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#1 Posted by MurieC16 (68 posts) - - Show Bio


#2 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (12025 posts) - - Show Bio

Ahem...

  1. This thread has been done over nine thousand times, use the search bar next time and voice your opinion
  2. This belongs in the battle thread
  3. Branching off of two, you need to list the proper rules for such a battle
#3 Posted by TERMINATOR1000 (1203 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman would win.... my money is on supes.

#4 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

I keep my stance on this battle. Dr. M deatomizes Supes instantly. /battle

#5 Posted by menaceforever (3696 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr.m with ease

#6 Posted by XMen1963 (484 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr. Manhattan should be banned from battle threads.

#7 Posted by karetaker (1565 posts) - - Show Bio

@XMen1963: i rarely seen him in them. i think he should be in more

#8 Posted by jwalser3 (5182 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr.M stomps

#9 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12346 posts) - - Show Bio

WHY CANT I FLAG THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRAAAGGGGGGGG

#10 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

What has Doctor Manhattan ever DONE for people to think he could win this fight? Back it up people, don't just say "Manhattan OWNZ!!!!" Doctor Manhattan didn't do sh!t to prove he could beat Superman.

#11 Posted by space_coyote (1140 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ancient_0f_Days said:

WHY CANT I FLAG THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRRAAAGGGGGGGG

Don't worry man, I got you cov....wait... wtf is going on here!

#12 Posted by Ancient_0f_Days (12346 posts) - - Show Bio

@space_coyote: SEE WHAT I MEAN!!!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

#13 Posted by Jezer (3129 posts) - - Show Bio

Wasn't there some new Watchmen info/material coming out sometime this year? Maybe we should hold off opinion until that information comes out.

I guess an obvious argument for Superman is that he can speedblitz since Doctor Manhattan never displayed super speed and never had to. Though, he did make some comment about seeing things "so small and fast, I can't be sure they even existed". That's not any solid evidence or anything. Either way, he has molecular control enough to build himself back from being vaporized, change his size, and make clones. So, Superman can't actually harm him.

I also remember reading that Superman's durability extends to molecular manipulation and that he's resisted it before....Assuming that's true, Dr. Manhattan can't hurt Superman either. Dr. Manhattan may not be able to perceive Superman using his superspeed or explode him. That essentially leaves us at.... who knows what would happen in a fight.

#14 Posted by nickzambuto (14147 posts) - - Show Bio

IIRC, Dr. M couldn't even do anything about the Soviet's nukes, so he's hardly as great as people say he is.

#15 Posted by Dextersinister (6355 posts) - - Show Bio

@XMen1963 said:

Dr. Manhattan should be banned from battle threads.

Alan Moore was going to use Captain Atom in the Watchmen but wasn't allowed. Dr.Manhattan the same character as Atom but with a different name he has performed all his feats at one time or another so it's best to just think of the DR as Atom but without the need for a suit.

#16 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jezer said:

Wasn't there some new Watchmen info/material coming out sometime this year? Maybe we should hold off opinion until that information comes out.

I guess an obvious argument for Superman is that he can speedblitz since Doctor Manhattan never displayed super speed and never had to. Though, he did make some comment about seeing things "so small and fast, I can't be sure they even existed". That's not any solid evidence or anything. Either way, he has molecular control enough to build himself back from being vaporized, change his size, and make clones. So, Superman can't actually harm him.

I also remember reading that Superman's durability extends to molecular manipulation and that he's resisted it before....Assuming that's true, Dr. Manhattan can't hurt Superman either. Dr. Manhattan may not be able to perceive Superman using his superspeed or explode him. That essentially leaves us at.... who knows what would happen in a fight.

I've seen no evidence that Doctor Manhattan can't be knocked-out. Also, it is correct that Superman's resisted transmutation attacks before, so yeah, it's questionable at best if Doctor Manhattan could harm Superman there. Manhattan's shown nothing to indicate he could hurt Superman through physical force or regular energy attacks. And I know YOU didn't bring it up(but I might as well cover it), but a common argument people jump to is Manhattan just vaporizes Superman. Based on Manhattan vaporizing a normal human being via unknown means(unknown if it was heat-base, if it was an actual disintegration attack, ect). Superman's taken so many disintegration and disruption attacks that it's ridiculous to think Manhattan could even come close to harming Superman based solely on killing Rorschach.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Durability/Molecular-Atomic%20Disintegrate-Disrupt%20Attacks/

So no, Manhattan ain't disintegrating Superman. And if he killed Rorschach via heat? Yeah, I don't think Manhattan's gonna even singe Superman.

