@jashro44: Doomsday breaks out of it, exactly. How come Goku isn't just going to bust out of the bear hug? How come Goku is going to let someone bear hug and fly him somewhere he doesn't want to go? Why isn't Goku not going to instant transmit himself. There are 2 examples here that have been shown of him transmitting without putting 2 fingers on his forehead. Sure, this is not accepted as canon, but if Goku instant transmits he could technically fight like this in addition to his speed. He can always be in a blind spot to an opponent.
I just don't see or understand the possibility of this happening. Do you see the bear hugging really working? Again, it's not like Superman instantly goes FTL in flight, and Goku's speed is no slouch either.
@SHARKBEARAGATOR: Superman uses pressure point techniques in combat, and rarely ever kicks. This puts Goku at a massive advantage, as he has his full body to work with.
Goku is an amazing martial arts fighter and one of the best ever in Dragon Ball Z, ever since Goku was a kid he trained in martial arts. He has been trained by the Legendary Martial arts Master, Master Roshi in the Turtle School and has been trained by the God King Kai as an adult. Furthermore Goku trained by himself for tournaments and has self-taught himself in martial arts when he left Master Roshi.
Furthermore Goku is a Sayain meaning it's in his instinct to fight, he actually enjoys it. This is a factor because he would enjoy fighting Superman and wouldn't be disouraged.
Kami a god praises Goku on his fighting sense, and that he always evolves and learns the opponents techniques. He would have no trouble doing it to Superman.
God is literally praising Goku for his fighting and tactics.
Goku is a martial arts master and is constantly learning, and always finding out a weakness in his enemy. Goku thinks on his feet in battle, this is seen when he exhales strongly to change the trajectory of his descent and throw off his opponent, Chappa O at the 22nd Budokai.
Goku was able to actually invent a new martial arts style based on animal mimicry during the heat of battle, to counter Muten Roshi's Sui Ken (drunkenfist) at the 21st Budokai. In addition to fighting entire battles at very high speeds and blocking, parrying and countering attacks with blinding speed.
Goku also utilizes grappling moves in certain situations
Kid Goku smart enough Exhales to stop his trajectory
Counters Master Roshi's Drunkfist with his Animal mimicry
Grappling move " Wall of Jericho" on Tien and the "Full Nelson" on Raditz
Some other scans of him fighting.
His training has been well developed.
Goku has been a martial artist all his life and that's the only thing he has known to do. Training and honing his skill when he was kid, to an adult.
Goku was trained by martial arts master, Master Roshi, Self-Taught himself, trained under Mr.Popo and Kami, and trained under King Kai.
Kid Goku almost had a tie with Master Roshi ("An Invincible martial arts Master")
Taught by Popo and Kami to fight with his senses, and feel the atmosphere.
Trained by King Kai
Furthermore Goku fights martial arts through instinct and feels the life force(KI) of his opponent when he cannot see them, and feels the movement and anticipates the attacks of who he is fighting.
Feeling the air currents when he can't see, and determining Yakons moves.
Powerpole can cut swords.
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Even as a Kid he can easily read the movements of a martial arts master and counter him
Not only can Goku adapt his fighting style, but he learns as the battle goes on. He notices the various techniques of the opponent he's fighting.
in Infinite Crisis, and they go blow for blow, with actually Wonder Woman using her martial arts to get the advantage.
Wonder Woman who is weaker then Superman, and has less abilities held her own against him when he was bloodlusted, because she was a superior fighter.
Goku is a superior fighter to Superman which will give him a giant advantage in the fight.
Wonder Woman even addresses Superman does not react to punches like she does, because he's not a martial artist.
Goku has been a martial artist all his life and that's the only thing he has known to do. Training and honing his skill when he was kid, to an adult.
Easily beating Recoome for letting providing an opening.
Tricking Nappa into a fit of rage so he fights sloppy.
Realizing Frieza cannot feel KI so he uses stealth attacks.
