringing up superman going intangible... Norin can go intangible too... What's your opinion on if supes goes intangible,, can norin not just force him back solid with his matter manip??

No matter how you twist it

Surfer > Superman

@pooty: @ghostrider2: @newecho: Newecho, actually YOU and OTHERS "keep bringing up" NORRIN going intangible, and I keep having to reply that Supes can too, and it would then be a stalemate. And you just went into the "reading comprehension difficulties" zone again, since I asked you to read post 132 in regards to matter manipulation; guess you either didn't or wouldn't read it. Getting upset is not going to change the things I've laid out for this battle, sorry---but glad you have admitted that Supes can win. That's my whole point in this thread, so now that you have admitted it, we're done.

Ghostrider2, I OBLITERATED everything you CLAIMED was an advantage for Supes, so your comments don't interest me that much anymore, really; maybe you can regroup in another thread and then we'll talk; we'll see.

Pooty, you can do whatever you like, post all the scans you like, and it STILL doesn't change that Supes can phase offensively (if you are ACTUALLY trying to claim that a MORALS OFF Kal wouldn't take what he did with Doomsday defensively to an OFFENSIVE level, and wouldn't move the alledged SMIDGEN more in the way he dealt with the Cyborg Superman to lethal levels, AND that Kal wouldn't use tactics that he HAS USED BEFORE, then please DON'T respond, because it's a LUDICROUS notion). This is rich---Using tactics he ALLEDGEDLY has not used before (but has the power set to do so) you try to disqualify; but him using tactics he HAS used before (some MANY times)---you STILL try to disqualify??? RIDICULOUS! Fortunately the base hypocrisy of one random poster (even one that in GENERAL I respect and agree with) does NOT alter the fact that every tactic I described CAN (and most likely WOULD) be emloyed.

@theonewhoknows: you aren't listening, SS has ways to kill Superman.

@ghostrider2: YOU aren't listening. I've stated that Radd could win, REPEATEDLY. So WHAT you are still worrying me about, I don't know. The point is that Supes can take out Surfer too, and you had no comeback when I destroyed everything that you THOUGHT was an end all, be all win for Surfer. So accept your thrashing, and go away (or don't; as I said, you really don't interest me anymore, sorry).

@theonewhoknows: lol.

@ghostrider2: I see you tagged me---but whatever you wrote I didn't view for the reasons I mentioned in my prior posts.

@theonewhoknows: ok so supes can win 1 time out a 100 and that is all you wanted?? then you really have no reason to be in these threads.... BTW supes cannot just "stay" intangible.... so no its not a stalemate in that regard.... Every tactic you have brought up has been debunked many times by many posters...

Then you can be dealt with in the manner your kind SHOULD be dealt with. Time to go to work!

You are having pronoun trouble, because judging by what you have posted, it is clear that actually, YOU are the one that doesn't read many (if any) SUPERMAN comics. Let's take your diatribes point by point:

Surfer has shown "planetary" matter manipulation? that's nice (in fact---awwww---that's SWEET; you really think you have a winner don't you? of COURSE you do). Superman has resisted matter manipulation many times, but the best example to use is when he resisted it from Blaze (a being powerful enough to challenge Neron for control of the underworld and WIN). She had complete, MAGICAL control of the very reality of her own REALM-quite a bit larger than "planetary"-and he resisted her attempts to transmute him through sheer endurance and will power. Blaze also hurled several devastating MAGICAL energy blasts at him, enacted a MAGICAL spell that encased him in stone (which he eventually shattered), and plunged him in the lava lakes of this MAGICAL dimension. Yet he withstood all this and went on to defeat her---something that had not been accomplished before, EVER, by anyone. There is another I give of him resisting not only transmutation, but MAGICAL transmutation on page two of this thread (killing two "that's a cinch defeat for Superman" myths with one stone)!

You are assuming Superman can resist while in his "intangible state"... No proof he couldn't be reanimated as surfer has done to others....

