Morals off. Superman is new 52. The fight takes place on King Kai's planet (a much bigger version of it.)
Superman vs Juggernaut
@nickras said:
@realitywarper said:
@tyger said:
@realitywarper: Hulk's first fight with Juggernaut, he grabbed him by the eyeholes in his helmet and spun him until the helmet snapped and Juggernaut went flying.
And Superman is plenty fast enough to make a pool of quick drying cement, stand in front of it, and as Juggernaut unstoppably runs to him, he sidesteps and Jugg's gets another cement bath.
Superman isn't a fast fighter.
If you want to see one go read a manga.
And Juggernaut is strong enough to utterly destroy Superman.
Magical hits bypasses his durability.
Magic attacks bypassing Superman's durability is often missinterpreted. Magic attacks work on Supes in the same way as others with no resistance to magic, but his standart durability is so high that it's much more noticable. Has Juggernaut "utterly destroyed" a character with high standart durability, but no resistance to magic?
Actually it doesn't.
Superman don't beneficiate of his enhanced durability has simple magic teeth cuts him to ribbon :
Deflecting a single attack don't makes you a super-fast fighter.
Wolverine avoided / deflected Cyclop's optic blast which moves at lightspeed.
The difference between those two characters is that Superman is supposed to that kind of stuff, and he got many instances supporting said feat, whereas Wolverine has many feats that contradicts to blocking lasers. It's not a good example, because that's how Superman is supposed to be, so there's really nothing to have a debate about.
That's more a question of skill & anticipation in order to act in the proper timing.
Superman did it through speed, because he was unaware that the opponent he was facing had that kind of power.
Gallery
He outpaced and deflected light.
@captain_batman_ftw said:
Deflecting a single attack don't makes you a super-fast fighter.
Wolverine avoided / deflected Cyclop's optic blast which moves at lightspeed.
The difference between those two characters is that Superman is supposed to that kind of stuff, and he got many instances supporting said feat, whereas Wolverine has many feats that contradicts to blocking lasers. It's not a good example, because that's how Superman is supposed to be, so there's really nothing to have a debate about.
That's more a question of skill & anticipation in order to act in the proper timing.
Superman did it through speed, because he was unaware that the opponent he was facing had that kind of power.
Gallery
He outpaced and deflected light.
That shows that Superman has a better perception of speed & reflexes than Wolverine but we already knows that.
You can notice that Superma blocked one attack but didn't avoid the others.
I invite you to read this very good thread :
http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2m4ov3/meta_the_nature_of_speed/
I'm familiar with this as it is part of the combat mechanics of the roleplaying game GURPS and I'm a regular reader from ages.
- Reflexes: The time a character takes to perceive and react to external stimuli is their reaction time. Their reflexes is that, and their ability to move their body in said time. Many characters have these twitch reflexes that allow them to dodge bullets, but who are by no means faster than the speed of sound. It has the sub-category of...
- Perception/Observation Speed: The speed at which a character can perceive events.
- Striking Speed: The speed a character can perform attacks, most notably the speed they can attack with their limbs.
- Recovery Speed: The speed that a character can recover from their attacks, motions, etc. On many characters this will match their striking speed; however, some characters are capable of specific attacks that break this mold. An example would be Gomu Gomu Gatling.
What show the Superman's feat :
1) He is capable to perceive and react to something moving at lightspeed.
2) He is not capable to block / avoid several attacks moving at lightspeed then his striking and recovery speeds don't match it.
Here again, one may proceed by elimination to dermine the limits of Superman's recovery and attack speed.
Comic Book characters rarely emphasis on those characteristic.
It's more proper to Mangas characters.
@realitywarper said:
@sgu823 said:
@realitywarper: Cyclops' optic blast don't move at "the speed of light", where did you get that from? Also, you're crazy if you think Spider-man is faster than the guy who managed to keep up with and tag (albeit with just his finger) the Flash.
http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2m4ov3/meta_the_nature_of_speed/
READ.
Yes, Cyclop's optic blast moves at the speed of light but you can avoid them if you anticipate the moment where Cyclop's will shoot and go out of the way of the Optic Blast.
It's called aim dodge and it requires a lot of skill and anticipation to move out of the way in the right timing.
What is that supposed to prove? Cyclops' beams have never been fast as light in the comics. Find me a scan where he or someone credible says "wow, Optic beams are so fast, they move at light speed". Also, find one that contradicts this:
That's not anticipation, that's Cyclops firing a beam from behind, without Logan knowing, and Logan sensing the pressure a split second before ducking (and saving Storm). If it were fast as light, Logan would have been tagged before his senses could even register the blast.
@sgu823 said:
Cyclop's Optic Blast :
Gallery
Yes it moves at lightspeed.
Wolverine Vs Cyclops
Gallery
1) Aim dodge 2 times then deflect the optic blast.
2) Aim doge it two times again.
The Nature Of Speed for Dummies.
READ.
http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2m4ov3/meta_the_nature_of_speed/
Yes, Cyclop's optic blast moves at the speed of light but you can avoid them if you anticipate the moment where Cyclop's will shoot and go out of the way of the Optic Blast.
It's called aim dodge and it requires a lot of skill and anticipation to move out of the way in the right timing.
@realitywarper said:
@sgu823 said:
Cyclop's Optic Blast :
Gallery
Yes it moves at lightspeed.
Wolverine Vs Cyclops
Gallery
1) Aim dodge 2 times then deflect the optic blast.
2) Aim doge it two times again.
The Nature Of Speed for Dummies.
READ.
http://www.reddit.com/r/respectthreads/comments/2m4ov3/meta_the_nature_of_speed/
Yes, Cyclop's optic blast moves at the speed of light but you can avoid them if you anticipate the moment where Cyclop's will shoot and go out of the way of the Optic Blast.
It's called aim dodge and it requires a lot of skill and anticipation to move out of the way in the right timing.
It's called hyperbole. That's why I asked for credible scans. Remember, this is the same guy whose beams can purportedly "punch a hole through a mountain" and "split a small planet in half" but have yet to display any feats close to that. Likewise, his beams have never displayed fast as light feats.
If you looked at the scan I provided you can clearly see that Logan is completely unaware of the beam until a split second before it's about to hit. There's no "aim dodging" involved. Are you going to say Wolverine has fast-as-light reflexes, or that he's faster than Superman?
And please, keep linking to that thread without explaining how it's relevant to your argument, I know it's difficult articulating your own ideas in that tiny little head of yours. It's about as meaningful as me going:
READ. THERE'S STUFF ABOUT SPEED, IT PROBABLY HELPS MY CASE SOMEHOW.
https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf
Log in to comment