Manhunter cannot use telepathy or intangibility in this fight
Win by KO, Incapacitation, BFR or death
Fight takes place in Paris
Combatants start at opposite sides of the water
The original thread for this battle got deleted so unless there's one I didn't find with the search engine or this battle was deleted for a reason, I've resurrected it here to continue the debate for this encounter. Please keep things reasonable when debating on the thread and no breaking the site's rules and all that.
@immortal777: @darkazrael999: @dratini1331: @bigcimmerian: I might just do that guys, the main thing is that I was discussing this with someone who thinks Superman can win and decided to kickstart the thread again. But I'll take away TP and intangibility to make this fairer. Thanks for the feedback, I was rushing to make this and forgot about the evident advantages MM has over Superman.
@lvenger: Question? Can MM use his shape-shifting abilities to enhance his body's density and as a result, further increase his strength and durability?
Even with Intangibility or Telepathy Superman still wins, he's faster, more durable, stronger than Man-hunter, Superman also has strong will to keep him out, he's heat vision could still hit him going intangible, and other vision and senses powers will help out a lot in this fight, Martian Man-hunter goes down. Only thing he got going for him is Martian Vision, and supes can just fly out of the way.
i dont think MM has the feats of strength or speed that stand up next to Superman's. he's close but his high end feats dont compar to Superman's high end feats
Even with Intangibility or Telepathy Superman still wins, he's faster, more durable, stronger than Man-hunter, Superman also has strong will to keep him out, he's heat vision could still hit him going intangible, and other vision and senses powers will help out a lot in this fight, Martian Man-hunter goes down. Only thing he got going for him is Martian Vision, and supes can just fly out of the way.
1.Martian Manhunter has already mind-wiped Superman and Mind-Controlled him as he was dying.
2.Superboy Prime already tried, it didn't work well for him.
@lvenger: Question? Can MM use his shape-shifting abilities to enhance his body's density and as a result, further increase his strength and durability?
He can use his density control to do that, not necessarily shape shifting.
So this went from MMH vs Superman to Superman vs Superman? I mean, hasn't it been stated multiple times that MMH is as strong as Superman? And as fast? I suppose Supes has his training with Batman and Diana to help, but I feel as though MMH isn't exactly lacking in that area either.
I think that even without Intangibillity and telepathy J'onn would still have the upper hand and would eventually win.With a lot of problems but he would win.
Taking away a characters powers takes away the character. Superman would win under these circumstances.
I know but how else can this fight be made fair? I could keep morals on but eventually Manhunter would just mind wipe Superman which is something Clark has no defence for. If both saw the other as a threat that needed to be stopped, J'onn would wipe out the telepathy faster than a thought. Not to mention that in a morals off fight, J'onn could just remain untouchable by Superman and phase his vital organs out. Here this makes things fairer and debatable even if Superman does have slightly better physical feats.
J'onn still has the advantage of regen and shape shifting....
Exactly, his powerset is too damn wide.
True but if I took out regeneration or shapeshifting, there'd be massive complaints about making this a Superman vs Superman clone battle. This way, Superman's physical edge is offset by MM's few extra powers. I've tried to keep this thread controlled and reasonable so it won't end up as badly as the last one did. TBH, I'm surprised there wasn't extra threads I could bump.
@delta1938 As to what I was saying in the last thread, MM still has comparable physical stats to Superman and there's plenty of evidence to corroborate this. Now, as you can see from the remade thread, many people acknowledge that MM's TP and intangibility give him a massive edge in this fight so those have been nullified. Thus, this'll mostly be a physical fight between the two.
First up strength
Justice League #6: Fistfight with Captain Marvel when Batson was possessed by a sorcerer called the Gray Man. Note that the only power he uses here is brute strength. The fight probably would have been a lot easier if some phasing and shape-shifting had been tossed in, but writers rarely got creative with J'onn's powers back then. At any rate, Batson gets the advantage near the end until the possession ends, and then J'onn gets back up and knocks him out with a hard uppercut. It's possible and perhaps even logical to attribute the advantage Marvel acquired to the fact that J'onn was fighting two battles at once, not just one: while he was physically tussling with Billy he was simultaneously fighting (and winning) a psychic battle to free Marvel and Dr. Fate from the Gray Man's control. The last scan is a visual of how the Gray Man could slowly take control of the entire planet to put the feat into perspective. Managing to take control of Dr. Fate requires considerable psychic power as well.
Justice League Task Force #28: Hands Triumph the pink slip, the old fashioned way.
What, old school employers didn't beat their employee like a dog before firing him/her? Madness.
To put this into perspective, here are some of the things Triumph has done: knocking Maxima away with one punch and later taking on several members of the Justice League and winning; Superman needed help from Steel to finally beat him.
He could also draw upon the power of the entire planet's electromagnetic sphere, generate EMP's, manipulate technology and energy signals and amp his strength to the point where he could duke it out with folks like Kal-El. His powerset was essentially a Superman/Magneto hybrid with a few alterations here and there to reflect the electromagnetic origin of his abilities.
And he tosses buildings with ease whilst complaining about how people forget he's as powerful as Superman
Now for speed
JLA: Secret Files #1: Defuses a twister with his speed and later creates a substitute for uranium miners in his spare time. Because he can do stuff like that.
JLA #20: Taking action at speeds faster than thought alongside Superman, Flash and Hippolyta. They were moving so fast Orion, Barda, Steel and Kyle Rayner were standing still, although Hippolyta needed a speed boost from Wally since she's not as fast as her daughter.
JLA #57: Using his speed to blitz several towers on every continent and take out numerous White Martians in the space of a few seconds. These same Martians easily stomped every hero on Earth and were blitzing Wonder Woman and Green Lantern ---- but all of that is for the Generic Martian Capabilities section.
So this should show he's definitely fast enough to keep up with Superman. And I can post scans of him fighting evenly with the entire League on multiple occasions. Plus he still has
I haven't taken out all of J'onn's abilities everyone. Manhunter can still regenerate
and he can still shapeshift. Those are two things Superman can't do
Along with invisibility. So yeah he's still plenty of a match for Superman without TP or intangibility which is what I was discussing with you in the last thread.
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