Goku is an extremely better martial artist than Superman. Superman has been taught some fighting styles but never has dedicated his life to it like Goku.
I have no doubt in my mind that Goku is a far better fighter than Superman, I know he is. But he is still very skilled in combat and fighting styles despite not devoting his life to it.
He has expertise in fighting and shouldn't be taken lightly in combat as even Wonder Woman who is a master of combat knows she can not compete with him.
Despite his lesser expertise in fighting he should still not be underestimated.
I don't understand how your calculating instant tranmissions travel speed. It's just that, suppose to be instant. Also, in that video, Goku doesn't have his finger on his forehead, it's where he had it, just in the air. Look at the manga yourself, he didn't have his finger on his head, and he already knows where Roshi lives. You pretty much supplied more proof that he doesn't need his finger on his head. He did it with cell and he did it right in your own example. Written in the original manga, he didn't ount down from 3, he just left and came back instantly.
I'm not calculating instant transmission speed. I'm saying that Goku's instant transmission meant that Yamcha remarked how Roshi's island was 7000 miles away which shows Goku would have taken a while to reach there via flight. I'm showing in terms of travel speed, Goku is slower than Superman.
But I need to do some more thinking on this. I've sort of wanted anime vs comic battles allowed and now they are, I need some more thought on the matter, particularly this one. Superman has the strength and durability, Goku has the energy projection and skill and I just need some more research on speed.
I don't understand how your calculating instant tranmissions travel speed. It's just that, suppose to be instant. Also, in that video, Goku doesn't have his finger on his forehead, it's where he had it, just in the air. Look at the manga yourself, he didn't have his finger on his head, and he already knows where Roshi lives. You pretty much supplied more proof that he doesn't need his finger on his head. He did it with cell and he did it right in your own example. Written in the original manga, he didn't ount down from 3, he just left and came back instantly.
I'm not calculating instant transmission speed. I'm saying that Goku's instant transmission meant that Yamcha remarked how Roshi's island was 7000 miles away which shows Goku would have taken a while to reach there via flight. I'm showing in terms of travel speed, Goku is slower than Superman.
But I need to do some more thinking on this. I've sort of wanted anime vs comic battles allowed and now they are, I need some more thought on the matter, particularly this one. Superman has the strength and durability, Goku has the energy projection and skill and I just need some more research on speed.
It's not that black and white. Think about it, Frieza survived a planet exploding on him chopped in half and beaten to a pulp, something that far surpasses Superman's durability. And take into account Frieza has so much less durability then Goku it's hilarious.
And yes Superman is way faster then Goku in travel speed, but Goku is faster in combat. Also Yamcha didn't know about Goku's SSJ or anything of his speed or power.
And Goku doesn't have lifting feats, he trains with weights to tone his body and increase KI, but not build muscle mass and strength. His strength comes from his amazing striking power, which caauses earthquakes and shockswaves tear apart the whole planet.
@SlimJ87D: My mistake I thought you were saying superman never attempted the tactic on doomsday.
@SHARKBEARAGATOR: I will look for the scan later. I thought I saw a scan where freeza cut planet Namek in half during his fight with freeza all though I could be mistaken. All though I believe Tales of bardock has made freiza blowing up planet vegeta canon.
Radditz also dodged Piccolo's attack that blew up the moon in a few seconds. Also note that Piccolo at his weakest in the series was already busted the moon which is about 1/100 of the earth. Compare that to their power levels, fight speeds, etc later.
And remember the fights in DBZ most often times can't be seen by normal eyes.
I don't think Superman has the actual speed, thought process, etc to pull off such a move against Goku. But these are all low end feats I posted, the characters only got stronger and faster. Almost every story arc it got to the point where the characters couldn't really see what the stronger characters were doing and they were much stronger and faster than they are in these scans.
