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#1 Posted by SilverGalford (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

who wins ?

#2 Posted by Noah Kenshiki (2489 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman flicks Naruto
 
Game over

#3 Posted by King Saturn (223969 posts) - - Show Bio
The Man of Steel beats Naturo easy...
#4 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

Though I do like some Naruto characters...well...it seems like this is going to be a Super Stomp, no?  Naruto usually needs Kyubi to bail him out but I don't even think Kyubi is getting him out of this one, unless Superman can't damage it for some reason.
 
On second thought, Kyubi wouldn't even come out and avoid the humiliation of being destroyed by Supes.

#5 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
 On second thought, Kyubi wouldn't even come out and avoid the humiliation of being destroyed by Supes. "
nice one
#6 Posted by SilverGalford (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

i guess the only respectable opponet in the anime universe is goku nothing else

#7 Posted by kagetaicho (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont know. arrancar from bleach would also stand a chance since they can only be killed by shinigami or other hollow. But even then they could never beat superman in a fight. they could at best survive his attacks.

#8 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio
@SilverGalford said:
"

i guess the only respectable opponet in the anime universe is goku nothing else

"
 
Aizen, Shunsui or Barragan would have a decent chance because their abilities are broken.  A few DBZ characters can probably beat Superman (or at least be a better fight than this if they can't).  I could see Superman being absorbed or turned into candy by Buu's candy beam.  I could see Goku touching Superman and teleporting him to King Kai's planet which does not have the yellow sun that fuels Superman.  Vegeto could do the same....so could Cell if he wanted to.   Can a powerless Superman defeat them?
 
Straight up it would be a pretty good fight with Goku but I'll admit there are some versions of superman that Goku can't beat, like that one that sneezes away Solar Systems.  Normally though, I don't know how well Superman can keep up if we put their powers on similar levels though.  DBZ characters fight at a faster pace than I've seen Superman fight at.  If we assume Superman can hit Goku then it is a battle of far superior strength (superman) vs. speed (+ teleportation), martial arts, and planet-solar system busting KI blasts. 
 
Ya know, everything is opinion based on how you think Superman would handle some of these broken abilities.  For example, Barragan has been shown to decay anything he gets near, but he never fought a Kryptonian.  It may or may not work.  Same with the candy beam...maybe Superman would resist it or be able to fight like Vegeto could.   Shunsui can lock Superman in that sword slash color game which may or may not damage him.   Aizen...heh...just the king of broken, tough fight with the magic spells and the illusions IMO.  Plus he may be intangible for Supes.
 
Also, some One Piece characters may be too tough for him also.  They seem intangible to anything that Superman is capable of dishing out.  Can Superman defeat a guy made of Light or Ice or Toxins (as in no organs to damage) or a woman who can turn men to stone?  Blackbeard also takes away powers so it may or may not work, its just tough to match up their abilities properly since they come from different Universes.  Whitebeard apparently cracks dimensions from what it looks like so maybe he can cut someone in half despite how strong they are...who knows until his power is fully revealed.
 
I guess it all comes down to how powerful people want to make Superman.  If he can simply sneeze and throw the planets out of orbit then I'd say he can beat all these characters (kind of like a Popeye the sailor man feat though...).  But more reasonable versions of Superman have a good chance of dying vs. some Anime characters.  And there are anime characters a lot more powerful than the ones I named but these seem like reasonable opponents for some more modern versions of superman.
#9 Posted by mv (1876 posts) - - Show Bio

WOW Naruto get's a face lift and that's of supes goes easy on him

#10 Posted by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
" @SilverGalford said:
"

i guess the only respectable opponet in the anime universe is goku nothing else

"
 Aizen, Shunsui or Barragan would have a decent chance because their abilities are broken.  A few DBZ characters can probably beat Superman (or at least be a better fight than this if they can't).  I could see Superman being absorbed or turned into candy by Buu's candy beam.  I could see Goku touching Superman and teleporting him to King Kai's planet which does not have the yellow sun that fuels Superman.  Vegeto could do the same....so could Cell if he wanted to.   Can a powerless Superman defeat them? Straight up it would be a pretty good fight with Goku but I'll admit there are some versions of superman that Goku can't beat, like that one that sneezes away Solar Systems.  Normally though, I don't know how well Superman can keep up if we put their powers on similar levels though.  DBZ characters fight at a faster pace than I've seen Superman fight at.  If we assume Superman can hit Goku then it is a battle of far superior strength (superman) vs. speed (+ teleportation), martial arts, and planet-solar system busting KI blasts.   Ya know, everything is opinion based on how you think Superman would handle some of these broken abilities.  For example, Barragan has been shown to decay anything he gets near, but he never fought a Kryptonian.  It may or may not work.  Same with the candy beam...maybe Superman would resist it or be able to fight like Vegeto could.   Shunsui can lock Superman in that sword slash color game which may or may not damage him.   Aizen...heh...just the king of broken, tough fight with the magic spells and the illusions IMO.  Plus he may be intangible for Supes.  Also, some One Piece characters may be too tough for him also.  They seem intangible to anything that Superman is capable of dishing out.  Can Superman defeat a guy made of Light or Ice or Poison (as in no organs to damage) or a woman who can turn men to stone?  Blackbeard also takes away powers so it may or may not work, its just tough to match up their abilities properly since they come from different Universes. "
Superman is much faster than Goku. much, much faster. let me know when Goku can keep up with the Flash.
#11 Posted by kagetaicho (1992 posts) - - Show Bio
@CAPiTA said:
" @Klandicar said:
" @SilverGalford said:
"

i guess the only respectable opponet in the anime universe is goku nothing else

"
 Aizen, Shunsui or Barragan would have a decent chance because their abilities are broken.  A few DBZ characters can probably beat Superman (or at least be a better fight than this if they can't).  I could see Superman being absorbed or turned into candy by Buu's candy beam.  I could see Goku touching Superman and teleporting him to King Kai's planet which does not have the yellow sun that fuels Superman.  Vegeto could do the same....so could Cell if he wanted to.   Can a powerless Superman defeat them? Straight up it would be a pretty good fight with Goku but I'll admit there are some versions of superman that Goku can't beat, like that one that sneezes away Solar Systems.  Normally though, I don't know how well Superman can keep up if we put their powers on similar levels though.  DBZ characters fight at a faster pace than I've seen Superman fight at.  If we assume Superman can hit Goku then it is a battle of far superior strength (superman) vs. speed (+ teleportation), martial arts, and planet-solar system busting KI blasts.   Ya know, everything is opinion based on how you think Superman would handle some of these broken abilities.  For example, Barragan has been shown to decay anything he gets near, but he never fought a Kryptonian.  It may or may not work.  Same with the candy beam...maybe Superman would resist it or be able to fight like Vegeto could.   Shunsui can lock Superman in that sword slash color game which may or may not damage him.   Aizen...heh...just the king of broken, tough fight with the magic spells and the illusions IMO.  Plus he may be intangible for Supes.  Also, some One Piece characters may be too tough for him also.  They seem intangible to anything that Superman is capable of dishing out.  Can Superman defeat a guy made of Light or Ice or Poison (as in no organs to damage) or a woman who can turn men to stone?  Blackbeard also takes away powers so it may or may not work, its just tough to match up their abilities properly since they come from different Universes. "
Superman is much faster than Goku. much, much faster. let me know when Goku can keep up with the Flash. "
Superman cant match flash either.
#12 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

 Superman is much faster than Goku. much, much faster. let me know when Goku can keep up with the Flash.  
 
