#1 Edited by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

Tried to revive a past thread, oh well.

Stipulations, they're bloodlusted,standing 100 feet away in a colosseum with indestructable walls and floor.

CIS OFF. PIS OFF.

Fresh Prince said:

"Superman has no trouble at all in breaking planets


You believe me making the comparison of Gladiators breaking planets in a few blows translates to "Superman can't break planets at all"? Certainly Superman can destroy a planet, just not as quickly as Gladiator. It's only natrual if a being isn't as strong as another being in the class 100+, have the power output to destroy something as large as a planet, to use Supermans own dialogue you provided in the scan, "If I pound away at anything long enough it goes down" that's true for a planet, though Gladiators actually been shown to do such in 3-5 blows. Superman can't destroy a planet in 3-5 blows.


Liquid_Ice said:
Can we see that scan of Gladiator moving 100x light speed and if so was it without enterting hyperspace?
I find it funny how KYJ will use PIS against Supes but not with Gladiator
Supes has already moved between galaxies and thats without entering hyperspace.

Could've been entering hyperspace, that raises another question though, Gladiator entered Hyperspace on speed alone, could Superman speed himself up fast enough to cross dimensions...?

Or, even better, can Superman speed himself up out of literlly being time frozen?

Although it's pretty much cut and dry on how much faster Gladiator is then Supes, it's more fun arguing on whether or not (skeptical if it was, seriously doubt it) it was in hyperspace he was traveling that fast as a strawman to refute the speed issue altogether, right?

Zoom did say it best, Gladiator destroying that planet was mainly off panel so for all we know he could have used more shots

No, Zoom saw the scans in the other forum, and intentionally ignored the few panels of Gladiator striking said planet, and the subsequent explosion resulting in the planets demise, all on the same page.

The shock of Supermans punches alone destroyed a planet and that fight was under a red sun where his powers were draining

"Bloodlusted Supes, fighting someone of near equal strength... yet it's a fight that doesn't produce shockwaves powerful enough to rip apart the planet. Come to think of it, is there any other evidence of the planet being in danger from Zod and Supes trading blows other then the narrative hyperbole? Tell me, the planets foundation in danger when Superman was being controlled to rip WW apart (or Supes and Doomsday for that matter) yes or no. "

Fights with Doomsday and WW and mainly CIS, What good would it have done the story if Doomsday and Supes were tearing up the entire planet

The same could be said for the Zod fight. And, how was it CIS? Do you mean PIS? CIS is character induced stupidity. During the fight, he was blatantly trying to kill DD for the sake of his life and the life of the planet because he knew DD would destroy everything. What you're referencing is "PIS," in which case, that fight was chalk full of. That still doesnt refute another fight I mentioned. A bloodlusted Supes being mindcontrolled by maxwell lord fighting Wonder Woman with every means he possibly had, didn't create these planet busting shockwaves that've been raved on and on about. Why? Because it happened once... against Zod... and it was narrative hyperbole, no indication of whether or not the Planet was in actual danger from the shockwaves alone, on panel.

And it never stated how big the planet Gladiator busted was, for all we know it could have been smaller then Earth's moon

On the contrary! It could've been bigger then the Earth! But you'd rather think the latter right? It was a planet, dude. A freaking planet. A moon is at least a few times smaller then a planet, but it was a planet.

Same goes for the planet Supes and Zod busted up, but again they did it with shockwaves alone and under a red sun

See above.

Also Gladiator has gotten his ass kicked by Hulk in a few shots, I know Gladiator power flucates with his confidence but I have never seen Gladz do anything that puts him on Supes level and Uncanny Xmen is one of the few Marvel comics I actually keep up with

LOL, I knew you'd be the one to bring up the gladiator Hulk fight. So... a being that's flown through a Supernova (a blast from a destroyed star, the explosion traveling at one tenth the speed of light) was  hurt by being thrown into a nuclear power plant by the Hulk...? The same Hulk that can't move anywhere near mach two... hit a being that's so fast he can enter hyperspace and speed himself up from a timestop on speed alone. And, you told me not to post here anymore?

Additionally, by your own admition, Uncanny Xmen being the only comic you follow, so to you, that means I have to provide scans of Gladiator doing such and such because you don't have the comic knowledge to know what I'm referencing. Does that sound about right?

If I recall it took a full confidence Gladiator just to beat Vulcan who was beating on Gladiator and the Imperial Guard by himself

LOL, the same Vulcan that said the power cosmic was childsplay to him. Aaah.. you're attempting to diminish Gladiators character by using the Imperial Gaurd being slaughtered by Vulcan as proof to how weak Gladiator is. Are you going to mention that at no time during the Fight Gladiator was hurt by Vulcan? With belittling his feats, you're also forgetting to mention that Vulcan lost site in his eye because of Gladiator.


Liquid_Ice said:
You also made a claim of an agent of the LT saying that Gladiator can crush stars in between his arms
Did he actually do that or did they just say he could because that could of also been hyperbole

No argument there! Now refute the assortment of other feats (not narrative) of Gladiators.