@Everyone else When I first joined the forum, I use to think DBZ characters lost because I thought Superman honestly was a FTL guy and did everything before light could go from a bulb to wall until I started to do tons and tons of research and realized that there was never any proof. Then I went back and researched the things that were happening in DBZ and realized they too were awesomely fast, if Picollo could shoot and blow up the moon that fast and characters have dodged his attacks, then I realized that Goku and Superman were really close, and that there is more evidence that Goku is stronger, faster, more skilled etc according to my research.
Of course my research is incomplete, and I haven't found all the answers I have hoped for. That's why I'm addicted to the battle forums honestly. I could be completely wrong on the subject of the matter and that's the fun part. Learning something I never knew from someone else.
@SlimJ87D: I will say as far as physical strength goes, there's no real proof that Goku is stronger than him. Especially with Superman just bench pressing the weight of the entire earth for five days sun deprived. I read that issue and that's not taken out of context, he actually does that. Goku never has shown physical strength comparable to that. Of course, strength doesn't always win the battle, right?
Two things I want to address: 1. People will often site the 40 ton thing on Goku's limbs and they low ball him with that. But there are 2 variables that are not taken into account here: A. We have to realize that even though he has 40 tons on him, he's punching and kicking at super speeds that we can't even see. So there's no evidence as to how fast Goku is moving here, all we know is that he's throwing dozens of punches that the human eye can't perceive. Remember the guy trained and moved easily in 100 gravity (making him weigh arond 8 tons) before the Freeza saga and yet he was training with just 10 tons before the 40 ton thing? Which brings me to my next point.
B. They never said if it was "mass" or "weight." Here's a physics lesson. Mass is a unit of how much density volume something is. Weight is your mass times the gravity on the planet you are on. Therefore we actually don't know if it's 40 tons of mass and the gravity can be X10 to X100. Because Goku was easily training with around 8 to 10 tons before the Freeza saga, it really doesn't make sense that he was training with 10 tons of weight. And again, we don't know how fast he was punching and moving at.
There's no real conclusion that could be said about this. We don't know how fast Goku was actually battling and moving. And we don't know if it was mass or weight. There's arguments to support both sides here.
2. People want to throw out scaling because they only believe things that actually happen on panel. So to suggest that Goku's strength, speed, etc don't scale along with his power level because there is no evidence is due to people not opening up their eyes and reading into the evidence. There is plenty of evidence that scaling makes sense in the DBZ universe. Countless times we have seen a character with a higher power level outperform another character in speed and strength. Countless times we have seen characters get a higher power level that it causes characters with lower power levels to not be able to perceive the battle that is happening in front of them. Scaling happens throughout the manga and you can see it right before your eyes. The feat and evidence of it happening is what you are reading exactly.
His punches are powerful enough to launch Lobo into orbit and if memory serves me right, Lobo had to stop himself or else he would've kept on "orbiting the planet". I've never seen anything like that in DBZ.
ANND...
His speed (while in combat) is also up there or better, vibrating himself so fast punches phase right through him or becoming invisible, and the above scans with the probe is pretty interesting. Judging by the art and what's going on, it looks like Superman is incapacitating the probe while beating it simultaneously. If I'm correct, that's Flash level stuff.
That's because it was a concentrated energy wave. Most people tend not to look at it that way and misconstrue the showing. Basically, DBZ characters who have massive energy-outputs hold back and through control are able to concentrate their energy for specific purposes. It's unconfirmed but it's a theory.
Fat Buu was weaker than Kid Buu, as Kid Buu was the most powerful in terms of ferociousness and instability. Fat Buu is weaker because the Kai he fought was chubby and weaker than the other Kais. He became weaker in power because of that absorption. These were stated by Supreme Kai.
You've stated lowballing twice. I assume you're voting for Superman? Where I don't think you're lowballing DBZ, I do think you're posting subtle hints of it. Lol. Not always bad, just tweaked.