 
 
 


It isn't flight speed we are talking about though.  We are talking about how fast they can fight.  Goku has been shown fighting at instant speed, as in, you throw a punch and he is already behind you with teleportation.  From what I've seen of Superheroes in general they SLUG IT OUT.  As in...a fist fight with super strength.  Honestly what Goku did to Cell was impressive.  Power up a planet buster and teleport next to him...let it loose and BOOM.  It is a hard thing to counter IMO.
 
Superman is obviously a lot stronger and more durable, that is all I can really give him.  Goku is a better melee fighter, more destructive (unless it is solar system sneezer Superman), and has better ways to kill someone.  BTW, what is stopping him from teleporting Superman into the afterlife with him and depowering him since there is no yellow sun.  Superman wasn't always Superman, he is human level without the yellow star. 
 
Canon goku just has to touch you to teleport you with him.  And he can travel between the physical world and the afterlife instantaneously.  Goku can definitely warp next to Superman to touch him, it isn't that hard.  If lots of slower guys than Goku can hit/touch Superman then a blitzer like Goku can.
#13 Edited by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:

"

 Superman is much faster than Goku. much, much faster. let me know when Goku can keep up with the Flash.  
 
 
 
 

It isn't flight speed we are talking about though.  We are talking about how fast they can fight.  Goku has been shown fighting at instant speed, as in, you throw a punch and he is already behind you with teleportation.  From what I've seen of Superheroes in general they SLUG IT OUT.  As in...a fist fight with super strength.  Honestly what Goku did to Cell was impressive.  Power up a planet buster and teleport next to him...let it loose and BOOM.  It is a hard thing to counter IMO.  Superman is obviously a lot stronger and more durable, that is all I can really give him.  Goku is a better melee fighter, more destructive (unless it is solar system sneezer Superman), and has better ways to kill someone.  BTW, what is stopping him from teleporting Superman into the afterlife with him and depowering him since there is no yellow sun.  Superman wasn't always Superman, he is human level without the yellow star.   Canon goku just has to touch you to teleport you with him.  And he can travel between the physical world and the afterlife instantaneously.  Goku can definitely warp next to Superman to touch him, it isn't that hard.  If lots of slower guys than Goku can hit/touch Superman then a blitzer like Goku can. "
i'm talking about fight speed too. Superman's just as fast as Flash in fight speed, and there are enough people here that can provide scans. Goku teleporting Supes to the afterlife is a nonfactor, since Goku would have a hard time even touching him. if a bunch of normal humans can keep up with Goku, Superman is way out of his reach.
 
@kagetaicho: Superman is not faster than Flash. he can keep up with him in a fight though.
#14 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

The problem with your argument is that other people are able to see Superman being hit, like when he is being smacked around by Doomsday humans like Lois Lane are perceiving it happen and showing concern.  That fight was not The Flash speed, it was a slug fest.  They are superhuman speed but still fighting at a speed perceivable to humans.  On the otherhand, DBZ characters completely disappear from human sight when they fight (very early in the series I might add).  Later on, Goku becomes instant, as in you can tell him you forgot your keys back at your house and he can disappear and reappear with them in his hand in an instant.  Superman has no counter for Goku appearing next to him with his hand on him then teleporting him to the afterlife.   Sorry but he is just written to be fully capable of defeating many versions of Superman.  I know you guys want to back your blue boy but the canon says otherwise.  
 
Superman's best feats can win, but normally Superman isn't a solar system sneezer anymore.  In a real fight with Goku he could very well lose.  That is why it is so highly debatable, not because of "DBZ fanboys" as you call them, but Goku is just written to be a good match for him based on his abilities.
 
I've always thought that Flash could outspeed Superman easy but Superman's abilities (like a thunder clap) and super strength could close the gap.  If Superman was supposed to be faster than flash it is pretty bad writing since Flash is just speed and has better speed feats.  He should beat Supes in that department.

#15 Posted by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
" The problem with your argument is that other people are able to see Superman being hit, like when he is being smacked around by Doomsday humans like Lois Lane are perceiving it happen and showing concern.  That fight was not The Flash speed, it was a slug fest.  They are superhuman speed but still fighting at a speed perceivable to humans.  On the otherhand, DBZ characters completely disappear from human sight when they fight (very early in the series I might add).  Later on, Goku becomes instant, as in you can tell him you forgot your keys back at your house and he can disappear and reappear with them in his hand in an instant.  Superman has no counter for Goku appearing next to him with his hand on him then teleporting him to the afterlife.   Sorry but he is just written to be fully capable of defeating many versions of Superman.  I know you guys want to back your blue boy but the canon says otherwise.    Superman's best feats can win, but normally Superman isn't a solar system sneezer anymore.  In a real fight with Goku he could very well lose.  That is why it is so highly debatable, not because of "DBZ fanboys" as you call them, but Goku is just written to be a good match for him based on his abilities. "
i honestly don't even like Superman.
 
the way Superman is, though, nothing Goku could do would even hurt him. and no, Goku is not as fast as Zoom. the way you're making him out to be, Goku should be, but he's not anywhere close to Zoom's level. Superman could throw a ridiculous amount of punches in a single second. DBZ fighters, while fast, have yet to throw more than 10 punches in one second. Goku's not a match for Superman on any level unless Goku's packing a pocket full of kryptonite.
#16 Posted by Final Arrow (24383 posts) - - Show Bio

There is a lot more characters in Manga Universe who could face superman toe to toe. But everyone seems bent on placing Goku against him. Sounds silly but Light from Death Note stands more of a chance against Superman then Goku. The sad thing is a lot of people place their DBZ knowledge on the show and not on the Manga, Sadly over here DBZ the Anime holds no ground. As much of the feats from superman are based in the comics, there fore anything in GT can not be counted as it is not even considered Cannon amongst Dragonball Fans. Even Minato and Tobi from Naruto would stand a better chance due to their time manipulation Jutsu Or even   Admiral Kizaru from one piece or Haruhi Suzumiya. The only problem is providing evidence from Manga as it is not often stated how fast a character is moving or how strong they are. Take bleach, we think they are moving fast and are strong but how strong, how fast, there are no actual facts to back up anything they do we can only post pictures and then we enter a scan war. I mean Azein in my mind should be able to hold ground against the big blue guy but how do we prove that? 

#17 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:

" There is a lot more characters in Manga Universe who could face superman toe to toe. But everyone seems bent on placing Goku against him. Sounds silly but Light from Death Note stands more of a chance against Superman then Goku. The sad thing is a lot of people place their DBZ knowledge on the show and not on the Manga, Sadly over here DBZ the Anime holds no ground. As much of the feats from superman are based in the comics, there fore anything in GT can not be counted as it is not even considered Cannon amongst Dragonball Fans. Even Minato and Tobi from Naruto would stand a better chance due to their time manipulation Jutsu Or even   Admiral Kizaru from one piece or Haruhi Suzumiya. The only problem is providing evidence from Manga as it is not often stated how fast a character is moving or how strong they are. Take bleach, we think they are moving fast and are strong but how strong, how fast, there are no actual facts to back up anything they do we can only post pictures and then we enter a scan war. I mean Azein in my mind should be able to hold ground against the big blue guy but how do we prove that?  "

 
You are generalizing too much because I'm using the manga with my feats of Goku.  Instant transmission is canon.  I've used no GT feats because Goku has plenty of canon feats in DBZ.  He has teleported Cell instantly to the afterlife and it is canon.  Not to be rude, but I could honestly use DBZ characters from movies that would make short work of Superman if I use anime and movie feats, you realize this right?  For example, Cooler or Broly are capable of destroying the Yellow Sun with ease and eliminating Superman's power source.  Broly destroyed galaxies in his debut because it shows an entire galaxy going up in flames at the beginning of the movie at Broly's hands...in seconds.   But I've been canon this whole time guys and yet you guys just ignore it because it isn't convenient for your arguments.
 
