Superman vs Goku

@NeonGameWave: Been done

@ghost_rider1 said:

ANIME vs COMIC threads isn't allowed....even tho I think a SSJ4 goku would wreck superman

Yes it is

In character, they wouldn't even fight eachother.

Ok i'm going to post my argument.

I have no doubt it will really come down to Goku's techniques and his astronomical power in comparison to Superman.

Like Goku's Shunkan Idō (Instant Transmission). Many people think it takes a giant deal of concentration and he wouldn't be able to use it in a fight, however this is completely wrong. Now Instant transmission isn't a speed feat, but it's very very useful in battle.

Dodging Cell's blast with little to no concentration and attacks at an opening

Instant transmission while powering up a Kamehameha

At way way less then a second, he can react and teleport right next to Buu, dodging his attack in the process

Sensing across the Holy Relm that Super Buu is about to blow up the planet, without even concentrating Goku teleports right next to him and intercepts.

Teleports all around Cell and was so fast Cell couldn't track his movements, even being significantly stronger and faster. Does it without concentration or even with his fingers.

Uses it without his fingers (AGAIN)

Teleports across the Galaxy easily. Only concentrates for a couple of seconds.

Across dimensions of heaven and hell to King Kai's planet even though he's alive

As you can see the instant transmission is extremely useful and Goku has trained with it so much he can use it on a whim with little to no energy lost. He can use this technique against Superman to dodge attacks, clear in for openings, get the drop on Superman. Even if the planet explodes Goku can teleport to a distant planet or across dimensions without difficulty.

Furthermore Goku has trained to sense the planets life force (energy), ranging from planets, water, the core, the sky and clouds, even animals.

And Goku's Shunkan Idō (Instant Transmission) relies on sensing the life force and instantly teleporting to or near it. This conclude's that Goku can teleport anywhere on the planet making him much more versatile, fast and unpredictable in the fight vs Superman. And even though Superman doesn't have KI, he has life, which Goku can easily sense.

Now another factor of why Goku would win is his insane power and striking damage. For example Goku fought Frieza an extremely durable villain who can survive a great, who is way more durable then Superman. Some examples of Frieza durability.

Frieza kicking back a planet busting attack.

Surviving a giant spirit bomb with scratches.

A planet exploding on him would result in minor energy loss

Chopped in half, beaten to death, and drained of KI but is still able to survive a planet exploding on him.

Yet after all of this durability Super Saiyan Goku's striking power can absolutely lay waste to a villain with planet exploding durability at 100% power. Which is extremely more durable then himself chopped in half. Goku has insane striking strength, which is way more useful in a fight then the strength to lift an object. Goku puts his strength into fighting, with his punches, kicks, grapples ect.

Goku easily man-handling Frieza, all of his blows doing significant damage.

Also the Kai's said they could even kill Frieza in one blow, and SSJ3 Goku is stronger then all of them.

SSJ3 Goku punches can completely destroy villains with multi-planet destroying durability in one hit, Superman wouldn't be able to even take Goku's striking power. This is also a case for Goku's durability. Frieza is significantly weaker then Goku at Super Saiyan the first time, even more so in Cell Saga, Super Saiyan 2, 3, and 4. A weaker person = less durability. Goku can easily replicate the durability feats of Frieza hundreds of times over in his later forms.

Furthermore his power can definitely put down Superman.

Now we all know Vegeta's final flash attacks.

Let's compare the Final Flash attack to Goku's Kamehameha

Final Flash tears a big chunk off of Cell

Now let's see SSJ Goku's kamehameha

It completely rips Cells body apart. This concludes that Goku's Kamehameha >> Final Flash. And the best part is Goku wasn't anywhere near his power at the end of DBZ or DBGT. His power is astronomical, and he can narrow it or launch it in the air to avoid planet annihilation.

And people say "Oh Goku needs time to charge his attacks" well yes but Goku can charge up his attacks while fighting.

Even in the easily Saiyan Saga Goku was putting out enough energy to overpower a Galick Gun that would of destroyed the planet in SAIYAN SAGA. Literally one of his weakest points in the series.

Only getting multiplied by his Super Saiyan forms.

• SSJ = 50x Base
• SSJ2 = SSJ x 2
• SSJ3 = SSJ2 x 4
• SSJ4 = SSJ3 X 10

in Super Saiyan 3 just by powering up i the air he creates a world wide earthquake that literally tears the whole planet apart, and his power is so astronomical it can be felt across the universe in the holy relm.

And Yes Goku's astronomical power would put down Superman, as Clark has been defeated by people who can't produce the same planet busting attacks Goku's got.