Surfer has "planetary + level energy blasts" and "he destroys planets with a wave of his hand"? KEWL! Then---you got me! Supes is TOAST! It's sooooo over---this mean Kal has NO CHANCE! Why did I ever start this, and----well, ACTUALLY:

In Superman issue 153, Superman became the first being EVER in the history of the universe to defeat an Imperiex Probe (I mentioned this in a prior post and during this battle, he tanked a blast from the construct that was capable of vaporizing a solar system. But compared to "planetary level" (snicker!) that's not all that impressive, right (rolls eyes). Not to mention-survived being at ground zero of an imploding sun eater in Adventures Of Superman issue 477; In Superman/Doomsday: Hunter/Prey, tanked a ground zero explosion of the entire PLANET of Calaton equal to "a million nuclear bombs" according to the energy being Waverider; and absorbed the energy of the Mageddon Warhead, a device AT MINUMUM capable of vaporizing half a GALAXY in JLA issue 41. According to famed writer Grant Morrison, who wrote this story arc, Mageddon is "the promordial annihilator" capable of literally destroying EVERYTHING. Yet after taking the impact of this thing, Kal suffered no harm whatsover---and actually SMILED afterwards! There's more (MUCH more), but I think these incidents prove the point.

No real since in commenting on this as both could take each others physical attacks

Supes has travelled through time as well-don't know what THAT'S suppose to prove(???) He can do the same to Surfer, when he was Norrin Radd and kill him with morals off.

Supes has no cosmic awareness and he cannot see past ,future and present, so he would not know anything about surfer. Surfer will know everything about supes with just a look.....

On prior posts I gave not just one or two, but SEVERAL instances of Kal resisting TP from POWERFUL TP'ers, yet here you are bringing that up again as if it's some kind of CINCH WIN for Surfer(D'oh)! Supes can vibrate to an intagible state as well, so if that happened it would be a stalemate so NO advantage here (and ANOTHER D'oh)!

TP has nothing to do with this battle as surfer can't do anything to clark,, but again the intangible thing is useless for clark as he can not hold that form for long and you still haven't proved that surfer could not manipulate him while supes is in that state...

Superman resisted the pull of a black hole that BY SUPRISE in space opened up directly below (inches) from his feet (and he was fighting at the time, yet he withstood it even though it was an ambush)! This was sprung on him by an advanced alien (Ht'ros) war technology in Action Comics Annual number 7. Not to mention in the double sized "JLA/JSA-Virtue/Vice" he went through a black hole, and in JLA: Created Equal, ALSO goes through a black hole (though the story is somewhat confusing--it may be an elseworlds, I'll have to double check).

Not worth mentioning as both could survive in the sun to fight...

Superman has FTL and nano second reaction and uses it all the time (UNLIKE Surfer who while he has great TRAVEL speed, there is great debate on his COMBAT speed). There are SO many examples that I don't know where to begin; I'm tired of typing so for now, since I have batted back everything else at you, I'll rest for now.

There is no great debate on surfer's combat speed as he is as fast as superman and actually the debate is more, Is surfer faster than supes

Now, if after all this you continue to say a Surfer win is a CINCH---you will have revealed yourself as nothing more than a typical blind, partisan poster (I'm not, because even though I am advocating for Superman, I have REPEATEDLY STATED that it is legit that Surfer could win). Please susprise me, and concede that a Surfer victory is not the "sure thing" you thought it is.

The point of this thread is to "pick the most likely winner". Surfer wins 99 times out of 100 while, with the one time being him just fighting stupid....

Now I have addressed everything in your number 132 post..... none of that was any way for clark to win....

Ok then then it can go wither way.