It isn't about proving if a character beats him for sure because that is impossible.  All we can say is that a character appears to beat him.  For example, Aizen has a good shot because he uses magic attacks and may be invisible to superman because of the shinigami factor.  Furthermore, even if Superman can see him which is a stretch Aizen still can completely control Superman's 5 senses.  He can certainly fool Superman into stepping into a portal to take away his powers (Hueco Mundo doesn't have a yellow sun).  Aizen is obviously good with prep since he fooled the entire Soul Society at once, even controlling their own government system the whole time.  
 
However, when people refuse to acknowledge that these canon backed manga characters are powerful and ignore their feats while saying "oh, superman is a light speed fighter who can solar system sneeze" when he usually isn't (has he ever solar system sneezed a villain to death?)....well...it just becomes pointless to even bother debating about it.   I read a lot of superman, he is usually portrayed as the strongest slugging type fighter with powerful heat vision.  He isn't a light speed fighter though...otherwise the people he fights wouldn't be able to do anything...but they do.
 
 What is the point of fighting if you are going to use a superman who just sneezes and wins?  Might as well put him against one of those characters like Haruhi for a very boring fight where she just uses her will to make superman not exist.
#18 Posted by Sleuth (2664 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman's powers still remain intact even if there is no yellow sun around. He's been soaking up the energy for years and it won't instantly deplete if the sun was somehow taken out.

#19 Edited by Final Arrow (24383 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:

" @Final Arrow said:

" There is a lot more characters in Manga Universe who could face superman toe to toe. But everyone seems bent on placing Goku against him. Sounds silly but Light from Death Note stands more of a chance against Superman then Goku. The sad thing is a lot of people place their DBZ knowledge on the show and not on the Manga, Sadly over here DBZ the Anime holds no ground. As much of the feats from superman are based in the comics, there fore anything in GT can not be counted as it is not even considered Cannon amongst Dragonball Fans. Even Minato and Tobi from Naruto would stand a better chance due to their time manipulation Jutsu Or even   Admiral Kizaru from one piece or Haruhi Suzumiya. The only problem is providing evidence from Manga as it is not often stated how fast a character is moving or how strong they are. Take bleach, we think they are moving fast and are strong but how strong, how fast, there are no actual facts to back up anything they do we can only post pictures and then we enter a scan war. I mean Azein in my mind should be able to hold ground against the big blue guy but how do we prove that?  "
 You are generalizing too much because I'm using the manga with my feats of Goku.  Instant transmission is canon.  I've used no GT feats because Goku has plenty of canon feats in DBZ.  He has teleported Cell instantly to the afterlife and it is canon.  Not to be rude, but I could honestly use DBZ characters from movies that would make short work of Superman if I use anime and movie feats, you realize this right?  For example, Cooler or Broly are capable of destroying the Yellow Sun with ease and eliminating Superman's power source.  Broly destroyed galaxies in his debut because it shows an entire galaxy going up in flames at the beginning of the movie at Broly's hands...in seconds.   But I've been canon this whole time guys and yet you guys just ignore it because it isn't convenient for your arguments. "
I don't think I was "generalizing" at all Actually my post was nothing to do with the Goku Vs Superman debate! I think you read over it to fast. What I was doing was making a comparison between Manga and comics and saying how hard it is to come up with correct replies to back up a Manga character, I also stated that there are stronger Manga/ Anime Characters to use if you wanted to have a better debate rather then the normal Goku Vs Superman that goes round and round. I really have no idea where you took from my post that superman beats Goku or vice versa. I ignored nothing, but I do think you complete missed the point of my post and the reason I posted it in this thread. So please take the time to read over it before you reply rather then think I am actually talking about the battle. The first part of my post actually states nt " There is a lot more characters in Manga Universe who could face superman toe to toe. But everyone seems bent on placing Goku against him. Sounds silly but Light from Death Note stands more of a chance against Superman then Goku.   I was saying this as to imply that light only has to write his name to win, backing up the first statement  so I have no idea where you're response came from about Cannon and non cannon, nothing at my post was aimed at you otherwise I would have quoted you, it was aimed at the thread! 
#20 Posted by Final Arrow (24383 posts) - - Show Bio

Also it my have been better if you read my post above before editing you'r own, As I said my first post had nothing to do with Superman Vs Goku, I think you got to the point about cannon and took it personally and decided to go on a rant about it, please read my post again. If this is a simple Superman Vs Goku thread it should be locked as it has been done many times before. Please read post not skim them.

#21 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude.  People put Goku against Superman because their powers are similar and it would be a good fight.  It is speed and martial arts against a guy who is stronger and more durable.  They both are honorable heroes in their respective world and clearly come out on top against impossible odds.  It would be a hand to hand masterpiece if it were to happen that would level the landscape.  But people want to dismiss it and say "Superman solar system sneezes and wins".  Well, I can say "Goku teleports Superman into the afterlife" since it is canon.  But at the end of the day fights like those are just stupid and boring (along with being ridiculous).    In other words, the characters you name are silly and boring too because they aren't even a fight.  For example, why would I make a Light vs. Superman thread?  Wow, he writes Clark Kent on a piece of paper and kills Superman.  Good job.  We still don't know if that power extends to Kryptonians.  That would just be a troll thread IMO.  I'll say that Superman solar system sneezes to give him the win since writing someone's name on a piece of paper is a pathetic way to beat someone.  And since Light was clown shoes at the end of the manga he loses by default.  ;)
 
People named Naruto because they thought he was on Superman's level in terms of fighting (not solar system sneezing) and I agree that he isnt.  Goku comes up a lot because he matches up with superman perfectly in terms of power...as they are generally portrayed. Sorry if I came off rude but Goku is being written off a lot even though he has feats that put him up there with many versions of Superman (just not a solar system sneezer Superman).  People will say "oh, that is an anime feat" when it isnt, he has instantaneous movement in the manga and amazing reaction time plus planet busting capability though he would never bust a planet.  It is canon backed though...

#22 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5431 posts) - - Show Bio

superman

#23 Posted by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio
@Final Arrow said:
" Also it my have been better if you read my post above before editing you'r own, As I said my first post had nothing to do with Superman Vs Goku, I think you got to the point about cannon and took it personally and decided to go on a rant about it, please read my post again. If this is a simple Superman Vs Goku thread it should be locked as it has been done many times before. Please read post not skim them. "
 