First off, please do not disrespect me dude. I haven't said anything to lowball anyone. The points I made were to show how easy it would be for a person to nitpick at DBZ the same what people have done so thus far at Superman.
Second. What does theory really count for? Not much to be honest. But lest stick with simple logic. Concentrated or not, where did all that energy go? Did it suddenly just peacefully dissipate into nothingness not even scratching the planet. Final Flash made it clear of the planet. Those where supposed to bust entire systems and they didn't even leave earth. When Goku and Vegeta locked beams the very first time he was cracking the ground around him from the push back. How many times more powerful what that beam? I'm not low balling, I'm simply saying certain things don't make sense
Another example of this is Ice freezing Goku or him being Burned by Nova. But those beams at cause massive explosions don't even leave as much as a friction burn on him. Goku can sense power levels across the galaxy but gets stealth attacked???? by an energy attack??? I'm only trying to say that for all the scans of Superman not being as strong or not being as fast as Goku, there are plenty of moments where one could say WTF if Goku is supposed to be FTL.
Prime example is him failing to save his family before kid buu busted Earth. Flash has saved over a million people before a bomb went off. He's stomp events in different cities at the same time. And superman is said to have raced and kept up with him. Goku at FTL should have been able to save his family and still have time to punch kid buu in the jaw before the blast even left his hands.
Also, Goku flat out said that kid buu is weaker than he was. What makes him more dangerous is that he jokes less and kills more unlike every other version of him, Kid Buu just killed. That is what made him a bigger problem. Not that he was stronger.
All in all, if you think I'm hint it, you think I'm doing it and I'm not, I'd just like for this to be actually worth the time, but it won't be because no one is going to change their mind. Hell, I actually used to believe Goku could beat Clark. Then Nova burned him and Ice froze him. Those beams didn't seem to move any faster than Clarks heat vision that has reheated a planet core. That would kill Goku out right. He his flash froze entire areas before with his breath. Kinda feeling like that will kill Goku out right also.
@RudeBomberBoy01: If memory serves me correctly, Lobo would of flung out of the orbit and kept going due to intertia. Goku striking power in SSJ is enough to harm Superman. In SSj3 his blows are enough to punch back a blast that destroyed a 1/10 of the Earth and made the Watchtower (so high that no plane could fly to it) rumble.
Another thing is even with Frieza planet level durability the Kai's could kill him with 1 blow.
This was confirmed in the manga, and the anime as Supreme Kai explained just how strong the each Kai was. Taken straight from the manga book:
Now being able to fell Frieza with one blow takes someone of planet cracking strength as Frieza is immensely durable.
And as we all know Super Saiyan 3 Goku is stronger then all of the Kai's as he was able to take on Kid Buu and could of beat him at full power, while the Kais were just killed.
I'd say Goku due to a better variety of techniques, along with better striking power and combat speed. But this will never end and you will all soon come to realize this.
I have no doubt it will really come down to Goku's techniques and his astronomical power in comparison to Superman.
Like Goku's Shunkan Idō (Instant Transmission). Many people think it takes a giant deal of concentration and he wouldn't be able to use it in a fight, however this is completely wrong. Now Instant transmission isn't a speed feat, but it's very very useful in battle.
Dodging Cell's blast with little to no concentration and attacks at an opening
So as you can see the instant transmission is very useful and Goku has trained with it so much he can use it on a wim. He can use this technique against Superman to dodge attacks, clear in for openings, get the drop on Superman. Even if the planet explodes Goku can teleport to a distant planet or across dimensions without difficulty.
Goku has trained to sense the planets life force (energy), ranging from planets, water, the core, the sky and clouds, even animals.
And Goku's Shunkan Idō (Instant Transmission) relies on sensing the life force and instantly teleporting to or near it. This conclude's that Goku can teleport anywhere on the planet making him much more versatile, fast and unpredictable in the fight vs Superman.