@newecho: That is your OPINION that Supes could win "1 out of a hundred"---STRICTLY YOUR OPINION. And your responses were hard to follow again---apparently when you get agitated, your ability to be coherent starts slipping. But from what I could make out, it's a bunch of you basically saying "Nuh Uh" to the SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of Supes countering everything that was CLAIMED would be a CINCH WIN for Surfer. You haven't proved that; all you've done when you take away all the superfluous words, is say "Nuh Uh" and that's not gonna cut it. YOU haven't proven that Surfer CAN do anything to re animate Supes (unless you are ACTUALLY trying to claim that Surfer's powers are somehow more "special" than a MAGICAL being so powerful she beat NERON for control of the nether realms---get out of here).

Until you can prove YOUR claims, I've lost interest. Unlike even Pooty (and even Ghostrider 2, indirectly) you don't have the intellectual honor and honesty to FULLY admit that Supes can beat Surfer (as I have admitted the reverse).

@theonewhoknows: I took everyone of your points and countered them or agreed with them.. so whatever on all your stupid redundant insults.....

The matter manipulation of supes while he is in his intangible state is a moot point as supes can not and has never stayed in that state for very long.....

@trickyman86: It IS his opinion that Supes could only win one out of 100; I happen to not agree with that (and neither does he, really, since in an earlier post he said Supes would get wins "here and there"---which is MORE than just ONE). And, as he did in prior posts when it was hard to follow him (but he slowed down, and proved he CAN be coherent when he takes his time) it WAS hard for me to follow him in his last post. But look, man---you are getting dangerously close to name calling me, and that would not be a wise thing to do (ESPECIALLY since you are doing it while getting in the middle of an A TO B conversation, which is ALWAYS uncalled for). We've been cool for quite awhile, and I would like to keep it that way. You need to follow your earlier advice: These are FICTIONAL characters, so don't let your apparent dis agreement with my opinion ruin what has been up to now a pleasantly civil correspondence.

@newecho: I honestly wasn't trying to insult you---when you rush, you are not as clear. And, EXACTLY-you AGREED with a lot of my points, and you HAVEN'T proven the things you claim about matter manipulation, so there you go. Saying that Supes would win 1 out of a hundred is YOUR point of view, while I (and when I check througout the thread, others) have a different view---so there you go.

"Here and there" is 1 out of a 100, as surfer would have to fight stupidly to lose....

The matter manipulation was never a sticking point for me as you fixated on supes goes intangible to get away from red sun and kryptonite... He can't stay intangible indefinitely, so surfer can just wait as he has drained all the radiation out of the sun or turned it to a red sun...

Surfer absorbs the sun and gets a new boyfriend

@theonewhoknows can you explain to me why surfer doesnt get an easy win?

@newecho: That's the difference between me and you---when I make a claim, 99% of what I say I back up with the comic and issue(s) where it ocurred. YOU are making a claim (that Superman can't maintain an intangible state for long) with NO PROOF (other than because you SAY SO). Tell me the comic where Supeman (or a narration box in the comic) states that Kal can only stay intagible for a limited amount of time. And he can do unto Surfer BEFORE Surfer does unto him. And you STILL are "fixtating" on a red sun doing damage to Kal for a long enough period to weaken him enough so he doesn't do something to Surfer in the meantime (you CLAIMED you understood that a red sun is not an instant win, but here you are again babbling about it).

I'm sorry, man---but you're repeating yourself, and I've grown bored with this useless back and forth. Others have admitted that Supes would win (and more than "1 out of a hundred"). If you want to cling to your erroneous, without facts to prove it opinions, you can---but with someone else.

Still Surfer very easily

The Silver Surfer.

@jbourne_32: Read posts 39, 47, and 132.

@theonewhoknows:

Ok... how does superman go intangible????? he vibrates his molecules,,, guess what that means??? he is using his powers and with no solar radiation to give clark his power then it eventually runs out... SO the intangible thing is no way for supes to do anything except prolong the fight as his solar powered radiation would eventually run out... I keep repeating myself?? why because you ignore everything said and slant it to fit your needs....

@newecho: Debating with TheOneWhoKnows Is just not fun you can see in this how TheOnewhoKnows is terible debater

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/conan-the-barbarian-vs-captain-america-380903/?page=3