Dude, I'm sorry but I read your post and it appeared directed at me.  You basically went into a bar when someone was talking about CANON Goku and immediately came off saying "The sad thing is lots of people don't use canon Goku and use the anime instead bla bla bla".  Of course I'll respond...rofl.  I dont have a problem with you but it seemed very directed at me if you read it again as I was the only one on this thread naming Goku's feats.  Your post wouldnt make sense otherwise if it wasn't directed at me.
#24 Posted by Final Arrow (24383 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
" Dude.  People put Goku against Superman because their powers are similar and it would be a good fight.  It is speed and martial arts against a guy who is stronger and more durable.  They both are honorable heroes in their respective world and clearly come out on top against impossible odds.  It would be a hand to hand masterpiece if it were to happen that would level the landscape.  But people want to dismiss it and say "Superman solar system sneezes and wins".  Well, I can say "Goku teleports Superman into the afterlife" since it is canon.  But at the end of the day fights like those are just stupid and boring (along with being ridiculous).    In other words, the characters you name are silly and boring too because they aren't even a fight.  For example, why would I make a Light vs. Superman thread?  Wow, he writes Clark Kent on a piece of paper and kills Superman.  Good job.  We still don't know if that power extends to Kryptonians.  That would just be a troll thread IMO.  People named Naruto because they thought he was on Superman's level in terms of fighting (not solar system sneezing) and I agree that he isnt.  Goku comes up a lot because he matches up with superman perfectly in terms of power...as they are generally portrayed. Sorry if I came off rude but Goku is being written off a lot even though he has feats that put him up there with many versions of Superman (just not a solar system sneezer Superman).  People will say "oh, that is an anime feat" when it isnt, he has instantaneous movement in the manga and amazing reaction time plus planet busting capability though he would never bust a planet.  It is canon backed though... "
This is true but I was saying that another Goku Vs Superman thread is not needed when there is a world of other Manga characters to put him against, Yes light was a bad example but that is all it was an example of someone else to fight, take the other examples they are all well founded manga characters that can be used in a fight against superman. The difference is that they are not used. A lot of user over here ignore Goku's feats as they are comic fans, hence why i no longer debate in Goku Vs Superman threads they become pointless and soon become invaded with both superman fans and DBZ fans and it gets nowhere. The whole point of my statment was to say we could use other characters but it is harder to back up our facts. As i said about the whole bleach world. Goku Vs Superman has been done to death on the vine and trust me I know, But why not have other characters if you can argue the point of view fairly and justify it. To me and you something may be cannon backed but we both come from a more Manga fan base then comic fans, It is often one or the other and when that happens it is hard to explain power differences in worlds. But we are going around and around with something that is slowly becoming nothing to do with the battle at hand. What I would suggest is going back to a Superman Vs Goku thread using the sreach option and brining it back to the first page, there is no point in having two threads for the same thing.
#25 Posted by Final Arrow (24383 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
" @Final Arrow said:
" Also it my have been better if you read my post above before editing you'r own, As I said my first post had nothing to do with Superman Vs Goku, I think you got to the point about cannon and took it personally and decided to go on a rant about it, please read my post again. If this is a simple Superman Vs Goku thread it should be locked as it has been done many times before. Please read post not skim them. "
 Dude, I'm sorry but I read your post and it appeared directed at me.  You basically went into a bar when someone was talking about CANON Goku and immediately came off saying "The sad thing is lots of people don't use canon Goku and use the anime instead bla bla bla".  Of course I'll respond...rofl.  I dont have a problem with you but it seemed very directed at me if you read it again as I was the only one on this thread naming Goku's feats.  Your post wouldnt make sense otherwise if it wasn't directed at me. "
Oh sorry you took it that way I was just posting what I thought in the thread nor personally at you, I have been around for awhile and have seen where Goku Vs Superman leads and thought I would throw in my 2 cent before it headed down the dark and deep path of GT.
#26 Posted by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
" @Final Arrow said:
" Also it my have been better if you read my post above before editing you'r own, As I said my first post had nothing to do with Superman Vs Goku, I think you got to the point about cannon and took it personally and decided to go on a rant about it, please read my post again. If this is a simple Superman Vs Goku thread it should be locked as it has been done many times before. Please read post not skim them. "
 Dude, I'm sorry but I read your post and it appeared directed at me.  You basically went into a bar when someone was talking about CANON Goku and immediately came off saying "The sad thing is lots of people don't use canon Goku and use the anime instead bla bla bla".  Of course I'll respond...rofl.  I dont have a problem with you but it seemed very directed at me if you read it again as I was the only one on this thread naming Goku's feats.  Your post wouldnt make sense otherwise if it wasn't directed at me. "
like i said, there is no indication other than Cell's word that anyone in DBZ canon is a solar system buster. if we go by that logic, that means Sentry is as strong as Galactus because Spiderman says so, yet Sentry gets wrecked by the Hulk. you see where the failure in logic here is?
#27 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

 This is true but I was saying that another Goku Vs Superman thread is not needed when there is a world of other Manga characters to put him against, Yes light was a bad example but that is all it was an example of someone else to fight, take the other examples they are all well founded manga characters that can be used in a fight against superman. The difference is that they are not used. A lot of user over here ignore Goku's feats as they are comic fans, hence why i no longer debate in Goku Vs Superman threads they become pointless and soon become invaded with both superman fans and DBZ fans and it gets nowhere. The whole point of my statment was to say we could use other characters but it is harder to back up our facts. As i said about the whole bleach world. Goku Vs Superman has been done to death on the vine and trust me I know, But why not have other characters if you can argue the point of view fairly and justify it. To me and you something may be cannon backed but we both come from a more Manga fan base then comic fans, It is often one or the other and when that happens it is hard to explain power differences in worlds. But we are going around and around with something that is slowly becoming nothing to do with the battle at hand. What I would suggest is going back to a Superman Vs Goku thread using the sreach option and brining it back to the first page, there is no point in having two threads for the same thing.
 

Heheh, at least we came to the same conclusion.  I won't bump a Superman vs. Goku thread because I know that no one can win.  Both have feats that can destroy each other.   Both have high and low showings that can be used for and against them.  Just becomes pointless and will be decided on the number of True Blue comic fans vs. Diehard DBZ fans...and I think that people are more willing to dismiss Goku like you said.  But thats why I won't bump it, I guess I was just naming feats to present an argument why Goku is a good matchup for Superman and why it comes up so much.  Some people think Goku only has anime feats like you said...it isn't necessarily disturbing to me because I like Superman a lot too (about equal) but I just thought I could add some manga insight on why Goku is one tough customer for Supes.   ;)
#28 Posted by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@CAPiTA said:
" @Klandicar said:
" @Final Arrow said:
" Also it my have been better if you read my post above before editing you'r own, As I said my first post had nothing to do with Superman Vs Goku, I think you got to the point about cannon and took it personally and decided to go on a rant about it, please read my post again. If this is a simple Superman Vs Goku thread it should be locked as it has been done many times before. Please read post not skim them. "
 Dude, I'm sorry but I read your post and it appeared directed at me.  You basically went into a bar when someone was talking about CANON Goku and immediately came off saying "The sad thing is lots of people don't use canon Goku and use the anime instead bla bla bla".  Of course I'll respond...rofl.  I dont have a problem with you but it seemed very directed at me if you read it again as I was the only one on this thread naming Goku's feats.  Your post wouldnt make sense otherwise if it wasn't directed at me. "
like i said, there is no indication other than Cell's word that anyone in DBZ canon is a solar system buster. if we go by that logic, that means Sentry is as strong as Galactus because Spiderman says so, yet Sentry gets wrecked by the Hulk. you see where the failure in logic here is? "
no DBZ fan has ever addressed this issue, so until Sentry actually beats Galactus, no DBZ characters are solar system busters.
#29 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio
@CAPiTA said:

" @Klandicar said:

" @Final Arrow said:

