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#1 Edited by Lvenger (18329 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Pre Flashpoint versions of characters
  • Morals off but combatants are not bloodlusted
  • Manhunter cannot use telepathy or intangibility in this fight
  • Win by KO, Incapacitation, BFR or death
  • Fight takes place in Paris
  • Combatants start at opposite sides of the water

The original thread for this battle got deleted so unless there's one I didn't find with the search engine or this battle was deleted for a reason, I've resurrected it here to continue the debate for this encounter. Please keep things reasonable when debating on the thread and no breaking the site's rules and all that.

#2 Posted by dondave (34431 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm gonna have to back the Jade Warrior

#3 Posted by SheenLantern (6224 posts) - - Show Bio

This has been done before, Superman has no way to win, it's a curbstomp in Manhunter's favour.

INB4L

#4 Posted by jashro44 (19605 posts) - - Show Bio

I think you should take away intangability and tp. Can't see supes winning otherwise.

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#5 Posted by Immortal777 (6886 posts) - - Show Bio

At least take away TP.

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#6 Posted by WarBlade539 (4497 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter makes Superman think he's a rubber ducky.

#7 Posted by Pokeysteve (8042 posts) - - Show Bio

Manhunter and effortlessly.

#8 Posted by Dratini1331 (6980 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter makes Superman think he's a rubber ducky.

#9 Posted by BigCimmerian (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter roflstomps.

#10 Posted by Lvenger (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777: @darkazrael999: @dratini1331: @bigcimmerian: I might just do that guys, the main thing is that I was discussing this with someone who thinks Superman can win and decided to kickstart the thread again. But I'll take away TP and intangibility to make this fairer. Thanks for the feedback, I was rushing to make this and forgot about the evident advantages MM has over Superman.

#11 Edited by WarBlade539 (4497 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Question? Can MM use his shape-shifting abilities to enhance his body's density and as a result, further increase his strength and durability?

#12 Posted by Neo_Prime666 (80 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with Intangibility or Telepathy Superman still wins, he's faster, more durable, stronger than Man-hunter, Superman also has strong will to keep him out, he's heat vision could still hit him going intangible, and other vision and senses powers will help out a lot in this fight, Martian Man-hunter goes down. Only thing he got going for him is Martian Vision, and supes can just fly out of the way.

#13 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

i dont think MM has the feats of strength or speed that stand up next to Superman's. he's close but his high end feats dont compar to Superman's high end feats

#14 Edited by Iragexcudder (4277 posts) - - Show Bio

Taking away a characters powers takes away the character. Superman would win under these circumstances.

#15 Posted by dondave (34431 posts) - - Show Bio

Even with Intangibility or Telepathy Superman still wins, he's faster, more durable, stronger than Man-hunter, Superman also has strong will to keep him out, he's heat vision could still hit him going intangible, and other vision and senses powers will help out a lot in this fight, Martian Man-hunter goes down. Only thing he got going for him is Martian Vision, and supes can just fly out of the way.

1.Martian Manhunter has already mind-wiped Superman and Mind-Controlled him as he was dying.

2.Superboy Prime already tried, it didn't work well for him.

@lvenger: Question? Can MM use his shape-shifting abilities to enhance his body's density and as a result, further increase his strength and durability?

He can use his density control to do that, not necessarily shape shifting.

#16 Posted by acano (37 posts) - - Show Bio

How does MM fare against heat vision? I know his weakness is fire but how does heat vision affect him?

#17 Posted by BigCimmerian (7851 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: In that case I'm not sure, maybe he can play mind games with Clark by shape shifting into Lois to catch him off guard lol.

#18 Edited by NoBody134 (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@acano said:

How does MM fare against heat vision? I know his weakness is fire but how does heat vision affect him?

SBP

#19 Posted by Immortal777 (6886 posts) - - Show Bio

@acano said:

How does MM fare against heat vision? I know his weakness is fire but how does heat vision affect him?

SBP

Prime also one shotted MMH with HV but that's neither here nor there.

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#20 Edited by NoBody134 (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@nobody134 said:

@acano said:

How does MM fare against heat vision? I know his weakness is fire but how does heat vision affect him?

SBP

Prime also one shotted MMH with HV but that's neither here nor there.

True

but i was talking about his heat vision and how it proved to be ineffective, not about who would win in a fight.

my main point is that if MM goes intangible superman can't touch him.

#21 Edited by Immortal777 (6886 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777 said:

@nobody134 said:

@acano said:

How does MM fare against heat vision? I know his weakness is fire but how does heat vision affect him?

SBP

Prime also one shotted MMH with HV but that's neither here nor there.

True

but i was talking about his heat vision and how it proved to be ineffective, not about who would win in a fight.

my main point is that if MM goes intangible superman can't touch him.

I get what you're saying but MMH can't go intangible here. Now that I think about Superman can go intangible as well.

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#22 Edited by hart7668 (2294 posts) - - Show Bio

So this went from MMH vs Superman to Superman vs Superman? I mean, hasn't it been stated multiple times that MMH is as strong as Superman? And as fast? I suppose Supes has his training with Batman and Diana to help, but I feel as though MMH isn't exactly lacking in that area either.

#23 Posted by NoBody134 (282 posts) - - Show Bio

@nobody134 said:

@immortal777 said:

@nobody134 said:

@acano said:

How does MM fare against heat vision? I know his weakness is fire but how does heat vision affect him?

SBP

Prime also one shotted MMH with HV but that's neither here nor there.