AtPhantom said:
LegendaryKYJ, you're dismissing my arguments and evidence for no good reason.

Which? The one where you said Superman has the durability to shake off a blast that can destroy a star? You're claiming I'm dismissing your arguments, yet the next couple paragraphs are response to my rebuttal, that's a little perplexing.

Wonder woman is near Superman in strength, so it's perfectly believable she can hurt him, just like another human slightly weaker than me can me. I don't see any confusion here.

Bloodlusted Supes, fighting someone of near equal strength... yet it's a fight that doesn't produce shockwaves powerful enough to rip apart the planet. Come to think of it, is there any other evidence of the planet being in danger from Zod and Supes trading blows other then the narrative hyperbole? Tell me, the planets foundation in danger when Superman was being controlled to rip WW apart (or Supes and Doomsday for that matter) yes or no.

Narrative is different than empty claims. Superman is destroying the planet an he's describing what is going on around him.
 If superman said "I can destroy a planet" that would not be acceptable, but since he's saying "I am destroying a planet" that's fine.

From above:

"I'm assuming you believe me making the comparison of Gladiators breaking planets in a few blows translates to "Superman can't break planets at all." Certainly Superman can destroy a planet, just not as quickly as Gladiator. It's only natrual if a being isn't as strong as another being in the class 100+, have the power output to destroy something as large as a planet, to use Supermans own dialogue you provided in the scan, "If I pound away at anything long enough it goes down" that's true for a planet, though Gladiators actually been shown to do such in 3-5 blows. Superman can't destroy a planet in 3-5 blows."

Likewise, Gladiator saying "I can crush stars", without a feat to back it up is not acceptable.

The narrative of the agent of the living tribunal be damned, we're emphasizing to much on this. I only brought it up for good measure, not really using as evidence of something he's done, more like an example of his power set in the MU. Gladiator has flown through Supernovas and swam through stars, though.

Superman did destroy that planet, I know that because the planet is destroyed at the end of the comic.

 
"I'm assuming you believe me making the comparison of Gladiators breaking planets in a few blows translates to "Superman can't break planets at all."Certainly Superman can destroy a planet, just not as quickly as Gladiator. It's only natrual if a being isn't as strong as another being in the class 100+, have the power output to destroy something as large as a planet, to use Supermans own dialogue you provided in the scan, "If I pound away at anything long enough it goes down" that's true for a planet, though Gladiators actually been shown to do such in 3-5 blows. Superman can't destroy a planet in 3-5 blows."

And I don't care who the comentator was, Gods, guardians, angels and Monitors have claimed superman being capable of crushing planets in a single blow and having powers equal to a skyfather, doesn't mean it's true.

No argument here. 

I don't see any problem with superman battling the sun eater, and surviving a million nuclear blasts, because A) A sun eater is a grand cosmic being by your own statement, and B) he was already tenderized by doomsday before.

 There isn't any problem with it. The same reason I know your arguments are being dismissed. The points I'm making are going over your head. The point being was, throughout post crisis Supermans day, he's had a certain degree of invulnerability. When you say he can "absorb" a bomb capable of busting a system, you need to state the circumstances as to why. Because, I gaurantee Zod, WW, DD, Green Lantern, MM, and others to include blasts of energy or debris that hurt him don't have the power output to bust a system, the original testament you were trying to make as to Supermans durability being 'Superman can absorb a bomb capable of leveling a system.' That would contradict his durability in nearly every way.

As for DD and Supes not destroying a planet, that happens in comics all the time. The collateral damage should be a millon times higher than it ever is.

Good, we've established that it happens in comics all the time but never any planet busting shockwaves as a result. So, the planet busting shockwaves, happened once with Zod explained through a narrative box... not exactly a testament to Supes strength.

Sentry, another superman rip-off, fought the strongest incarnation of Hulk ever in a battle where they both expended all their energy

WWH?! Dude, you're using that horrid crap Greg Pak handwaving of power capabilities.. LOL@ the "strongest incarnation of Hulk," the same Hulk that didn't do anything near supporting the weight of a 150 billion ton mountain range, or destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth in a single punch. 

, and all that got destroyed was a building the Hulk slammed into. Gladiator fought Thor and they should have at least take out a part of the city, nothing happened.

Assuming I was to write a rebuttal to this standpoint, it would be completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Gladiator=/=Sentry. So your standpoint of "Superman rip-offs" is a complete logical fallacy. The two haven't even met in Marvel U, their powers work completely different... what did you hope to accomplish by bringing up Sentry? It only proves a) you're reaching and b) you know nothing about the Sentrys capabilities... the same being that contained a cosmic cube with his bare hands, the same being that pretty much no sold Terrax the Terrible ("Get off my planet, now."), the same being that flew to the sun and back in minutes, the same being that beheaded Attuma with one blow. 

for the other scan, I hope this clarifies things:




This scan clearly show superman doing all the pulling while Hal focuses on maintaining his construct. The reason they're not gaining any ground is because Starbreaker is forcing the Earth into the sun with considerable force.