And none of these were with magic, just brute force.

However Superman is mostly a brawler and doesn't have the skills to combat martial arts masters. For example Wonder woman who is -Weaker

-Slower in flight speed (Only Supersonic/Hypersonic)

-Less abilities

-Less durability

However due to her having amazing combat skills and speed she goes toe to toe with a bloodlusted Superman(who thinks Wonder Woman is Doomsday) in Infinite Crisis, and they go blow for blow, with actually Wonder Woman using her martial arts to get the advantage.

Wonder Woman who is weaker then Superman, and has less abilities held her own against him when he was bloodlusted, because she was a superior fighter.

Goku is a superior fighter to Superman which will give him a giant advantage in the fight.

Wonder Woman even addresses Superman does not react to punches like she does, because he's not a martial artist.

Furthermore Superman has shown he is vulnerable to magic and it's one of his weaknesses.

Wonder Woman is even able to slash his throat with her lasso alone, even while holding back.

And Goku has a magic weapon, which he has trained to use and fight with his entire life. The item which I'm referring to is his indestructible, magically extending powerpole.

Goku has been a martial artist all his life and that's the only thing he has known to do. Training and honing his skill when he was kid, to an adult.

Goku was trained by martial arts master, Master Roshi, Self-Taught himself, trained under Mr.Popo and Kami, and trained under King Kai.

Kid Goku almost had a tie with Master Roshi ("An Invincible martial arts Master")

Taught by Popo and Kami to fight with his senses, and feel the atmosphere.

Trained by King Kai

Furthermore Goku fights martial arts through instinct and feels the life force(KI) of his opponent when he cannot see them, and feels the movement and anticipates the attacks of who he is fighting.

Feeling the air currents when he can't see, and determining Yakons moves.

Goku also has some telepathy, and can read emotions and know when attacks are coming.

Knocking a man out and showing control over his power.

Goku also can read techniques and when he fought Piccolo as a teenager he read all his moves, and Kami praised him for it.

Goku can read openings and know when to attack, he is also an extremely intelligent fighter.

Can combat and beat Martial arts master. General Tai is a Master Assassin who is the most feared in the Red Ribbon army.

Can read the movements of a martial arts master just by fighting him, he would have no trouble reading the movements of a brawler like Superman.

Easily beating Recoome for letting providing an opening.

Tricking Nappa into a fit of rage so he fights sloppy.

Realizing Frieza cannot feel KI so he uses stealth attacks.

Other scans of Goku martial arts fighting with villains.

Fighting Frieza in Super Saiyan form vs his Final Form 100%

Fighting Perfect Cell as Super Saiyan

Fighting Kid Buu as Super Saiyan 3

Fighting Ginyu in base form

Also Goku has superior combat speed against Superman. Superman may have travel speed way faster then Goku, but Goku is faster in punches, kicks, thinking, blockin ect. AS the scan seen above Wonder Woman is a faster combatant because of her martial arts, the same thing applies for Goku.

Dodging lasers, and going mach speeds when he was only 15 years old. Lasers don't travel at light speed but they travel well beyond hypersonic.

And that was Kid Goku. Throughout the series Goku has been speculated to reach at light speed fighting, as he was shown to be able to fight at speed much faster then even light can't catch up to him. This however is just base Goku, the speed of his fists, movements only multiply by these factors.

Combined how fast his fists move, only to add on to his insane striking power. Kicking Frieza through mountains and completely demolishing him as a Super Saiyan, yet this is not even close to GOku's striking power later on in the series. Superman has been hurt and tagged by people who wouldn't even measure up to a fraction of Goku's speed in his punches and kicks.

Dodging Photon laser beam. Photons move at the Speed of light and doing this in base form.

Goku completely speed blitzing half the Ginyu Force, even through Burter himself was high hypersonic. And yet again this is Goku at one of his weakest points in the franchise.

Even God can't see him fighting.

And already posted Superman lacks in combat speed.

Wonder Woman even addresses Superman does not react to punches like she does, because he's not a martial artist.

Yet I haven't even touched up on Goku's various other techniques like teleportation, energy barrier, the Dragon fist and potent martial arts techniques he uses.

If were counting GT, SSJ Goku casual punches result in sending enemies of Super Saiyan 4 caliber through buildings, moving the skyscraper then going across the globe due to the force of his punch.

0:27

And then we have Goku's ultimate technique the Dragon Fist. Not once has the Dragon Fist ever failed to kill an opponent. It literally tears through Omega Shenron, and with Goku's speed and teleportation Supeman would have trouble dodging SSJ4 would literally have a chance at one shotting Superman.