" Also it my have been better if you read my post above before editing you'r own, As I said my first post had nothing to do with Superman Vs Goku, I think you got to the point about cannon and took it personally and decided to go on a rant about it, please read my post again. If this is a simple Superman Vs Goku thread it should be locked as it has been done many times before. Please read post not skim them. "
 Dude, I'm sorry but I read your post and it appeared directed at me.  You basically went into a bar when someone was talking about CANON Goku and immediately came off saying "The sad thing is lots of people don't use canon Goku and use the anime instead bla bla bla".  Of course I'll respond...rofl.  I dont have a problem with you but it seemed very directed at me if you read it again as I was the only one on this thread naming Goku's feats.  Your post wouldnt make sense otherwise if it wasn't directed at me. "
like i said, there is no indication other than Cell's word that anyone in DBZ canon is a solar system buster. if we go by that logic, that means Sentry is as strong as Galactus because Spiderman says so, yet Sentry gets wrecked by the Hulk. you see where the failure in logic here is? "
Well, Cell's word is canon and the mouthpiece of the author (general manga rule).  But if you want to argue about there being no indication that he is telling the truth I disagree.  There is strong indication that they can bust Solar Systems besides Cell's word.  Here is the cannon argument (manga, non-anime):  Piccolo had a power level around 1000 (which is canon via Nappa's scouter) and busted the moon with a quick KI blast (which is canon).  Frieza had a power level of 500,000 and could bust a planet bigger than the Earth (He destroyed planet vegeta in the canon manga).  The planet that Frieza busted being bigger than the Earth and is canon backed because Nappa commented that Earth's gravity was relatively weak while flying around ON EARTH (manga canon).  SSJ Goku far exceeded Frieza's base power level of ~500,000 (canon and evidenced by how SSJ Goku took on Frieza's final form).  SSJ Goku was FAR stronger than Frieza's base (we know he is far beyond planet busting at this point).   Then multiple power level increases occur for the characters (androids > SSJ, SSJ > Androids, SSJ < Cell, ascended SSJ >>> Cell Form 2, Cell Form 3 >>>ascended SSJ, and finally SSJ2 Gohan which was approximately equal to Super Perfect Cell when he made the solar system busting statement).  In other words, you say he is lying, but there is strong evidence to indicate that he is serious since he is by canon FAR beyond the power of planet busting characters. 
 
The author clearly intended to have Cell be a solar system busting villain to put more at stake than the Earth when Gohan power clashed with him.  Most DBZ fans will take Cell at his word due to all the powerups and the fact that characters who were like ants compared to Cell could bust moons/planets (Piccolo, base frieza).  Also the reaction of the characters when he said it was not "He's lying, don't worry, it won't even bust a city".  They can sense power (canon), remember, they knew what was before them. 
 
And your examples really have nothing to do with this, since Spiderman is obviously exaggerating (he jokes a lot) if he really said that, I'd like to see the scans though to put it in perspective.  It was probably a way of saying "damn Sentry, you are strong" while in Cell's case he was serving as the author's indication of how powerful this new and improved Cell really was.   And the funny thing is...character's like SSJ3 Goku and Vegeto were >>>> Cell by the end of the manga.  ;)
 
I guess what I'm saying is that you have to use your brain sometimes and think about whether it is logical for Cell to be solar system busting or not after the repeated powerups and his direct statements.  Do you want to prove that Super Perfect Cell was only as strong as Piccolo with 1000 power level or as strong as base Frieza?  Because that was what you would have to do to go against the canon that says he was a solar system buster.
#30 Edited by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:

" @CAPiTA said:

" @Klandicar said:

" @Final Arrow said:

" Also it my have been better if you read my post above before editing you'r own, As I said my first post had nothing to do with Superman Vs Goku, I think you got to the point about cannon and took it personally and decided to go on a rant about it, please read my post again. If this is a simple Superman Vs Goku thread it should be locked as it has been done many times before. Please read post not skim them. "

 Dude, I'm sorry but I read your post and it appeared directed at me.  You basically went into a bar when someone was talking about CANON Goku and immediately came off saying "The sad thing is lots of people don't use canon Goku and use the anime instead bla bla bla".  Of course I'll respond...rofl.  I dont have a problem with you but it seemed very directed at me if you read it again as I was the only one on this thread naming Goku's feats.  Your post wouldnt make sense otherwise if it wasn't directed at me. "
like i said, there is no indication other than Cell's word that anyone in DBZ canon is a solar system buster. if we go by that logic, that means Sentry is as strong as Galactus because Spiderman says so, yet Sentry gets wrecked by the Hulk. you see where the failure in logic here is? "
Well, Cell's word is canon and the mouthpiece of the author (general manga rule).  But if you want to argue about there being no indication that he is telling the truth I disagree.  There is strong indication that they can bust Solar Systems besides Cell's word.  Here is the cannon argument (manga, non-anime):  Piccolo had a power level around 1000 (which is canon via Nappa's scouter) and busted the moon with a quick KI blast (which is canon).  Frieza had a power level of 500,000 and could bust a planet bigger than the Earth (He destroyed planet vegeta in the canon manga).  The planet that Frieza busted being bigger than the Earth and is canon backed because Nappa commented that Earth's gravity was relatively weak while flying around ON EARTH (manga canon).  SSJ Goku far exceeded Frieza's base power level of ~500,000 (canon and evidenced by how SSJ Goku took on Frieza's final form).  SSJ Goku was FAR stronger than Frieza's base (we know he is far beyond planet busting at this point).   Then multiple power level increases occur for the characters (androids > SSJ, SSJ > Androids, SSJ < Cell, ascended SSJ >>> Cell Form 2, Cell Form 3 >>>ascended SSJ, and finally SSJ2 Gohan which was approximately equal to Super Perfect Cell when he made the solar system busting statement).  In other words, you say he is lying, but there is strong evidence to indicate that he is serious since he is by canon FAR beyond the power of planet busting characters.   The author clearly intended to have Cell be a solar system busting villain to put more at stake than the Earth when Gohan power clashed with him.  Most DBZ fans will take Cell at his word due to all the powerups and the fact that characters who were like ants compared to Cell could bust moons/planets (Piccolo, base frieza).  Also the reaction of the characters when he said it was not "He's lying, don't worry, it won't even bust a city".  They can sense power (canon), remember, they knew what was before them.   And your examples really have nothing to do with this, since Spiderman is obviously exaggerating (he jokes a lot) if he really said that, I'd like to see the scans though to put it in perspective.  It was probably a way of saying "damn Sentry, you are strong" while in Cell's case he was serving as the author's indication of how powerful this new and improved Cell really was.   And the funny thing is...character's like SSJ3 Goku and Vegeto were >>>> Cell by the end of the manga.  ;)  I guess what I'm saying is that you have to use your brain sometimes and think about whether it is logical for Cell to be solar system busting or not after the repeated powerups and his direct statements.  Do you want to prove that Super Perfect Cell was only as strong as Piccolo with 1000 power level or as strong as base Frieza?  Because that was what you would have to do to go against the canon that says he was a solar system buster. "

there you go.
 
the problem with your logic is that there is no actual proof and is all speculation. your logic is flawed that way, because if we start trying to add basic logic into the manga/comic arguments, one could argue that since:
 
Surfer > Uni-Lord and Uni-Lord = Galactus, then Surfer > Galactus, which is obviously not true.
 
this is why we use on-panel feats, because if we just went by what characters said half the time, everyone would be a galaxy buster.
#31 Posted by MrDirector786 (43487 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman takes this with absolute ease.
#32 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

 there you go.
 
the problem with your logic is that there is no actual proof and is all speculation. your logic is flawed that way, because if we start trying to add basic logic into the manga/comic arguments, one could argue that since:
 
Surfer > Uni-Lord and Uni-Lord = Galactus, then Surfer > Galactus, which is obviously not true.
 
this is why we use on-panel feats, because if we just went by what characters said half the time, everyone would be a galaxy buster.
 