You're outright warping these scans.

Superman: "We've got to restore the Earths proper orbit."
Hal Jordan: "Well, you and I are the only two strong enough to even try it."
Panel three, Hal Jordan:
 "As impossible as it sounds we've got to pull the planet back into place."
Superman: "Just add your power to mine, Hal--and let's do this crazy thing."

Second Page:
Panel two, Hal: "Effort is overwhelming, my construct is starting to fracture."
Panel three, Supes: "But we can't give up."

Stop ignoring my questions:

"Well, aside from there being no dialogue to indicate Superman is pulling that planet himself, why on Earth would you possibly believe a being that has a weapon capable of containing black holes wouldn't help Superman move a planet?
"Just add your power to mine Hal--"

All in all, you're not giving Superman credit.

Hey, this is a battle between the two, remember? This isn't about making one beloved character look bad, it's who can win in a fight based on such and such.  Are you going to pretend I haven't defended Superman in the past? Go through my posting history, I've defended Supes in the past, many times. This isn't about "giving someone credit" It's a debate where we discuss limitations and capabilities. What do you want me to say about Supes?

Superman can and has:
The power to destroy a planet, though nowhere near displayed as 3-5 blows
Move a planet with help
Fly at lightspeed
Withstood other class 100+ blows for many, many battles
Flown to Paris and back before Lois could finish her sentence
Stopped a bullet on the other side of town while the assailent was like, 10 feet away from Lois

There we have it, impressive speed, power, and durability... Credit to Superman. Now, can Superman fly fast enough to cross dimensions or speed himself up through a time freeze? Last person I checked could do that was incarnations of the Flash, but can Superman perform such feats? Has Superman destroyed a planet in 3-5 blows or displayed enough power to do such?

P.S. "you're not giving Superman credit." I don't even like Gladiator, but I know he's more powerful then Supes, THAT is giving credit, not arguing for a character because you don't like the other, that's giving a character credit at the expense of another. 


Liquid_Ice said:
trust me
i have seen kyj or whatever his name is make some pretty retarded post

this is nothing surprising"

None of which you've participated in, I don't remember you posting, I guess that means you've never said anything credible. If you've got a point to make, then make it. Stop being a baby and create a standpoint.


Zoom said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"You didn't refute crap, you're ASSUMING they're alternate versions, you have yet to address which. You're completely wrong."
I'm assuming?  I've freaking read these stories!

Yes you're assuming. I haven't mentioned Ego or SS once, so you've set up a pseudo-standpoint to refute, trying to divert the subject away from his feats. You've read Marvel Adventures issues ten through whatever, that's what you're referencing. What you didn't read was a credible fight between Tyrant, Gladiator, Beta Ray Bill, Silver Surfer, and Terrax.. the same fight Gladiator helped them defeat a being spawned from Galactus himself. What you didn't read (or ignored) was the couple scans on the KMC page showing Gladiator hitting a planet 3-5 times, and the onomatopoeia "THOOM," the artwork depicting an exploding planet. The next page, him standing... contemplating... he not only destroyed that planet, but hit it so hard it exploded, annihilating said planet, leaving only floating rock and debris.

We've got Gladiator coming from an alternate future to kill Thor before he does something awful.  That's what Glads is talking about in the scans where the two of them fight.
All those scans of him fighting Ego or Silver Surfer?  They're from a marvel adventures comic, which are all out of continuity.

See above.

I'm not assuming anything.  I actually know what I'm talking about, unlike you.

I could've swarn you're the one who adamantly refused to accept Spiderman stomping DS's ass like a child, and when proven wrong by multiple different posters, whined and resorted to using scans of DS hitting the Flash, I'm starting to see a trend. 


Liquid_Ice said:
Pwned

"Pwned"? What are we? 13-14 years old? "Pwned"? Instead of being an curbside audience and throwing in a jab, hiding behind big people who know what they're talking about, maybe you should present something of value to the thread. Or is it that your adolescence calls for immature jabs online in a thread where grown ups are talking to feel better about your rejected attempts at social construction with.. you know.. real people?
#2 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

i have always said gladiator should win but ppl always use his low showing as an excuse to lose and claim superman far exceeds him in the  all feats..

but i never buy that i say superman would get murdered in all out fight against gladiator on earth or in space if at full confidence no reason i can see why it would be lowered in this fight.

#3 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
I still think Superman wins...
#4 Edited by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

see what i mean?

#5 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LordCosmicKing said:
"see what i mean?"
See What ? I have always said that Superman wins even back when I first got on here... aint nothing changed.
#6 Posted by Static Shock (47329 posts) - - Show Bio

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/superman-vs-gladiator/1888/?page=1

Thread's gonna be locked.

#7 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"see what i mean?"
See What ? I have always said that Superman wins even back when I first got on here... aint nothing changed. "
i know i have read your post before stating it.  :)
#8 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LordCosmicKing said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"see what i mean?"
See What ? I have always said that Superman wins even back when I first got on here... aint nothing changed. "
i know i have read your post before stating it.  :)"
Very Good Then...
#9 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

glad wins he vibrates himself past FTL and outside time and beats him while frozen in place.