True

but i was talking about his heat vision and how it proved to be ineffective, not about who would win in a fight.

my main point is that if MM goes intangible superman can't touch him.

I get what you're saying but MMH can't go intangible here. Now that I think about Superman can go intangible as well.

Oh, didn't see the rules for this fight.

#24 Posted by Pokeysteve (8042 posts) - - Show Bio

With no intangibility or telepathy, Superman should win in a really good fight. Those two are pretty even.

#25 Posted by XiiX (7432 posts) - - Show Bio

With no intangibility or telepathy, Superman should win in a really good fight. Those two are pretty even.

#26 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (11786 posts) - - Show Bio

J'onn still has the advantage of regen and shape shifting....

#27 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

In the long run, MMH should take the win based on his power versatility, despite not having intangibility or telepathy.

#28 Edited by ComicStooge (12001 posts) - - Show Bio

With MM's two main advantages gone, I'd say Supes takes this after a difficult fight.

#29 Posted by patrat18 (8802 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes all the way.

#30 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that even without Intangibillity and telepathy J'onn would still have the upper hand and would eventually win.With a lot of problems but he would win.

#31 Posted by AmazonieSPL (290 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

Do you hate paris or what -_-

AmazonieSPL

#32 Posted by Lvenger (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

Taking away a characters powers takes away the character. Superman would win under these circumstances.

I know but how else can this fight be made fair? I could keep morals on but eventually Manhunter would just mind wipe Superman which is something Clark has no defence for. If both saw the other as a threat that needed to be stopped, J'onn would wipe out the telepathy faster than a thought. Not to mention that in a morals off fight, J'onn could just remain untouchable by Superman and phase his vital organs out. Here this makes things fairer and debatable even if Superman does have slightly better physical feats.

#33 Posted by Lvenger (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

I haven't taken out all of J'onn's abilities everyone. Manhunter can still regenerate

and he can still shapeshift. Those are two things Superman can't do

#34 Posted by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

J'onn still has the advantage of regen and shape shifting....

Exactly, his powerset is too damn wide.

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#35 Posted by Lvenger (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

@ancient_0f_days said:

J'onn still has the advantage of regen and shape shifting....

Exactly, his powerset is too damn wide.

True but if I took out regeneration or shapeshifting, there'd be massive complaints about making this a Superman vs Superman clone battle. This way, Superman's physical edge is offset by MM's few extra powers. I've tried to keep this thread controlled and reasonable so it won't end up as badly as the last one did. TBH, I'm surprised there wasn't extra threads I could bump.

#36 Posted by Lvenger (18329 posts) - - Show Bio

@delta1938 As to what I was saying in the last thread, MM still has comparable physical stats to Superman and there's plenty of evidence to corroborate this. Now, as you can see from the remade thread, many people acknowledge that MM's TP and intangibility give him a massive edge in this fight so those have been nullified. Thus, this'll mostly be a physical fight between the two.

First up strength

Justice League #6: Fistfight with Captain Marvel when Batson was possessed by a sorcerer called the Gray Man. Note that the only power he uses here is brute strength. The fight probably would have been a lot easier if some phasing and shape-shifting had been tossed in, but writers rarely got creative with J'onn's powers back then. At any rate, Batson gets the advantage near the end until the possession ends, and then J'onn gets back up and knocks him out with a hard uppercut. It's possible and perhaps even logical to attribute the advantage Marvel acquired to the fact that J'onn was fighting two battles at once, not just one: while he was physically tussling with Billy he was simultaneously fighting (and winning) a psychic battle to free Marvel and Dr. Fate from the Gray Man's control. The last scan is a visual of how the Gray Man could slowly take control of the entire planet to put the feat into perspective. Managing to take control of Dr. Fate requires considerable psychic power as well.

Justice League Task Force #28: Hands Triumph the pink slip, the old fashioned way.

What, old school employers didn't beat their employee like a dog before firing him/her? Madness.

To put this into perspective, here are some of the things Triumph has done: knocking Maxima away with one punch and later taking on several members of the Justice League and winning; Superman needed help from Steel to finally beat him.

He could also draw upon the power of the entire planet's electromagnetic sphere, generate EMP's, manipulate technology and energy signals and amp his strength to the point where he could duke it out with folks like Kal-El. His powerset was essentially a Superman/Magneto hybrid with a few alterations here and there to reflect the electromagnetic origin of his abilities.

And he tosses buildings with ease whilst complaining about how people forget he's as powerful as Superman

Now for speed

JLA: Secret Files #1: Defuses a twister with his speed and later creates a substitute for uranium miners in his spare time. Because he can do stuff like that.

JLA #20: Taking action at speeds faster than thought alongside Superman, Flash and Hippolyta. They were moving so fast Orion, Barda, Steel and Kyle Rayner were standing still, although Hippolyta needed a speed boost from Wally since she's not as fast as her daughter.

JLA #57: Using his speed to blitz several towers on every continent and take out numerous White Martians in the space of a few seconds. These same Martians easily stomped every hero on Earth and were blitzing Wonder Woman and Green Lantern ---- but all of that is for the Generic Martian Capabilities section.

So this should show he's definitely fast enough to keep up with Superman. And I can post scans of him fighting evenly with the entire League on multiple occasions. Plus he still has

@lvenger said:

I haven't taken out all of J'onn's abilities everyone. Manhunter can still regenerate

and he can still shapeshift. Those are two things Superman can't do

Along with invisibility. So yeah he's still plenty of a match for Superman without TP or intangibility which is what I was discussing with you in the last thread.