Sorry but you can say there is a problem with the reasoning all you want but the DBZ canon is that Cell level characters and beyond were solar system busting.  You just don't realize you can't go against the canon because it is your opinion vs. the creator's it seems. 
 
Hmmm...and your logic is actually really flawed with that panel.  It says he ONCE fought Galactus to a standstill but that does not mean Sentry is equivalent to Galactus.  Furthermore, we don't know the specifics of the fight (there is a huge difference between a starving Galactus and a fully powered Galactus, was Sentry stronger in the past for some reason (augmentation/artifcacts), etc).   

Your problem is that Cell only has one statement that he is solar system busting supported by the fact that far lesser characters have busted bigger planets than the Earth already.  There is nothing in the DBZ Universe to contradict his claim.  This fact makes his claim believable since it is all we have to go on.  I think your problem is that you don't want to agree with the canon when it all boils down.   Sorry, but canon > your intepretation when it comes to manga.  If you have a problem with it you should take it up with the creator of DBZ manga.  There is simply nothing in the DBZ canon to indicate Cell was bluffing/lying, only your own doubt.
#33 Posted by Defiant (679 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes 
#34 Edited by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:

"

 there you go.
 
the problem with your logic is that there is no actual proof and is all speculation. your logic is flawed that way, because if we start trying to add basic logic into the manga/comic arguments, one could argue that since:
 
Surfer > Uni-Lord and Uni-Lord = Galactus, then Surfer > Galactus, which is obviously not true.
 
this is why we use on-panel feats, because if we just went by what characters said half the time, everyone would be a galaxy buster.
 

Sorry but you can say there is a problem with the reasoning all you want but the DBZ canon is that Cell level characters and beyond were solar system busting.  You just don't realize you can't go against the canon because it is your opinion vs. the creator's it seems.   Hmmm...and your logic is actually really flawed with that panel.  It says he ONCE fought Galactus to a standstill but that does not mean Sentry is equivalent to Galactus.  However, we don't know the specifics of the fight (there is a huge difference between a starving Galactus and a fully powered Galactus).    Your problem is that Cell only has one statement that he is solar system busting supported by the fact that far lesser characters have busted bigger planets than the Earth already.  There is nothing in the DBZ Universe to contradict his claim.  This fact makes his claim believable since it is all we have to go on.  I think your problem is that you don't want to agree with the canon when it all boils down.   Sorry, but canon > your intepretation when it comes to manga. "
no. you're exaggerating their feats. you're saying the panel i posted is flawed, yet you put so much weight on Cell's word even though his attack could barely scratch the surface of the planet. hungry Galactus is still far above anything in the DBZ universe, and could still bust a galaxy. Sentry can't even bust a planet, so there's no way he's taking Galactus in any way, shape, or form. do you understand this? trying to downplay the context in which Galactus is used means nothing when Galactus is still infinitely more powerful than Sentry in any form.
 
in Marvel and DC, if someone says he's got an attack that could destroy a solar system, no matter who blocks it or takes the brunt of it, it's gonna destroy a solar system if one is around, regardless. that's what you call a feat. not some half-assed villain claiming he can destroy such and such but barely does any damage to anything. i also find it funny that one of Goku's strongest attacks, the Spirit Bomb, and arguably the strongest attack in the Dragonball universe, can barely destroy a planet. i'm sorry, but canon > your interpretation, and canon says the strongest attack in the DBZ universe can't even bust a solar system.
#35 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

There are just too many holes in your reasoning to be a valid argument.
 
1) Your panel is vague and gives NO specifics for the battle which Sentry fought him to a standstill
 
2) Cell's quote is specific, he said he had the power to destroy the solar system in his KI blast.
 
3)   You say the attack barely scratched the surface of the Earth yet don't mention that Gohan countered the attack with his own.  It didn't damage the earth because it didn't explode on the Earth, simple as that.  Yet the force of the collision alone was shaking the planet apart and causing rocks to levitate elsewhere.

http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=dragon-ball&chapter=dragon-ball-417&page_nr=5
 
So yeah, if you are going to ignore the obvious fact that Gohan stopped the beam with his own then there is no point in arguing with you until you reread DBZ.   I mean, you do realize scratching the Earth is irrelevant if the attack doesn't...hit the Earth?  For example, "piccolo didn't scratch the Earth when he blew up the moon" in 1 panel.  This is too easy man...quit trolling.
 
4) Using size to indicate destructive power is only going to work against you.  Piccolo's 1 handed KI blast vaporized the moon in 1 panel.  Below was the size of Gohan's beam.  Much bigger than an arm's width like most KI blasts.
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/dragon-ball/chapter-dragon-ball-418/
 
All evidence points toward a certified solar system buster, were it to explode.
 
Actually...you lost this argument pretty bad if you wanna argue about the size of the blast.
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=dragon-ball&chapter=dragon-ball-208&page_nr=10
 
There is Piccolo's casual moon destroyer when he had like...a thousandth of Gohan SSJ2's power.  Compare it to the crater that Gohan's beam left.  That's why you shoulda stayed away from size.

#36 Edited by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:

" There are just too many holes in your reasoning to be a valid argument.
 
1) Your panel is vague and gives NO specifics for the battle which Sentry fought him to a standstill
 
2) Cell's quote is specific, he said he had the power to destroy the solar system in his KI blast.
 
3)   You say the attack didn't even scratch the surface of the Earth yet don't mention that Gohan countered the attack with his own.  It didn't damage the earth because it didn't explode on the Earth, simple as that.  Yet the force of the collision alone was shaking the planet apart and causing rocks to levitate elsewhere.

http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=dragon-ball&chapter=dragon-ball-417&page_nr=5  So yeah, if you are going to ignore the obvious fact that Gohan stopped the beam with his own then there is no point in arguing with you until you reread DBZ.   I mean, you do realize scratching the Earth is irrelevant right if the attack doesn't...hit the Earth?  For example, "piccolo didn't scratch the Earth when he blew up the moon" in 1 panel.  This is too easy man... "

you wanna know what really happens when two forces, that can both destroy the solar system, collide?
 

 a solar system gets destroyed
you see where the fail in your logic is? you say they can bust solar systems. great. where's the proof? shaking the planet makes it a solar system buster? no, sorry. your logic is the one that's flawed.
 
i've shown you plenty of scans to back up the feats of the characters i support, in which they are actually performing the feats, yet you have none outside of Cell making a statement. you keep saying the same redundant things over and over. why are they redundant? because you have nothing but speculation to prove your claims.
#37 Posted by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

So, your entire argument is based on your perception of artwork.  Your opinion is that if that attack were a solar system buster even if Gohan negated it (like he did in the canon) there should have been more damage than there was to the Earth.   Well, you should really take it up with the artists then but the fact remains that  Cell's power is canon, you aren't.  That is the difference, that is why your argument doesn't hold water.

#38 Posted by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

 i've shown you plenty of scans to back up the feats of the characters i support, in which they are actually performing the feats, yet you have none outside of Cell making a statement. you keep saying the same redundant things over and over. why are they redundant? because you have nothing but speculation to prove your claims.
 