@nickzambuto said:

IIRC, Dr. M couldn't even do anything about the Soviet's nukes, so he's hardly as great as people say he is.

You recall somewhat correctly. He could stop Soviet nukes, but not all of them. It was calculated that there were so many, even with what he could stop America would still be wiped off the map. That was the only actual defense either country had during the Cold War for nuclear war. If it did happen, either country would launch an immediate counter-attack, and it was going to end with both countries destroyed, hence "Mutually Assured Destruction." How the F*CK we survived the Cold War, I do not know, especially when you find-out about all the near launches that happened from things like a training simulation being mistakenly uploaded to the main computers and initially thought of as an attack, or even a BEAR being curious against a Military base's fence, and it being initially thought the Soviets were attacking, along with a whole buncha other things. Yeah, WATCHMEN barely covered the feeling of what it must have been like during the height of the Cold War. And we shouldn't even feel safe today. It wouldn't take much for Russia to reaim their nuclear arsenal at us, and I've read that our relationship with them is even worse today than our relationship with the U.S.S.R. during the Cold War. And we don't even have Duck-&-Cover to give us a false sense of safety. But I digress.

@Dextersinister said:

@XMen1963 said:

Dr. Manhattan should be banned from battle threads.

Alan Moore was going to use Captain Atom in the Watchmen but wasn't allowed. Dr.Manhattan the same character as Atom but with a different name he has performed all his feats at one time or another so it's best to just think of the DR as Atom but without the need for a suit.

The Captain Atom that Manhattan is based off is a lot different than the one of Post-CRISIS continuity, and that's not even factoring in that DC's Captain Atom has far superior feats to anything Manhattan has done, and is proven to be more powerful.

#17 Posted by Dextersinister (6355 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister said:

@XMen1963 said:

Dr. Manhattan should be banned from battle threads.

Alan Moore was going to use Captain Atom in the Watchmen but wasn't allowed. Dr.Manhattan the same character as Atom but with a different name he has performed all his feats at one time or another so it's best to just think of the DR as Atom but without the need for a suit.

The Captain Atom that Manhattan is based off is a lot different than the one of Post-CRISIS continuity, and that's not even factoring in that DC's Captain Atom has far superior feats to anything Manhattan has done, and is proven to be more powerful.

Then wouldn't it make sense to describe Manhattan's power level as effectively pre-crisis Captain Atom so we have measurement of who he can and can't beat. Manhattan otherwise is effectively in his own bubble universe with no one to threaten him and show what he can and can't take (although realistically you would have people lined up to throw themselves into that chamber at a shot of being like him despite the risk).

#18 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delta1938 said:

What has Doctor Manhattan ever DONE for people to think he could win this fight? Back it up people, don't just say "Manhattan OWNZ!!!!" Doctor Manhattan didn't do sh!t to prove he could beat Superman.

Well, not needing a body to survive or even function is a pretty damn big advantage.

#19 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister said:

@Dextersinister said:

@XMen1963 said:

Dr. Manhattan should be banned from battle threads.

Alan Moore was going to use Captain Atom in the Watchmen but wasn't allowed. Dr.Manhattan the same character as Atom but with a different name he has performed all his feats at one time or another so it's best to just think of the DR as Atom but without the need for a suit.

The Captain Atom that Manhattan is based off is a lot different than the one of Post-CRISIS continuity, and that's not even factoring in that DC's Captain Atom has far superior feats to anything Manhattan has done, and is proven to be more powerful.

Then wouldn't it make sense to describe Manhattan's power level as effectively pre-crisis Captain Atom so we have measurement of who he can and can't beat. Manhattan otherwise is effectively in his own bubble universe with no one to threaten him and show what he can and can't take (although realistically you would have people lined up to throw themselves into that chamber at a shot of being like him despite the risk).