#10 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LordCosmicKing said:
"glad wins he vibrates himself past FTL and outside time and beats him while frozen in place."
Glad doesnt always use his Super Speed to the fullest... and I dont think he would do it here either... he would try and slug it out with The Man of Steel... and get caught with some good shots by a pissed off Superman...
#11 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman.  Duh.

#12 Edited by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"glad wins he vibrates himself past FTL and outside time and beats him while frozen in place."
Glad doesnt always use his Super Speed to the fullest... and I dont think he would do it here either... he would try and slug it out with The Man of Steel... and get caught with some good shots by a pissed off Superman..."
Saturn, OP said bloodlusted.

Zoom said:

"Superman.  Duh."


Shouldn't you be making a rebuttal?

 

LordCosmicKing said:

"i have always said gladiator should win but ppl always use his low showing as an excuse to lose and claim superman far exceeds him in the  all feats..

but i never buy that i say superman would get murdered in all out fight against gladiator on earth or in space if at full confidence no reason i can see why it would be lowered in this fight."


Yup, I specified for the fight to be bloodlusted and in an enclosed arena, each fighting at their peak, no handouts, no excuses.  

#13 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"glad wins he vibrates himself past FTL and outside time and beats him while frozen in place."
Glad doesnt always use his Super Speed to the fullest... and I dont think he would do it here either... he would try and slug it out with The Man of Steel... and get caught with some good shots by a pissed off Superman..."
Saturn, OP said bloodlusted."
And this changes what ? It still doesnt mean he will use his Speed to the fullest... moreso his Strength... Gladiator is a brute... he doesnt always use massive Super Speed within  battles... its the same way with Superman as well...
#14 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Why bother arguing with a guy who doesn't read comic books?  Everybody else knows Superman is better in every way.

Superman would never lose to Gambit or Corsair.  He'd never lose to Captain America.  He'd never let Vulcan kill half his team before finding a way to stop him.

Superman > Gladiator.  It obvious.

#15 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

Bloodlusted or not Superman wins.

Moderator
#17 Posted by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL, I havent seen Vance turd in forever.

Zoom said:

"Why bother arguing with a guy who doesn't read comic books?  Everybody else knows Superman is better in every way.

Superman would never lose to Gambit or Corsair.  He'd never lose to Captain America.  He'd never let Vulcan kill half his team before finding a way to stop him.

Superman > Gladiator.  It obvious."
He'd never let Zoom exploit PIS as a standpoint for a fight. *rolls eyes.

King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"glad wins he vibrates himself past FTL and outside time and beats him while frozen in place."
Glad doesnt always use his Super Speed to the fullest... and I dont think he would do it here either... he would try and slug it out with The Man of Steel... and get caught with some good shots by a pissed off Superman..."
Saturn, OP said bloodlusted."
And this changes what ? It still doesnt mean he will use his Speed to the fullest... moreso his Strength... Gladiator is a brute... he doesnt always use massive Super Speed within  battles... its the same way with Superman as well..."

Fixed, go read the OP now.
#18 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
#19 Edited by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal.
#20 Edited by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

the OP also said no excuses or hand outs so they would match and try to exceed one anothers powers when one tries to out do the other. my point is that glad could just choose to end this just as quickly using all his powers not just strength or flight same for supes.

your stands sounds like an excuse that he would not use his full potential.

#21 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
He'd never let Zoom exploit PIS as a standpoint for a fight.

Again, showing that you don't read comics.

Zoom kicked the entire JLA's tail.  He moves too fast for any of them to see at top speed and hits harder than Superman.  That has flat out been stated on panel.  Zoom beating Supes isn't pis.  It's how it should have and did go down.

Zoom would kill Gladiator faster than he could blink.
#22 Edited by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
He'd never let Zoom exploit PIS as a standpoint for a fight.

Again, showing that you don't read comics.

Zoom kicked the entire JLA's tail.  He moves too fast for any of them to see at top speed and hits harder than Superman.  That has flat out been stated on panel.  Zoom beating Supes isn't pis.  It's how it should have and did go down.

Zoom would kill Gladiator faster than he could blink."

LOL, I guess my witticism needs work, that last remark went miles over your head.


Oh, and BTW. I can play the "he'd never" game, too. Here goes:

He'd never let Batman beat him up with a Kryptonite ring. Gladiator would never be impressed by DS's acrobats. Gladiator would never miss Batman when he's bloodlusted being controlled by Darksied.
#23 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

i never understood zooms power technically zoom should break his hand punching anybody if frozen in time especially supes..