 


 That is your problem, you are so focused on supporting your favorite character you cease to use logic in your arguments.  Don't go to law school, all I can say.  Debating is not your strong suit.  The canon is law and you can't overcome it.
#39 Edited by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:

" So, your entire argument is based on your perception of artwork.  Your opinion is that if that attack were a solar system buster even if Gohan negated it (like he did in the canon) there should have been more damage than there was to the Earth.   Well, you should really take it up with the artists then but the fact remains that  Cell's power is canon, you aren't.  That is the difference, that is why your argument doesn't hold water. "

DBZ canon = Cell couldn't scratch the planet with his attack
DBZ canon = Goku couldn't destroy the solar system with the strongest attack in the series
 
your argument has nothing to do with canon. your argument is the same as you're accusing me of. you complain about artists this, and writers that. how is that an argument? why don't you go write for DBZ then if you're so unhappy about the fact that even DBZ's writers and artists don't think Cell's attack could actually destroy the solar system, and his saying so is purely hyperbole? oh, right, because you don't have a say in it. canon is canon, and canon says no one in DBZ can destroy a solar system. this is canon fact. Cell's statement is hyperbole. you have nothing until you post scans proving otherwise.
#40 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

 DBZ canon = Cell couldn't scratch the planet with his attack
DBZ canon = Goku couldn't destroy the solar system with the strongest attack in the series  
 


 Your just talking nonsense now.  The spirit bomb wasn't the strongest attack in the series like you claimed.  The spirit bomb is an energy attack that works specifically well on beings with "no good in their heart"...it doesn't even work on anyone who is pure-hearted (a child Gohan bounced it away even).  No idea why you claim it was Goku's most powerful blast other than to further your bad argument that already failed IMO.
 
DBZ canon is that Gohan stopped Cell before he used the attack on the earth/solar system...again you ignore canon.
DBZ canon is that Goku wasn't trying to destroy the solar system, but save it.
 
Seriously, quit trolling already, it is getting old bro....
 
I get it dude, you don't like DBZ and want to take away all their feats.  You didn't even think they could bust planets until I proved you wrong a few days ago.  But your arguing against something you cant beat....the cold hard canon.  You realize you will never convince anyone with your weak arguments right?  I'm 100% canon backed, there is no argument you can make (such as using dumb examples of spider man and sentry...irrelevant to DBZ canon).
#41 Posted by xan84 (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

wow just wow, This topic somehow turn into : Ho from the manga can win vs superman.
#42 Edited by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:

"

 DBZ canon = Cell couldn't scratch the planet with his attack
DBZ canon = Goku couldn't destroy the solar system with the strongest attack in the series  
 

 Your just talking nonsense now.  The spirit bomb wasn't the strongest attack in the series like you claimed.  The spirit bomb is an energy attack that works specifically well on beings with "no good in their heart"...it doesn't even work on anyone who is pure-hearted (a child Gohan bounced it away even).  No idea why you claim it was Goku's most powerful blast other than to further your bad argument that already failed IMO.  DBZ canon is that Gohan stopped Cell before he used the attack on the earth/solar system...again you ignore canon. DBZ canon is that Gohan wasn't trying to destroy the solar system, but save it.  Seriously, quit trolling already, it is getting old bro.... "
1. um, no. the Spirit Bomb was capable of destroying a planet. it just so happened to have added effect with absolutely evil beings, and little effect on pure beings. even in DBZ non-canon, Goku had to use a universal version of it.
 
2. false. Cell got it off. Gohan just took the brunt of it. doesn't change the fact that a supposed "solar system buster" was unleashed yet it barely did any damage to the planet. and, no, Gohan didn't nullify it. even in DBZ, when two forces of energy collide, they both release their energy in a massive explosion. they don't simply diffuse or cancel each other out. this alone proves Cell's attack was not a solar system buster.
 
3. doesn't matter whether Gohan was trying to save the solar system or not. the blast should have leveled the solar system if it really was that powerful, yet it didn't. it wasn't a solar system buster.
 
get off DBZ's nuts. you have yet to prove any of your arguments with any scans to prove your claims.
 
@Xan said:
" wow just wow, This topic somehow turn into : Ho from the manga can win vs superman. "

keeps me occupied at work.
#43 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

 
1. um, no. the Spirit Bomb was capable of destroying a planet. it just so happened to have added effect with absolutely evil beings, and little effect on pure beings. even in DBZ non-canon, Goku had to use a universal version of it.
 
2. false. Cell got it off. Gohan just took the brunt of it. doesn't change the fact that a supposed "solar system buster" was unleashed yet it barely did any damage to the planet. and, no, Gohan didn't nullify it. even in DBZ, when two forces of energy collide, they both release their energy in a massive explosion. they don't simply diffuse or cancel each other out. this alone proves Cell's attack was not a solar system buster.
 
3. doesn't matter whether Gohan was trying to save the solar system or not. the blast should have leveled the solar system if it really was that powerful, yet it didn't. it wasn't a solar system buster.
 
get off DBZ's nuts. you have yet to prove any of your arguments with any scans to prove your claims. 
 
 
 


 1.  The spirit bomb against Buu relied on the Earth's energy.  Why should the Earth's energy alone destroy the solar system? There is also the matter of control these characters have.  For example, Destructo disks are condensed to cut...they don't explode.  The spirit bomb is specially made to destroy evil.  It doesn't need destructive feats.  In other words, it is concentrated to an appropriate size to defeat the target, why would he want to solar system bust when he is trying to save it?  You are funny.
 
2.  You claim  "even in DBZ, when two forces of energy collide, they both release their energy in a massive explosion. they don't simply diffuse or cancel each other out. this alone proves Cell's attack was not a solar system buster."  
 
 Not to embarrass you, but this is just your opinion.   Also contradicted by DBZ canon itself.
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/dragon-ball/chapter-dragon-ball-412/
 
So yeah, you are just pulling statements out of your brain and saying they are DBZ law.  Are you Akira Toriyama?  If not, silence.  ;)
 
(If you don't understand this scan, Gohan was able to push Cell's blast back to him...rather than exploding it like you claim SHOULD happen.  If two fighters are equal, they will have a beam struggle until the stronger one's beam hits the other, it doesnt EXPLODE prematurely...lol)
 
 3.  You claim,  "doesn't matter whether Gohan was trying to save the solar system or not. the blast should have leveled the solar system if it really was that powerful, yet it didn't. it wasn't a solar system buster. "
  
I bolded should because it is your downfall.  The fact that your #2 argument is proven wrong when you said forces HAVE to explode when they collide means #3 also fails as well, since #3 was based on #2.  
 
To make this simple for you, even though YOU think the solar system SHOULD be busted from Cell's blast that Gohan STOPPED (canon) it doesn't have to happen in DBZ canon that way.  Want to know why?  Because you arent the creator....he can do anything he wants with those energy blasts and at the end of the day the reader has to accept it.  Take up fan fiction if you want to change things.
 
4. You told me to, "get off DBZ's nuts. you have yet to prove any of your arguments with any scans to prove your claims."
 
Then argue about something you know about because DBZ isn't your strong suit.  Because all I have to do is link scans that defeat your ridiculous claims.
#44 Posted by CAPiTA (1520 posts) - - Show Bio
@Klandicar said:
"

 
1. um, no. the Spirit Bomb was capable of destroying a planet. it just so happened to have added effect with absolutely evil beings, and little effect on pure beings. even in DBZ non-canon, Goku had to use a universal version of it.
 
2. false. Cell got it off. Gohan just took the brunt of it. doesn't change the fact that a supposed "solar system buster" was unleashed yet it barely did any damage to the planet. and, no, Gohan didn't nullify it. even in DBZ, when two forces of energy collide, they both release their energy in a massive explosion. they don't simply diffuse or cancel each other out. this alone proves Cell's attack was not a solar system buster.
 
3. doesn't matter whether Gohan was trying to save the solar system or not. the blast should have leveled the solar system if it really was that powerful, yet it didn't. it wasn't a solar system buster.
 
get off DBZ's nuts. you have yet to prove any of your arguments with any scans to prove your claims. 
 