Now another factor of why Goku would win is his insane power and striking damage. For example Goku fought Frieza an extremely durable villain who can survive a great deal. Some examples
It completely rips Cells body apart. This concludes that Goku's Kamehameha >> Final Flash. And the best part is Goku wasn't anywhere near his power at the end of DBZ or DBGT.
And people say "Oh Goku needs time to charge his attacks" well yes but Goku can charge up his attacks while fighting.
And Yes Goku's astronomical power would put down Superman, as Clark has been defeated by people who can't produce the same planet busting attacks Goku's got.
And none of these were with magic, just brute force.
However Superman is mostly a brawler and doesn't have the skills to combat martial arts masters. For example Wonder woman who is -Weaker
-Slower in flight speed (Only Supersonic/Hypersonic)
-Less abilities
-Less durability
However due to her having amazing combat skills and speed she goes toe to toe with a bloodlusted Superman(who thinks Wonder Woman is Doomsday) in Infinite Crisis, and they go blow for blow, with actually Wonder Woman using her martial arts to get the advantage.
Furthermore Goku fights martial arts through instinct and feels the life force(KI) of his opponent when he cannot see them, and feels the movement and anticipates the attacks of who he is fighting.
Feeling the air currents when he can't see, and determining Yakons moves.
Depends on the version of Superman being used. Superman from the Silver Age or the first or fourth movie are all near infinitely more powerful than everyone in dragonballs history combined. SSJ4 Gogeta would be an ant by comparison. However, after the silver age era Supermans powers were retconned and he was severely depowered. By this point, He would likely not survive a Kamehameha from Master Roshi in the early years of Dragonball where he incinerated the Moon. A power level of 120 can destroy the Moon and vaporize it. 1200 can destroy the Earth in the same fashion. By the end of GT, their power levels were in the billions and only Silver Age Era incarnations of Superman would be able to defeat DBZ fighters. Not only defeat them, but without thinking twice and the battle being immensely unfair.
Their physical strength is 0.00001% of their Energy Outputs. They can hardly lift a few thousand or million tons and toe to toe with Thor or Hulk in his strongest form, SSj3 Goku would be comparable. Against Superman in post silver age, everyone would lose a 1v1 in brute force without speed blitz, a raw wrestling match would go to a number of marvel / dc characters over SSj3 gotenks or Mystic Gohan. Its their Energy output that would vaporize pretty much anyone you can name.
power level of 120 vaporizes the moon, imagine what a few billion could do. It would destroy Galactus without much effort.
hmmmm dont think ive ever had the privilege of posting in one of these infamous superman vs goku threads well let m get this in before the seemingly imminent lock
ive always thought goku defeats superman not only because of better techniques, skills and power set but also because of feats and properly estimated feats
from the begining of dbz that is the raditz and vegeta sagas it has been common knowledge that each main character entity could in short blow up a planet in the frieza saga it was shown that frieza in base form sitting down no energy charge using one finger, could blow up a planet quite easily, and by the end of that saga it was shown that super sayian one was greater than frieza at the height of his power which would be him at about a universal threat level. and by the time gt came along we were shown that even base form goku could beat frieza so its safe to say that goku on his worst day is a universal threat.
Then we have super sayian 2 and 3 and 4{ if u actually consider the gt saga} and with each level goku's power multiples i think its about one thousand or one hundred fold so simply put first he is a universal threat then a multiple universal threat. not that im saying he can warp reality or stuff he just has enough firepower to take out planets and such by the dozen one per shot. and not to mention it was shown in the buu saga that a super sayian 3 can scream open the fabric of time,space and reality so yeah. there is no way in the world that superman has the raw power or durability to stand up to rapid fire planet busters not to mention instantaneous movement and contrary to popular belief goku is not slow by buu saga it was shown that they move on average at light speed so yeah goku is going to kill superman no problem
His punches are powerful enough to launch Lobo into orbit and if memory serves me right, Lobo had to stop himself or else he would've kept on "orbiting the planet". I've never seen anything like that in DBZ.