#24 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well...
#25 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"LOL, I havent seen Vance turd in forever.
I stayed away from battle forums because of people like you.
Moderator
#26 Posted by Major Majestic (94 posts) - - Show Bio

Monkey Kong Jr. Wins

#27 Posted by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well..."
No, because the only one to:

"Get this, the black celestial sealed off a chunk of time from the main timestream, any effort to break through it was repelled save for Reed Richards tech. Gladiator, who was able to break through without the protection of Reeds tech seemed frozen to mainstream time, he was a statue, but felt normal. The FF modified tech to place themseleves out of sync with the frozen time within the black celestials time bubble. When they were inside, Gladiator felt their presense, so he accelerated himself to sync with the speed in which the FF were funtcioning, all on speed. And did so for hours on end to help them repair machines or get in fights. All while the rest of time was frozen."

In DC was Flash. Superman can't move that fast... ever.
#28 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio
Major Majestic said:
"Monkey Kong Jr. Wins"

Moderator
#29 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well..."
No, because the only one to:

"Get this, the black celestial sealed off a chunk of time from the main timestream, any effort to break through it was repelled save for Reed Richards tech. Gladiator, who was able to break through without the protection of Reeds tech seemed frozen to mainstream time, he was a statue, but felt normal. The FF modified tech to place themseleves out of sync with the frozen time within the black celestials time bubble. When they were inside, Gladiator felt their presense, so he accelerated himself to sync with the speed in which the FF were funtcioning, all on speed. And did so for hours on end to help them repair machines or get in fights. All while the rest of time was frozen."

In DC was Flash. Superman can't move that fast... ever."
Superman has shattered the time and space barrier with his speed before dude... he has even time traveled via his Super Speed before. And again... Gladiator could have been using Hyperspace Travel to do that... and you cant use that within a battle
#30 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well..."
No, because the only one to:

"Get this, the black celestial sealed off a chunk of time from the main timestream, any effort to break through it was repelled save for Reed Richards tech. Gladiator, who was able to break through without the protection of Reeds tech seemed frozen to mainstream time, he was a statue, but felt normal. The FF modified tech to place themseleves out of sync with the frozen time within the black celestials time bubble. When they were inside, Gladiator felt their presense, so he accelerated himself to sync with the speed in which the FF were funtcioning, all on speed. And did so for hours on end to help them repair machines or get in fights. All while the rest of time was frozen."

In DC was Flash. Superman can't move that fast... ever."
Superman has shattered the time and space barrier with his speed before dude... he has even time traveled via his Super Speed before. And again... Gladiator could have been using Hyperspace Travel to do that... and you cant use that within a battle
"
Gladiator most likely was because he doesn't move at those speeds on earth.
Moderator
#31 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well..."
No, because the only one to:

"Get this, the black celestial sealed off a chunk of time from the main timestream, any effort to break through it was repelled save for Reed Richards tech. Gladiator, who was able to break through without the protection of Reeds tech seemed frozen to mainstream time, he was a statue, but felt normal. The FF modified tech to place themseleves out of sync with the frozen time within the black celestials time bubble. When they were inside, Gladiator felt their presense, so he accelerated himself to sync with the speed in which the FF were funtcioning, all on speed. And did so for hours on end to help them repair machines or get in fights. All while the rest of time was frozen."

In DC was Flash. Superman can't move that fast... ever."
Superman has shattered the time and space barrier with his speed before dude... he has even time traveled via his Super Speed before. And again... Gladiator could have been using Hyperspace Travel to do that... and you cant use that within a battle
"
Gladiator most likely was because he doesn't move at those speeds on earth."
Thats what I am thinking... all of the sources I have read says Gladiator uses Hyperspace Travel to achieve FTL speeds just as many others do in the Marvel Universe...
#32 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
LordCosmicKing said:
"i never understood zooms power technically zoom should break his hand punching anybody if frozen in time especially supes.."
Your first statement explains your second.

It's all relative. ;-)
#33 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"i never understood zooms power technically zoom should break his hand punching anybody if frozen in time especially supes.."
Your first statement explains your second.

It's all relative. ;-)"
LMFAO.
Moderator
#34 Posted by LegendaryKYJ (1334 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well..."
No, because the only one to:

"Get this, the black celestial sealed off a chunk of time from the main timestream, any effort to break through it was repelled save for Reed Richards tech. Gladiator, who was able to break through without the protection of Reeds tech seemed frozen to mainstream time, he was a statue, but felt normal. The FF modified tech to place themseleves out of sync with the frozen time within the black celestials time bubble. When they were inside, Gladiator felt their presense, so he accelerated himself to sync with the speed in which the FF were funtcioning, all on speed. And did so for hours on end to help them repair machines or get in fights. All while the rest of time was frozen."

In DC was Flash. Superman can't move that fast... ever."
Superman has shattered the time and space barrier with his speed before dude... he has even time traveled via his Super Speed before. And again... Gladiator could have been using Hyperspace Travel to do that... and you cant use that within a battle
"
When, where, and how? The only one to move that quickly was Flash, provide the circumstances to which point, hell, I'll even go on KMC respect Superman myself, I already know I won't find anything for Superman moving at those speeds.