 
 


 1.  The spirit bomb against Buu relied on the Earth's energy.  Why should the Earth's energy alone destroy the solar system? There is also the matter of control these characters have.  For example, Destructo disks are condensed to cut...they don't explode.  The spirit bomb is specially made to destroy evil.  It doesn't need destructive feats.
 
2.  You claim  "even in DBZ, when two forces of energy collide, they both release their energy in a massive explosion. they don't simply diffuse or cancel each other out. this alone proves Cell's attack was not a solar system buster."  
 
 Not to embarrass you, but this is just your opinion.   Also contradicted by DBZ canon itself.
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/dragon-ball/chapter-dragon-ball-412/
 
So yeah, you are just pulling statements out of your brain and saying they are DBZ law.  Are you Akira Toriyama?  If not, silence.  ;)
 
 3.  You claim,  "doesn't matter whether Gohan was trying to save the solar system or not. the blast should have leveled the solar system if it really was that powerful, yet it didn't. it wasn't a solar system buster. "   I bolded should because it is your downfall.  The fact that your #2 argument is proven wrong when you said forces HAVE to explode when they collide means #3 also fails as well, since #3 was based on #2.    To make this simple for you, even though YOU think the solar system SHOULD be busted from Cell's blast that Gohan STOPPED (canon) it doesn't have to happen in DBZ canon that way.  Want to know why?  Because you arent the creator....he can do anything he wants with those energy blasts and at the end of the day the reader has to accept it.  Take up fan fiction if you want to change things.  4. You told me to, "get off DBZ's nuts. you have yet to prove any of your arguments with any scans to prove your claims."  Then argue about something you know about because DBZ isn't your strong suit.  Because all I have to do is link scans that defeat your ridiculous claims. "
1. everyone in DBZ says the Spirit Bomb has immense destructive power. who are you to tell them what the Spirit Bomb can and can't do? i'm well aware of certain Ki attacks being specifically designed to do one thing or another. the Spirit Bomb is designed to destroy, not cut. it can destroy the planet, not just evil, and it has so far been stated as the strongest attack in the series.
 
2. what does that prove? it proves Gohan's attack was bigger than Cell's "solar system buster," and look, the planet is still intact even though the explosion went off. way to fail at proving your point.
 
3. again, speculative. you're not the creator of DBZ. you don't know how he thinks any more than i do. this whole area is a moot point. feat for feat, though, DBZ hasn't shown anything to even put them at cosmic level.
 
4. you have yet to link scans to counteract any of my points, both in this thread, and other threads where you just didn't reply back after i provided scans proving my point. please, if you have a valid rebuttal, by all means, prove it. otherwise, you have no credibility.
#45 Posted by zachyhavik (168 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman xrays his shadow clones,  and see's that only one has bones. Naruto punches superman and breaks his knuckles. With a smile superman get's the submission by exhaling his frost breath and freezing naruto from the neck down.
#46 Edited by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

  
1. everyone in DBZ says the Spirit Bomb has immense destructive power. who are you to tell them what the Spirit Bomb can and can't do? i'm well aware of certain Ki attacks being specifically designed to do one thing or another. the Spirit Bomb is designed to destroy, not cut. it can destroy the planet, not just evil, and it has so far been stated as the strongest attack in the series.
 

 
Show me scans saying it is the MOST destructive attack like you claimed in your quote below.  You said it was the strongest and are implying that the strongest attack should blow up a solar system even when the hero is shooting it?  I guess your heroes would be villains if you wrote DBZ since they would kill everyone anyway by solar system busting.  Looks like you dodged the issue when I pointed out that the spirit bomb is not supposed to blow up solar systems but eradicate evil targets.  Can you back your earlier quote repeated below. 

 
 DBZ canon = Goku couldn't destroy the solar system with the strongest attack in the series   

I'm really thinking you are trolling because instead of proving it is the most destructive attack you are acting like I'm trying to change the manga, when I essentially explained to your clueless self that the spirit bomb is an attack designed to destroy evil (as in one individual), not destroy solar systems.  Anyway, next...

 2. what does that prove? it proves Gohan's attack was bigger than Cell's "solar system buster," and look, the planet is still intact even though the explosion went off. way to fail at proving your point.

The attack was turned back and vaporized Cell before Cell could use it on the earth/solar system.  Gohan didn't make an explosion with the energy BECAUSE Gohan didn't want to destroy the solar system.  Sheesh...you realize Gohan is the hero right?   No explosion went off, Cell got vaporized by the beam and it passed harmless off the Earth without exploding
 

3. again, speculative. you're not the creator of DBZ. you don't know how he thinks any more than i do. this whole area is a moot point. feat for feat, though, DBZ hasn't shown anything to even put them at cosmic level.


It isn't speculative.  You were proven wrong because you claimed their blasts always explode when they collide even in DBZ, but there are scans of beam struggles where the beam doesn't explode but rather get repelled back at whoever loses the struggle.
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=dragon-ball&chapter=dragon-ball-411&page_nr=13
 
 Instead of exploding the blast caves in and returns to Cell.  
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=dragon-ball&chapter=dragon-ball-231&page_nr=2
 
Vegeta and Goku locked in a beam struggle.  
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=dragon-ball&chapter=dragon-ball-231&page_nr=4
 
 
 http://www.mangavolume.com/index.php?serie=dragon-ball&chapter=dragon-ball-231&page_nr=6
 
BTW...Vegeta riding Goku's beam.  Wheres those explosions you are talking about...again?   Zzzz....zzzzz
 
 

 
4. you have yet to link scans to counteract any of my points, both in this thread, and other threads where you just didn't reply back after i provided scans proving my point. please, if you have a valid rebuttal, by all means, prove it. otherwise, you have no credibility.
 
 

What?  You lost every claim you made to the canon screens I've linked and you even attempted to make up your own DBZ rules.  Your direct quote below:


 even in DBZ, when two forces of energy collide, they both release their energy in a massive explosion. they don't simply diffuse or cancel each other out. this alone proves Cell's attack was not a solar system buster.

So wrong, the energy of one fighter pushes against the energy from the other until one gets hit by the beam (as shown by actual beam struggles in the manga which is > your suggestion).  No explosions necessary, just vaporizations (like cell dying).  All it proves is that Gohan and Cell had an energy struggle and Cell lost.  You want the solar system to blow up after all Gohan's hard work to stop Cell's solar system buster?  Your canon stinks and doesn't exist, sorry.  ;)
 
I guess you ultimately failed because you tried to apply some sort of real life science to a work of fiction.  The author can do whatever he wants with the energy in that Universe.  If he wants to make it collide with another beam of energy he can and does, he doesnt have to make it explode like you think it should.  Guess your opinion was just trumped by canon in the grand scheme of things.  Thought you would learn your lesson by now TBH.
#47 Posted by Jx4gz (1715 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman would slaughter SSJ Vegeto instantly
So I doubt Naruto stands a chance, although Naruto would probably give Vegeto a good fight

#48 Posted by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jx4gz said:
" Superman would slaughter SSJ Vegeto instantly So I doubt Naruto stands a chance, although Naruto would probably give Vegeto a good fight "
Vegeto is too high tier for cm.  Hes about equal to a Thanos with the power gem.
#49 Posted by Jx4gz (1715 posts) - - Show Bio

Vegeto isnt even class 100, 
Superman slaughters Vegeto, Naruto is probably equal to Vegeto

#50 Posted by Klandicar (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

What is class 100 when you can bust solar systems?