Actually I wasn't talking about Manhattan's actual power level, but the fact that he was more like Pre-CRISIS Captain Atom than Post-CRISIS, both in origin and what I know of PC Atom's powerset, not necessarily level of power.@AtPhantom said:

@Delta1938 said:

What has Doctor Manhattan ever DONE for people to think he could win this fight? Back it up people, don't just say "Manhattan OWNZ!!!!" Doctor Manhattan didn't do sh!t to prove he could beat Superman.

Well, not needing a body to survive or even function is a pretty damn big advantage.

If we're talking a fight to the death, then yeah. But Cyborg-Superman has the same not needing a body/rebuilding yourself as Manhattan, and yet Superman's beaten him at least 3-4 times.

#20 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delta1938 said:

If we're talking a fight to the death, then yeah. But Cyborg-Superman has the same not needing a body/rebuilding yourself as Manhattan, and yet Superman's beaten him at least 3-4 times.

Manhattan and Cyborg are completely incomparable. CS, for the most part, does need his body. It's just that destroying his body is generally a bitch and a half. Manhattan is literally 'LOL you destroyed my body? Here, I'll make 10 more. Go wild."

CS doesn't need a body to survive, but he needs one to function. Manhattan doesn't even need that. His body is just a puppet with him pulling the strings.

#21 Posted by Delta1938 (480 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Delta1938 said:

If we're talking a fight to the death, then yeah. But Cyborg-Superman has the same not needing a body/rebuilding yourself as Manhattan, and yet Superman's beaten him at least 3-4 times.

Manhattan and Cyborg are completely incomparable. CS, for the most part, does need his body. It's just that destroying his body is generally a bitch and a half. Manhattan is literally 'LOL you destroyed my body? Here, I'll make 10 more. Go wild."

CS doesn't need a body to survive, but he needs one to function. Manhattan doesn't even need that. His body is just a puppet with him pulling the strings.

Both can survive without bodies, both can recreate their bodies. Fail. And you're saying Manhattan doesn't need a body to function? Prove it. Don't recall ANYTHING along those lines in WATCHMEN.

#22 Posted by Dextersinister (6355 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Delta1938 said:

If we're talking a fight to the death, then yeah. But Cyborg-Superman has the same not needing a body/rebuilding yourself as Manhattan, and yet Superman's beaten him at least 3-4 times.

Manhattan and Cyborg are completely incomparable. CS, for the most part, does need his body. It's just that destroying his body is generally a bitch and a half. Manhattan is literally 'LOL you destroyed my body? Here, I'll make 10 more. Go wild."

CS doesn't need a body to survive, but he needs one to function. Manhattan doesn't even need that. His body is just a puppet with him pulling the strings.

To be fair the only showing of anyone attacking him was with practically the same thing that made him. There is a good chance that the incredible levels of energy given or taken away with Superman's heat ray or cold breath could do horrible things to him but with Manhattan it's all just assumptions.

#23 Posted by Immortal777 (7681 posts) - - Show Bio

There sure is a lot of Imagination and speculation in this thread.

#24 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@Delta1938 said:

Both can survive without bodies, both can recreate their bodies. Fail.

You're generalizing to the point of absurdity. Yes, both can recreate their bodies. that doesn't mean they're freaking carbon copies of each other, nor does it mean what works on one can work on the other. ABC logic does not work in battles.

@Delta1938 said:

And you're saying Manhattan doesn't need a body to function? Prove it. Don't recall ANYTHING along those lines in WATCHMEN.

I don't have scans at hand right now, but off the top of my mind I recall his comment to Veidt that went something like "recreating my body was the trick I ever learned. Did you think that would stop me?"

#25 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

And you're saying Manhattan doesn't need a body to function? Prove it. Don't recall ANYTHING along those lines in WATCHMEN.

I don't have scans at hand right now, but off the top of my mind I recall his comment to Veidt that went something like "recreating my body was the trick I ever learned. Did you think that would stop me?"

Moderator
#26 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@AtPhantom said:

@Delta1938 said:

Both can survive without bodies, both can recreate their bodies. Fail.

You're generalizing to the point of absurdity. Yes, both can recreate their bodies. that doesn't mean they're freaking carbon copies of each other, nor does it mean what works on one can work on the other. ABC logic does not work in battles.