Now.. I know PRE-crisis Superman time traveled like it was nothing, Pre-crisis was able to break into heaven on speed alone, are you shure you're not confusing the two?
#35 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well..."
No, because the only one to:

"Get this, the black celestial sealed off a chunk of time from the main timestream, any effort to break through it was repelled save for Reed Richards tech. Gladiator, who was able to break through without the protection of Reeds tech seemed frozen to mainstream time, he was a statue, but felt normal. The FF modified tech to place themseleves out of sync with the frozen time within the black celestials time bubble. When they were inside, Gladiator felt their presense, so he accelerated himself to sync with the speed in which the FF were funtcioning, all on speed. And did so for hours on end to help them repair machines or get in fights. All while the rest of time was frozen."

In DC was Flash. Superman can't move that fast... ever."
Superman has shattered the time and space barrier with his speed before dude... he has even time traveled via his Super Speed before. And again... Gladiator could have been using Hyperspace Travel to do that... and you cant use that within a battle
"
 I'll even go on KMC respect Superman myself, I already know I won't find anything for Superman moving at those speeds.

Maybe if you read comics instead of camping on KMC..you would know.
Moderator
#36 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"LOL, I guess my witticism needs work, that last remark went miles over your head."
Guess so.  Or you could just not use so many synonyms in the same sentence.

If its PIS when Gladiator loses to Cap, Gambit and Corsair.  Its PIS when he gets batted around by Cannonball, Deathbird, Hyperion or Vulcan?  Seems Gladiator falls victim to PIS a lot huh?  Or maybe he's just not that good. ;-)
#37 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

why you being rude vance?

@zoom
speed is relative to time but when an object is frozen beyond the laws of physics anyone punching anything would be like hitting steel or something solid and dense.. while you remain  malleable,

#38 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"You believe me making the comparison of Gladiators breaking planets in a few blows translates to "Superman can't break planets at all"? Certainly Superman can destroy a planet, just not as quickly as Gladiator. It's only natrual if a being isn't as strong as another being in the class 100+, have the power output to destroy something as large as a planet, to use Supermans own dialogue you provided in the scan, "If I pound away at anything long enough it goes down" that's true for a planet, though Gladiators actually been shown to do such in 3-5 blows. Superman can't destroy a planet in 3-5 blows.
the statement "If I pound away at anything long enough it goes down" refers not to planets, but to Infinity man, the agent of the Source, whom Superman is fighting on the scan.

LegendaryKYJ said:
"Bloodlusted Supes, fighting someone of near equal strength... yet it's a fight that doesn't produce shockwaves powerful enough to rip apart the planet. Come to think of it, is there any other evidence of the planet being in danger from Zod and Supes trading blows other then the narrative hyperbole? Tell me, the planets foundation in danger when Superman was being controlled to rip WW apart (or Supes and Doomsday for that matter) yes or no.

Superman did destroy that planet, I know that because the planet is destroyed at the end of the comic."

I gave you an answer a couple of pages down, and you simply ignored it.

I don't know if the planet's foundation is in danger, was it in danger when Thor and Gladiator fought? an issue you nicely evaded in your last post.

As you wish, we'll leave crushing stars alone. You say however, that Gladiator can fly through stars? So can Superman. Superman can even fly through red stars which rob him of his powers, just like he did in Infinite crisis.

But like I said before, Superman can also move a planet, but since you're challenging my scans, I'll get to that later.
" There isn't any problem with it. The same reason I know your arguments are being dismissed. The points I'm making are going over your head. The point being was, throughout post crisis Supermans day, he's had a certain degree of invulnerability. When you say he can "absorb" a bomb capable of busting a system, you need to state the circumstances as to why. Because, I gaurantee Zod, WW, DD, Green Lantern, MM, and others to include blasts of energy or debris that hurt him don't have the power output to bust a system, the original testament you were trying to make as to Supermans durability being 'Superman can absorb a bomb capable of leveling a system.' That would contradict his durability in nearly every way.
"
I said Superman can absorb a bomb which would destroy half a galaxy, not a system. And it's not a durability feat, it's an absorption feat, to take on that much energy is very impressive. Besides, you list WW, MM, and green lantern, but you fail to mention that Gladiator was put down by Colossus, Cannonball Fantastic four and others. are they capable of producing system leveling blasts? Or did he simply have confidence issues when he fought that?

LegendaryKYJ said:
"WWH?! Dude, you're using that horrid crap Greg Pak handwaving of power capabilities.. LOL@ the "strongest incarnation of Hulk," the same Hulk that didn't do anything near supporting the weight of a 150 billion ton mountain range, or destroy an asteroid twice the size of Earth in a single punch. 

Assuming I was to write a rebuttal to this standpoint, it would be completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Gladiator=/=Sentry. So your standpoint of "Superman rip-offs" is a complete logical fallacy. The two haven't even met in Marvel U, their powers work completely different... what did you hope to accomplish by bringing up Sentry? It only proves a) you're reaching and b) you know nothing about the Sentrys capabilities... the same being that contained a cosmic cube with his bare hands, the same being that pretty much no sold Terrax the Terrible ("Get off my planet, now."), the same being that flew to the sun and back in minutes, the same being that beheaded Attuma with one blow. 

Horrid crap or not, It illustrates a point. WWHulk held together two tectonic plates together, much more impressive than lifting a mountain.