ANND...
His speed (while in combat) is also up there or better, vibrating himself so fast punches phase right through him or becoming invisible, and the above scans with the probe is pretty interesting. Judging by the art and what's going on, it looks like Superman is incapacitating the probe while beating it simultaneously. If I'm correct, that's Flash level stuff.
How is hitting a guy who weighs less than a ton into orbit impressive as shattering Mountain Ranges with a Punch???
I seriously dont see a comparison.
With that said Goku has shown better Striking Power vs Superman Lifting and Pulling Power.
I'd say Goku due to a better variety of techniques, along with better striking power and combat speed. But this will never end and you will all soon come to realize this.
Ummm..... Anime vs Comics is legal now. Since you have no clue what is going on I thought I inform you.
Well, standard and at full power is a little difficult to interpret, and even as a DBZ fan I'll say that is heavily biased towards Goku, as in it favors him and is unfair to Superman.
There's really only one version of Goku, since it's a continuous timeline. And full power Goku is SS4 post 100 year time skip and Dragon Ball absorption. And as I just posted in another thread, at that point Goku is essentially an omnipotent.
There's a ton of versions of Superman, and standard for him would be the current canon Superman. So, New 52, full powered. That doesn't bode well for Superman, just sayin'.
Well, standard and at full power is a little difficult to interpret, and even as a DBZ fan I'll say that is heavily biased towards Goku, as in it favors him and is unfair to Superman.
There's really only one version of Goku, since it's a continuous timeline. And full power Goku is SS4 post 100 year time skip and Dragon Ball absorption. And as I just posted in another thread, at that point Goku is essentially an omnipotent.
There's a ton of versions of Superman, and standard for him would be the current canon Superman. So, New 52, full powered. That doesn't bode well for Superman, just Saiyan'.
Ummm..... Anime vs Comics is legal now. Since you have no clue what is going on I thought I inform you.
Your Welcome ;)
I have a pretty good idea of what is going on but you seem to have misunderstood my post. I know anime vs comic battle threads aren't prohibited anymore, hence why I recently created a thread involving an anime and comic character. I was simply implying that Goku vs Superman threads do not end well and usually end up locked by the moderators of their respective forums.
I'd say Goku due to a better variety of techniques, along with better striking power and combat speed. But this will never end and you will all soon come to realize this.
Hmm,people should really stop with this Power Level BS because the author himself(Akira Toryama) said it's invalid from Frieza Saga onwards(or is it Cell Saga)because it all became too convoluted(that's why he made the Scouters break).And go by feats instead.
Goku fanboys need to sit down. Silver Age Superman can wipe out everyone in the entire DB Universe fused together going Super Saiyan 1 Billion. All Post Silver Age Superman versions with the exception of the Justice League version are physically vastly superior, Equal in Speed, vastly inferior in energy output as Radditz with a power level of 1200 or so might be able to KILL these versions of Superman. All Star Superman would literally tear Ssj4 Goku in half if he got his hands on him, but I don't think most versions of Post Silver Age are anywhere near as fast as Goku. Physically stronger, vastly inferior in Energy Output. Silver Age ( as well as Superman 1 million and the Cosmic Armor and similar versions that are God like will make an unfair battle )
Why can't people accept this? There are so many versions of Superman, which one is the one most people consider to be THE REAL Superman? Which version comes to mind when you think about Superman, what era or actor, what version? I never see any bias towards Goku on this view, there is DB Goku, Teen Goku, Kioken Goku, Ssj1 Goku, Ssj2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku, SSj4 Goku, Gogeta and Vegitto. Since everyone wants to be Bias with superman and not choose his most powerful form to fight against goku, I shall pick the weakest form of Goku and pit Superman against goku right when we first meet him in Dragonball. Since you kids dont want to be specific at all and assume there is just one version of Kal El, then thats my choice. Ep1 of DB Goku will be fighting Superman from the Silver Age. Superman Effortless curbstomp. Fact.