@Delta1938 said:

And you're saying Manhattan doesn't need a body to function? Prove it. Don't recall ANYTHING along those lines in WATCHMEN.

I don't have scans at hand right now, but off the top of my mind I recall his comment to Veidt that went something like "recreating my body was the trick I ever learned. Did you think that would stop me?"

#27 Posted by Nefarious (21309 posts) - - Show Bio

This is spite against Superman.

#28 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@AtPhantom said:

And you're saying Manhattan doesn't need a body to function? Prove it. Don't recall ANYTHING along those lines in WATCHMEN.

I don't have scans at hand right now, but off the top of my mind I recall his comment to Veidt that went something like "recreating my body was the trick I ever learned. Did you think that would stop me?"

You posted while I was cropping. Sadness.

#29 Posted by Bo88gdan (4415 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr Manhattan Stomps Superman 

#30 Posted by TDK_1997 (14988 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr. Manhattan.

#31 Posted by JonSmith (4000 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright, let's try and break this down, shall we? Please note beforehand, I have very little idea what I'm talking about and I'm going solely off the little knowledge I have of both characters.

Superman's powers are gained from his Kryptonian genetics. These cells allow him to absorb yellow sun radiation and convert it into his many abilities. Thus, his abilities are genetic in nature, meaning there is no mystical enforcement behind them. Earlier in this thread, someone stated he's resisted molecular disintegration. How would that work exactly? Rather simply: The bonds holding his molecules together are made of stronger stuff than ours. Regardless, the ultimate point here is that he IS still made of atoms.

Dr. Manhattan's general modus operandi is disintegration of said molecules, in a sense. How does he do it? Judging from the way he makes them explode, rather than simply ceasing to exist, it's safe to assume he simply makes their molecules stop holding each other to go, or perhaps converts their blood into a combustible gas, hence the flash when they explode. Due to Superman's more dense molecular adhesion, this method may not work. But Manhattan has other advantages. Mainly, his lack of form. As was said earlier, his body is just a puppet with him pulling the strings. He can make as many as he likes, they can be destroyed in any way imaginable, and he will still reappear, unharmed, and unimpressed. Superman cannot harm him. Period. No if's, and's, or buts about it, there is literally NOTHING Superman can do against Manhattan that will even make him blink, much less harm or kill him. Manhattan on the other hand, can turn air into gold, or bullets into mercury, etc. Thus the solution to defeat Superman is an absurdly simple one: Turn the ground he stands on, the air he breathes into Kryptonite. Superman is poisoned from the outside, by the very air he breathes, by the ground he stands on. No way to defend himself, Superman is terminated.

Is that a sufficiently thought out judgement of this battle, given that I have very little idea what or who I'm talking about?

#32 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith said:

Is that a sufficiently thought out judgement of this battle, given that I have very little idea what or who I'm talking about?

No. Terrible post. At no point did you say "Dr. Manhattan wins! Effortless curbstomp!".

0/10

#33 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@JonSmith: Manhattan has never demonstrated the ability to turn air into kryptonite. Nor has he demonstrated the ability to turn air into gold or bullets into mercury, barring one remark from Eddie Blake. He turned air into water once; and that was about it. His transmutation abilities were hardly showcased at a level where assuming he can do so is a valid point to raise. Also, kryptonite does not even exist in his universe; how is he supposed to create something he has never even heard of before?

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#34 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@JonSmith: Manhattan has never demonstrated the ability to turn air into kryptonite. Nor has he demonstrated the ability to turn air into gold or bullets into mercury, barring one remark from Eddie Blake. He turned air into water once; and that was about it. His transmutation abilities were hardly showcased at a level where assuming he can do so is a valid point to raise. Also, kryptonite does not even exist in his universe; how is he supposed to create something he has never even heard of before?

I don't see why he couldn't, he threatens to turn Veidt's place into glass. In fact, I think he says that on the page just before the one in which his intrinsic field is subtracted.

#35 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy: Creating water and glass are low-level feats; creating things with more complex atomic structures like kryptonite is something Manhattan has never displayed the ability to do. And again, how is he going to create something he does not know exists?

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#36 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: @Baldy: Thanks for the assist.

#37 Posted by Mercy_ (92871 posts) - - Show Bio
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