In conclusion:

Because of Goku's martial arts, fighting ability, and overall training he should beat Superman. Goku trained his entire life.

Not to mention his astronomical power.

People have been spouting out for years that Goku is a casual planet buster, no Frieza is a casual planet buster. Goku is in on a whole new level.

@NeonGameWave: Yes, they would remain in character. Meaning these two wouldn't even fight under these rules.

This is my post on the speeds that Superman actually fights at. He doesn't actually battle or physically move his limbs at FTL. 
 

Superman, Black Adam, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel do not battle at FTL.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

How fast is Superman? Sure he can fly at faster than light (FTL), but can he actually move his body at such speeds?

By speculation maybe he can. But from what we have seen, he cannot. Not like the Flash has.

First I will address this notorious scan of Superman chasing Wally.

People try and use this scan and the calculation above to show that they are running FTL. Now they misinterpret the scan and ignore all the narration and dialogue that Wally states before he approximates his calculation. He says that if he steals Superman's speed and turns him into a statue like he did to inertia, then it the speed and momentum they are moving at would make it so like he is moving much faster than FTL. Don't believe me, I have more evidence.

This is Superman running after Flash, people have used this scan to try and say Superman easily runs at light speed. He is not flying and using his biosphere. Therefore lets accept that he is using his superspeed with his limbs. Look at his facial expression, he is struggling to catch the Flash while the Flash barely seems to exert himself. Now how fast are they actually moving? Here is the scan that people FAIL to post when they are claiming FTL again.

Read what Superman says there. He hears something speaking a hypersonic speeds meaning that the Flash, who can use his powers of the speed force to add speed to almost anything even sound itself, is not running near the speed of light here. Superman running slower than Hypderspeeds, scale how fast someone can run to how fast they can punch and you can at least have a good rough estimate of how fast Superman can battle at. I'm currently too lazy to perform the research and claculations.

Lastly, we know what happens when Barry is serious.

To be continued: As of March 3, 2012 a user (@the creator ) has pointed an awesome scan to me of Black Adam moving at Mach 500. Might debunk or give another analysis as to how fast Superman can actually move his limbs.

@ghost_rider1 said:

ANIME vs COMIC threads isn't allowed....even tho I think a SSJ4 goku would wreck superman

This but I'd say Superman

And Once Again I get to Post One Of These

Guys, can we stop with these memes and images and actually have a serious debate?

@SlimJ87D said:

This is my post on the speeds that Superman actually fights at. He doesn't actually battle or physically move his limbs at FTL.

Superman, Black Adam, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel do not battle at FTL.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

When he fights with WW on the way to the sun and back they are fighting at around 9 times the speed of light as they travel to the sun and back in 1 min 44 seconds and are able to duke it out and talk in between.

@Jonny_Anonymous: The Referee has made the call This Thread is Over

@TheVoiceOfReason said:

@SlimJ87D said:

This is my post on the speeds that Superman actually fights at. He doesn't actually battle or physically move his limbs at FTL.

Superman, Black Adam, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel do not battle at FTL.

SPOILER WARNING: Click here to reveal hidden content.

When he fights with WW on the way to the sun and back they are fighting at around 9 times the speed of light as they travel to the sun and back in 1 min 44 seconds and are able to duke it out and talk in between.

Except that is when he was accelerating to get to that rate of speed. Travel speed has little use in a fight other then BFR.

Time and Space bend, that is the process of accelerating to light speed in space.

Superman cannot fight at the rate of which he can accelerate at.

Wonder Woman is faster combat speed.

Failing to dodge Orions laser.

@Referee said:

@ghost_rider1 said:

ANIME vs COMIC threads isn't allowed....even tho I think a SSJ4 goku would wreck superman

This but I'd say Superman

And Once Again I get to Post One Of These

NOT ANYMORE IT AIN'T.

NOW, LET'S SEE SOME CHAOS! YEAH!

Only downside? I can't start the dance party anymore :(

@Twentyfive:

@SlimJ87D: I'm thinking it was from the 2006-2011 Justice League of America comics, could be wrong.

@SlimJ87D said:

@XImpossibruX: Well lets see when real debates start here for Superman. I think we had some good ammo we shot over the wall.

This is going to be fun.

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@XImpossibruX said:

@SlimJ87D: I'm thinking it was from the 2006-2011 Justice League of America comics, could be wrong.

it's from Azzarello's Man of Tomorrow arc

Thank you!

Really, we need to just get on topic here. Impossibru made some really good points here, and I would think it would be a shame if the thread is derailed with the effort he has put in.