What does deflecting a blast have to do with stiking power? Thor's Mjolnir could replicate the exact same thing without any difficulties.
I still believe Superman is stronger and much more durable.
Yes Goku has better energy projection and maybe better energy durability but when it comes to strength/speed and reaction time, superman takes the cake.
I just can't see Goku replicating most of Superman's high end feats i.e vibrating himself or vibrating molecules, or doing different things simultaneusly. just, can't see it.
Why can't people accept this? There are so many versions of Superman, which one is the one most people consider to be THE REAL Superman? Which version comes to mind when you think about Superman, what era or actor, what version? I never see any bias towards Goku on this view, there is DB Goku, Teen Goku, Kioken Goku, Ssj1 Goku, Ssj2 Goku, SSJ3 Goku, SSj4 Goku, Gogeta and Vegitto. Since everyone wants to be Bias with superman and not choose his most powerful form to fight against goku, I shall pick the weakest form of Goku and pit Superman against goku right when we first meet him in Dragonball. Since you kids dont want to be specific at all and assume there is just one version of Kal El, then thats my choice. Ep1 of DB Goku will be fighting Superman from the Silver Age. Superman Effortless curbstomp. Fact.
And I say teen Kal-El from Smallville and Goku GT - Effortless curbstomp. Fact.(TROLLING)
It wasn't our fault, it's the OP for not specifying (probably didn't read THIS), item #4 to be specific.
You're doing exactly what EVERYBODY in here's doing which is cherrypicking for the character they want to win and only showing low/bad feats for the opposing character.
I still believe Superman takes this due to his superior physical stats and speed. Yes Goku is the better energy manipulator but when it gets pgysical... which it will, Superman should be able to take him out.
I've read through the whole thread, and I believe incapacitating someone while beating him simultaneously IS Flash level stuff, it doesn't have to be high end Flash stuff.. then again, Flash doesn't always perform high end feats unless pushed to. I believe that scan is mid-almost high Flash level..... stuff.
I've read through the whole thread, and I believe incapacitating someone while beating him simultaneously IS Flash level stuff, it doesn't have to be high end Flash stuff.. then again, Flash doesn't always perform high end feats unless pushed to. I believe that scan is mid-almost high Flash level..... stuff.
No. Flash scales up to a person that can live in the world where when they move they are moving at FTL. In a picosecond he scanned the faces of 100s of people to find 2 people. In a few picosecond he saved half a million of people from a nuke.
I do not believe you read this whole thread, just the feats that were posted for Superman. In no scan did it ever say Superman was operating at light speeds or above. In a bunch of instances, it is proven his mind and speed operate far below that. his mind isn't even working like someone that can run at light speeds.
Those scans do NOT prove he is doing anything Flash level. It shows him being fast, but again it doesn't prove he's faster than Goku.
Being able to run and operate at hypersonic speeds compared to being capable of operating and running at light speeds is a difference by 100+. So if you're saying it's Flash level speeds at 1 / 100 of Flashes abilities I guess you are right if that's what you are trying to say. Flash performing at %10. But why bother, that's like me running and saying I operated at 1/6 if Captain America speeds.
The Cherry picking is the major issue and that's why this will never be debated fairly. Everyone knows that Sivler age superman was unstoppable. Completely and utterly. Everyone knows that right behind him is SSj4 Goku in terms of outrageous energy output. If this is going to be debated it should be with taking into account all known feats of each character. There are too many up and downs for both of them. (Way more for Superman, but at the same time he's been around like 4x longer.) IF people can agree on that we can come to a point of who actually could beat who. Goku Murders Animated Superman all day with easy. SA Superman Slaughters the fusion form of all DBZ characters combined into one. But what does it matter? One debate is needed to cover the enitre thing.
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