superman vs goku the final battle

@comicstooge: pikkon

@russellmania77: Because he can punch holes in reality... I think.

@comicstooge: I don't think he can teleport anyone to hell. The only time he went to hell was in GT and I don't know the context behind it.... and we all know GT is non-canon.

Because SBP is a nonsensical PIS machine, honestly. Either that or the fact that he's immune to reality warping might have something to do with it.

Why would Superman let Goku let him destroy the device. Given the fact that he could easily have been sun dipping in a blue sun for a year, his reflexes should easily allow him to avoid anything Goku throws at him.

Regardless, Goku has no counter for the Cosmic Armor.

@reikai: Shenron is a character from DBZ. He does not exist in real life. Therefore he is a character.

Theoretically he can teleport to hell in that he could teleport to King Kai's planet being that hell is only a few feet below King Kai's planet. But that is just speculation. Also Goku doesn't need to teleport anyone to hell to BFR. Stranding him in Other World would suffice.

And Superman can toss him out to space or what our argument was earlier, put him in the Phantom Zone.

Shenron isn't a character. It is the manifestation of the Magic within the Dragonballs. He's like a computer interface, only magic. Using the dragonballs is no different from taking a knife out of the kitchen. It's like saying Supes can't use the suns because God created them and they don't belong to him.

And now for a Public Service Announcement.

i would never bring up GT, it is a crappy shame upon dbz. but i was talking about after the cell saga but that was kinda stupid for me to mention in the first place, so i deleted it after i posted it. @comicstooge: and ya ok you wanna use stuff that superman doesnt even use ok we can play that game than, in that case goku can use whats left of the Z sword and i.t. (sense thats quicker than superspeed) and stab superman with it

And for Goku to make that wish, he has to speak with that magic in a form he understands, which is Shenron, who is a character in the DBZ-verse...

@batman242: and goku would stand there and say "ok superman hit me with the projector"

Goku would win and here's why.

1. Superman can't move FTL in an instant. Goku can. Goku easily takes him in combat speed.

2. Superman can't generate and absorb sunlight instantly. Goku can use ki to up his powers and he has his Super Saiyan forms as well.

3. Superman is just not as destructive as Goku. Goku can destroy Solar Systems in SSJ2 and is possibly multi solar system buster in SSJ3. If we bring in SSJG in the equation, then he is possibly a galaxy buster. (IDK it's debatable.)

4. Superman is physically stronger than Goku in lifting strength, but Goku has a harder hitting power.

Proof: Frieza had the durability of a planet (Namek) Further Proof: Frieza kicked away a planet buster from Vegeta without using ki.

Cell had Frieza Cells and his Cell Jrs had his cells too, which means they had his durability as well. So, when Gohan went SSJ2, he vaporized them easily with his punches. Majin Vegeta stated Goku was stronger than Gohan, so his punches were harder than Gohan's which could shatter planets as proven by the Cell Jrs and Gohan SSJ2. So Goku can punch as hard as Supes can. BUT, he gets 4x stronger in SSJ3 and 10x stronger in SSJ4. So in SSJ4, his punches have the power to destroy 40 planets.

5. Superman's heat vision possibly wouldn't entirely work against Goku because he has dealt with Nova Shenron and he could make his blasts as hot as the sun. It'd probably still hurt him, but he wouldn't win by that entirely.

6. Superman going into the theta state could be on par with Goku's ki awareness, so in that case, it's a tie.

7. Superman's pressure point techniques would not work on Goku. When he was a kid, he was in a fight with Tien and he was being hit in many pressure points to no effect. It could work maybe in his base form, but I doubt it would work if he went SSJ.

8. Superman's molecular punches would not work on Goku unless he was already tired and had his durability decreased. Goku's too fast for him in that case. If his durability was down, then probably, but other than that, no chance.

9. Superman's punches wouldn't affect Goku. Unless he had a sundip. Goku blocked a sword that could slice up Frieza easily with his finger. And Frieza had the durability of a planet. It's not the sword itself, it's the force behind the sword. Which would be enough force to destroy a planet. But a lot of mistakes people make with Goku's durability is that he uses ki to enhance it. If he had no ki, then Supes destroys him in a massive rapestomp. Other than that, no.

I'm almost sure they can be tossed into the Phantom Zone too.

@reikai: go to this Official DBZ website. http://www.dragonballz.com/ tell me what category you find Shenron listed under.

Spoiler Alert: Shenron is listed under characters

If you won't agree with the official website then I don't know what else to say

Is this reaaaaally the final battle?

And for Goku to make that wish, he has to speak with that magic in a form he understands, which is Shenron, who is a character in the DBZ-verse...

Outside help would be if someone did something specifically for Goku. The Dragonballs are there for anyone to use. Goku isn't asking the dragon for help, he's making a wish after completing a required task. There is no choice. It doesn't choose what wishes to grant. It can only do things within its power.

Pretty much what this battle comes down to is whether if a Goku who has trained 20+ could defeat a sundipped supes.

@batman242: im saying goku wouldnt just let him

@celtic: lol of course not

@pooty: lol he abvously a character

Can this thread please be locked? I know I'm a bit of hypocrite having already debated in it, but c'mon...

@pooty

Dude, he's right. Educate yourself. Shenron is literally just an extension of Kami. It's why he disappeared when Piccolo fused with him, and his powers for granting wishes could not exceed Kami's own power.

And, how can you think Goku has never defeated anyone without outside help? That's just ridiculous.

but the title said last final battle

D:

y would they lie to me?

@celtic: well rumor is that he hates everything irish... including celtics :0

@limpoyzloan: i'm not an expert on either person but i will throw in my 2 cents for you to correct if needed:

1) How does moving instantly help? Does he use instant transmission in battle?

2) Superman has a year prep in this battle so he can sundip for a year. and he could sun dip in a blue sun which would just be crazy power.

3) Usually we go by on panel feats and Goku has never been shown to be a galaxy buster etc. i've seen the math on why he should be able to but it has never been shown

4) See answer to number 3.

5) I don't know how hot Nova Shenron was. does it ever state how hot he was?

6) I don't know what theta is. what is it?

7) Goku has pressure points even in SSG mode. Bills used it on Goku. Tien just wasn't strong enough to affect him

8) Superman has molecular punches? Give an example please

9) I think normal superman could hurt him plenty. but with a year prep he could be sundipped.

If this thread gets locked please PM me, i would still like the answers. thank you