Sentry's and Gladiator's power are the same, both are pastiches of Superman. Both have great mental powers which manifest as physical power. that they haven't met in MU is of no consequence, their powers work differently, but the outcome is the same, physical strength. Again, he has awesome power but in his fight with the hulk the collateral damage was minimal.


LegendaryKYJ said:
"You're outright warping these scans.
Superman: "We've got to restore the Earths proper orbit."
Hal Jordan: "Well, you and I are the only two strong enough to even try it."

Panel three, Hal Jordan: "As impossible as it sounds we've got to pull the planet back into place.
Superman: "Just add your power to mine, Hal--and let's do this crazy thing."

Second Page:
Panel two, Hal: "Effort is overwhelming, my construct is starting to fracture."
Panel three, Supes: "But we can't give up."

Stop ignoring my questions:
"Well, aside from there being no dialogue to indicate Superman is pulling that planet himself, why on Earth would you possibly believe a being that has a weapon capable of containing black holes wouldn't help Superman move a planet?
"Just add your power to mine Hal--"
"
Did you even look at the scans? Does it at any point look like the lantern is puling anything?
That they're the only ones strong enough t try it means absolutely noghing. Neither does "add your power to mine" it might just mean they've got to work together.

Again, Lantern is only providing the harness. The reason he can't give up is because if he does the construct falls apart and earth goes into the sun.

I don't know why the Lantern is not helping Superman pull back a planet. maybe it's bad writing. Maybe they thought it would work out better this way. All I see is that Superman is pulling the planet. If you disagree we can always get a third oppinion.


Hey, this is a battle between the two, remember? This isn't about making one beloved character look bad, it's who can win in a fight based on such and such.  Are you going to pretend I haven't defended Superman in the past? Go through my posting history, I've defended Supes in the past, many times. This isn't about "giving someone credit" It's a debate where we discuss limitations and capabilities. What do you want me to say about Supes?

Superman can and has:
The power to destroy a planet, though nowhere near displayed as 3-5 blows
Move a planet with help
Fly at lightspeed
Withstood other class 100+ blows for many, many battles
Flown to Paris and back before Lois could finish her sentence
Stopped a bullet on the other side of town while the assailent was like, 10 feet away from Lois

There we have it, impressive speed, power, and durability... Credit to Superman. Now, can Superman fly fast enough to cross dimensions or speed himself up through a time freeze? Last person I checked could do that was incarnations of the Flash, but can Superman perform such feats? Has Superman destroyed a planet in 3-5 blows or displayed enough power to do such?

P.S. "you're not giving Superman credit." I don't even like Gladiator, but I know he's more powerful then Supes, THAT is giving credit, not arguing for a character because you don't like the other, that's giving a character credit at the expense of another.
I actually want  to see scans of gladiator speeding himself up (the infamous KMC respect threads don't have it). then we can talk about who's faster. And supes is beyond light speed.
#39 Posted by Fresh Prince (5148 posts) - - Show Bio
Superman wins no doubt. Im starting to become less of a Glad fanboy coz of this
#40 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
LordCosmicKing said:
"why you being rude vance?

@zoom
speed is relative to time but when an object is frozen beyond the laws of physics anyone punching anything would be like hitting steel or something solid and dense.. while you remain  malleable,"
Superman isn't frozen though.  Zoom's power only effects himself.  Relative to Zoom, everyone seems like a statue.  But they aren't stuck in time.  He punches them.  His hand barely feels it.  But to them, he's hitting them beyond the speed of light.  Getting punched by somebody moving beyond the speed of light will do a lot of damage.
#41 Edited by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

 i havent said anything even though someone has bn using it as an excuse of supe ability to  survive a giant explosion because he obsorbed the energy of a bomb.. i dont know why no one else has challenged this argument.

their is a difference of obsorbing the energy of a bomb while it is still in one piece.. supe did not obsorb the full power of a detonation but a small percent of the triggered energy to start a reaction.

the energy could have bn as insignificant as an electrical charge or a grenade but it is not anywhere near the actual output of the explosion itself.  :P

#42 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio
LordCosmicKing said:
"why you being rude vance?

LegendaryKYJ insulted me as soon as I made my first post...and I don't like his punk ass to begin with.More to the point he insulted me when I wasn't directing my post at him or actually making an argument.
Moderator
#43 Posted by SeSAW (3677 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Why bother arguing with a guy who doesn't read comic books?  Everybody else knows Superman is better in every way.

Superman would never lose to Gambit or Corsair.  He'd never lose to Captain America.  He'd never let Vulcan kill half his team before finding a way to stop him.

Superman > Gladiator.  It obvious."

Yeah we know Superman was only taken down by Aquaman, and Hawkman, and embarissed by WW.

Superman wins this barely by the skin of his teeth they would both need medical treatment after and lots of it.
#44 Posted by King Saturn (224189 posts) - - Show Bio
LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LegendaryKYJ said:
"King Saturn said:
"LordCosmicKing said:
"well then Glad wins.. bloodlusted in your face king saturn  :P

"
Gladiator is a Brute... if he is bloodlusted he will come at Superman hard... but Supes will come at him hard as well... but this does not mean he will be traveling at lightspeeds within the battle...
"

King, read the OP, It's already been proven Superman is a slug compared to Glads. CIS is off, it's two super-folk fighting all out, one of which is much stronger and faster then the other, the fights a done deal."
How is Superman a Slug compared to Gladiator ? Cause Glad can travel FTL through Hyperspace Travel ? That means nothing within a battle... he wont be able to achieve those effects in a Battle especially within a Planet's Atmosphere... and for the record Superman can travel FTL as well..."
No, because the only one to:

"Get this, the black celestial sealed off a chunk of time from the main timestream, any effort to break through it was repelled save for Reed Richards tech. Gladiator, who was able to break through without the protection of Reeds tech seemed frozen to mainstream time, he was a statue, but felt normal. The FF modified tech to place themseleves out of sync with the frozen time within the black celestials time bubble. When they were inside, Gladiator felt their presense, so he accelerated himself to sync with the speed in which the FF were funtcioning, all on speed. And did so for hours on end to help them repair machines or get in fights. All while the rest of time was frozen."

In DC was Flash. Superman can't move that fast... ever."
Superman has shattered the time and space barrier with his speed before dude... he has even time traveled via his Super Speed before. And again... Gladiator could have been using Hyperspace Travel to do that... and you cant use that within a battle
"
When, where, and how? The only one to move that quickly was Flash, provide the circumstances to which point, hell, I'll even go on KMC respect Superman myself, I already know I won't find anything for Superman moving at those speeds.

Now.. I know PRE-crisis Superman time traveled like it was nothing, Pre-crisis was able to break into heaven on speed alone, are you shure you're not confusing the two?"
Not Everything that Superman has done is in the KMC Respect Threads dude...
#45 Posted by The 5th Republic (22 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"Zoom said:
"Why bother arguing with a guy who doesn't read comic books?  Everybody else knows Superman is better in every way.

Superman would never lose to Gambit or Corsair.  He'd never lose to Captain America.  He'd never let Vulcan kill half his team before finding a way to stop him.

Superman > Gladiator.  It obvious."

Yeah we know Superman was only taken down by Aquaman, and Hawkman, and embarissed by WW."
Yeah and Gladiator was curbstomped by Gambit. (go ahead an cry Gladiator fans. Reality hurts)
#46 Posted by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"Zoom said:
"Why bother arguing with a guy who doesn't read comic books?  Everybody else knows Superman is better in every way.

Superman would never lose to Gambit or Corsair.  He'd never lose to Captain America.  He'd never let Vulcan kill half his team before finding a way to stop him.

Superman > Gladiator.  It obvious."

Yeah we know Superman was only taken down by Aquaman, and Hawkman, and embarissed by WW.

Superman wins this barely by the skin of his teeth they would both need medical treatment after and lots of it."
You say that as if Gladiator hasn't lost to people way weaker than Aquaman,Hawkman and Wonder Woman.
Moderator
#47 Posted by LordCosmicKing (2629 posts) - - Show Bio

another account bro seriously?

#48 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio
SeSAW said:
"Zoom said:
"Why bother arguing with a guy who doesn't read comic books?  Everybody else knows Superman is better in every way.

Superman would never lose to Gambit or Corsair.  He'd never lose to Captain America.  He'd never let Vulcan kill half his team before finding a way to stop him.

Superman > Gladiator.  It obvious."

Yeah we know Superman was only taken down by Aquaman, and Hawkman, and embarissed by WW.

Superman wins this barely by the skin of his teeth they would both need medical treatment after and lots of it."
When was he taken down by Hawkman?

For that matter, when was he taken down by Wonder woman? there was a battle right before IC, but Superman was pretty much pummeling her until the end.
#49 Posted by Alexander Anderson (4030 posts) - - Show Bio
AtPhantom said:
"SeSAW said:
"Zoom said:
"Why bother arguing with a guy who doesn't read comic books?  Everybody else knows Superman is better in every way.

Superman would never lose to Gambit or Corsair.  He'd never lose to Captain America.  He'd never let Vulcan kill half his team before finding a way to stop him.

Superman > Gladiator.  It obvious."

Yeah we know Superman was only taken down by Aquaman, and Hawkman, and embarissed by WW.

Superman wins this barely by the skin of his teeth they would both need medical treatment after and lots of it."
When was he taken down by Hawkman?

For that matter, when was he taken down by Wonder woman? there was a battle right before IC, but Superman was pretty much pummeling her until the end."
Hawkman KO'd him with the Fist of Horus in the 'Public Enemies' arc.
#50 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
AtPhantom said:
"When was he taken down by Hawkman?"
Loeb gave Hawkman a fist of plotdevice.  Hit him from below which somehow sent him downwards.  Hawkman explained that he had "essentially hit Superman with a planet."  Then Superman and Batman kicked Hawkman and Captain Marvel's butts off panel.